Believer112 Posted June 25, 2011 Group: Senior Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 39 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 540 Content Per Day: 0.11 Reputation: 32 Days Won: 3 Joined: 09/06/2010 Status: Offline Birthday: 05/29/1960 Share Posted June 25, 2011 I believe these things will happen on the Day of the Lord. . . . If this is so, then who were the churches Jesus spoke these things to? The cities those churches belonged to no longer exist. Rev 2: 7 Whoever has ears, let them hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To the one who is victorious, I will give the right to eat from the tree of life, which is in the paradise of God. I believe the warning to the churches then apply to the churches of today. The church of Laodicea seems like a lot of churches today. Or it could be my imagination. So, when He told the church in Ephesus He would remove their lampstand, He was not referring to them? Yes to Ephesus and chrches today , but I believe there is a symbolic meaning for lampstand and i'm not smart enough to figure it out yet. Is this lampstand the menorah? mizzy or candice might have more info on the menorah, I know i'ts complicated. Also lampstand is mentioned in Rev 11:4 and my NIV study bible says it's the Spirit of the Lord (Zec 4). If it is the Spirit of the Lord couldn't He remove His Spirit from a church today? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldzimm Posted June 25, 2011 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 85 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 1,874 Content Per Day: 0.34 Reputation: 348 Days Won: 12 Joined: 03/10/2009 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/08/1955 Share Posted June 25, 2011 I believe these things will happen on the Day of the Lord. . . . If this is so, then who were the churches Jesus spoke these things to? The cities those churches belonged to no longer exist. Rev 2: 7 Whoever has ears, let them hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To the one who is victorious, I will give the right to eat from the tree of life, which is in the paradise of God. I believe the warning to the churches then apply to the churches of today. The church of Laodicea seems like a lot of churches today. Or it could be my imagination. So, when He told the church in Ephesus He would remove their lampstand, He was not referring to them? Yes to Ephesus and chrches today , but I believe there is a symbolic meaning for lampstand and i'm not smart enough to figure it out yet. Is this lampstand the menorah? mizzy or candice might have more info on the menorah, I know i'ts complicated. Also lampstand is mentioned in Rev 11:4 and my NIV study bible says it's the Spirit of the Lord (Zec 4). If it is the Spirit of the Lord couldn't He remove His Spirit from a church today? This is what it reads in my study Bible. Rev.2:5 Remember therefore from where you are fallen (this means they have fallen from grace, which mean they have stopped depending on Christ and the Cross [Gal.5:4]), and repent,and do the first works (go back to the Cross); or else I will come unto you quickly, and will remove your candlestick out of his place, except you repent. (Christ is the source of the light, but the Cross is the means. They are to come back to the Cross, or else the light will be removed.) I also believe this was not just meant for the Church of Ephesus, it was meant for ever whom the shoe fits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nebula Posted June 25, 2011 Group: Royal Member Followers: 10 Topic Count: 5,823 Topics Per Day: 0.75 Content Count: 45,870 Content Per Day: 5.95 Reputation: 1,897 Days Won: 83 Joined: 03/22/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/19/1970 Share Posted June 25, 2011 This is what it reads in my study Bible. Rev.2:5 Remember therefore from where you are fallen (this means they have fallen from grace, which mean they have stopped depending on Christ and the Cross [Gal.5:4]), and repent,and do the first works (go back to the Cross); or else I will come unto you quickly, and will remove your candlestick out of his place, except you repent. (Christ is the source of the light, but the Cross is the means. They are to come back to the Cross, or else the light will be removed.) I also believe this was not just meant for the Church of Ephesus, it was meant for ever whom the shoe fits. But the way Believer wrote it initially, I was given the impression what Jesus said had no bearing on that church, for he said something to the effect of the judgment not having happened yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Believer112 Posted June 25, 2011 Group: Senior Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 39 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 540 Content Per Day: 0.11 Reputation: 32 Days Won: 3 Joined: 09/06/2010 Status: Offline Birthday: 05/29/1960 Share Posted June 25, 2011 This is what it reads in my study Bible. Rev.2:5 Remember therefore from where you are fallen (this means they have fallen from grace, which mean they have stopped depending on Christ and the Cross [Gal.5:4]), and repent,and do the first works (go back to the Cross); or else I will come unto you quickly, and will remove your candlestick out of his place, except you repent. (Christ is the source of the light, but the Cross is the means. They are to come back to the Cross, or else the light will be removed.) I also believe this was not just meant for the Church of Ephesus, it was meant for ever whom the shoe fits. But the way Believer wrote it initially, I was given the impression what Jesus said had no bearing on that church, for he said something to the effect of the judgment not having happened yet. Nebula maybe my definition of judgment is different than yours. When I read the NT, the term judgment usually means at the Lord Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nebula Posted June 25, 2011 Group: Royal Member Followers: 10 Topic Count: 5,823 Topics Per Day: 0.75 Content Count: 45,870 Content Per Day: 5.95 Reputation: 1,897 Days Won: 83 Joined: 03/22/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/19/1970 Share Posted June 25, 2011 Nebula maybe my definition of judgment is different than yours. When I read the NT, the term judgment usually means at the Lord Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldzimm Posted June 25, 2011 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 85 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 1,874 Content Per Day: 0.34 Reputation: 348 Days Won: 12 Joined: 03/10/2009 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/08/1955 Share Posted June 25, 2011 This is what it reads in my study Bible. Rev.2:5 Remember therefore from where you are fallen (this means they have fallen from grace, which mean they have stopped depending on Christ and the Cross [Gal.5:4]), and repent,and do the first works (go back to the Cross); or else I will come unto you quickly, and will remove your candlestick out of his place, except you repent. (Christ is the source of the light, but the Cross is the means. They are to come back to the Cross, or else the light will be removed.) I also believe this was not just meant for the Church of Ephesus, it was meant for ever whom the shoe fits. But the way Believer wrote it initially, I was given the impression what Jesus said had no bearing on that church, for he said something to the effect of the judgment not having happened yet. Nebula maybe my definition of judgment is different than yours. When I read the NT, the term judgment usually means at the Lord’s second coming. I try not to mix the old wine with the new. In the OT God judged righteously and severe in some cases but in the NT God made peace with man (because of Jesus) and has placed the sins of mankind on Jesus. When I hear preachers talk about God judging America for its sin’s, it tells me that Jesus sacrifice wasn’t good enough. What’s happening in the world are the signs of the times. The whole creation is groaning and the wickedness of man is increasing. That’s why the world is in the condition it’s in. Man is moving away from God just as in the days of Noah then judgment will come. What the seven churches has taught me that if we continue to willfully sin (not repenting), God will remove His Holy Spirit (lamp stand?) and we won’t see heaven. So in my mind some Christians who hold the OSAS position are in for a rude awakening. This brings the book of Hebrews into better light. If we sin with a non repentant heart we are in essence trampling Jesus sacrifice underfoot. I don't believe these disasters are judgement on any nation. I will say that these disasters could be punishment from God for turning toward evil ways and if a nation can turn from its evil ways, God's light can shine upon it again. I believe God's judgement is for all of us individually, not countries and it hasn't come yet. If there has already been a judgement, then why is there a need for the Holy Bible? The Bible is our guide to live by, so that we can be saved. God has given us free will, we can choose to accept Jesus as our Lord an Savior or not, we have free will to live by God's rules (the Bible) or not and we will be judged accordingly. I don't believe God judges nations like he would us. If the USA remains on the path of sin and Judgement day comes, who is God going to judge, the USA as a whole or the individual citizens that supported sinful laws? Is God going to find fault with a whole nation and then send all the citizenship to hell? I don't think so. What I do believe is when God sees a nation has gotten to the point of no return, he will have that nation dissolve or come to a complete change, either by a revolutionary war, civil war or by invasion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Believer112 Posted June 26, 2011 Group: Senior Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 39 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 540 Content Per Day: 0.11 Reputation: 32 Days Won: 3 Joined: 09/06/2010 Status: Offline Birthday: 05/29/1960 Share Posted June 26, 2011 I don't know how to explain it any other way. John 12:47-48 New King James Version (NKJV) 47 And if anyone hears My words and does not believe, I do not judge him; for I did not come to judge the world but to save the world. 48 He who rejects Me, and does not receive My words, has that which judges him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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