Reason with me on this...

[childeye]

Beginnings: Hamartiology as evidenced is needed for a profitable foundation in God's Word:

When in the Garden the tree of knowledge of good and evil... satan had to have already fallen for evil is this:

lies... for God fills all things with His truth... and the lie of satan is that there is something other than God's filling

and truth! It can be understood in many ways but the best is because it originated within the created thing it has no eternal

substance which is only of God and what He creates. It is a lie defined without substance existing as evil under judgment

and eternal separation from God and His image...

2 Cor 5:21

21 For He made Him who knew no sin to be sin for us, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.

NKJV

The truth that there is only God and all else has come into being by Him except sin for sin is not substanced in God but satan!

There is an infinite only in God and that which is not of God is swallowed up in God's all things are possible unto The Father and this is where true fear should

resign! For can change what God has determined? He has written down all that He will do and given to us so that we may know Him and His intentions.... Why

you might ask?

Mark 13:21-23

21 "Then if anyone says to you, 'Look, here is the Christ!' or, 'Look, He is there!' do not believe it. 22 For false christs and false prophets will rise and show signs

and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect. 23 But take heed; see, I have told you all things beforehand.

NKJV

It is the last of days.... Love Steven

The tree of knowledge of good and evil is to experience and know both. It is a tree that was planted by God for His purpose. Even Leviathon is a creature made by God. Satan's Fall was after the death of the Christ for his being made a spectacle of before all the angels in heaven was done on the cross.

Colossians 2: 14-15, Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross. And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.

Therefore the casting out of Satan had to be after the death of Christ, as is purported in Revelations 12: 13, And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child. I hate to have to differ with you Steven, but evil is none other than the absence of Love. Lies or ignorance, or deception, are the absence of Truth. Darkness is the absence of Light. They are not the creation of Satan though he may think they are. God prepared a place for charity and grace to be seen.

Isaiah 45: 5-7,Thus saith the LORD to his anointed, to Cyrus, whose right hand I have holden, to subdue nations before him; and I will loose the loins of kings, to open before him the two leaved gates; and the gates shall not be shut;

2I will go before thee, and make the crooked places straight: I will break in pieces the gates of brass, and cut in sunder the bars of iron:

3And I will give thee the treasures of darkness, and hidden riches of secret places, that thou mayest know that I, the LORD, which call thee by thy name, am the God of Israel.

4For Jacob my servant's sake, and Israel mine elect, I have even called thee by thy name: I have surnamed thee, though thou hast not known me.

5I am the LORD, and there is none else, there is no God beside me: I girded thee, though thou hast not known me:

6That they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west, that there is none beside me. I am the LORD, and there is none else.

7I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

8Drop down, ye heavens, from above, and let the skies pour down righteousness: let the earth open, and let them bring forth salvation, and let righteousness spring up together; I the LORD have created it.

9Woe unto him that striveth with his Maker! Let the potsherd strive with the potsherds of the earth. Shall the clay say to him that fashioneth it, What makest thou? or thy work, He hath no hands?Steven, Lord knows how much I have stressed over how you would respond to my last post to you. For it is in my mind and heart that whoever is instructed by God and knows the Truth the more, is held responsible if there is conflict with others in the body. For the ones that are less informed are not held as responsible. I know this may sound like a personal attack upon your knowledge of scripture. I bow to you that I must be your servant if I am to fulfill my walk here in this Forum, please In Jesus' name I bessech you, try to go easy on me if you are able. I am doing my best. I was not taught through scripture although it comes in handy for reproof. I learned it primarily through revelation and the Holy Spirit presents it in ways that are more thought than words. Therefore I convey it in a manner that is more off the cuff than perhaps you're used to hearing, and so you are made uneasy by this. I understand that. If you wish, I will show you the self-evident Truth I was shown and you can judge for yourself the veracity of it.

Edited April 6, 2011 by childeye

[childeye]

Childeye,

In a strange way I think I understand what you are saying.

By God introducing the Law, satan can now be identified based on a median. So much of the Old Testament is based on satanic influence and it outlines what life without Christ is like.

The New Testament shows us what life with Christ is like.

Where the idea of the OT is satanic comes from it certainly didn't come from God. The entire OT is there to teach us how God wants us to act, act like someone He can call His child. We take the first books and show that man is not capable of ruling himself and how God set up guidelines, rules, commandments so we could walk in His grace. The NT are letters written to various people and congregations either chastising them for not behaving as they should as well as addressing many other issues. There is nothing new in the new testament that was not in the old or promised in the OT. Luicfer was there before man he is the one that God allowed to test man, which He knew would fail so God being the all loving, all encompassing Adonia who covers His people with His grace always layed it all out, God said if you do these things I will be your God and the books are showing how man sometimes walked in His ways and was blessed greatly or failed miserably and that caused God to scatter them to the nations. The whole bible tells of the fall of man and the redemption of man, if we did not have the OT the NT wouldn't make much sense, for instance James is written to the 12 tribes abroad, to the dispersed tribes, would people understand that God is restoring Israel by just reading the NT? Would anyone know when the signs and things to look for His return if not for the OT? After all God tells us specifically that He reveals the end in the beginning so how can the OT be satanically influenced if God set godly men to write His instruction and as we are told all scripture is given to us for our benefit and the apostles were talking not about the NT but the OT since the NT was not written or compiled.

Certainly satan has an influence on all generations if a person is not walking in God's light, no more so than today there is much more influence of satan today than when our ancestors were walking the earth. Your statement that the OT outlines what life was like without Messiah is kinda weird, they knew God, they had living breathing prophets who heard Gods voice, they knew there was a Messiah coming and anxiously awaited His arrival. If your statement is true then we are also living in OT times because we do not have a Messiah sitting on an earthly throne, we do not 'see' Him face to face, we are in the same position as the OT believers, waiting for our Messiah to come and bring us into His Kingdom.

shalom,

Mizz

What a can of worms was opened and I struggle to answer all of your valid questions, not because I cannot but because the terms of the words must first be agreed upon. What is sin, for sin existed before the law. What is the Old Testament? For the promise made to Abraham regarding the Christ coming through Isaac born of Sarah was before the instituting of the law. To be precise I would like to clarify something. The Old Testament was not given out of faith but out of doubt. The laws are given for sinners and through the law all men stand condemned. You in effect have already stated this above. If there was a man who was able to keep it other than Jesus, then it would be established we have a freewill to choose to do so. But this is not the case. Scripture shows that men could not, for all have fallen short of the glory of God, for which Christ needed to sacrifice himself so his blood would be an atonement for sin according to the requirement of the law. The Old Testament is therefore a covenant with death, not life, without this life giving blood. Therefore salvation will not come by the works of the law. You already have said Satan was allowed by God to test man. This is not how I would describe these events nor do I believe God tests men, unless you mean to say God wanted to prove men were incapable of goodness apart from God's grace. Apart from Godly Love.

There is a distinct difference between the Old Testament and the New therefore. The New is of the Spirit while the Old is of the Letter. In other words, those who have the Spirit of Christ which comes by grace through faith, do not need commandments, for they have the nature and mind of Christ and so they do not sin according to Christ's commandments which surpass those of the Old Testament. Therefore they do not need commandments, who have this Spirit, since they do by nature what is required of the letter of the law. Understanding this, it is also known that those who prescribe to the works of the law for righteousness will not attain righteousness, for they think they have the power inside themselves and are blind to the righteousness that comes from God through faith in the Christ.19Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. Romans 3:19-20,

20Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

21But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;

22Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:

23For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

24Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

25Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

Satan is of a vanity that thinks himself pious through his own effort rather than by God's providence. He supposes he will ascend his throne above the stars of heaven even unto the throne of God. So Satan's image of god is an image that promotes this vanity. Do you see the correlation between this type of vanity and the righteousness that is according to the law? Satan therefore does persecute those who preach this gospel of the Christ crucifed because it sets people free from the bondage of the law in which men are held captive according to a false image of God. 2 Corinthians, 4:3-4, But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost: In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

So we see that the dragon waits to consume the Christ in Revelations 12:4. Satan is in the high priests who make intercession according to the Old Testament in Matthew 26:3. We see the Christ destroying Satan's power by taking away the laws through which he held us captive in Colossians 2:14-15. We see Jesus the good Shepherd laying down his life to protect the sheep form the wolf in John 10:11-12. We see Satan accusing men and they overcome him by the blood of the Lamb in Revelations 12:10-11. We see Satan persecuting the Christians in Revelations 12:17. And we see those of the Old Testament answering to the Jerusalem on earth persecuting those who answer to the New Jerusalem in heaven in Galatians 4:24-29. In light of these scriptures and the ones above, one must conclude that those who hold to the righteousness through the works of the law or Old Testament are the seeing made blind through the gospel and are of the same vanity as Satan.

James 3:14-17,But if ye have bitter envying and strife in your hearts, glory not, and lie not against the truth. This wisdom descendeth not from above, but is earthly, sensual, devilish. For where envying and strife is, there is confusion and every evil work. But the wisdom that is from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, and easy to be intreated, full of mercy and good fruits, without partiality, and without hypocrisy.

1Corinthians 2:7-8, But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory: Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.

Edited April 6, 2011 by childeye

[childeye]

I appreciate your candor. It is necessary you be forthright so that I may address your concerns. May I be candid with you however? My Love for God is not an issue to prove to you even as I do not question yours. Such suspiscions are the foundation of the Kingdom of darkness and it is my duty unto God to say so. You err greatly to use scripture as your litmus test for acceptance into your confidence. The Christ was crucified by those who knew scripture. Satan quotes scripture. Need I give you scripture to prove that? Your love is not of Faith in God if he who is illiterate is cast out, because he does not read and cannot quote you scripture. Though most early Christians were illiterate, they were joined in a simple Truth. Love others as you would want to be loved, and in the end judgment and justice will come, for there is a God who is just and sees all. This is enough and all there needs be known.

The Scriptures are my sight, my only sight, I rely on nothing else and I am commanded by God to evaluate all things by Their light.

Isa 8:20

20 To the law and to the testimony! If they do not speak according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.

NKJV

I need no scripture to know it is Truth. Love God with all your heart mind and soul. I need not hear it or read it to know it is Truth. The Word of God in my heart already knows this. How do you suppose I believe in the Christ? Because his words are the same as the Word in my heart. John 5:38, John 8:47. I know Love in person therefore without having to read what love is. I did not ask you to prove yourselves to me, whoever you all are, knowing no one owns the Truth except God. I am not your judge and you not mine for all is pure to me, praise be to God, even as God has made it. And in this I glorify God and not myself. In good faith I accepted that you all are doing your best in this world of doubt and darkness, knowing that eternal Love will overcome, even as I would want that done to me. Has it not dawned on you how many divisions there are over scripture? Do you know how many people are turned away from Christ because the pure waters are muddied and the good pasture is trampled? Trampled by those whose interpretations are their requirement for agreement, without the humility to consider they are errant in their interpretation to begin with? Are you aware that countries who shared in the same cup and broke the same bread, and read the same scripture, then kill each other in senseless wars? Yet the Holy Spirit would not instruct us to kill one another, who teaches to bear one another's sins. Need I show you scripture for you to understand the truth of it. Are you aware scripture was deliberately written to divide those who hear in purity, and those who hear in impurity of heart? Hence people interpret accordingly. Christ is simple so as a little child can understand, but the understanding that comes from God resists the proud. Matthew 18:3, 2 Corinthians 11:3.

Now we are starting to get to the crux of the difference from understandings...

I do not trust my heart

Jer 17:9-10

9 "The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked; Who can know it?

10 I, the Lord, search the heart, I test the mind, even to give every man according to his ways,

According to the fruit of his doings.

NKJV

We are told here by God that He alone can search our hearts-> 'OUR desperately wicked HEARTS'!

It is the Scriptures (written) that all may come and be renewed in their mind and produce Godly actions- the objective foundation of God is His Written Word... not the subjective aspect of wicked hearts!

The word Satanic is not in scripture, though many referances are made to Satan who used the law of God to accuse men before God, Revelations 12:10, even to crucify His Son for blaspheme, Matthew 26:75. To say the Old Testament is Satanic because it contains both the Spirit of temptation, Romans 7:8, and accusation, Romans 7:11 is accurate, for he is the Father of sin and therefore hypocritical. What I said can therefore be misunderstood as so many things are.

For Jesus was said to say he would bring down the Temple, and this was used in an accusing manner, Matthew 26:61. This is quite the same as how I now stand accused of saying God's law is Satanic, when all I've said is the Old Testament is Satanic in that it contains both temptation and accusation. In other words, Satan was the covering Cherub, and if you do not know what a covering Cherub does, you will not understand how he was in charge of the administrating of the Old Testament. How do you think he who was without sin, (the Christ) was found to be a sinner, if there wasn't something wrong in the administrating of the law?

You are need of repentance for this you have written is blasphemous error! You had better get out of your heart foundation and reconnect to the objective written Word of God foundation.

But if you pursue your impure evaluation of me, it will not matter how much scripture I show you, even as it mattered not to those who crucified the Christ. You will simply say I misinterpret or twist scripture so as to justify your ignorance in such matters. If you are sincere in the Love of God and pure of heart as I hope you are, you will not allow hatred towards me to conquer your heart and mind so as to persecute me for blaspheme and causing division. Though I suspect we would not allow ourselves to believe we harbor such thoughts if we are deceived by Satan. We would instead claim we rise above the other in a condescending pride that we call indifference, and simply ignore one another, convinced the other is the enemy and that God is on my side.

there is no other foundation but the written Word of God! Period... not your heart or your mind or your anything!!!!! God's Word only is the judge of all understanding

But I will not think that of you, for to Love my neighbor as I would Love myself prevents this. Hence I have the Spirit of Christ and will count it reward that you treat me this way, and bless you on your way, knowing you know not what you're doing. For Jesus said, that which you do unto the least of my brethren, you do unto me. I've just given you scripture as you required. You claim I have a distorted opinion. I will say that this is a distorted opinion of me. Am I better than you? No, I am not. For I do not believe men are capable of being better than others as I've consistantly claimed in all my posts. We all rely upon mercy and must bear each others tresspasses, even as the Christ did ours upon the cross. Such is the Love of God. I have said that Satan's power came through the laws of Moses under the Old Testament, and this is what was meant to be understood. For those with wicked and corrupt minds, for the record, I never said that the laws of God are bad, or to break the laws of God. On the contrary, I have railed against the proposition that men think they have the option of doing so, "Freewill" , calling it vanity, and therefore sin. In Collossians 2:15 we see that Christ paid the price for the accusation, and took out of the way the ordinances that were against us. And Satan who believes authority should be given to those whose piety is according to the law, is the Spiritual principalities and powers made a spectacle of. All I said was the same thing Paul said.

If you do not open to the truth of God's Word and cast all your foolish thought and emotions and heart supremacy away you will stand in danger of rejection of Jesus Christ The Living of the written Word.... Love Steven

Dear Steven, You have concluded that the heart is wicked and do not trust your heart, nor will you trust mine according to your interpretation of scripture. With this conviction you have counted me a preacher of lies. Of course I agree with scripture that the heart is wicked for this is why I have said we do not have a freewill as long as the heart is wicked. I ask you to reconsider in the light of scripture.

Psalm 51:10 Create in me a clean heart, O God; and renew a right spirit within me.

Psalm 141:4 Incline not my heart to any evil thing, to practise wicked works with men that work iniquity: and let me not eat of their dainties.

Matthew 5:8 Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see God.

You see Steven, God is able to cure the wicked heart. Love, Larry.

[enoob57]

I am glad you are reasoning with me in the Scriptures... now we will communicate! Do you claim to be without sin Larry?

[childeye]

I am glad you are reasoning with me in the Scriptures... now we will communicate! Do you claim to be without sin Larry?

Thank you for your response Steven. I love this question. I will tell you that just as everybody else and as I have claimed consistantly, all men have been proven sinners through the Old Testament. Moreover through one man sin entered into all men, even our Father Adam. Therefore sin is recognized in the flesh. However there is a difference between having sin and sinning deliberately. In this I make a distinction between the condition of having sin and acting out of that sin. We read in scripture that it is possible to not sin through Christ if indeed our flesh is put to death with Christ so that we no longer walk after the flesh but after the Spirit of Christ. Being dead to the law of death sin has no power being that we are under grace.

Romans 6: 11-14 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord. Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof. Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God. For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.

1John 3:7-10, Dear children, don't let anyone lead you down the wrong path. Those who do what is right are holy, just as Christ is holy. 8 Those who do what is sinful belong to the devil. They are just like him. He has been sinning from the beginning. But the Son of God came to destroy the devil's work. Those who are born again because of what God has done will not keep on sinning. God's very nature remains in them. They can't go on sinning. They have been born again because of what God has done. Here is how you can tell the difference between the children of God and the children of the devil. Those who don't do what is right do not belong to God. Those who don't love their brothers and sisters do not belong to him either.

So now to answer your question directly concerning myself, and by no means do I mean to cast blame on anyone else, but I speak only for me. I am warm while others are cold. My stomach is full while others go hungry. My family has a house and sleep in beds while other families have no home and sleep under bridges. I have not sold all my possessions and given the proceeds to the poor. I am a sinner. And I give thanks to God that I think on these terms according to the conviction of the Holy Spirit. I am thankful also to God that my family is safe and provided for, but at the same time I grieve in my comfort. My hope is that I am saved through mercy.

Love Larry

[enoob57]

The tree of knowledge of good and evil is to experience and know both. It is a tree that was planted by God for His purpose. Even Leviathon is a creature made by God. Satan's Fall was after the death of the Christ for his being made a spectacle of before all the angels in heaven was done on the cross.

Colossians 2: 14-15, Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross. And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.

A lie is sin and the Father of lies is satan and in the garden sin was present in the lie of the serpent

therefore satan had already fallen..

Gen 3:4-5

4 Then the serpent said to the woman, "You will not surely die. 5 For God knows that in the day you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil."

NKJV

Seeing how this is the beginnings of learning and truths are built precept upon precept

Isa 28:9-10

9 "Whom will he teach knowledge?

And whom will he make to understand the message?

Those just weaned from milk?

Those just drawn from the breasts?

10 For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept,

Line upon line, line upon line,

Here a little, there a little."

NKJV

you must return here and tear all else you have built after this and rebuild with this stone of truth in it's proper place! I fear you will not do this

because I read pride and false humility in your comments... I do not say this to be mean but you have elevated your own self above the

written Word of God!

Steven, Lord knows how much I have stressed over how you would respond to my last post to you. For it is in my mind and heart that whoever is instructed by God and knows the Truth the more, is held responsible if there is conflict with others in the body. For the ones that are less informed are not held as responsible. I know this may sound like a personal attack upon your knowledge of scripture. I bow to you that I must be your servant if I am to fulfill my walk here in this Forum, please In Jesus' name I bessech you, try to go easy on me if you are able. I am doing my best. I was not taught through scripture although it comes in handy for reproof. I learned it primarily through revelation and the Holy Spirit presents it in ways that are more thought than words. Therefore I convey it in a manner that is more off the cuff than perhaps you're used to hearing, and so you are made uneasy by this. I understand that. If you wish, I will show you the self-evident Truth I was shown and you can judge for yourself the veracity of it.

Friend I judge all things by the written Word ... established foundations of truth stone upon stone, truth in God's Spirit taught through the written Word.

1 Peter 2:4-10

4 Coming to Him as to a living stone, rejected indeed by men, but chosen by God and precious, 5 you also, as living stones, are being built up a

spiritual house, a holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ. 6 Therefore it is also contained in the Scripture,

"Behold, I lay in Zion

A chief cornerstone, elect, precious,

And he who believes on Him will by no means be put to shame."

7 Therefore, to you who believe, He is precious; but to those who are disobedient,

"The stone which the builders rejected

Has become the chief cornerstone,"

8 and

"A stone of stumbling

And a rock of offense."

They stumble, being disobedient

to the word

, to which they also were appointed.

9 But you are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, His own special people, that you may proclaim the praises of Him who called

you out of darkness into His marvelous light; 10 who once were not a people but are now the people of God, who had not obtained mercy but now

have obtained mercy.

NKJV

Loved one, it is quite common for the young in God's Word to be led away from that Word by trusting in The Holy Spirit that is in the heart but it is God

Who has stressed the way we are to grow and come of age in Him through the Holy Spirit

2 Tim 2:15

Be diligent to present yourself approved to God, a worker who does not need to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

NKJV

2 Tim 3:13-17

13 But evil men and impostors will grow worse and worse, deceiving and being deceived. 14 But you must continue in the things which you have learned and been assured of, knowing from whom you have learned them, 15 and that from childhood you have known the Holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.

16 All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, 17 that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work.

NKJV

I don't care what experience you have had the path to God is belief in His Son unto new birth regeneration and

applying His Word by the Teacher within (Holy Spirit) unto sanctification... Love Steven

[enoob57]

I am glad you are reasoning with me in the Scriptures... now we will communicate! Do you claim to be without sin Larry?

Thank you for your response Steven. I love this question. I will tell you that just as everybody else and as I have claimed consistantly, all men have been proven sinners through the Old Testament. Moreover through one man sin entered into all men, even our Father Adam. Therefore sin is recognized in the flesh. However there is a difference between having sin and sinning deliberately. In this I make a distinction between the condition of having sin and acting out of that sin. We read in scripture that it is possible to not sin through Christ if indeed our flesh is put to death with Christ so that we no longer walk after the flesh but after the Spirit of Christ. Being dead to the law of death sin has no power being that we are under grace.

Romans 6: 11-14 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord. Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof. Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God. For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.

1John 3:7-10, Dear children, don't let anyone lead you down the wrong path. Those who do what is right are holy, just as Christ is holy. 8 Those who do what is sinful belong to the devil. They are just like him. He has been sinning from the beginning. But the Son of God came to destroy the devil's work. Those who are born again because of what God has done will not keep on sinning. God's very nature remains in them. They can't go on sinning. They have been born again because of what God has done. Here is how you can tell the difference between the children of God and the children of the devil. Those who don't do what is right do not belong to God. Those who don't love their brothers and sisters do not belong to him either.

So now to answer your question directly concerning myself, and by no means do I mean to cast blame on anyone else, but I speak only for me. I am warm while others are cold. My stomach is full while others go hungry. My family has a house and sleep in beds while other families have no home and sleep under bridges. I have not sold all my possessions and given the proceeds to the poor. I am a sinner. And I give thanks to God that I think on these terms according to the conviction of the Holy Spirit. I am thankful also to God that my family is safe and provided for, but at the same time I grieve in my comfort. My hope is that I am saved through mercy.

Love Larry

I am greatly relieved in my heart to read this reply.... let us continue below! Please? Love Steven

[childeye]

A lie is sin and the Father of lies is satan and in the garden sin was present in the lie of the serpent

therefore satan had already fallen..

I do believe we are misunderstanding one another. I am referring to Satan's being cast out of heaven and you are reffering to his fall. I gave you scripture showing when he was cast out, after the death and resurrection of Christ. Regarding his fall. Satan had no Holy spirit, no Truth in him. He therefore was incapable of having a pure image of God. All he could ever do was lie. John 8:44,Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

Seeing how this is the beginnings of learning and truths are built precept upon precept

Isa 28:9-10

9 "Whom will he teach knowledge?

And whom will he make to understand the message?

Those just weaned from milk?

Those just drawn from the breasts?

10 For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept,

Line upon line, line upon line,

Here a little, there a little."

This is how I was taught, He taught me. John 6:45, It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me. 1Corinthians 2:12-13, Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God. Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.

you must return here and tear all else you have built after this and rebuild with this stone of truth in it's proper place! I fear you will not do this

because I read pride and false humility in your comments... I do not say this to be mean but you have elevated your own self above the

written Word of God!

I understand your concern Steven and I appreciate your intention. As I said above, God taught me, so I would not tear down what is undeniable Truth, nor could I. Everybody who knows Truth knows this. Because what He teaches is built precept upon precept, you are asking me to deny the existence of God, for this is the first and foremost Truth upon which all other Truth is built. You are wrong in your scrutiny of me. I did not tell you that I was taught by God and instructed through the Holy Spirit so as to conjure up jealousy in you, if that is why you perceive a pride and false humility. I truly believe all who are appointed to come to Christ are instructed by God even as is testified in John 6:45. Even as there is a Holy Spirit who instructs. Hebrews 8:10-11, For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people: And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.

How have I elevated myself above the written word? I have elevated the Author over the book of whom it testifies to. John 5: 39, Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.

John 1:1-5, In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. In him was life; and the life was the light of men. And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not. The Word is Spirit. Romans 2:29, But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God. Romans 7:6, But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter. 2 Corinthians 3:6, Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life. You see Steven, the bible testifies to the Spirit over the Letter, the living Word over the written, and so do I.

They stumble, being disobedient to the word, to which they also were appointed.

This Word is Spirit, not scripture, since many believed or disbelieved according to how they were appointed.

2 Tim 2:15

Be diligent to present yourself approved to God, a worker who does not need to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

Where Steven have I wrongly divided the Word of Truth? What scripture have I presented that was taken out of context?

Edited April 7, 2011 by childeye

[childeye]

Can you tell me how satans power came through the law?

Matthew 21:33-40, Hear another parable: There was a certain householder, which planted a vineyard, and hedged it round about, and digged a winepress in it, and built a tower, and let it out to husbandmen, and went into a far country:

34And when the time of the fruit drew near, he sent his servants to the husbandmen, that they might receive the fruits of it.

35And the husbandmen took his servants, and beat one, and killed another, and stoned another.

36Again, he sent other servants more than the first: and they did unto them likewise.

37But last of all he sent unto them his son, saying, They will reverence my son.

38But when the husbandmen saw the son, they said among themselves, This is the heir; come, let us kill him, and let us seize on his inheritance.

39And they caught him, and cast him out of the vineyard, and slew him.

40When the lord therefore of the vineyard cometh, what will he do unto those husbandmen?

[mike2]

Childeye,

In a strange way I think I understand what you are saying.

By God introducing the Law, satan can now be identified based on a median. So much of the Old Testament is based on satanic influence and it outlines what life without Christ is like.

The New Testament shows us what life with Christ is like.

Where the idea of the OT is satanic comes from it certainly didn't come from God. The entire OT is there to teach us how God wants us to act, act like someone He can call His child. We take the first books and show that man is not capable of ruling himself and how God set up guidelines, rules, commandments so we could walk in His grace. The NT are letters written to various people and congregations either chastising them for not behaving as they should as well as addressing many other issues. There is nothing new in the new testament that was not in the old or promised in the OT. Luicfer was there before man he is the one that God allowed to test man, which He knew would fail so God being the all loving, all encompassing Adonia who covers His people with His grace always layed it all out, God said if you do these things I will be your God and the books are showing how man sometimes walked in His ways and was blessed greatly or failed miserably and that caused God to scatter them to the nations. The whole bible tells of the fall of man and the redemption of man, if we did not have the OT the NT wouldn't make much sense, for instance James is written to the 12 tribes abroad, to the dispersed tribes, would people understand that God is restoring Israel by just reading the NT? Would anyone know when the signs and things to look for His return if not for the OT? After all God tells us specifically that He reveals the end in the beginning so how can the OT be satanically influenced if God set godly men to write His instruction and as we are told all scripture is given to us for our benefit and the apostles were talking not about the NT but the OT since the NT was not written or compiled.

Certainly satan has an influence on all generations if a person is not walking in God's light, no more so than today there is much more influence of satan today than when our ancestors were walking the earth. Your statement that the OT outlines what life was like without Messiah is kinda weird, they knew God, they had living breathing prophets who heard Gods voice, they knew there was a Messiah coming and anxiously awaited His arrival. If your statement is true then we are also living in OT times because we do not have a Messiah sitting on an earthly throne, we do not 'see' Him face to face, we are in the same position as the OT believers, waiting for our Messiah to come and bring us into His Kingdom.

shalom,

Mizz

Mizz

In no way did I say that the OT was Satanic!!!

When the Law was introduced there was a standard by which sin could be identified by all men.

The OT is full of stories of Satans influence on man and how he leads us to sin I am NOT saying that somehow Satan influenced the writing rather the writing is reporting Satans influence. It has to be made clear to man that his influence is in the world and that even with rules we are incapable of completely resisting that influence, we are totally helpless and need another way to come into the presence of God.

So I say much of the writings are based on the influence Satan has on us.

Like you said "The entire OT is there to teach us how God wants us to act, act like someone He can call His child." Without Satan how will we know how not to act?

I see in Childeye someone that is intelligent and trying to communicate his understanding in his way of speaking based on some abstract thinking, try to find the nuggets and encourage where the doctine is wrong.

I hear some good advice from others that are well versed and knowledgable, don't get defensive but look for the nuggets.

I think a lot can be learned if it is presented gently and we acknowledge where we agree.

Thats why I am here from time to time.

Which reminds me- off to bible study.

Peace and blessings

mike2