Adstar Posted January 7, 2003 Group: Royal Member Followers: 12 Topic Count: 75 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,399 Content Per Day: 0.43 Reputation: 1,307 Days Won: 1 Joined: 09/01/2002 Status: Offline Author Share Posted January 7, 2003 Hello Dr Luke What makes you so sure the great city is Jerusalem? Revelation 11:8 And their dead bodies will lie in the street of the great city which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified. Why not Sodom or Egypt? The verse say's the great city Spiritually is called. Why not the great city(or city's comprising those organized against G-d) of the World? Which like Sodom, Egypt, and Jerusalem will be judged on that great day.(IE, Mystery Babylon) While symbolism is used in prophesy I think you are letting it run wild here and allowing yourself to see too much symbolism? The Messiah our Lord was crucified in Jerusalem and that is where the two last prophets will be killed. The statement """where also our Lord was crucified.""" clearly shows that this is not a symbolic representation but an actual happening. All Praise The Ancient Of Days Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 7, 2003 Share Posted January 7, 2003 Jerusalem is spiritually called Sodom and Egypt BECAUSE the Jews are still in bondage and slavery to their sins and are children of disobedience (Egypt) and the religion they practice is a gross perversion of the truth (Sodom). They have no temple, no atonement, no high priest, no sacrifice for their sins . . . for they have reject the Prince of DANIEL 9:27 which cause their sacrifices and oblations to cease and made their temple desolate. No speculation . . . history and fact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adstar Posted January 7, 2003 Group: Royal Member Followers: 12 Topic Count: 75 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,399 Content Per Day: 0.43 Reputation: 1,307 Days Won: 1 Joined: 09/01/2002 Status: Offline Author Share Posted January 7, 2003 Thats it Dr Luke  No speculation . . . history and fact. End of Story. :thumb: All Praise The Ancient Of Days Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthitjah Posted January 7, 2003 Group: Royal Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 1,285 Topics Per Day: 0.16 Content Count: 17,917 Content Per Day: 2.27 Reputation: 355 Days Won: 19 Joined: 10/01/2002 Status: Offline Share Posted January 7, 2003 Brothers, Take no disrespect from my postulating. Howbeit  history and fact, as you say (true/meaning I agree in principle)? That this spiritually depraved city (Jerusalem) under bondage and ignorant of the truth, be called great? G-d gave it the greatest disrespect in 70 AD. Then why would John call it great? Beseiged on all corners and needing deliverence from our Lord. How to rectify verse 10? And those who dwell on the Earthwill rejoice over them, make merry, and send gifts to one another, because these two prophets tormented those who dwell on the Earth Now brothers in peace and Love. Please howbeit these two literal prophets torment the whole wide Earth? When they are in literal Jerusalem. It would appear in verse 7 The beast prevails over them when their testimony is finished. But in verse 11 after the final 3 1/2 day's they are ressurected. Then in verse 12 They hear the final trumpet and ascend into heaven and their enemies (plural) saw them. The same tribes,tongues, nations, and peoples who rejoiced at their death. I do not pick a fight, only debate for the sake of learning. I had to wipe out all the notions I had of end times to come to see things in a new light. I still only see dimly.We may all yet be surprised about our preconceived notions. Peace :inlove: Amen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shadow2b Posted January 7, 2003 Share Posted January 7, 2003 Shadow2b, What makes you so sure the great city is Jerusalem? Revelation 11:8 And their dead bodies will lie in the street of the great city which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified. Why not Sodom or Egypt? The verse say's the great city Spiritually is called. Why not the great city(or city's comprising those organized against G-d) of the World? Which like Sodom, Egypt, and Jerusalem will be judged on that great day.(IE, Mystery Babylon) You must rectify verse 9. Then those from the peoples, tribes, tongues, and nations will see their dead bodies three and a half days, and not allow their dead bodies to be put into the graves. So called Wise men all over the World already rejoice over the defeat of a weak apostate Church.In this sense the apostate church has already wounded the Word, not wielded it like Prophets of old. Who were given the powers ascribed in this Chapter. The 2 Witness' will be the real Church wielding the real Word at the end of the age. That is why not only the Olive Tree's but also the Lampstand's are given. Remember in Revelation 1-3 those churchs not repenting and following their former way's will have their lampstands removed. These literal men and women of the real church can be killed for the Word. They even are killed today in this present age. Are they really dead? No, they have the risen Lord to ressurect them. Amen! It seem's to me once they are ressurected then the Last Trump sounds (The literal seventh angel) verse 15. Fullfilling the wrath of G-d and the judgement of the dead.Then Saint's are rewarded and those not believing destroyed.Amen! Also note that there is no prior ID of these Witness' except the little book John swallowed in Chapter 10 . Which after he swallowed it he was told to prophecy about many peoples, nations, tongues, and kings. The only prior knowledge of the lampstands is in Zechariah 4 and Revelation 1-3. Oh the greatness of the Word. Really read it brothers and sisters. Pray over it, contemplate it. Love it for it testify's of our Lord. Peace :inlove: Amen hey thar doc---good-morning & blessings upon you---  the great city--jerusalem??--rev.11.-vs.-1--RISE AND MEASURE THE TEMPLE OF GOD,AND THE ALTER,AND THEM THAT WORSHIP THEREIN..where is the temple of GOD WHERE THE JEWS WORSHIP & OFFER ANIMAL SACRIFICES??vs.-2-- where is the court that is not measured??GENTILE=rev.2--  gr.-1484-ethnos- non-jewish a foreign tribe,by impl.-pagan,heathen, gentile nation,-people--where was jesus crucified??sodom no longer exists,it was destroyed wasn't it??  vs.2.-holy-gr.-40--hagios-from-hagos-[an awful thing], sacred,pure,religious,or  blameless,-consecrated,most holy,[one,thing.saint]--vs.-2--city-gr.4172-from the same as 4171 -- polis,polemos,pelomai--a town[prob.with walls]of greater or less size]-to bustle,warfare,a single encounter,[or a series], battle,fight,war----the pagans[antichrist??] will tread underfoot  forty and two months--- isn't this jerusalem?? rectify vs.-9--HOW??WHY?? i believe i have correctly[in another thread] identified these two witnesses as enoch & john-[the beloved,the revelator] these two prophets have NOT died as yet ,but  die ,after their testimony is finished--vss.-7-8-&- 9--  GOD-BLESS-ALL-TRUTHSEEKERS-ON-THESE- -BOARDS--                   SHALOM                   shadow2b Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shadow2b Posted January 7, 2003 Share Posted January 7, 2003 Brothers, Take no disrespect from my postulating. Howbeit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthitjah Posted January 7, 2003 Group: Royal Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 1,285 Topics Per Day: 0.16 Content Count: 17,917 Content Per Day: 2.27 Reputation: 355 Days Won: 19 Joined: 10/01/2002 Status: Offline Share Posted January 7, 2003 Shadow2b, Good afternoon to you sir and blessings be upon you as well. Where is the Temple of G-d right now? John 19:2 Jesus answered and said to them."Destroy this Temple, and in three day's I will raise it up." Verse 21 But he was speaking of the temple of his body. Who is the body of Christ? The  witness' are alluding to the true Church who wield the Word. They bear witness to the whole Earth and mankind of Jesus. My position hasn't changed. John is not measuring the literal temple but the temple of true believers in the body of Christ.The inner sanctuary(the core of true believers much like the 144,000) The outer court mustn't be measured because it is not part of the inner sanctuary. He is told leave it without don't measure it. Leave it out like the lukewarm apostate Christians of the current age. They defile and tread underfoot the outer court of Christianity with their perversion of the true faith. Why would the Angel of the Lord tell John to measure a house of desolation as described by Jesus. What is this reed like a Rod he use's to measure with? I'll give you a hint. Pr 10:13 On the lips of the discerning, wisdom is found, But a rod is for the back of him who lacks understanding Isa 11:4 But with righteousness He will judge the poor, And decide with fairness for the afflicted of the earth; And He will strike the earth with the rod of His mouth, And with the breath of His lips He will slay the wicked. Re 2:27 AND HE SHALL RULE THEM WITH A ROD OF IRON, AS THE VESSELS OF THE POTTER ARE BROKEN TO PIECES, as I also have received {authority} from My Father; Ezekial 20:37 "I will make you pass under the rod, and I will bring you into the bond of the covenant; Peace :inlove: Amen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tsth Posted January 7, 2003 Group: Royal Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 297 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 5,586 Content Per Day: 0.69 Reputation: 193 Days Won: 1 Joined: 04/09/2002 Status: Offline Share Posted January 7, 2003 This is just speculation but The two prophets could be the last two Gentile Christians. Their death and resurrection will be the end of the time of the gentiles??? Just a thought Has anyone else noticed, there were also 2 in the square in the story of the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah? Genesis 19:1 Now the two angels came to Sodom in the evening, and Lot was sitting in the gate of Sodom. When Lot saw them, he rose to meet them, and he bowed himself with his face toward the ground. 2 And he said, "Here now, my lords, please turn in to your servant's house and spend the night, and wash your feet; then you may rise early and go on your way." And they said, "No, but we will spend the night in the open square." Just wondered? Also, there was a process of degeneration of believers, that was spoken of by Abraham. Â Remember him asking about 50 left, 45, 30, etc? Â Genesis 18, also see Matt. 12:45 In His Love, Suzanne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 8, 2003 Share Posted January 8, 2003 Brothers, Take no disrespect from my postulating. Howbeit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 8, 2003 Share Posted January 8, 2003 Hello Sweet Sister Suzanne. You ask, "Has anyone else noticed, there were also 2 in the square in the story of the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah?" Good point. Â God always sends a witness of 2 or more . . . It is nice to see you here. Â Peace, BlindSeeker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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