Matthitjah Posted January 8, 2003 Group: Royal Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 1,285 Topics Per Day: 0.16 Content Count: 17,917 Content Per Day: 2.27 Reputation: 355 Days Won: 19 Joined: 10/01/2002 Status: Offline Share Posted January 8, 2003 Blindseeker, You debate openly and truly from the heart. You are a man of peace and love. This I can see. You know the spirit of these boards is Love and fellowship. I will not dispute the 7 year tribulation because I agree it won't be 7 years. Neither can anyone prove it. I only began to realize this most recently. We mayvery well be in the great tribulation thru the whole dispensation of the times of the Gentiles. Peace Dear Brother :inlove: Amen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 9, 2003 Share Posted January 9, 2003 Thank you for your gracious words Dr. Luke. Peace to you and yours, William / BlindSeeker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shadow2b Posted January 9, 2003 Share Posted January 9, 2003 Shadow2b, Good afternoon to you sir and blessings be upon you as well. Where is the Temple of G-d right now? John 19:2 Jesus answered and said to them."Destroy this Temple, and in three day's I will raise it up." Verse 21 But he was speaking of the temple of his body. Who is the body of Christ? The Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthitjah Posted January 9, 2003 Group: Royal Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 1,285 Topics Per Day: 0.16 Content Count: 17,917 Content Per Day: 2.27 Reputation: 355 Days Won: 19 Joined: 10/01/2002 Status: Offline Share Posted January 9, 2003 Shadow2b, Let's move this off of Blindseekers post. He seeks for someone to prove the 7 year tribulation. Which is impossible in my mind. We will talk about spiritual Israel on a seperate post. I will start it later this evening.Topic-Spiritual Israel.I must first go to work. I work evenings so as my children will not be under the influence of someone else's idea of the spirit .So to speak. It's bad enough they go to public school which almost was my ruin......... Blindseeker, I would like to add to Blindseekers post though that I think the A.C. tries to pervert what Christ has already done.Your thought's Blindseeker, please.I also think he is close to rising. Peace :inlove: Amen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shadow2b Posted January 11, 2003 Share Posted January 11, 2003 Thank you for your gracious words Dr. Luke. Peace to you and yours, William / BlindSeeker sorry blindseeker i didn't mean to hijack your thread , i really ask you to forgive me i guess i didn't read the topic very carefully                SHALOM                shadow2b Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 11, 2003 Share Posted January 11, 2003 Shadow2b, No problem . . . I probably really should have just kept it between Adstar and myself. Â I could have cut the post in two and sent it in a PM that way. I just thought that because so much of the end time messages hang on the "7 year Tribulation" I would submit my beliefs to the scrutiny of the brethren here. Â As you can see . . . I articulated my position. Â I was just hoping someone would have likewise taken the time to explain why they do believe in it . . . scripturally of course. Peace. William / BlindSeeker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shadow2b Posted January 11, 2003 Share Posted January 11, 2003 Shadow2b, No problem . . . I probably really should have just kept it between Adstar and myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 11, 2003 Share Posted January 11, 2003 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest inhim Posted January 11, 2003 Share Posted January 11, 2003 regarding blindseeker's original question, and all those carefully considered thoughts which others have subsequently offered, i have read them all.  i think it is admirable that you are all careful not to give offense.  i would like to offer some comments on your discussions, regarding things i think were not mentioned. 1. this is the "new covenant" that is referred to by Jesus:  jeremiah 31:31-33. 2.regarding the 7 year time of tribulation, and 'great tribulation', we know that those who receive Christ are not appointed unto wrath, 1 thess 5:9, which will be poured out upon the earth after a certain time in the final outworking of God's plan. 3. i think it is important to look to the feasts of israel, that God gave us poor simpletons in lev ch23 and notice that of the 7, 4 have been actually fulfilled by Jesus, in His life, death, burial and resurrection.  the 3 that remain are fall festivals that occur at the last harvest of the agricultural year, and they are the feast  of trumpets, the feast of atonement, and the feast of booths.  paul usually spoke in terms of these feasts throughout his letters, being a rabbi, and knowing that God had given us a depiction of his salvation plan through the feasts and sacrifices.  everything points to Jesus.  it has been edifying to many to learn about these feasts.  the feasts of trumpets, which paul refers to in 1 thess 4:13-end of chapter, is only looked for to come at some time.  there is no clear statement of when, but the concept of the catching away of those who are in Christ, whether sleeping, or alive, is clear.  Isaiah 26:19 -end of chapter appears to allude to end times, but once again, no time frame is provided. 4.  spiritual Israel in Galatians 6:16 can only refer to all those who live in a faith relationship with God, whether before the new Covenant or afterward.  there is now one covenant for all who would please God.  before this one, there was only one way also.  the just shall live by faith . 5.the differences in points of view you have expressed in understanding prophecy, boils down to the (basically) two views of eschatology.  i mention this, to clarify, so that thoughts may be organized for now under this heading, for convenience.  they are the post-millienial view, whether preterist, or partial preterist, and the newer dispensionalist view, some of which is based on understandings of the feasts. what is included in these often opposing views, is how scripture is to be interpreted, whether symbolically, or literally.  of course, as has been pointed out, two rules remain in force when understanding scripture;  let the Bible interpret itself through previously used symbolism, or lack thereof, and whether or not we take a taditional jewish method of understanding God's word, or use a more allegorical one that arose with the conversion of many greek philosophers at the advent of the early church.  these greek intellectuals applied new rules to understanding God's word that they had previously used  with their mythologies (and included sweeping world-view differences) and the use of the hebrew scripture exegesis fell by the wayside.  this IS relevant.  i hear impatient sighs.  i'm almost finished.  these two views of eschatology differ where they interpret Matthew 24.  is all of scripture prophecy fulfilled, and all we wait for is to finish evangelizing the world so the MESSIAH can return; or are there prophetic "types" yet to be fulfilled in a time such as the world has never seen?  thomas ice, tim lahaye, and john walvoord are theologians that advance a dispensational view.  gary demar, r c sproul and b b warfield are some well known theologians advancing the postmillenialist view... r c sproul has written a book called THE LAST DAYS ACCORDING TO JESUS, which is difficult to read , but very comprehensive.  debates have been held, and many publications  exist recently to address the controversy, BECAUSE everyone senses that the time is short. i'm sorry this is so long.. refer to the jewish feasts. your discussions represent common views which are not yet harmonized by the MESSIAHS return perhaps some of these authors can dispell unnecessary cloudiness.  pick one. respectfully submitted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 11, 2003 Share Posted January 11, 2003 1. this is the "new covenant" that is referred to by Jesus: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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