Exaeus Posted December 1, 2011 Group: Nonbeliever Followers: 0 Topic Count: 0 Topics Per Day: 0 Content Count: 39 Content Per Day: 0.01 Reputation: 3 Days Won: 0 Joined: 11/30/2011 Status: Offline Share Posted December 1, 2011 From God. So where do you get your moral code? So you're using a set of morals that you received from God to judge God, and hence you determine that he is good? Do you see the problem here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isaiah 6:8 Posted December 1, 2011 Group: Royal Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 426 Topics Per Day: 0.07 Content Count: 3,633 Content Per Day: 0.58 Reputation: 222 Days Won: 13 Joined: 03/23/2007 Status: Offline Birthday: 08/26/1978 Author Share Posted December 1, 2011 From God. So where do you get your moral code? So you're using a set of morals that you received from God to judge God, and hence you determine that he is good? Do you see the problem here? Yes. I saw you going that direction However, please do not try to derail this thread as you managed to do with the other one, as I have stated before this thread is not about Christians and where we get our morel code. However every atheist to date has started trying to turn this thread around and make it about Christian morals. So, if you are going to post on this thread can you tell me where you get your moral code? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Exaeus Posted December 1, 2011 Group: Nonbeliever Followers: 0 Topic Count: 0 Topics Per Day: 0 Content Count: 39 Content Per Day: 0.01 Reputation: 3 Days Won: 0 Joined: 11/30/2011 Status: Offline Share Posted December 1, 2011 Yes. I saw you going that direction However, please do not try to derail this thread as you managed to do with the other one, as I have stated before this thread is not about Christians and where we get our morel code. However every atheist to date has started trying to turn this thread around and make it about Christian morals. So, if you are going to post on this thread can you tell me where you get your moral code? I guess that means it's off-topic. I'll start a new thread then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isaiah 6:8 Posted December 1, 2011 Group: Royal Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 426 Topics Per Day: 0.07 Content Count: 3,633 Content Per Day: 0.58 Reputation: 222 Days Won: 13 Joined: 03/23/2007 Status: Offline Birthday: 08/26/1978 Author Share Posted December 1, 2011 Yes. I saw you going that direction However, please do not try to derail this thread as you managed to do with the other one, as I have stated before this thread is not about Christians and where we get our morel code. However every atheist to date has started trying to turn this thread around and make it about Christian morals. So, if you are going to post on this thread can you tell me where you get your moral code? I guess that means it's off-topic. I'll start a new thread then. You may , with the direction you are going with it. However you asked I answered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tsiehtalaer Posted December 25, 2011 Group: Nonbeliever Followers: 0 Topic Count: 0 Topics Per Day: 0 Content Count: 5 Content Per Day: 0.00 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/25/2011 Status: Offline Share Posted December 25, 2011 But according to the OT God set down laws and said do not break them they are for your own good - and they are. He did not deviate one iota from those laws and what He expected of man. He has NEVER deviated from His Word. He is just, and honourable. To judge Him you must first judge yourself according to His laws then and only then can you judge Him. He has not deviated until this very day. He stands firm on His Word and that He will fulfill. Didnt he say something about not killing..... Anyone arrogant enough to reject the verdict of the judge or of the priest who represents the LORD your God must be put to death. Such evil must be purged from Israel. (Deuteronomy 17:12 NLT) You should not let a sorceress live. (Exodus 22:17 NAB) "If a man lies with a male as with a women, both of them shall be put to death for their abominable deed; they have forfeited their lives." (Leviticus 20:13 NAB) A man or a woman who acts as a medium or fortuneteller shall be put to death by stoning; they have no one but themselves to blame for their death. (Leviticus 20:27 NAB) Whoever strikes his father or mother shall be put to death. (Exodus 21:15 NAB) All who curse their father or mother must be put to death. They are guilty of a capital offense. (Leviticus 20:9 NLT) If a man commits adultery with another man's wife, both the man and the woman must be put to death. (Leviticus 20:10 NLT) A priest's daughter who loses her honor by committing fornication and thereby dishonors her father also, shall be burned to death. (Leviticus 21:9 NAB) Whoever sacrifices to any god, except the Lord alone, shall be doomed. (Exodus 22:19 NAB) They entered into a covenant to seek the Lord, the God of their fathers, with all their heart and soul; and everyone who would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, was to be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman. (2 Chronicles 15:12-13 NAB) If a man still prophesies, his parents, father and mother, shall say to him, "You shall not live, because you have spoken a lie in the name of the Lord." When he prophesies, his parents, father and mother, shall thrust him through. (Zechariah 13:3 NAB) Suppose you hear in one of the towns the LORD your God is giving you that some worthless rabble among you have led their fellow citizens astray by encouraging them to worship foreign gods. In such cases, you must examine the facts carefully. If you find it is true and can prove that such a detestable act has occurred among you, you must attack that town and completely destroy all its inhabitants, as well as all the livestock. Then you must pile all the plunder in the middle of the street and burn it. Put the entire town to the torch as a burnt offering to the LORD your God. That town must remain a ruin forever; it may never be rebuilt. Keep none of the plunder that has been set apart for destruction. Then the LORD will turn from his fierce anger and be merciful to you. He will have compassion on you and make you a great nation, just as he solemnly promised your ancestors. "The LORD your God will be merciful only if you obey him and keep all the commands I am giving you today, doing what is pleasing to him." (Deuteronomy 13:13-19 NLT) The glory of Israel will fly away like a bird, for your children will die at birth or perish in the womb or never even be conceived. Even if your children do survive to grow up, I will take them from you. It will be a terrible day when I turn away and leave you alone. I have watched Israel become as beautiful and pleasant as Tyre. But now Israel will bring out her children to be slaughtered." O LORD, what should I request for your people? I will ask for wombs that don't give birth and breasts that give no milk. The LORD says, "All their wickedness began at Gilgal; there I began to hate them. I will drive them from my land because of their evil actions. I will love them no more because all their leaders are rebels. The people of Israel are stricken. Their roots are dried up; they will bear no more fruit. And if they give birth, I will slaughter their beloved children." (Hosea 9:11-16 NLT) "Then I heard the LORD say to the other men, "Follow him through the city and kill everyone whose forehead is not marked. Show no mercy; have no pity! Kill them all – old and young, girls and women and little children. But do not touch anyone with the mark. Begin your task right here at the Temple." So they began by killing the seventy leaders. "Defile the Temple!" the LORD commanded. "Fill its courtyards with the bodies of those you kill! Go!" So they went throughout the city and did as they were told." (Ezekiel 9:5-7 NLT) And at midnight the LORD killed all the firstborn sons in the land of Egypt, from the firstborn son of Pharaoh, who sat on the throne, to the firstborn son of the captive in the dungeon. Even the firstborn of their livestock were killed. Pharaoh and his officials and all the people of Egypt woke up during the night, and loud wailing was heard throughout the land of Egypt. There was not a single house where someone had not died. (Exodus 12:29-30 NLT) "You are my battle-ax and sword," says the LORD. "With you I will shatter nations and destroy many kingdoms. With you I will shatter armies, destroying the horse and rider, the chariot and charioteer. With you I will shatter men and women, old people and children, young men and maidens. With you I will shatter shepherds and flocks, farmers and oxen, captains and rulers. "As you watch, I will repay Babylon and the people of Babylonia for all the wrong they have done to my people in Jerusalem," says the LORD. "Look, O mighty mountain, destroyer of the earth! I am your enemy," says the LORD. "I will raise my fist against you, to roll you down from the heights. When I am finished, you will be nothing but a heap of rubble. You will be desolate forever. Even your stones will never again be used for building. You will be completely wiped out," says the LORD. (Jeremiah 51:20-26) (Note that after God promises the Israelites a victory against Babylon, the Israelites actually get their butts kicked by them in the next chapter. So much for an all-knowing and all-powerful God.) If even then you remain hostile toward me and refuse to obey, I will inflict you with seven more disasters for your sins. I will release wild animals that will kill your children and destroy your cattle, so your numbers will dwindle and your roads will be deserted. (Leviticus 26:21-22 NLT) Anyone who is captured will be run through with a sword. Their little children will be dashed to death right before their eyes. Their homes will be sacked and their wives raped by the attacking hordes. For I will stir up the Medes against Babylon, and no amount of silver or gold will buy them off. The attacking armies will shoot down the young people with arrows. They will have no mercy on helpless babies and will show no compassion for the children. (Isaiah 13:15-18 NLT) And thats not all of them, hes a lunatic!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isaiah 6:8 Posted December 25, 2011 Group: Royal Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 426 Topics Per Day: 0.07 Content Count: 3,633 Content Per Day: 0.58 Reputation: 222 Days Won: 13 Joined: 03/23/2007 Status: Offline Birthday: 08/26/1978 Author Share Posted December 25, 2011 But according to the OT God set down laws and said do not break them they are for your own good - and they are. He did not deviate one iota from those laws and what He expected of man. He has NEVER deviated from His Word. He is just, and honourable. To judge Him you must first judge yourself according to His laws then and only then can you judge Him. He has not deviated until this very day. He stands firm on His Word and that He will fulfill. Didnt he say something about not killing..... Anyone arrogant enough to reject the verdict of the judge or of the priest who represents the LORD your God must be put to death. Such evil must be purged from Israel. (Deuteronomy 17:12 NLT) You should not let a sorceress live. (Exodus 22:17 NAB) "If a man lies with a male as with a women, both of them shall be put to death for their abominable deed; they have forfeited their lives." (Leviticus 20:13 NAB) A man or a woman who acts as a medium or fortuneteller shall be put to death by stoning; they have no one but themselves to blame for their death. (Leviticus 20:27 NAB) Whoever strikes his father or mother shall be put to death. (Exodus 21:15 NAB) All who curse their father or mother must be put to death. They are guilty of a capital offense. (Leviticus 20:9 NLT) If a man commits adultery with another man's wife, both the man and the woman must be put to death. (Leviticus 20:10 NLT) A priest's daughter who loses her honor by committing fornication and thereby dishonors her father also, shall be burned to death. (Leviticus 21:9 NAB) Whoever sacrifices to any god, except the Lord alone, shall be doomed. (Exodus 22:19 NAB) They entered into a covenant to seek the Lord, the God of their fathers, with all their heart and soul; and everyone who would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, was to be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman. (2 Chronicles 15:12-13 NAB) If a man still prophesies, his parents, father and mother, shall say to him, "You shall not live, because you have spoken a lie in the name of the Lord." When he prophesies, his parents, father and mother, shall thrust him through. (Zechariah 13:3 NAB) Suppose you hear in one of the towns the LORD your God is giving you that some worthless rabble among you have led their fellow citizens astray by encouraging them to worship foreign gods. In such cases, you must examine the facts carefully. If you find it is true and can prove that such a detestable act has occurred among you, you must attack that town and completely destroy all its inhabitants, as well as all the livestock. Then you must pile all the plunder in the middle of the street and burn it. Put the entire town to the torch as a burnt offering to the LORD your God. That town must remain a ruin forever; it may never be rebuilt. Keep none of the plunder that has been set apart for destruction. Then the LORD will turn from his fierce anger and be merciful to you. He will have compassion on you and make you a great nation, just as he solemnly promised your ancestors. "The LORD your God will be merciful only if you obey him and keep all the commands I am giving you today, doing what is pleasing to him." (Deuteronomy 13:13-19 NLT) The glory of Israel will fly away like a bird, for your children will die at birth or perish in the womb or never even be conceived. Even if your children do survive to grow up, I will take them from you. It will be a terrible day when I turn away and leave you alone. I have watched Israel become as beautiful and pleasant as Tyre. But now Israel will bring out her children to be slaughtered." O LORD, what should I request for your people? I will ask for wombs that don't give birth and breasts that give no milk. The LORD says, "All their wickedness began at Gilgal; there I began to hate them. I will drive them from my land because of their evil actions. I will love them no more because all their leaders are rebels. The people of Israel are stricken. Their roots are dried up; they will bear no more fruit. And if they give birth, I will slaughter their beloved children." (Hosea 9:11-16 NLT) "Then I heard the LORD say to the other men, "Follow him through the city and kill everyone whose forehead is not marked. Show no mercy; have no pity! Kill them all – old and young, girls and women and little children. But do not touch anyone with the mark. Begin your task right here at the Temple." So they began by killing the seventy leaders. "Defile the Temple!" the LORD commanded. "Fill its courtyards with the bodies of those you kill! Go!" So they went throughout the city and did as they were told." (Ezekiel 9:5-7 NLT) And at midnight the LORD killed all the firstborn sons in the land of Egypt, from the firstborn son of Pharaoh, who sat on the throne, to the firstborn son of the captive in the dungeon. Even the firstborn of their livestock were killed. Pharaoh and his officials and all the people of Egypt woke up during the night, and loud wailing was heard throughout the land of Egypt. There was not a single house where someone had not died. (Exodus 12:29-30 NLT) "You are my battle-ax and sword," says the LORD. "With you I will shatter nations and destroy many kingdoms. With you I will shatter armies, destroying the horse and rider, the chariot and charioteer. With you I will shatter men and women, old people and children, young men and maidens. With you I will shatter shepherds and flocks, farmers and oxen, captains and rulers. "As you watch, I will repay Babylon and the people of Babylonia for all the wrong they have done to my people in Jerusalem," says the LORD. "Look, O mighty mountain, destroyer of the earth! I am your enemy," says the LORD. "I will raise my fist against you, to roll you down from the heights. When I am finished, you will be nothing but a heap of rubble. You will be desolate forever. Even your stones will never again be used for building. You will be completely wiped out," says the LORD. (Jeremiah 51:20-26) (Note that after God promises the Israelites a victory against Babylon, the Israelites actually get their butts kicked by them in the next chapter. So much for an all-knowing and all-powerful God.) If even then you remain hostile toward me and refuse to obey, I will inflict you with seven more disasters for your sins. I will release wild animals that will kill your children and destroy your cattle, so your numbers will dwindle and your roads will be deserted. (Leviticus 26:21-22 NLT) Anyone who is captured will be run through with a sword. Their little children will be dashed to death right before their eyes. Their homes will be sacked and their wives raped by the attacking hordes. For I will stir up the Medes against Babylon, and no amount of silver or gold will buy them off. The attacking armies will shoot down the young people with arrows. They will have no mercy on helpless babies and will show no compassion for the children. (Isaiah 13:15-18 NLT) And thats not all of them, hes a lunatic!!!! and yet you do not answer the OP. where `i aske where do you get your morals or vantange point to call god a lunitic or evil as you have. `you seem to admit his existnce but you think he is crazy.\ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneLight Posted December 25, 2011 Group: Royal Member Followers: 22 Topic Count: 1,294 Topics Per Day: 0.21 Content Count: 31,762 Content Per Day: 5.23 Reputation: 9,762 Days Won: 115 Joined: 09/14/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted December 25, 2011 Didnt he say something about not killing..... Actually, it is "You shall not murder." There is a difference between murder and killing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valoran Posted December 26, 2011 Group: Removed from Forums for Breaking Terms of Service Followers: 1 Topic Count: 1 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 200 Content Per Day: 0.04 Reputation: 5 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/11/2011 Status: Offline Share Posted December 26, 2011 Actually, it is "You shall not murder." There is a difference between murder and killing. I assume that the point of this comment to point out that murder is not murder when it's sanctioned by God. Doesn't it strike you as strange then that God creates laws that He applies for everyone but Himself? How then do you infer that God is good? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneLight Posted December 26, 2011 Group: Royal Member Followers: 22 Topic Count: 1,294 Topics Per Day: 0.21 Content Count: 31,762 Content Per Day: 5.23 Reputation: 9,762 Days Won: 115 Joined: 09/14/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted December 26, 2011 Actually, it is "You shall not murder." There is a difference between murder and killing. I assume that the point of this comment to point out that murder is not murder when it's sanctioned by God. Doesn't it strike you as strange then that God creates laws that He applies for everyone but Himself? How then do you infer that God is good? Murder is when you take an innocent life. Killing is when it is justified. If God takes a life, it is for a righteous reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valoran Posted December 26, 2011 Group: Removed from Forums for Breaking Terms of Service Followers: 1 Topic Count: 1 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 200 Content Per Day: 0.04 Reputation: 5 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/11/2011 Status: Offline Share Posted December 26, 2011 Actually, it is "You shall not murder." There is a difference between murder and killing. I assume that the point of this comment to point out that murder is not murder when it's sanctioned by God. Doesn't it strike you as strange then that God creates laws that He applies for everyone but Himself? How then do you infer that God is good? Murder is when you take an innocent life. Killing is when it is justified. If God takes a life, it is for a righteous reason. So we know that God is good because He is always righteous, and He is always righteous because He is good? The problem with this circular logic is that even when you are confronted with direct evidence that God may, in fact, not be good, all that happens is that the evidence gets dismissed offhand because we "know" that God is "always good". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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