Botz Posted February 8, 2011 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 76 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 4,492 Content Per Day: 0.61 Reputation: 191 Days Won: 18 Joined: 03/29/2004 Status: Offline Share Posted February 8, 2011 Who is jesus? well since i can't recall ever meeting Him i really don't know. 24But Thomas, one of the twelve, called Didymus, was not with them when Jesus came. 25So the other disciples were saying to him, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enoob57 Posted February 8, 2011 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 35 Topic Count: 100 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 41,390 Content Per Day: 8.00 Reputation: 21,563 Days Won: 76 Joined: 03/13/2010 Status: Online Birthday: 07/27/1957 Share Posted February 8, 2011 Right. That's a simple enough answer. So, this is how it works: Nonbelievers are essentially not going to find any of the answers they're looking for outside of the Bible. They have to put their guards down, and then take a leap of faith. It would be one's heart, not their mind, that ultimately leads them to the Bible, correct? Oh absolutely not .... He tells us from long ago to come and reason with Him Isa 1:18-20 18 "Come now, and let us reason together," Says the Lord, "Though your sins are like scarlet, They shall be as white as snow; Though they are red like crimson, They shall be as wool. 19 If you are willing and obedient, You shall eat the good of the land; 20 But if you refuse and rebel, You shall be devoured by the sword"; For the mouth of the Lord has spoken. NKJV all kingdoms of the world have fallen due to the ignoring of this simple truth... The principle of life is knowing what God wants and then doing it... All peoples practice this in one way or another by refraining from excesses that we know will harm us. Yet we see those who do not reason as to refrain from excesses die by them... Our country is now at this point by immorality- it has destroyed our children and we are made weak just as Rome... our fall is not a matter of if but when! The Christian, unlike any other people of existence, knows of life continuing "by The Word God" we wait on Him to bring us into that life just like He did in this one we are now in! 808 the greatest blind spot you have is yourself but (are you not just like the rest of us?) and have found yourself in a place of endless choices and the surety that bad choices lead to suffering and harm and good choices to a more preferred life? The greatest reasoning of all is what does God ask from us that causes us harm? If you are seeking with all of your heart you will find the answer is nothing- except those who reject the very thought of Him... They try to do all they can to harm us... ever wonder why? All that God ask is to Love Him and others and not to the things that lead to death but do the things that lead to life... Oh yes 808 He wants to use your mind to find Him and because He is God- He in His prefect wisdom has allowed only one way His Word empowered by His Spirit and the complete cooperation of yourself in seeking Him in that Word... Oh it is of the same substance that spoke the universe into being.... This is the witness of John a man that was with Him the three years of public work that He did: John 1:1-5 1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made. 4 In Him was life, and the life was the light of men. 5 And the light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it. NKJV This is a witness of a man who was in a boat and thought they were going to die Matt 8:23-27 23 Now when He got into a boat, His disciples followed Him. 24 And suddenly a great tempest arose on the sea, so that the boat was covered with the waves. But He was asleep. 25 Then His disciples came to Him and awoke Him, saying, "Lord, save us! We are perishing!" 26 But He said to them, "Why are you fearful, O you of little faith?" Then He arose and rebuked the winds and the sea, and there was a great calm. 27 So the men marveled, saying, "Who can this be, that even the winds and the sea obey Him?" NKJV This is the witness of a man who believed this because of the life He observed on a daily basis John 1:14-18 14 And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth. 15 John bore witness of Him and cried out, saying, "This was He of whom I said, 'He who comes after me is preferred before me, for He was before me.'" 16 And of His fullness we have all received, and grace for grace. 17 For the law was given through Moses, but grace and truth came through Jesus Christ. 18 No one has seen God at any time. The only begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, He has declared Him. NKJV This is the witness of a man who saw Jesus crucified and was dead and rose from the grave and ascended into the Heaven out of their sight to The Father... 1 John 1:1-4 1 That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, concerning the Word of life Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
808state Posted February 8, 2011 Group: Nonbeliever Followers: 0 Topic Count: 1 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 133 Content Per Day: 0.03 Reputation: 1 Days Won: 1 Joined: 01/19/2011 Status: Offline Share Posted February 8, 2011 Oh absolutely not .... He tells us from long ago to come and reason with Him Yeah, I seem to be getting mixed reviews on that one... Isa 1:18-20 18 "Come now, and let us reason together," Says the Lord, "Though your sins are like scarlet, They shall be as white as snow; Though they are red like crimson, They shall be as wool. 19 If you are willing and obedient, You shall eat the good of the land; 20 But if you refuse and rebel, You shall be devoured by the sword"; For the mouth of the Lord has spoken. NKJV So, can logic allow us to discover God? I would imagine that God created logic so the answer would be yes? all kingdoms of the world have fallen due to the ignoring of this simple truth... The principle of life is knowing what God wants and then doing it... All peoples practice this in one way or another by refraining from excesses that we know will harm us. Yet we see those who do not reason as to refrain from excesses die by them... I would agree that people should stay away from doing anything in excess, but one doesn't have to be a Christian to realize this, right? Our country is now at this point by immorality- it has destroyed our children and we are made weak just as Rome... our fall is not a matter of if but when! The Christian, unlike any other people of existence, knows of life continuing "by The Word God" we wait on Him to bring us into that life just like He did in this one we are now in! Now, I've heard a few complaints about America being in a pretty bad place as a society, but how is it any worse than at any other point in it's history? We were always far from perfect. 808 the greatest blind spot you have is yourself but (are you not just like the rest of us?) and have found yourself in a place of endless choices and the surety that bad choices lead to suffering and harm and good choices to a more preferred life? The greatest reasoning of all is what does God ask from us that causes us harm? If you are seeking with all of your heart you will find the answer is nothing- except those who reject the very thought of Him... They try to do all they can to harm us... ever wonder why? All that God ask is to Love Him and others and not to the things that lead to death but do the things that lead to life... Oh yes 808 He wants to use your mind to find Him and because He is God- He in His prefect wisdom has allowed only one way His Word empowered by His Spirit and the complete cooperation of yourself in seeking Him in that Word... Oh it is of the same substance that spoke the universe into being.... If I'm being honest, there's a lot written in the Bible that has me raising an eyebrow at times, and that's not something I can very easily ignore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Botz Posted February 9, 2011 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 76 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 4,492 Content Per Day: 0.61 Reputation: 191 Days Won: 18 Joined: 03/29/2004 Status: Offline Share Posted February 9, 2011 808 the greatest blind spot you have is yourself but (are you not just like the rest of us?) and have found yourself in a place of endless choices and the surety that bad choices lead to suffering and harm and good choices to a more preferred life? The greatest reasoning of all is what does God ask from us that causes us harm? If you are seeking with all of your heart you will find the answer is nothing- except those who reject the very thought of Him... They try to do all they can to harm us... ever wonder why? All that God ask is to Love Him and others and not to the things that lead to death but do the things that lead to life... Oh yes 808 He wants to use your mind to find Him and because He is God- He in His prefect wisdom has allowed only one way His Word empowered by His Spirit and the complete cooperation of yourself in seeking Him in that Word... Oh it is of the same substance that spoke the universe into being.... If I'm being honest, there's a lot written in the Bible that has me raising an eyebrow at times, and that's not something I can very easily ignore. Hi 808, I think for all of us Believers there are things in Scripture that have us raising more than an eyebrow sometimes...if we are honest too, but the difference is that because we trust G-d we see that despite some of the things that are hard to understand from our view point, He is not an ogre and is not an elaborate con-artist who wants to impose His will on our lives just to mess with us, but demonstrates the extent of His love for us by living amongst us, dying at our hands, and showing us that death is not the end, and that the power of sin and death has been broken. When we finally give up trying to rationalise G-d, and come to a place where we reach out and trust Him, everything else fits into place...and He affirms the relationship through the gift of the Holy Spirit. Doesn't mean we won't still question things or try and reason things out...but it means our way of thinking undergoes a paradigm shift because we have become new creations. Sometimes a person comes to faith just from hearing the Gospel that he can have his sins forgiven and eternal life if he simply takes Jesus at His word. For others they might take years weighing things up, arguing, debating, discussing and looking at how their Christian friends live their lives etc etc and finally come to faith themselves....both are legitimate, neither is better than the other...the result is the same....but there is never a guarantee that when a person hears the Gospel and rejects it, they won't get hardened by sin...today is always the opportunity for salvation, because who knows what will occur tomorrow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enoob57 Posted February 9, 2011 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 35 Topic Count: 100 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 41,390 Content Per Day: 8.00 Reputation: 21,563 Days Won: 76 Joined: 03/13/2010 Status: Online Birthday: 07/27/1957 Share Posted February 9, 2011 Oh absolutely not .... He tells us from long ago to come and reason with Him Yeah, I seem to be getting mixed reviews on that one... Isa 1:18-20 18 "Come now, and let us reason together," Says the Lord, "Though your sins are like scarlet, They shall be as white as snow; Though they are red like crimson, They shall be as wool. 19 If you are willing and obedient, You shall eat the good of the land; 20 But if you refuse and rebel, You shall be devoured by the sword"; For the mouth of the Lord has spoken. NKJV So, can logic allow us to discover God? I would imagine that God created logic so the answer would be yes? The mixed reviews... I understand that from One Source, One Teacher, One Truth we should arrive at One Conclussion... However My learning thus far from The One Source (that which God claims to be His Word) is thus: Sin is simply the word or deed that claims to be of God and is not! Known as Lies, and to exhaust the subject you would have to exhaust the truth and so as portioned in God's explanation of Himself is that of Truth and that He is also infinite these facts together make exhaustion of topic impossible!Therefore in reasoning also precept upon precept yet if we build or accept something as sourced in God and it is not we have error and our conclusions will be flawed in the perfect logic of eterrnities... because knowledge is present still yet in the undiscovered- logic should dictate that design itself is the witness that knowledge is required in the formation of the undiscovered... ID is greatly disputed but pure logic, that of mathematics, will accept no other variable but that of an infinite, unsourced, intelligent, purposed Being as His Word explains Father, Son and Holy Spirit who in the beginning reasoned together that which we are presently experiencing...Life! So your complaint of mixed reviews is perfectly answered in the presence of lies for as satan encounters Truth (that which is essenced in God) He perverts with lies so cleverly performed that only God Himself may determine the validity of what is presented as truth or lie... so it is with all of us who have resigned our lives to His in order to see truth and act upon it... it is this where the children fail: for if only God can separate lies from truth then only the Holy Spirit with the regenerated heart given by God in full quietness of obedience can hear and see the truth as He teaches.... The lies have so permeated our world that God has said we must completely renew our minds with that which He has written in His Word! Such renewing can only be accomplished If we have laid before all of what we are as worthless and in pure child like response, agreed upon completely in our being, that we are helpless in our own abilities unless He performs it it will not happen. This is the a familiar place to all who have called out to The Son of God to save us from our own lies that has made up what we are and misconceptions based on those lies that keep us there in those lies... The Bible calls this place of lies darkness for what value is there really in that which has no power to continue and ends only in death? I guess the best way to see what I speak of is the example our Lord has given us in creation- that of the cave animals that live their entire lives in darkness- you can bring them out into the light but to them it is the same as the darkness for they cannot see any longer! So it is in this world in Spiritual matters... and the children some have more light than others due to their willingness to recieve that which The Holy Spirit whispers to an intense seeker of God willing to listen... it literally takes the whole of your (new birth being) in applying all strength, mind, heart, and will to the precepts of God and the eternal outcomes as though they are already come... thus it is never with a raised eyebrow but with a broken spirit and contrite heart He places His eternal truths... perfect logic dictates that worth keeping is kept apart from that which is being thrown away! all kingdoms of the world have fallen due to the ignoring of this simple truth... The principle of life is knowing what God wants and then doing it... All peoples practice this in one way or another by refraining from excesses that we know will harm us. Yet we see those who do not reason as to refrain from excesses die by them... I would agree that people should stay away from doing anything in excess, but one doesn't have to be a Christian to realize this, right? Our country is now at this point by immorality- it has destroyed our children and we are made weak just as Rome... our fall is not a matter of if but when! The Christian, unlike any other people of existence, knows of life continuing "by The Word God" we wait on Him to bring us into that life just like He did in this one we are now in! Now, I've heard a few complaints about America being in a pretty bad place as a society, but how is it any worse than at any other point in it's history? We were always far from perfect. 808 the greatest blind spot you have is yourself but (are you not just like the rest of us?) and have found yourself in a place of endless choices and the surety that bad choices lead to suffering and harm and good choices to a more preferred life? The greatest reasoning of all is what does God ask from us that causes us harm? If you are seeking with all of your heart you will find the answer is nothing- except those who reject the very thought of Him... They try to do all they can to harm us... ever wonder why? All that God ask is to Love Him and others and not to the things that lead to death but do the things that lead to life... Oh yes 808 He wants to use your mind to find Him and because He is God- He in His prefect wisdom has allowed only one way His Word empowered by His Spirit and the complete cooperation of yourself in seeking Him in that Word... Oh it is of the same substance that spoke the universe into being.... If I'm being honest, there's a lot written in the Bible that has me raising an eyebrow at times, and that's not something I can very easily ignore. The ones I found to be the most blind are those who think that they see... those who think they know... for they no longer seek but wait in themselves to teach others that there is no god! Do you really, in your reason and logic , tainted by false understandings, believe your own abilities is dependable enough for you to gamble your eternity on? Here is a logic key to God's Word: In God is no lies only truth... Heb 6:13-18 13 For when God made a promise to Abraham, because He could swear by no one greater, He swore by Himself, 14 saying, "Surely blessing I will bless you, and multiplying I will multiply you." 15 And so, after he had patiently endured, he obtained the promise. 16 For men indeed swear by the greater, and an oath for confirmation is for them an end of all dispute. 17 Thus God, determining to show more abundantly to the heirs of promise the immutability of His counsel, confirmed it by an oath, 18 that by two immutable things, in which it is impossible for God to lie, we might have strong consolation, who have fled for refuge to lay hold of the hope set before us. NKJV To find truth one must find God... Ps 14:2-3 2 The Lord looks down from heaven upon the children of men, To see if there are any who understand, who seek God. 3 They have all turned aside, They have together become corrupt; There is none who does good, No, not one. NKJV Jer 29:11-14 11 For I know the thoughts that I think toward you, says the Lord, thoughts of peace and not of evil, to give you a future and a hope. 12 Then you will call upon Me and go and pray to Me, and I will listen to you. 13 And you will seek Me and find Me, when you search for Me with all your heart. NKJV Matt 7:7-12 7 "Ask, and it will be given to you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you. 8 For everyone who asks receives, and he who seeks finds, and to him who knocks it will be opened. 9 Or what man is there among you who, if his son asks for bread, will give him a stone? 10 Or if he asks for a fish, will he give him a serpent? 11 If you then, being evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father who is in heaven give good things to those who ask Him! NKJV God is discoverable in only three ways His Son, His written Word, His Spirit... Jesus is explained as the Word that became flesh and dwelt among us Jn. 1 all The disciples saw Jesus return to The Father leaving only their witness now The New Testament and The Holy Spirit came at Pentecost. The Son has returned to The Father leaving that which is discoverable His written Word, His Spirit... The Son said only through Him one may gain access to eternal life and true freedom... 1 John 5:9-13 9 If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater; for this is the witness of God which He has testified of His Son. 10 He who believes in the Son of God has the witness in himself; he who does not believe God has made Him a liar, because he has not believed the testimony that God has given of His Son. 11 And this is the testimony: that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son. 12 He who has the Son has life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have life. 13 These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life, and that you may continue to believe in the name of the Son of God. NKJV John 8:31-32 31 Then Jesus said to those Jews who believed Him, "If you abide in My word, you are My disciples indeed. 32 And you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free." NKJV Loved one I sense in my spirit the intense desire of my family around you and God Himself that you come to a saving knowledge of Jesus Christ- how sad for you to hang on to yourself as a reason to reject God.... we who are begging God for your life have all rejected our own lives and understandings to gain New Life in Him and now are in the process of renewing our minds in eternal matters of truth and love... We are waiting for you to come into the light even as we are in the light.... Love Steven Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 shiloh357, on 06 February 2011 - 02:47 PM, said: Okay, so what do you mean that they "fleshed" out Jesus? I'm not saying they did for sure, but it does seem to be a possibility. Considering there is very little on Jesus outside of the Bible, I don't believe we can know for sure what is and isn't true about Jesus. For all I know, the writers of the Bible could have used artistic license with his story, and added parts that didn't actually happen. So, then why would they put their lives on the line for a story they made up and they knew was a basically a fabrication??? Why would they on the one hand, after Jesus' crucifixion, paralyzed with fear dreading the possibility that they were going to be hunted down and killed just like Jesus and then suddenly being willing to bodly face imprisonment, torture, death, etc. for a lie they perpetrated??? There has to be a more logical explanation for the radical change. Furthermore, if they were making stories up, how come no one, among their contemporaries were able to debunk or refute their claims? Jesus was pretty popular among the regular people and was a very public figure. It would be hard to make up a story that could not debunked by other witnesses who knew enough to contradict them. Fair enough. But then I have to ask the question, were his teachings original? Certainly a liar or a "lunatic" (and I'm not saying he was entirely either) would be able to rehash teachings that they learnt from others. The problem is that they don't. When do lunatics or liars do that??? Lunatics make inane babblings and nonsensical statements that have no rational basis. Liars are just that. They are liars. Jesus emphasied honesty and truth. Liars don't do that. Truth is inimical to their character. I understand that you are very confident in your beliefs, but I'm not. As far as I know, tell me if I'm wrong, there is about as much evidence for the supernatural aspects of Jesus as there is for the supernatural aspects of Mohammed. The resurrection of Jesus is historical fact. Many have tried for years to debunk the resurrection of Jesus, but it always ends up leading to the resurrection. If Jesus is raised from the dead as He promised He would be, believing in the miracles like the feeding of the 5,000 is not problematic at all. Jesus and the Greek gods are, for me, in the same boat as far as their supernatural characteristics go. I was simply stating what I personally believe. I don't see how I was over-generalizing at all. That assertion that they are in the same boat only demonstrates that you have not done any really serious comparison. The available data simply does not support that assertion. Why believe something that is demonstratably false? Why believe something just to believe it? Matthitjah, on 06 February 2011 - 10:16 PM, said: I think I asked this prior, but to what end? Do men willingly leave their lives or die for a scoundrel? Well, yes, they do. I mean, people have lost their lives for other religions in the past, not just Christianity. All it takes is a belief in what they're fighting for. The original disciples were not dying for a religion or a faith. They were dying for their eyewitness testimony that Jesus was alive. For 40 days after His resurrection, They saw Him, ate with Him, talked to Him, touched Him, and saw Him taken bodily into heaven. They were not dying for a "belief" or a "religion." They were dying for what they saw, touched and experienced first hand, and their enemies were helpless to refute them. All they could do is persecute them in order to get them to cease preaching that Jesus was alive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enoob57 Posted February 10, 2011 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 35 Topic Count: 100 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 41,390 Content Per Day: 8.00 Reputation: 21,563 Days Won: 76 Joined: 03/13/2010 Status: Online Birthday: 07/27/1957 Share Posted February 10, 2011 The resurrection of Jesus is historical fact. Many have tried for years to debunk the resurrection of Jesus, but it always ends up leading to the resurrection. If Jesus is raised from the dead as He promised He would be, believing in the miracles like the feeding of the 5,000 is not problematic at all. Based on what evidence? The exact same common sense you hopefully use everyday! These written letters were by men who died for their belief in Christ; they were taught by Him that if they lie (sin) that was of no part of Him and those who practiced such things were not of Him! Now they loved Him enough to die for His Name and testimony for what they saw Him do and you doubt the voracity of their claim as being true? You might consider this carefully! Love Steven Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enoob57 Posted February 10, 2011 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 35 Topic Count: 100 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 41,390 Content Per Day: 8.00 Reputation: 21,563 Days Won: 76 Joined: 03/13/2010 Status: Online Birthday: 07/27/1957 Share Posted February 10, 2011 I guess the eyewitness account in the Bible best talks about who He was. There weren't too many journalists in those days, you might try here: http://users.binary....carp/jesus.html Have you pondered on any of the other questions? Thank you for the link. Much appreciated. As for the other questions, I dunno, there have been other religions that have lasted a pretty long time and that were presumably thanks to one man (For example: Buddhism and Islam). I figure, at the end of the day, in order to believe all of the supernatural aspects of Jesus's story, one would first have to have faith in the Bible. I don't have faith in the Bible, so I don't believe any of the supernatural aspects of his story. It was His Person that mesmerized! We have never experienced a man who never sinned! Well not physically; Spiritually I am very intimate with Him- in fact I am growing into His Person in such a way I do not need the physical evidence at all; the Spiritual is sufficient! Even so now that is true I see His unseen hand in everything there is corporeal speaking! Imagine a Heart that could not be made to do anything other than Love- ever met one of those? Imagine a Man who could speak so that your heart would burn inside with the Words that woven in His speech, Imagine a Man you saw surrounded by huge crowds wanting from Him things and you cried out from your Heart in need of Him and He would turn with a gaze that would stupefy your being that He even heard you over the roar and then to realize He was giving you His full attention- Without the limitations of the body that is what He is doing right now in The Person of The Holy Spirit... What amazes me is the demand for physical proof- tangible, sensory, corporeal yet everyone knows and is witness to the dead bodies that once held life are no longer the things we want and bury them? How small and simple the truth that if life is the substance of what we want in others not the bodies why search for it among the dead? Life is a Spiritual entity not reliant upon the corporeal... you say I can't prove that and I say I can in Christ who lives as witness in The Person of The Holy Spirit within me... you, you, you can't prove it and I will say I do not have to for it is not my Spiritual life that is in jeopardy! Love Steven Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
808state Posted February 11, 2011 Group: Nonbeliever Followers: 0 Topic Count: 1 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 133 Content Per Day: 0.03 Reputation: 1 Days Won: 1 Joined: 01/19/2011 Status: Offline Share Posted February 11, 2011 Hi 808, I think for all of us Believers there are things in Scripture that have us raising more than an eyebrow sometimes...if we are honest too, but the difference is that because we trust G-d we see that despite some of the things that are hard to understand from our view point, He is not an ogre and is not an elaborate con-artist who wants to impose His will on our lives just to mess with us, but demonstrates the extent of His love for us by living amongst us, dying at our hands, and showing us that death is not the end, and that the power of sin and death has been broken. When we finally give up trying to rationalise G-d, and come to a place where we reach out and trust Him, everything else fits into place...and He affirms the relationship through the gift of the Holy Spirit. Doesn't mean we won't still question things or try and reason things out...but it means our way of thinking undergoes a paradigm shift because we have become new creations. Sometimes a person comes to faith just from hearing the Gospel that he can have his sins forgiven and eternal life if he simply takes Jesus at His word. For others they might take years weighing things up, arguing, debating, discussing and looking at how their Christian friends live their lives etc etc and finally come to faith themselves....both are legitimate, neither is better than the other...the result is the same....but there is never a guarantee that when a person hears the Gospel and rejects it, they won't get hardened by sin...today is always the opportunity for salvation, because who knows what will occur tomorrow. You can choose to follow God, choose to trust that that his logic is limitless and ours is limited, and go with it. Which seems to be what you're doing. My personal issue with this is that the Biblical God gives me about as much feeling as another God, y'know? I don't see why I should choose Christianity over any other theistic religion. Because, you're right, I could choose Christianity (and have in the past, mind you), and just believe any doubts I have are simply due to my ignorance, but I could do that with any religion. I mean, the Bible is meant for humans to read. God wanted humans to understand what he was saying so why start using logic that's above our reasoning? Why not translate it in a way that we could understand? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
808state Posted February 11, 2011 Group: Nonbeliever Followers: 0 Topic Count: 1 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 133 Content Per Day: 0.03 Reputation: 1 Days Won: 1 Joined: 01/19/2011 Status: Offline Share Posted February 11, 2011 The mixed reviews... I understand that from One Source, One Teacher, One Truth we should arrive at One Conclussion... However My learning thus far from The One Source (that which God claims to be His Word) is thus: Sin is simply the word or deed that claims to be of God and is not! Known as Lies, and to exhaust the subject you would have to exhaust the truth and so as portioned in God's explanation of Himself is that of Truth and that He is also infinite these facts together make exhaustion of topic impossible!Therefore in reasoning also precept upon precept yet if we build or accept something as sourced in God and it is not we have error and our conclusions will be flawed in the perfect logic of eterrnities... because knowledge is present still yet in the undiscovered- logic should dictate that design itself is the witness that knowledge is required in the formation of the undiscovered... ID is greatly disputed but pure logic, that of mathematics, will accept no other variable but that of an infinite, unsourced, intelligent, purposed Being as His Word explains Father, Son and Holy Spirit who in the beginning reasoned together that which we are presently experiencing...Life! So your complaint of mixed reviews is perfectly answered in the presence of lies for as satan encounters Truth (that which is essenced in God) He perverts with lies so cleverly performed that only God Himself may determine the validity of what is presented as truth or lie... so it is with all of us who have resigned our lives to His in order to see truth and act upon it... it is this where the children fail: for if only God can separate lies from truth then only the Holy Spirit with the regenerated heart given by God in full quietness of obedience can hear and see the truth as He teaches.... The lies have so permeated our world that God has said we must completely renew our minds with that which He has written in His Word! Such renewing can only be accomplished If we have laid before all of what we are as worthless and in pure child like response, agreed upon completely in our being, that we are helpless in our own abilities unless He performs it it will not happen. This is the a familiar place to all who have called out to The Son of God to save us from our own lies that has made up what we are and misconceptions based on those lies that keep us there in those lies... The Bible calls this place of lies darkness for what value is there really in that which has no power to continue and ends only in death? I guess the best way to see what I speak of is the example our Lord has given us in creation- that of the cave animals that live their entire lives in darkness- you can bring them out into the light but to them it is the same as the darkness for they cannot see any longer! So it is in this world in Spiritual matters... and the children some have more light than others due to their willingness to recieve that which The Holy Spirit whispers to an intense seeker of God willing to listen... it literally takes the whole of your (new birth being) in applying all strength, mind, heart, and will to the precepts of God and the eternal outcomes as though they are already come... thus it is never with a raised eyebrow but with a broken spirit and contrite heart He places His eternal truths... perfect logic dictates that worth keeping is kept apart from that which is being thrown away! One issue I've always had with the Bible is that, while reading it, it always felt like it was written and thought up by humans. It feels too convenient. It doesn't feel like it was inspired by a God of some sort, but by humans as an attempt to explain things that had yet be explained, to enforce a particular way of living, and perhaps to inspire people to move in a new direction. I can elaborate if you want. As far as the claim of intelligent design goes, I have to ask, why are so many of his designs imperfect if they were designed intelligently? The ones I found to be the most blind are those who think that they see... those who think they know... for they no longer seek but wait in themselves to teach others that there is no god! Do you really, in your reason and logic , tainted by false understandings, believe your own abilities is dependable enough for you to gamble your eternity on? I'm not here to teach anyone anything. I'm here to be taught. I do actively seek truth. I don't claim to have all the answers. But I'm not going to believe in something simply because of a threat. That's manipulation, and it shouldn't be necessary if we're talking about Truth. Loved one I sense in my spirit the intense desire of my family around you and God Himself that you come to a saving knowledge of Jesus Christ- how sad for you to hang on to yourself as a reason to reject God.... we who are begging God for your life have all rejected our own lives and understandings to gain New Life in Him and now are in the process of renewing our minds in eternal matters of truth and love... We are waiting for you to come into the light even as we are in the light.... Love Steven Well, thank you for that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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