Why Choose Christianity?

[A Muslim]

Hi all

So as you are saying that works don't save us but only faith through Jesus, does this mean that there is no need to work, do good deeds and avoid sins? Does it mean that anyone can commit sins as long as he believes that Jesus will save him? Does it mean that a man who is believing that Jesus will save him and doing good deeds will be equal to a man who also believes in salvation through Jesus but he is not doing the good deeds the former man does?

Yes and no. Only faith in Jesus saves us. It means that nothing we do will earn us heaven, but does not mean we are not to do good works.

So what is the motivation for anyone who has faith in Jesus to work as this will earn him nothing in heaven?

Still I would like an answer to my question:

Does it mean that a man who is believing that Jesus will save him and doing good deeds will be equal to a man who also believes in salvation through Jesus but he is not doing the good deeds the former man does?

Btw, as a Muslim, I don't believe that I will go to Paradise by my works but by Allah's mercy, since we humans are so weak to do full righteous deeds and totally avoid sins, but at the same time we are asked to work and motivated by Paradise to work and do our best since work is the mirror of faith, besides, it differentiates between a strong believer and a weak believer in Paradise. So actually both faith and work are important, yes faith is more important but work is the mirror of faith.

[Isaiah 6:8]

So what is the motivation for anyone who has faith in Jesus to work as this will earn him nothing in heaven?

Still I would like an answer to my question:

Does it mean that a man who is believing that Jesus will save him and doing good deeds will be equal to a man who also believes in salvation through Jesus but he is not doing the good deeds the former man does?

Btw, as a Muslim, I don't believe that I will go to Paradise by my works but by Allah's mercy, since we humans are so weak to do full righteous deeds and totally avoid sins, but at the same time we are asked to work and motivated by Paradise to work and do our best since work is the mirror of faith, besides, it differentiates between a strong believer and a weak believer in Paradise. So actually both faith and work are important, yes faith is more important but work is the mirror of faith.

I will agree with what you said.

The difference and the motivation are this. One person works to be saved. This is their motivation. The other person, realizes that their works are as filthy rags, and cannot do enough righteous works to be saved. They accept the grace of God and as he changes their hear, makes them as Paul calls it a "New Creature" they out of the abundance of their heart, want to do the good works, and despise sin.

You see, from what I understand of Islam, is this, there is no assurance of salvation, no matter what good you do. Even if you lived a perfect life, and did all the Pillars of Islam, if Allah, were to not like you he would still condemn you. That is one of the biggest things that separate us in our beliefs. For a Christian, they know they have an assurance of Salvation.

[A Muslim]

The difference and the motivation are this. One person works to be saved. This is their motivation. The other person, realizes that their works are as filthy rags, and cannot do enough righteous works to be saved. They accept the grace of God and as he changes their hear, makes them as Paul calls it a "New Creature" they out of the abundance of their heart, want to do the good works, and despise sin.

So if there are 2 people who (realize that their works are as filthy rags, and cannot do enough righteous works to be saved. They accept the grace of God and as he changes their hear,....etc.) One of these two made more works and less sins than the other, will they be equal in Heaven?

You see, from what I understand of Islam, is this, there is no assurance of salvation, no matter what good you do. Even if you lived a perfect life, and did all the Pillars of Islam, if Allah, were to not like you he would still condemn you. That is one of the biggest things that separate us in our beliefs. For a Christian, they know they have an assurance of Salvation.

Of course no one has assurance of salvation, because if someone is sure on Earth that he will go to Heaven, then he will not be keen on doing good deeds and avoiding sins. But in Islam, there are lots of promises from God that whoever believes in God, and does good deeds for the sake of God that he will surely go to Paradise. So God told us the way to Paradise and told us that whoever will do them will go to Paradise. I am trying to obey God, have the right belief in Him and obey Him loyally, but at the same time I am afraid not to be loyal to God. For example I repent to God from my sins, I believe that God told me that who fully repents to Allah, that Allah will accept him. What I am not assured of is that my repentance is full or that it's mixed with a bad intention.

Allah at the same time is fair, and He told us that He will be at what we think of Him, if I think of God in a good way that He will forgive me and send me to Paradise, backed up with my real faith in Allah, then He will be at what I think.

[Isaiah 6:8]

So if there are 2 people who (realize that their works are as filthy rags, and cannot do enough righteous works to be saved. They accept the grace of God and as he changes their hear,....etc.) One of these two made more works and less sins than the other, will they be equal in Heaven?

In heaven one will have more rewards, but not be greater. Just as if one person spent a lifetime putting money in savings, and another only does it for a few years. They will be both equal in Gods eyes, one will however still have more treasures saved up.

And this only if you do the works, to please God and only God, and not in the open.

Matthew 6:16-20 (New King James Version)

Fasting to Be Seen Only by God

16 "Moreover, when you fast, do not be like the hypocrites, with a sad countenance. For they disfigure their faces that they may appear to men to be fasting. Assuredly, I say to you, they have their reward. 17 But you, when you fast, anoint your head and wash your face, 18 so that you do not appear to men to be fasting, but to your Father who is in the secret place; and your Father who sees in secret will reward you openly.

Lay Up Treasures in Heaven

19 "Do not lay up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moth and rust destroy and where thieves break in and steal; 20 but lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust destroys and where thieves do not break in and steal.

Of course no one has assurance of salvation, because if someone is sure on Earth that he will go to Heaven, then he will not be keen on doing good deeds and avoiding sins. But in Islam, there are lots of promises from God that whoever believes in God, and does good deeds for the sake of God that he will surely go to Paradise. So God told us the way to Paradise and told us that whoever will do them will go to Paradise. I am trying to obey God, have the right belief in Him and obey Him loyally, but at the same time I am afraid not to be loyal to God. For example I repent to God from my sins, I believe that God told me that who fully repents to Allah, that Allah will accept him. What I am not assured of is that my repentance is full or that it's mixed with a bad intention.

Allah at the same time is fair, and He told us that He will be at what we think of Him, if I think of God in a good way that He will forgive me and send me to Paradise, backed up with my real faith in Allah, then He will be at what I think.

Here is where I belive you are wrong, I have an assurance of salvation, I need not my good deeds to outweigh my bad ones. I know that All my sins, past present and future are forgiven. I have been forgiven much, and so I love much. Out of my heart of love, I continue to do good.

Also their is another difference. We, Christians, believe, that our old self, our sinful evil nature, dies, and is replaced by a new creation, a new creation, that at its very core, wants to do good, as God is good.

Doing good is a result of the change not the cause.

[A Muslim]

So if there are 2 people who (realize that their works are as filthy rags, and cannot do enough righteous works to be saved. They accept the grace of God and as he changes their hear,....etc.) One of these two made more works and less sins than the other, will they be equal in Heaven?

In heaven one will have more rewards, but not be greater. Just as if one person spent a lifetime putting money in savings, and another only does it for a few years. They will be both equal in Gods eyes, one will however still have more treasures saved up.

And this only if you do the works, to please God and only God, and not in the open.

Rewards like what?

Here is where I belive you are wrong, I have an assurance of salvation, I need not my good deeds to outweigh my bad ones. I know that All my sins, past present and future are forgiven. I have been forgiven much, and so I love much. Out of my heart of love, I continue to do good.

Well, I see that doing good deeds to overweight bad deeds is better than having a guarantee for salvation just because of faith, as it's a fair standard to judge people so that someone with many good deeds shouldn't be treated as someone with less deeds or more sins (I am talking about believers who have faith in God and work out of their faith). Allah is fair.

So as you believe that all your sins including future sins are forgiven. What is the motive you have to stop sins?

Actually I believe that if I made a sin and repent to God faithfully, then God will forgive me, and this will be a motive for me not to sin, because I may not repent. But if I believe that all my sins are already forgiven, then whatever sins I commit, as long as I believe that Jesus died for me, I know they are forgiven, so I have no motive to stop the sins, and I shouldn't be worried as everything is already made up.

Also their is another difference. We, Christians, believe, that our old self, our sinful evil nature, dies, and is replaced by a new creation, a new creation, that at its very core, wants to do good, as God is good.

And do you see that Christians don't sin? Or that none of them has evil nature?

Doing good is a result of the change not the cause.

Of course you are right, but the question here is, how could a small change and a big change be equal in God's eyes?

[Guest shiloh357]

Hi all

So as you are saying that works don't save us but only faith through Jesus, does this mean that there is no need to work, do good deeds and avoid sins? Does it mean that anyone can commit sins as long as he believes that Jesus will save him? Does it mean that a man who is believing that Jesus will save him and doing good deeds will be equal to a man who also believes in salvation through Jesus but he is not doing the good deeds the former man does?

Chrsitianity is about inward transofrmation. We are indewlt by God's Holy Spirit and we are empowered to live for Christ. In addition, because we are changed on the inside our obedience is from the heart. We are "created in Christ for good works" when we are saved. Our good works demonstrate our salvation. They are not the path to salvation. Those who are truly born again in Christ do not look for ways to sin.

In Christianity, good works are the product of salvation, not the way salvation is achieved. We have eternal life now. It is not something we earn by offestting the bad with the good. For one thing, no one knows when they have done enough. No one knows how much bad must be offset, so there is no way to know or to be guaranteed that when you stand before God, that you have done enough. You might work really, really hard at being "good" only to find out that all your efforts were not enough.

God's grace is not a free pass to sin. The Bible teaches that grace teaches us to live holy godly lives with a view to Christ's return. Grace is the expectiation of holy living and that we will be a people zealous for good works.

I am not waiting for salvation. I have it now, according to the Bible. It is a present day possession and it guaranteed because I have been sealed by the Holy Spirit and He is the guarantee of my inheritence.

[Isaiah 6:8]

Rewards like what?

Does not really say.

Well, I see that doing good deeds to overweight bad deeds is better than having a guarantee for salvation just because of faith, as it's a fair standard to judge people so that someone with many good deeds shouldn't be treated as someone with less deeds or more sins (I am talking about believers who have faith in God and work out of their faith). Allah is fair.

Well, as I already posted, that its so that none can boast. I belive that man being able to "work his way into heaven" Takes away from Gods power.

If we could be good enough for heaven, why do we need God?.

So as you believe that all your sins including future sins are forgiven. What is the motive you have to stop sins?

Actually I believe that if I made a sin and repent to God faithfully, then God will forgive me, and this will be a motive for me not to sin, because I may not repent. But if I believe that all my sins are already forgiven, then whatever sins I commit, as long as I believe that Jesus died for me, I know they are forgiven, so I have no motive to stop the sins, and I shouldn't be worried as everything is already made up.

We still are called to confess our sins and repent. In other words turn away. Here is the difference. A person who has accepted Jesus as the one who cleanses us from our sin, is like a child learning to walk. The child may stumble and even fall, but they get up again. That is how Christians are, yes they sin, they make mistakes, they fall down, God just wants them to get up and keep going and try not to fall again. However if a child throws themselves down in a fit of rage screaming and kicking, is that not a different story?

And do you see that Christians don't sin? Or that none of them has evil nature?

I belive that they are born into a new life, one where they still need to learn to walk as I have already mentioned. The evil nature is something that is part of being human, but when we die it falls off of us and our true nature as a new being comes.

Of course you are right, but the question here is, how could a small change and a big change be equal in God's eyes?

He does the change. It is his to change, and its equal in so much as if you had two children drowning, one only a meter from shore and one 10 meters from shore, it does not matter that one only had to come a short distance to be saved and the other a long distance, the important thing is that they both are saved.

Same thing, it does not matter how much he changes to bring you to him, what matters is he does, because he loves you.

He loves you because you are his child, and not because of anything you do or do not do..

That is the difference, Allah loves you due to your works, and you hope your good works are enough.

Jesus, loves you no matter what and wants to save you, no matter how deep you may be drowning.

The thing is this. If God is perfect, 100% then he can not allow any sin no matter how small in his presence. So if you have ever sinned, even just once, then you cannot be in his presence. Its not a matter of how much good you do. Its like having a glass of Water, you can not drink it if it has even one drop of deadly poison in it. Its not matter of the rest of the water being good.

You see, we see it as Jesus making it so that we are pure, as if he removed all trace of the poison first, so that the water is pure.

Thats the difference.

[nebula]

Hello

So if there are 2 people who (realize that their works are as filthy rags, and cannot do enough righteous works to be saved. They accept the grace of God and as he changes their hear,....etc.) One of these two made more works and less sins than the other, will they be equal in Heaven?

In heaven one will have more rewards, but not be greater.

Rewards like what?

Why does it matter?

We do not work for the rewards. Doing good for selfish reasons is not what the Lord wants from us. He wants us to be vessels of love. Love does not do good for the gain of a reward. If love is not the reason for doing good works, then they are not counted as good.

1 Cor. 13 is a good reference for that.

Of course no one has assurance of salvation, because if someone is sure on Earth that he will go to Heaven, then he will not be keen on doing good deeds and avoiding sins

1 What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin so that grace may increase? 2 May it never be! How shall we who died to sin still live in it? 3 Or do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus have been baptized into His death ? 4 Therefore we have been buried with Him through baptism into death, so that as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, so we too might walk in newness of life. 5 For if we have become united with Him in the likeness of His death, certainly we shall also be in the likeness of His resurrection, 6 knowing this, that our old self was crucified with Him, in order that our body of sin might be done away with, so that we would no longer be slaves to sin ; 7 for he who has died is freed from sin.

8 Now if we have died with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with Him, 9 knowing that Christ, having been raised from the dead, is never to die again ; death no longer is master over Him. 10 For the death that He died, He died to sin once for all ; but the life that He lives, He lives to God. 11 Even so consider yourselves to be dead to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus.

12 Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body so that you obey its lusts, 13 and do not go on presenting the members of your body to sin as instruments of unrighteousness ; but present yourselves to God as those alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness to God. 14 For sin shall not be master over you, for you are not under law but under grace.

15 What then ? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace ? May it never be! 16 Do you not know that when you present yourselves to someone as slaves for obedience, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin resulting in death, or of obedience resulting in righteousness ? 17 But thanks be to God that though you were slaves of sin, you became obedient from the heart to that form of teaching to which you were committed, 18 and having been freed from sin, you became slaves of righteousness. 19 I am speaking in human terms because of the weakness of your flesh. For just as you presented your members as slaves to impurity and to lawlessness, resulting in further lawlessness, so now present your members as slaves to righteousness, resulting in sanctification. 20 For when you were slaves of sin, you were free in regard to righteousness. 21 Therefore what benefit were you then deriving from the things of which you are now ashamed ? For the outcome of those things is death.

22 But now having been freed from sin and enslaved to God, you derive your benefit, resulting in sanctification, and the outcome, eternal life. 23 For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord. (Romans 6)

So as you believe that all your sins including future sins are forgiven. What is the motive you have to stop sins?

Love.

You see the Lord does not want an outward show, He wants a transformed heart. And He is the one who works this transformation in us. The only thing we have to do is cooperate with Him.

Salvation is not about going to Heaven. Salvation is about being in communion with the Father through the Lord Jesus. We are saved from our sins so that we can be in relationship with Father God. We call Him Father, because that is what He is! And like any child, we want to do good because we want to please our Daddy. Obedience is the result of love, not the result of fear.

but at the same time I am afraid not to be loyal to God.

16 We have come to know and have believed the love which God has for us. God is love, and the one who abides in love abides in God, and God abides in him. 17 By this, love is perfected with us, so that we may have confidence in the day of judgment ; because as He is, so also are we in this world. 18 There is no fear in love ; but perfect love casts out fear, because fear involves punishment, and the one who fears is not perfected in love. 19 We love, because He first loved us. 20 If someone says, "I love God," and hates his brother, he is a liar ; for the one who does not love his brother whom he has seen, cannot love God whom he has not seen. 21 And this commandment we have from Him, that the one who loves God should love his brother also. (1 John 4)

And do you see that Christians don't sin? Or that none of them has evil nature?

14 For we know that the Law is spiritual, but I am of flesh, sold into bondage to sin. 15 For what I am doing, I do not understand ; for I am not practicing what I would like to do, but I am doing the very thing I hate. 16 But if I do the very thing I do not want to do, I agree with the Law, confessing that the Law is good. 17 So now, no longer am I the one doing it, but sin which dwells in me. 18 For I know that nothing good dwells in me, that is, in my flesh ; for the willing is present in me, but the doing of the good is not. 19 For the good that I want, I do not do, but I practice the very evil that I do not want. 20 But if I am doing the very thing I do not want, I am no longer the one doing it, but sin which dwells in me. 21 I find then the principle that evil is present in me, the one who wants to do good. 22 For I joyfully concur with the law of God in the inner man, 23 but I see a different law in the members of my body, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin which is in my members. 24 Wretched man that I am! Who will set me free from the body of this death ? 25 Thanks be to God through Jesus Christ our Lord ! So then, on the one hand I myself with my mind am serving the law of God, but on the other, with my flesh the law of sin.

1 Therefore there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. 2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and of death. 3 For what the Law could not do, weak as it was through the flesh, God did: sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and as an offering for sin, He condemned sin in the flesh, 4 so that the requirement of the Law might be fulfilled in us, who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. 5 For those who are according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who are according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. 6 For the mind set on the flesh is death, but the mind set on the Spirit is life and peace, 7 because the mind set on the flesh is hostile toward God ; for it does not subject itself to the law of God, for it is not even able to do so, 8 and those who are in the flesh cannot please God. 9 However, you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. But if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Him. 10 If Christ is in you, though the body is dead because of sin, yet the spirit is alive because of righteousness. 11 But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ Jesus from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who dwells in you. 12 So then, brethren, we are under obligation, not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh - 13 for if you are living according to the flesh, you must die ; but if by the Spirit you are putting to death the deeds of the body, you will live. 14 For all who are being led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God. 15 For you have not received a spirit of slavery leading to fear again, but you have received a spirit of adoption as sons by which we cry out, "Abba ! Father !" 16 The Spirit Himself testifies with our spirit that we are children of God, 17 and if children, heirs also, heirs of God and fellow heirs with Christ, if indeed we suffer with Him so that we may also be glorified with Him.

(Romans 7-8)

Of course you are right, but the question here is, how could a small change and a big change be equal in God's eyes?

Any change to be more like Him is pleasing in His eyes.

God isn't sitting on His throne with a sin calculator adding and subtracting goodness or badness points towards us or against us. He just wants to lavish His love on us, and for us to return such love to Him. And like any parent, He wants His children to love each other.

[Littlelambseativy]

In reality of you accept Jesus, the Son of God as your Saviour you do not have to do anything.

Jesus died for my sin. He completed the sacrifice that I could not do. I, being imperfect could not pay the price that the Father requested. Jesus, the Son of the Father, was pure and sinless He and He only could pay the price to redeem me from Hell. The Father requires NOTHING from me. What could I offer the One who created the Universe? What could I pay? Because there is no sum for me to pay for such a sacrifice, I would not be able to enter heaven. That is why Jesus' sacrifice - the sacrifice of the sinless Lamb of God, was paid for me. Do I need to do anything? NO. Is there anything that could equal that sacrifice? NO. It was paid once for all by Jesus. Once I accept Jesus and His sacrifice and become one of His children do I WANT to do to let Him know that I love Him for all that He did for me so that I could enter heaven? YES. That is the only reason that we do good works because we love Him.

It is much the same as when you give your child something that you know that that child would like - do you attach a caveat to your child receiving it? NO. you give it FREELY without strings attached. Does your child want to do something to please you in return? OF COURSE! That is the only reason that we do good works. Not because we HAVE to do them. Salvation is free to those who will accept it.

A great saying is this -

I would rather live

my life as if there is a God,

And die to find out

there isn't, than live my life

As if there isn't,

and die to find out there is.

[A Muslim]

Rewards like what?

Does not really say.

So what is your evidence that a man with more works will have more rewards from God?

Well, as I already posted, that its so that none can boast. I belive that man being able to "work his way into heaven" Takes away from Gods power.

If we could be good enough for heaven, why do we need God?.

Well, we can apply the same concept on faith, do you think that you attained your faith by your own or that was a grace from your God?

We still are called to confess our sins and repent. In other words turn away. Here is the difference. A person who has accepted Jesus as the one who cleanses us from our sin, is like a child learning to walk. The child may stumble and even fall, but they get up again. That is how Christians are, yes they sin, they make mistakes, they fall down, God just wants them to get up and keep going and try not to fall again. However if a child throws themselves down in a fit of rage screaming and kicking, is that not a different story?

The same thing applies on Muslims, and Israelites before Jesus, so what did Christianity add?

Eze 18:21"But if a wicked person turns away from all his sins that he has committed and keeps all my statutes and does what is just and right, he shall surely live; he shall not die.

Eze 18:22None of the transgressions that he has committed shall be remembered against him; for the righteousness that he has done he shall live.

Same thing, it does not matter how much he changes to bring you to him, what matters is he does, because he loves you.

He loves you because you are his child, and not because of anything you do or do not do..

This example here is not applicable as it illustrates the case before repentence not after it, and we both agree that those who repent God will forgive them, but I am talking about the case after repentance where one has more works and less sins than the other.

The thing is this. If God is perfect, 100% then he can not allow any sin no matter how small in his presence. So if you have ever sinned, even just once, then you cannot be in his presence. Its not a matter of how much good you do. Its like having a glass of Water, you can not drink it if it has even one drop of deadly poison in it. Its not matter of the rest of the water being good.

Well, it depends on whether the man sins due to his weakness where he sins and knows that he is sinning but he is weak to overcome it or a man who sins and rejects the truth. The first one can be excused, the second is not.

You see, we see it as Jesus making it so that we are pure, as if he removed all trace of the poison first, so that the water is pure.

Well, I don't see Jesus death added anything, the above verse in Ezekiel is enough

I will answer the other posts later