childeye Posted May 21, 2011 Group: Senior Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 5 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 517 Content Per Day: 0.11 Reputation: 20 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/16/2011 Status: Offline Share Posted May 21, 2011 I am not a christian but i can see how wrong this is. We have freedom of religion here, but that was put in place to prevent a single national religion such as the UK has. I would tell the muslims wanting their book read in our churches to show that our book would be given the same respect in Iran. I do not advocate for religion seeing that there is only one God. Ther are therefore only two spiritual kingdoms of light and dark. If you are not in one you are in the other, no matter what religion you are. Those in the light are willing to sacrifice themselves to save others, such is their Love. Those in the darkness are willing to sacrifice others to save themselves, such is their love. Our book against their book is a stupid war fought by the carnal minded. Huh?? I have no idea what you are talking about. I am not a christian and the freedom of religion was set up to prevent a national church, and i think reading the kuran in church is wrong, and said so with the comparison of "would Iran allow our bible in their church". I don't know what all that about light means. I never said "our book against their book", but i think maybe you did. You said all that about light and dark, so i assume you mean me, and/or the muslims, are in that dark? You made it "our book against theirs", not me. I can see you have no idea what I am talking about. That's fair enough. Would you like to know? Do you care to know? Do you believe in treating others as you would want to be treated? Do you believe in such a notion as being True and worthy of the term knowledge? If you do then you understand the term light, for light is knowledge of the Truth and darkness is ignorance of it. Would Iran allow a bible in their church? If they do not, shall we be like them? We would condemn ourselves before God as just like them. Is this what you are advocating? So you see you are either ruled by Truth or ruled by ignorance of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isaiah 6:8 Posted May 21, 2011 Group: Royal Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 426 Topics Per Day: 0.07 Content Count: 3,633 Content Per Day: 0.58 Reputation: 222 Days Won: 13 Joined: 03/23/2007 Status: Offline Birthday: 08/26/1978 Share Posted May 21, 2011 He did not tolerate sin. He took the punishment but he did not tolerate. I will not debate with you on the other subject yet again you refuse to listen so no point. As for the Word I grow weary of you twisting it. As you know, I have asked how I twist what you call the Word and I call scripture, and you have never any proof to go with your accusation. How you claim I will not listen is not understood since I earnestly desire to hear. Nonetheless I will not beg for your attention to such things if it be unsavory for you. I simply sought unity and peace in Christ. Jesus did not tolerate hypocrisy, he considered sin a sickness and he a doctor. May God bless you and your house always and I sincerely mean that. I call it the word and scripture why you pointed that out is beyond me. I have repeatedly posted evidence over and over where you have twisted or took scripture wildly out of context you ignor it. Even stating that Christ tolerates sin is not scriptural. But you twist the "Scripture" as you put it to fit your ideas. I use the word "WORD" primarily be ause I am using my tiny iPod keyboard and it's shorter to use. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted May 21, 2011 Share Posted May 21, 2011 What a lot of people, particularly well-meaning Christians, miss is that this is part of the Muslim plan to Islamicize America. They realize that they cannot conquer us militarily. So, they are doing it demographically. They are using our freedoms against us. They are building mosques, but mosques are not to the Muslim what Churches and Synagogues are to Christians and Jews. A mosque is a statement of dominion. A mosque in the Muslim mentality, means that this area, the property the mosques inhabits is Muslim territory. The Mosque they are wanting to build at the 9/11 site is a victory mosque, named after the Muslim victory over the Christians in Cordoba, Spain. Every mosque that is built is part of claiming more American land for Islam. The reading of the Koran in Churches is more about getting Islam into America and they are infiltrating the Military chaplainship, the chaplainship of our prison systems, and in our universities and before long, we will see our high schools and middle schools required to provide Muslim curriculum to our students, in the name of "multi-culturalism." They are not interested in inter-faith dialogue, and most of the chrisitans who are trying to tolerant will find that they have been completely naive about the intentions of the Muslim community toward us, but they will find out when it is too late and Islam has fully integrated itself to the point it cannot be removed. Islam is about conquering and making the world Dar al Islam. They will not be satisfied until Islam is the only acceptable religion on earth. Islam is a disease. It is a poisonous, insidious contagion that has no place in the United States. It is an deadly infection that is spreading in our country and it needs to be dealt with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smalcald Posted May 21, 2011 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 32 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 5,258 Content Per Day: 0.76 Reputation: 42 Days Won: 3 Joined: 06/16/2005 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/22/1960 Share Posted May 21, 2011 No faith that denies Christ as Lord should ever be allowed within a Christian Church. I mean think of the millions of Christians who have died at the hands of these people for simply proclaiming the Truth of the death and resurrection of Christ. We are told specifically in scripture that we must only worship with those who share our beliefs. It is not judgmental or mean. We can be nice to people who are not believers in fact we are commanded to do so, but we cannot deny Christ, which is what we do when we allow an Imam to read the Koran in a place of worship for believers in Christ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jodetoad Posted May 21, 2011 Group: Junior Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 8 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 86 Content Per Day: 0.02 Reputation: 4 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/14/2011 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/06/1953 Share Posted May 21, 2011 Seems to me that 1 or 2 hours in a week is not enough to concentrate on Christianity, much less add in Islam. Churches should attend to their purpose, and let us decide as individuals what we want or need to learn about Islam. We don't need to prove anything to Muslims. If anything, I'd like to see some evidence from THEM that they are not supporting the jihadis. I don't assume all Muslims are extremist, but really, if somebody should be proving something, it's not Christians... I read a fair amount of the Koran. Maybe I'm dim, it started seeming very negative and repetitive, so I didn't make it to the end. Maybe that's the best part... My prejudices were getting in the way, too. As a female, the 3rd-class citizenship of Muslim women bothers me, and other stuff too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest SDGS Posted May 21, 2011 Share Posted May 21, 2011 (edited) I am not a christian but i can see how wrong this is. We have freedom of religion here, but that was put in place to prevent a single national religion such as the UK has. I would tell the muslims wanting their book read in our churches to show that our book would be given the same respect in Iran. I do not advocate for religion seeing that there is only one God. Ther are therefore only two spiritual kingdoms of light and dark. If you are not in one you are in the other, no matter what religion you are. Those in the light are willing to sacrifice themselves to save others, such is their Love. Those in the darkness are willing to sacrifice others to save themselves, such is their love. Our book against their book is a stupid war fought by the carnal minded. Huh?? I have no idea what you are talking about. I am not a christian and the freedom of religion was set up to prevent a national church, and i think reading the kuran in church is wrong, and said so with the comparison of "would Iran allow our bible in their church". I don't know what all that about light means. I never said "our book against their book", but i think maybe you did. You said all that about light and dark, so i assume you mean me, and/or the muslims, are in that dark? You made it "our book against theirs", not me. I can see you have no idea what I am talking about. That's fair enough. Would you like to know? Do you care to know? Do you believe in treating others as you would want to be treated? Do you believe in such a notion as being True and worthy of the term knowledge? If you do then you understand the term light, for light is knowledge of the Truth and darkness is ignorance of it. Would Iran allow a bible in their church? If they do not, shall we be like them? We would condemn ourselves before God as just like them. Is this what you are advocating? So you see you are either ruled by Truth or ruled by ignorance of it. Again, huh? I was accused and defended myself. Obviously I have no bible knowledge, which was why I first came here. But then I run into folks like you. You may not intend it but you come across as "I am so smart and use big religion words and you are so stupid and a dirty sinner so why are you here". Just saying how it comes across. Edited May 21, 2011 by SDGS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
childeye Posted May 21, 2011 Group: Senior Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 5 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 517 Content Per Day: 0.11 Reputation: 20 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/16/2011 Status: Offline Share Posted May 21, 2011 (edited) He did not tolerate sin. He took the punishment but he did not tolerate. I will not debate with you on the other subject yet again you refuse to listen so no point. As for the Word I grow weary of you twisting it. As you know, I have asked how I twist what you call the Word and I call scripture, and you have never any proof to go with your accusation. How you claim I will not listen is not understood since I earnestly desire to hear. Nonetheless I will not beg for your attention to such things if it be unsavory for you. I simply sought unity and peace in Christ. Jesus did not tolerate hypocrisy, he considered sin a sickness and he a doctor. May God bless you and your house always and I sincerely mean that. I call it the word and scripture why you pointed that out is beyond me. I have repeatedly posted evidence over and over where you have twisted or took scripture wildly out of context you ignor it. Even stating that Christ tolerates sin is not scriptural. But you twist the "Scripture" as you put it to fit your ideas. I use the word "WORD" primarily be ause I am using my tiny iPod keyboard and it's shorter to use. Jesus forgave sin and considered it sickness. He died for our sins and condemned no one. That is the gospel not my ideas, it's in the scriptures, I twist nothing. I procliam the Truth and you stand against me without being able to say how I am wrong. You've never presented any evidence except where I used one bad term which I retracted upon correction. You also presented different translations of scripture which never dismissed my point that God formed the light and created darkness. To you it had to be man or Satan that created darkness. To you it would be inconceivable that God would create darkness, I understand that. You find it objectionable that God would create evil and cause man to experience it. Though I doubt you would find fault with God creating everything good and have man experience that. Yet God made the tree of the knowledge of good and evil . It was not man or Satan who invented the bad half of that tree. Still God warned us not to eat of it, but we trusted Satan over God and here we are arguing the validity of it being our deliberate choice or whether we were duped. For if we knowingly did what we did I would agree our will is free from the get go and we are all worthy of blame in righteous judgment. But believing that had we known the Truth we would have trusted God and would have never defied God without being tricked by the devil, I find plausible reason to excuse the condition of our sin on the fact that we were ignorant and that this is therefore the righteous judgment. I favor mercy for man but yet understand that the unmerciful will not receive mercy. You seem to not favor mercy in saying you will not tolerate sin though you are a sinner. This is the hypocrisy of the Pharisees whom Jesus contended with and who crucified him. You may think you're defending the Truth, but you need to sit back and consider that perhaps you are wrong and God has a purpose for evil, or darkness or calamity, or whatever translation you want to call it. The scripture says that God gave men stomachs so that we would thank Him for our food. Perhaps darkness is necessary so that we might properly esteem the light. He gave Job over to calamity though Job did nothing to deserve it. God is above us and we are in no position to question His motives as we did in the Garden under the influence of Satan. I do not find anything I've said here twisting any scripture. You are defending freewill theology claiming men are only free if they can choose for themselves and be their own master. Well said, but I am saying the only freewill is one that is grounded in the Truth where his choice is made out of knowledge not ignorance. And therefore does not consider the option to disobey God as freedom, Who is the source of all knowledge . See the prodigal son. If you will recall, this all began by you trying to prove love cannot exist without the option of denying it. I understand your intent. You feel love is given freely or it is not love. The word free is misguided, and loaded with semantics unless you also maintain that hate must also be given freely or hate would not exist. Is hate freely given? I think not. I find Love is sacrificing of ones self and therefore is not a choice but a Spiritual goodness that resides in men through grace. It is unimaginable that one could deny one's self by aquiescing to one's self. I still maintain that God will still exist even if you don't believe in Him. You will be who doesn't exist by not believing. God is Love and He will be there whether you want Him or not, whether you admit it or not. Only if He hardens your heart and departs His Spirit from you, will you be able to not feel Love, but then by your will you will not be able to conjure Him up again. That is what it means to esteem Him as God and us as creation. I do not wish to contend with you. I hope you note I am trying to be as open and forthright as possible without compromising the power of the Gospel. With all humility I would seek your earnest consideration of what I am trying to convey to you. Edited May 21, 2011 by childeye Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nebula Posted May 21, 2011 Group: Royal Member Followers: 10 Topic Count: 5,823 Topics Per Day: 0.76 Content Count: 45,870 Content Per Day: 5.95 Reputation: 1,897 Days Won: 83 Joined: 03/22/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/19/1970 Share Posted May 21, 2011 My opinion is we are looking at this from the wrong angle. Granted, as an intellectually-oriented person, I can regard "learning about" something as separate from "learning" something. Is it sin to learn about the Koran in church? If the intent is to understand the enemy (the evil spirit behind Islam, not the people) for the sake of spiritual warfare (intercession, evangelism), then I personally do not see this as a problem. Since "we" are the Temple of God and not the church building, learning about the Koran at home is no different than learning it in a church building, and vice versa. But, if the intent is to unify in brotherhood with the religion - no way! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
childeye Posted May 21, 2011 Group: Senior Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 5 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 517 Content Per Day: 0.11 Reputation: 20 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/16/2011 Status: Offline Share Posted May 21, 2011 (edited) I am not a christian but i can see how wrong this is. We have freedom of religion here, but that was put in place to prevent a single national religion such as the UK has. I would tell the muslims wanting their book read in our churches to show that our book would be given the same respect in Iran. I do not advocate for religion seeing that there is only one God. Ther are therefore only two spiritual kingdoms of light and dark. If you are not in one you are in the other, no matter what religion you are. Those in the light are willing to sacrifice themselves to save others, such is their Love. Those in the darkness are willing to sacrifice others to save themselves, such is their love. Our book against their book is a stupid war fought by the carnal minded. Huh?? I have no idea what you are talking about. I am not a christian and the freedom of religion was set up to prevent a national church, and i think reading the kuran in church is wrong, and said so with the comparison of "would Iran allow our bible in their church". I don't know what all that about light means. I never said "our book against their book", but i think maybe you did. You said all that about light and dark, so i assume you mean me, and/or the muslims, are in that dark? You made it "our book against theirs", not me. I can see you have no idea what I am talking about. That's fair enough. Would you like to know? Do you care to know? Do you believe in treating others as you would want to be treated? Do you believe in such a notion as being True and worthy of the term knowledge? If you do then you understand the term light, for light is knowledge of the Truth and darkness is ignorance of it. Would Iran allow a bible in their church? If they do not, shall we be like them? We would condemn ourselves before God as just like them. Is this what you are advocating? So you see you are either ruled by Truth or ruled by ignorance of it. Again, huh? I was accused and defended myself. Obviously I have no bible knowledge, which was why I first came here. But then I run into folks like you. You may not intend it but you come across as "I am so smart and use big religion words and you are so stupid and a dirty sinner so why are you here". Just saying how it comes across. I appreciate your candid comments. I will endeavour to not come across that way if at all possible. It is somewhat difficult to teach someone anything if they regard you as thinking you are better than them by presuming to teach them something. I cannot help the extent of my vocabulary any more than you can. I will not hold it against you and I hope you won't hold it against me. Such divisiveness is what we as Christians call the spirit of Satan working in man and moving him to hate one another over essentially nothing. This spirit specializes in finding fault where there is none, hence under such a spirit man is able to find fault with even God Himself. Under such a spirit we always complain about what is missing and never are thankful for what is there. It is in fact a selfish spirit that focuses on me,me,me,me,me. I will therefore say first and foremost, I am not better than you in any way unless you count that as thinking I'm better than you for thinking I'm not better than you, a false humility. No I am sincere. We are all drty sinners here, or were at one time, but made clean through a most excellent and Loving way. A beautiful yet sorrowful way. And this would be by the death of one man who was God made flesh and suffered for our sakes so as to defeat this spirit that I speak about above. It is therefore not becoming of me to accuse anyone so that they need feel defensive, and I apologize for doing so. I would only remind you that I was defending those who out of a gesture of peace were willing to read out of the Koran in their congregations. Not that I condone Islam or it's teachings, but because the Truth cannot be conquered by the things written therein. For the Truth is Love and Love is the Spirit of God. I will hope you inquire of me about this Jesus and that you may honor me with the chance to offer for your consideration answers to any questions you may have. Edited May 21, 2011 by childeye Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
childeye Posted May 21, 2011 Group: Senior Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 5 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 517 Content Per Day: 0.11 Reputation: 20 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/16/2011 Status: Offline Share Posted May 21, 2011 My opinion is we are looking at this from the wrong angle. Granted, as an intellectually-oriented person, I can regard "learning about" something as separate from "learning" something. Is it sin to learn about the Koran in church? If the intent is to understand the enemy (the evil spirit behind Islam, not the people) for the sake of spiritual warfare (intercession, evangelism), then I personally do not see this as a problem. Since "we" are the Temple of God and not the church building, learning about the Koran at home is no different than learning it in a church building, and vice versa. But, if the intent is to unify in brotherhood with the religion - no way! I fully appreciate this view. Muslims are much more open to the Gospel when you can quote out of the Koran and identify for them the problems contained therein that upon examination are hypocritical. Once they acknowledge the blantant hypocrisy, they then will question their commitment to the conviction that God wrote this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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