Isaiah 6:8 Posted April 1, 2011 Group: Royal Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 426 Topics Per Day: 0.07 Content Count: 3,633 Content Per Day: 0.58 Reputation: 222 Days Won: 13 Joined: 03/23/2007 Status: Offline Birthday: 08/26/1978 Author Share Posted April 1, 2011 True Love is eternal. True love may be eternal but God gave us the ability to choose whether we want to embrace it or not. It's Satan who gave us the choice, not God, for Satan is the Father of sin and instigated disobedience. God said to love Him with all our hearts minds and souls, Satan says we don't have to. The choice put before men is about who you are going to trust. Who will be your master? God who says He is all there is, or Satan who says God is a liar. You will consider it your freedom to decide. I will contend that we are controlled by either Truth or lies. If God doesn't allow us the choice, then you're stating that Satan is superior to God because he able to override the Will of God. Here you make a good point. I would respond that God, who being omniscient, and omnipresent, in His foreknowledge, knew He would be taken for granted. For this reason He made it so that He would use Satan's vanity to glorify Himself. This is why I' said earlier that God designed it so that the children of God would be born out of corruption so that we would forever grow unto Him. Satan is not therefore Superior since God used him for His own purposes unto His own ends. So your saying that God created evil? Wait, if love is not a choice, why allow evil at all? unless God was also partially evil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest man Posted April 1, 2011 Share Posted April 1, 2011 If the choice isn't there, why is this included in the Word? 1 Corinthians 13 1 Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I have become sounding brass or a clanging cymbal. 2 And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. 3 And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, but have not love, it profits me nothing. 4 Love suffers long and is kind; love does not envy; love does not parade itself, is not puffed up; 5 does not behave rudely, does not seek its own, is not provoked, thinks no evil; 6 does not rejoice in iniquity, but rejoices in the truth; 7 bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things. I do believe these scriptures make my point not yours. Read the first 3 verses again. Paul is stating that is possible to accomplish all those things without love. What does he reference those acts without love as being? "but have not love, I have become sounding brass or a clanging cymbal." "but have not love, I am nothing." "but have not love, it profits me nothing." So it is possible to walk without love. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
childeye Posted April 1, 2011 Group: Senior Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 5 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 517 Content Per Day: 0.11 Reputation: 20 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/16/2011 Status: Offline Share Posted April 1, 2011 Also, if you do not make a choice by will, that means a person other then yourself chose. This means you were forced to do it. If you are forced. Forced means you have no choice. Then by your logic either we all in contradiction to the Bible will go to heaven, as we will all choose love, as we are forced to choose. You err again in the semantics of your words. "Will" translates into "desire". The desire of the flesh is hardwired to know only pain and pleasure. One cannot choose to not feel pain when being burned by fire. Yet those ruled by God have endured being burned alive for the sake of His Gospel. The sinner of course wills to sin therefore, because he is compelled by the lust of his flesh, while those following after the Spirit willingly deny the will of the flesh for the sake of the Spirit and this Spirit is Love. The word choice can be taken both subjectively and objectively in perspective. You are confusing the two. where in the word does it say that the desire of the flesh is hardwired to pain and pleasure? It doesn't say this in scripture. Please let's not be ridiculous. Although the scripture does not say the body contains an appendix, does not mean the appendix does not exist. Moreover, you can only be using this as a means to discredit me in your reasoning. This would not be forthright. Everybody knows there exists pain and pleasure in the flesh, even as we know there are nerves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
childeye Posted April 1, 2011 Group: Senior Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 5 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 517 Content Per Day: 0.11 Reputation: 20 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/16/2011 Status: Offline Share Posted April 1, 2011 If the choice isn't there, why is this included in the Word? 1 Corinthians 13 1 Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I have become sounding brass or a clanging cymbal. 2 And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. 3 And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, but have not love, it profits me nothing. 4 Love suffers long and is kind; love does not envy; love does not parade itself, is not puffed up; 5 does not behave rudely, does not seek its own, is not provoked, thinks no evil; 6 does not rejoice in iniquity, but rejoices in the truth; 7 bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things. I do believe these scriptures make my point not yours. Read the first 3 verses again. Paul is stating that is possible to accomplish all those things without love. What does he reference those acts without love as being? "but have not love, I have become sounding brass or a clanging cymbal." "but have not love, I am nothing." "but have not love, it profits me nothing." So it is possible to walk without love. Of course one can walk without Love, we see it everyday in whatever is sinful. For Love does no evil. The bible speaks of ungodliness and that is for sure. So what? As Paul says and as I am attesting to, "without Love I am nothing". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest man Posted April 1, 2011 Share Posted April 1, 2011 True Love is eternal. True love may be eternal but God gave us the ability to choose whether we want to embrace it or not. It's Satan who gave us the choice, not God, for Satan is the Father of sin and instigated disobedience. God said to love Him with all our hearts minds and souls, Satan says we don't have to. The choice put before men is about who you are going to trust. Who will be your master? God who says He is all there is, or Satan who says God is a liar. You will consider it your freedom to decide. I will contend that we are controlled by either Truth or lies. If God doesn't allow us the choice, then you're stating that Satan is superior to God because he able to override the Will of God. Here you make a good point. I would respond that God, who being omniscient, and omnipresent, in His foreknowledge, knew He would be taken for granted. For this reason He made it so that He would use Satan's vanity to glorify Himself. This is why I' said earlier that God designed it so that the children of God would be born out of corruption so that we would forever grow unto Him. Satan is not therefore Superior since God used him for His own purposes unto His own ends. Taking Him for granted implies that a choice is being made. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest man Posted April 1, 2011 Share Posted April 1, 2011 Of course one can walk without Love, we see it everyday in whatever is sinful. For Love does no evil. The bible speaks of ungodliness and that is for sure. So what? As Paul says and as I am attesting to, "without Love I am nothing". How is that possible without the ability to choose? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
childeye Posted April 1, 2011 Group: Senior Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 5 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 517 Content Per Day: 0.11 Reputation: 20 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/16/2011 Status: Offline Share Posted April 1, 2011 True Love is eternal. True love may be eternal but God gave us the ability to choose whether we want to embrace it or not. It's Satan who gave us the choice, not God, for Satan is the Father of sin and instigated disobedience. God said to love Him with all our hearts minds and souls, Satan says we don't have to. The choice put before men is about who you are going to trust. Who will be your master? God who says He is all there is, or Satan who says God is a liar. You will consider it your freedom to decide. I will contend that we are controlled by either Truth or lies. If God doesn't allow us the choice, then you're stating that Satan is superior to God because he able to override the Will of God. Here you make a good point. I would respond that God, who being omniscient, and omnipresent, in His foreknowledge, knew He would be taken for granted. For this reason He made it so that He would use Satan's vanity to glorify Himself. This is why I' said earlier that God designed it so that the children of God would be born out of corruption so that we would forever grow unto Him. Satan is not therefore Superior since God used him for His own purposes unto His own ends. So your saying that God created evil? Wait, if love is not a choice, why allow evil at all? unless God was also partially evil. Isaiah 45:6-7 That they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west, that there is none beside me. I am the LORD, and there is none else. I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
childeye Posted April 1, 2011 Group: Senior Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 5 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 517 Content Per Day: 0.11 Reputation: 20 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/16/2011 Status: Offline Share Posted April 1, 2011 Of course one can walk without Love, we see it everyday in whatever is sinful. For Love does no evil. The bible speaks of ungodliness and that is for sure. So what? As Paul says and as I am attesting to, "without Love I am nothing". How is that possible without the ability to choose? Once again we are getting lost in semantics. You are using the word choose in a purely subjective perspective. Consider that choosing is not an ability but an inevitability. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
childeye Posted April 1, 2011 Group: Senior Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 5 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 517 Content Per Day: 0.11 Reputation: 20 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/16/2011 Status: Offline Share Posted April 1, 2011 True Love is eternal. True love may be eternal but God gave us the ability to choose whether we want to embrace it or not. It's Satan who gave us the choice, not God, for Satan is the Father of sin and instigated disobedience. God said to love Him with all our hearts minds and souls, Satan says we don't have to. The choice put before men is about who you are going to trust. Who will be your master? God who says He is all there is, or Satan who says God is a liar. You will consider it your freedom to decide. I will contend that we are controlled by either Truth or lies. If God doesn't allow us the choice, then you're stating that Satan is superior to God because he able to override the Will of God. Here you make a good point. I would respond that God, who being omniscient, and omnipresent, in His foreknowledge, knew He would be taken for granted. For this reason He made it so that He would use Satan's vanity to glorify Himself. This is why I' said earlier that God designed it so that the children of God would be born out of corruption so that we would forever grow unto Him. Satan is not therefore Superior since God used him for His own purposes unto His own ends. Taking Him for granted implies that a choice is being made. No it does not. It means one is blind to what one has. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fez Posted April 1, 2011 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 683 Topics Per Day: 0.12 Content Count: 11,128 Content Per Day: 2.00 Reputation: 1,352 Days Won: 54 Joined: 02/03/2009 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/07/1952 Share Posted April 1, 2011 True Love is eternal. True love may be eternal but God gave us the ability to choose whether we want to embrace it or not. It's Satan who gave us the choice, not God, for Satan is the Father of sin and instigated disobedience. God said to love Him with all our hearts minds and souls, Satan says we don't have to. The choice put before men is about who you are going to trust. Who will be your master? God who says He is all there is, or Satan who says God is a liar. You will consider it your freedom to decide. I will contend that we are controlled by either Truth or lies. If God doesn't allow us the choice, then you're stating that Satan is superior to God because he able to override the Will of God. Here you make a good point. I would respond that God, who being omniscient, and omnipresent, in His foreknowledge, knew He would be taken for granted. For this reason He made it so that He would use Satan's vanity to glorify Himself. This is why I' said earlier that God designed it so that the children of God would be born out of corruption so that we would forever grow unto Him. Satan is not therefore Superior since God used him for His own purposes unto His own ends. Taking Him for granted implies that a choice is being made. No it does not. It means one is blind to what one has. Which in itself stems from choice.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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