What Jesus Said About Who He Is

[Nakosis]

To Become Teachable

But he giveth more grace. Wherefore he saith, God resisteth the proud, but giveth grace unto the humble. James 4:6

Perhaps It Is Helpful To Really Desire

I agree

However being a Christian is not necessarily an indication of a humble heart. Nor is accepting Jesus into your life for the sake of salvation.

The humility of giving up on one's knowing-ness. You know the path to salvation, do you? Are you proud of being a Christian? Are to proud to be chosen to do God's work?

We know nothing about God Joe. We really don't. I know what's put before me. Not much else. I'm waiting for God to show me, teach me. I accept my lack of knowledge. Have you ever gotten to the point of accepting you "know" nothing? Real humility comes from accepting one's ignorance about everything. Have you ever done that?

I know what I know, which isn't very much and even that "knowledge" I question. No covenant charts, no theology, no BS religious doctrine. God's going to have to show me what is what. Do you have faith in that? God will reveal the truth to a person according to God's own schedule. You can't really teach a person about something they haven't seen. They won't get it. They won't understand. They may think they do but they won't.

Who can teach about heaven except the person that has been there. Have you been?

Matt 20:

9 “The workers who were hired about five in the afternoon came and each received a denarius. 10 So when those came who were hired first, they expected to receive more. But each one of them also received a denarius. 11 When they received it, they began to grumble against the landowner. 12 ‘These who were hired last worked only one hour,’ they said, ‘and you have made them equal to us who have borne the burden of the work and the heat of the day.’

13 “But he answered one of them, ‘I am not being unfair to you, friend. Didn’t you agree to work for a denarius? 14 Take your pay and go. I want to give the one who was hired last the same as I gave you. 15 Don’t I have the right to do what I want with my own money? Or are you envious because I am generous?’

16 “So the last will be first, and the first will be last.”

I agreed to work for the truth. That's all I asked for.

[Guest shiloh357]

Still Waiting For A Response, Nakosis

shiloh357, on 04 August 2011 - 09:59 AM, said:

Mt. Ebal: Joshua 8:30 tells us that Joshua built an altar there. The ruins of that altar have been found and it is the only altar on the mountain. They have been dated to the period of Rameses II, which is the period most scholars believe that the children of Israel departed from Egypt.

Yes that was a very interesting find. Now while it's not unreasonable to consider this maybe that alter the people who excavated the site and numerous other archeologist are far from as certain as you seem to be. As I said, history is full of opinions. Here's a reference you might be interested in.

Mount Ebal

Wikipedia??? Are you serious??? LOL, Wikipedia is only about the MOST unreliable source you can find on anything on Internet. Here is an article from a peer-reviewed scholarly source (which is not necessarily "Christian") that actually has intellectual merit>>> Biblical Archeology Revew - Evidence for Dating the Mt. Ebal Altar

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Context is always a clear indicators of what a person means.

Sure if one is certain of the context. However, especially in historical situations context can get cloudy.

Not where the Bible is concerned. And it isn't just context. Hermeneutics is a study of the historical/cultural context, literary context, genre, linguistics, and so on. It is a very objective process and works with any type of literature to determine its credibility.

I suspect this prompted Paul to say.

"1 Corinthians 13:12 Now all we can see of God is like a cloudy picture in a mirror.

Later we will see him face to face.

We don't know everything, but then we will, just as God completely understands us."

I think it remains reasonable to question that which we assume certainty in.

Ironically, this makes my point about context and hermeneutics and your rank ignorance of it. Paul is talking about looking in a mirror. The context pertains to divine knowledge. Our knowledge of God is incomplete due to the filter of our carnal, finite minds. But when are transformed and sin is eradicated, we will see Him more clearly. This is a promise for Christians. You, at this stage have no share in that.

Language is funny, especially English. Much of our ability to communicate comes not so much through the words that we use but a pool of shared common experiences. For example the phrase "that man is green". I've heard the phrase before, I am aware of the connection between green and envy. Because of that share context I could probably figure out what you meant. Or at least be aware that their might be different possible meanings and so take the time to inquire further.

Yes, if you simply walked up to someone I was talking to and I said "so and so is green," you would have no idea what I meant, unless as you said, you asked me what I meant.

The problem with historical documents is that the non-verbalized context is missing. We can assume like I might do with the phrase "that man is green," however further inquiry is greatly limited. The author is not around to clarify the context for us. So I think important to remain open to questioning one's own certainty.

That argument doesn’t really cut it and so far, you have demonstrated no competence where history is concerned. You are just blowing smoke and have no idea how context is used and what it means. You have already demonstrated from the verse above that you cannot use context in the way you completely butchered the verse and ignored its immediate context. So don't bother trying to tell me about history or context. You don't know anything about either.

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No, it means that it is YOUR decision. I am not expected to argue into the Kingdom. It has to be your choice and I am not responsible for your choice. You are. Skeptics want to argue endlessly and try to keep us on the line indefinitely. My job is to present the truth and let you make the decision. I am accountable for my decision and you are accountable for yours. It has nothing to do with being convenient. If you choose to reject the truth, the consequences if you are wrong are yours alone to bear. My point is that your rejection of the truth does not mean I am unsuccessful in sharing it. It means that you have chosen continued separation from God and that you consciously accept the consequences for that decision, which entails an eternal future of misery and perpetual destruction. If you choose to assume that risk, for whatever reason, there is no amount of evidence and nothing I can say that will deter you.

I think the certainty you assume is just as risky. If you've misunderstood any part of the Bible or Jesus you could end up misleading those who have chosen to rely on your certainty.

But if someone follows you, they risk spending eternity in hell. If I am wrong, no one stands to lose anything. At the very worst, they simply cease to exist. If I am wrong, no one will be the wiser. If YOU are wrong, there will be nothing but eternal punishment and destruction and a continuing remembrance of your rejection of the truth and the realization that it didn't have to be like that. Sorry, but YOU are the one taking all the risks.

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If I am wrong, then the worst thing that will happen to me is I go floating away in limbo or simply fade into nothing. If YOU are wrong, you stand to lose far, far more than me. I am not the one taking the gamble.

How do you know that is the worst thing that will happen if you are wrong. Say for example the Muslims are right or the Jews are right or the Heathens?

You are taking the chance that what you don't know won't hurt you

That is not true. For one thing most religions don’t believe in hell. For example: Buddhism, Hare Krishna, Hinduism, Jainism, Judaism, Rastafarianism, Shintoism, Sikhism, Taoism, Vedanta, Christian Science, New Age, Scientology, and Unitarian Universalism are all major world religions with no concept of hell. Many believe that we die and become nothing, or we continue to be reborn over and over until we reach perfection. Some believe in heaven only, like the Jehovah’s Witnesses.

Secondly as for Islam, you need to understand that their theology that informs their understanding of hell is far different than Christianity’s. Christianity views hell as a consequence for choosing continued separation from God. We believe that man is born a sinner by default. Man inherits a sin nature by virtue of being a descendent of Adam who fell in the Garden of Eden. Man is born automatically under a sentence of spiritual death and if he chooses to remain in that condition and rejects the free gift of eternal life that God offers, hell is the consequence for that choice. But the person who chooses to accept that free gift has the assurance of eternal life and is eternally free from the curse of death and has the promise of living eternally with God.

In Islam, it is quite different. For one thing, Muslims have no assurance of eternal life. You can BE a Muslim and still go to hell, because in Islam it is entirely based on works. You can believe the right thing, choose, the “right” religion and still go to hell. So it doesn’t really matter from an Islamic perspective if you choose to believe the right things or not. In Islam, they believe that when you die your good works and your bad works will be weighed in the balance and if your good works outweigh your bad works, then you get in to heaven. The problem with Islam is that there is no way to know in this life if you have been good enough. They do not know if they have done enough good deeds, said enough prayers or have been devout enough to warrant heaven. For them, it is a wait and see.

In Bible, God does not leave you guessing. Can you know if you are good enough to enter heaven? Sure. The answer is no, you are not good enough. No one is good enough and can never hope to be good enough to enter heaven. God does not receive us on the basis of being good enough. When Adam sinned in the Garden, it created a rift in the spiritual fabric of the universe, with God on one side and man on the other and a huge gulf in between and no way for man to pass over to the other side. That is what salvation is about. It is how God fixed the tear. Man had to have a Savior, someone who span the gap and bring man and God back together.

Furthermore, in Christianity we have complete assurance of salvation. We have a God who has always kept His promises and has a spotless track record of integrity and faithfulness. In Islam, Muslims have to die for their god in order to be assured of heaven. In Christianity, our God died for us to give us that assurance. The two could not be more opposite.

So I am not hedging any bets or hoping that I got it right and picked the right religion. In Islam, that wouldn’t even matter. I am a Christian because it has a much greater ring of truth. There is evidence. It is not a blind faith and we serve a God who was willing to give His life for ours. No one else can claim that. Muhammad was a psychopath, a murderer and a pedophile. If he were alive today, he would be locked up in a maximum-security prison or asylum for the mentally deranged. I don’t think I will hang my hat on anything such a reprobate has to say about hell or anything else.

[Guest shiloh357]

So even as I tell you the truth of my intent you remain certain in your assumptions. And, you see no risk in this?

But I am not working off of assumptions at all. I don’t assume the Bible is true. I don’t assume anything in the Bible is true. I don’t have to. I have a personal relationship with God. That is not something you can test, or have any point of reference for. But is not an assumption. It is an experience. Secondly, I have objectively verified evidence that the Scripture is true. All of the claims of the Christian faith are rooted in fact, not assumptions. I am not risking anything. YOU are the one operating off of assumptions and a lot of misinformation as far as I can tell. You say a lot of things that are not factual, and some of which I think you just pull out of the air. You don’t come off as anyone who has done any real research. I think you parrot what you have seen on atheist websites or chat rooms or something and try to pass that off as “research.” The fact that you would use Wikipedia as a historical source is just laughable. I am not the one who is risking anything. I have a rationale AND I have a God who has made Himself real to me. You have nothing to offer but sloppy, bargain basement research.

One should do their best to verify the truth before accepting it or rejecting it don't you think? If I fail to verify what someone else claims and accept it without question isn't that also on my head.

Really and what serve as adequate verification that the Bible is true?

I tried that but found a lot of inconstancy in what has been claim as the truth.

Really? Like what?

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Ok, so they were killed because they believed Jesus was the Messiah, they believed he was Lord, they believe he was a direct descendent of David. I don't suppose you're going to accept I was right here...

Well, you aren't right. You missed it entirely.

Actually I was right, you didn't accept it

I didn’t accept it, because you misrepresented it. You kept misrepresenting the facts, and you don’t possess the courage or integrity to admit it. It shows you are too dishonest to be trusted in a debate.

Yes made your opinion clear. you need this to be true to support your claims. I don't need it to be true or false. I'll just point out it is not consistent with what others have said.

It wasn’t an opinion but historical fact based on available evidence. That is how the record is borne out. I didn’t suppose it happened that way. The historical record of the Bible gives us that information. Calling it “opinion” is just another example of your conteued dishonest approach and tells me a lot about your character.

Actually you've been making outlandish claims on my behalf.

No I have not. I have only been responding to the claims you have made. The fact that you can’t support them and thus have to pretend that I am making them up shows the inherent weakness in your position.

[Guest]

To Know Him

For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure. Philippians 2:13

Is To Love Him

He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not.

Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted.

But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.

All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.

He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth. Isaiah 53:3-7

And I Do

____________

However being a Christian is not necessarily an indication of a humble heart. Nor is accepting Jesus into your life for the sake of salvation.

The humility of giving up on one's knowing-ness. You know the path to salvation, do you? Are you proud of being a Christian? Are to proud to be chosen to do God's work?

My Pride

But God forbid that I should glory, save in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world is crucified unto me, and I unto the world. Galatians 6:14

Is My LORD

Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God. Hebrews 12:2

My God

He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him. John 14:21

___________

We know nothing about God Joe. We really don't. I know what's put before me. Not much else. I'm waiting for God to show me, teach me. I accept my lack of knowledge. Have you ever gotten to the point of accepting you "know" nothing? Real humility comes from accepting one's ignorance about everything. Have you ever done that?

Yes

Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

Blessed are they that mourn: for they shall be comforted.

Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth.

Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled.

Blessed are the merciful: for they shall obtain mercy.

Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see God. Matthew 5:3-8

Yes

Thy hands have made me and fashioned me: give me understanding, that I may learn thy commandments. Psalms 119:73

I Have

Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls. Matthew 11:29

And I Believed

Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:

And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?

She saith unto him, Yea, Lord: I believe that thou art the Christ, the Son of God, which should come into the world. John 11:25-27

Won't You

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. John 3:16

Be Blessed Beloved

Love, Joe

[B13]

In Islam, it is quite different. For one thing, Muslims have no assurance of eternal life. You can BE a Muslim and still go to hell, because in Islam it is entirely based on works. You can believe the right thing, choose, the “right” religion and still go to hell. So it doesn’t really matter from an Islamic perspective if you choose to believe the right things or not. In Islam, they believe that when you die your good works and your bad works will be weighed in the balance and if your good works outweigh your bad works, then you get in to heaven. The problem with Islam is that there is no way to know in this life if you have been good enough. They do not know if they have done enough good deeds, said enough prayers or have been devout enough to warrant heaven. For them, it is a wait and see.

You are a little bit confused, what you claimed about Islam is not accurate at all.

The Qur'an 4:122 - But the ones who believe and do righteous deeds - We will admit them to gardens beneath which rivers flow, wherein they will abide forever. [it is] the promise of Allah , [which is] truth, and who is more truthful than Allah in statement.

You have to understand two things about Islam, first it's not about being a muslim, there may be someone who is known as a muslim, but if from the inside he does not believe in God, then this is not going to help him. It's about your belief, not what you say.

Second, good work is mutually exclusive with good faith. A true believer will only do as God's command, and God's only command the good things. If you do believe that God exist, then you will do good work as he commands. If you don't then you are an arrogant like Satan who knows that God exist but still do bad work, knowing that God exist is not going to save him.

Furthermore, in Christianity we have complete assurance of salvation. We have a God who has always kept His promises and has a spotless track record of integrity and faithfulness. In Islam, Muslims have to die for their god in order to be assured of heaven. In Christianity, our God died for us to give us that assurance. The two could not be more opposite.

Let my ask you this, can you prove from the bible that your God died for you!!

If he were alive today, he would be locked up in a maximum-security prison or asylum for the mentally deranged. I don’t think I will hang my hat on anything such a reprobate has to say about hell or anything else.

You claims are as far as they could from the truth, and if what are you saying is truth, don't you think that Jesus would accompany him?

[Guest]

The Christ

I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: John 5:43(a)

The False Christ

if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive. John 5:43(b)

And The Fruits Of The Liar

Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.

And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.

And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.

And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold. Matthew 24:9-12

~

.... Second, good work is mutually exclusive with good faith. A true believer will only do as God's command, and God's only command....

Well God ~ The Father Commands

And there was a cloud that overshadowed them: and a voice came out of the cloud, saying, This is my beloved Son: hear him. Mark 9:7

And God ~ The Son Commands

But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you; That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust. Matthew 5:44-45

And True Believers

Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock: And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock.

And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand: And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it. Matthew 7:21-27

Worship

But Thomas, one of the twelve, called Didymus, was not with them when Jesus came. The other disciples therefore said unto him, We have seen the Lord. But he said unto them, Except I shall see in his hands the print of the nails, and put my finger into the print of the nails, and thrust my hand into his side, I will not believe.

And after eight days again his disciples were within, and Thomas with them: then came Jesus, the doors being shut, and stood in the midst, and said, Peace be unto you.

Then saith he to Thomas, reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing.

And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God. John 20:24-28

~

Will You Choose Truth?

Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. John 14:6

Or Will You Not....

The Father loveth the Son, and hath given all things into his hand. He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him. John 3:35-36

Be Wise

Now when Jesus was born in Bethlehem of Judaea in the days of Herod the king, behold, there came wise men from the east to Jerusalem, Saying, Where is he that is born King of the Jews? for we have seen his star in the east, and are come to worship him. Matthew 2:1-2

Love, Joe

[nChrist]

Amen FresnoJoe!

[episkopos]

" Jesus declared in sober earnest that His words would outlast the created heavens and earth." Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall my words shall not pass away- Luke 21:33. "Poets and thinkers have sometimes boasted that their words would survice the most permananet works of man such as pyramids and momuments. But Jesus declared that His words would outlast the most stable works of God." Thus we can rightly conclude that what Jesus said about His self was take my word for it. . The Words of Jesus written by Dag Heward-Mills is a great read. I made some references to its content here. www.daghewardmills.org