What Jesus Said About Who He Is

[Guest]

I'd be happy to know the truth about things but I'm not looking for eternal life. I'm happy with this life, friendship, love. I get to help people. I enjoy the struggle of life, being able to overcome problems. Life is good, I enjoy what I have now. It's enough.

Ah Kind Sir You Do Yourself And Your Loved Ones A Grave Disservice

For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul? Matthew 16:26

For Jesus The Christ Is Risen

And he saith unto them, Be not affrighted: Ye seek Jesus of Nazareth, which was crucified: he is risen; he is not here: behold the place where they laid him. Mark 16:6

And So Will You

Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation. John 5:28-29

Get Ready

He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him. John 3:36

Or Not

____________

Believe

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. John 3:16

And Be Blessed Beloved

Love, Joe

[nebula]

Sorry, don't feel ignored. I actually read your post and was taking time to consider a reply.

OK

If you test something and decide for yourself, what happens with faith?

I believe you have a misunderstanding of what the word "faith" means.

You can research this yourself if you would like, but the Hebrew and Greek words which are translated into English as faith means "trust" (in Hebrew it has the added emphasis of "strong trust" and in Greek that of "persuasion, confidence").

All you've done with testing is confirming what or whom you have put faith in. No biggie.

I actually agree with you here, as I pointed out in others posts conviction seems a better understanding of what is meant by faith.

Then I do not understand why testing and deciding changes anything.

Faith is necessitated by ignorance.

Whoever gave you this idea was seriously in error.

Well there is a balance between knowledge and ignorance. If you know something for yourself then it's not a matter of trusting someone else. However if you are ignorant about a subject then you have to trust what someone else claims is true. Like the word pistis(faith). I'm not a language expert. So we both went to an expert who has knowledge on the subject. If I was not ignorant about these things I wouldn't need to trust the experts.

But even if you are knowledgeable about something, you are still putting faith (trust) in your knowledge and intellect and reasoning abilities to have it correct.

I still believe your assessment is incorrect. When you put faith in a person, do you not need knowledge of that person to put your trust in them? Why would you trust someone you are ignorant of?

If I pointed out testimonies to you of such happening, would you believe they actually happened?

I'm kind of neutral here. What do I know... I wasn't there, I didn't see what they saw. I'm ignorant of what actually occurred. It'd depend on how well I knew the person. If a number of people who I knew, who I had cause to trust made such a claim, I'd have stronger trust, more conviction in that claim.

See, even here you are requiring knowledge in order to have faith (trust) - you said you would have to know the person. That is knowledge, is it not? So why claim ignorance is foundation for faith?

[Nakosis]

I'd be happy to know the truth about things but I'm not looking for eternal life. I'm happy with this life, friendship, love. I get to help people. I enjoy the struggle of life, being able to overcome problems. Life is good, I enjoy what I have now. It's enough.

Ah Kind Sir You Do Yourself And Your Loved Ones A Grave Disservice

My loved ones make their own choices. I respect theirs and they respect mine. What disservice do you imagine here?

For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul? Matthew 16:26

For Jesus The Christ Is Risen

And he saith unto them, Be not affrighted: Ye seek Jesus of Nazareth, which was crucified: he is risen; he is not here: behold the place where they laid him. Mark 16:6

And So Will You

Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation. John 5:28-29

Get Ready

He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him. John 3:36

Or Not

____________

Believe

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. John 3:16

And Be Blessed Beloved

Love, Joe

If there is a God, then he gave me life. I'm not asking for anything more from him. I'm already happy with what I've been given. You want something more. I don't.

[nChrist]

John 1:1-5 KJV In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 The same was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. 4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men. 5 And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.

John 1:14 KJV And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

John 14:6-7 KJV Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. 7 If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.

Philippians 2:5-11 KJV Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: 6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: 7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: 8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross. 9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name: 10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; 11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

One can't deny or accept the Gospel of the Grace of God without focusing on Jesus Christ. He is the beginning and ending of any argument - either for or against.

Colossians 2:8-17 KJV Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ. 9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. 10 And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power: 11 In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ: 12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead. 13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses; 14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross; 15 And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it. 16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: 17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

So, like it or not, Jesus Christ is the foundation and central focus for acceptance or rejection. What one believes about Jesus Christ determines either eternal life or condemnation.

John 3:16-18 KJV For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. 17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. 18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

So, the biggest question of this short life is will you accept or reject Jesus Christ as Lord and Saviour?

[Fez]

shiloh357, on 31 July 2011 - 01:08 PM, said:

That is not really accurate. The Christian faith/idealogy is founded on the resurection of Jesus.

That belief is not based on an interpretation of the gospels? If not then what is the source of your belief?

Faith.

Yes, you have reason to trust strongly the claims of others.

All I'm saying is if you have personal knowledge, personal experience with these things, you wouldn't need faith.

I'm not even saying you shouldn't have faith. It's your choice where you place your faith. I'm just pointing out why faith is needed.

It's what we don't know. Our ignorance which makes faith necessary.

God enables our faith. And for me it was out of revelation and light that faith came. No ignorance involved.

After faith came increased knowledge, and (and here I don't expect a skeptic to believe me), I have seen miracles happen before my eyes. Ok, you can say, yeah right now if you will.....but..

The simple truth is that I have. I won't bother to explain, you cannot believe as you have no faith. (not knocking you here, I was once like you, thought like a chess player, and had to plan and understand every move). Now? I just believe.

Maddening isn't it

[Nakosis]

If there is a God, then he gave me life. I'm not asking for anything more from him. I'm already happy with what I've been given. You want something more. I don't.

If you were given you a house that had 4 bedrooms 3 baths,hardwood heated floors, grade A appliances, huge kitchen, 3600 sq feet, finished basement, that would be nice right. But what if it is full of mold, had grease all over the walls, plumbing issues, foundation issues, and had a smell that can't be removed, would you be satisified because you had a house.

Understand that the house may be given, but due to other factors this is not the house to be had. There are factors that has caused this house to be what it is, so being satisified that you have a house makes no sense. There is no real satisfaction to be had. This is the same thing for those who refuse God. There can be no real satisfaction.

Well, in talking about houses, I'd rather fix-up the house myself. I don't want the perfect house handed to me. It won't have as much value to me as something I put my work and effort into. It's a challenge. I'd want the challenge, not the house. A house without the challenge has little value to me. But that's me. I don't expect others to value the same things I do.

Even the smell you say couldn't be removed.

I'd probably have faith that I could and want to try. Even if impossible. It's the trying, the effort, the understanding gained I look for.

[Nakosis]

God enables our faith. And for me it was out of revelation and light that faith came. No ignorance involved.

Believe it or not, I accept that. However you understand your "revelation" does me no good. It's yours and you have to act/choose how you feel it's appropriate to do so. I also have to act according to my experiences. I'm not saying my experiences are any better, it's just like you, I have to work with what I've got.

After faith came increased knowledge, and (and here I don't expect a skeptic to believe me), I have seen miracles happen before my eyes. Ok, you can say, yeah right now if you will.....but..

Thank you, you've answer the original question.

Faith gives way to increased knowledge.

The simple truth is that I have. I won't bother to explain, you cannot believe as you have no faith. (not knocking you here, I was once like you, thought like a chess player, and had to plan and understand every move). Now? I just believe.

Maddening isn't it

I wasn't knocking faith. I just wanted to see if the purpose of faith was understood. I suppose people thought it was a trick question. I just wanted to see what people thought. I'm actually rather happy with your response.

What is maddening, and kind of interesting, is the misconceptions that arise from a simple question.

Like I never said I didn't have faith. It's pretty hard to get through life without it.

[Guest]

Ah Kind Sir You Do Yourself A Grave Disservice

For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul? Matthew 16:26

For Jesus The Christ Is Risen

And he saith unto them, Be not affrighted: Ye seek Jesus of Nazareth, which was crucified: he is risen; he is not here: behold the place where they laid him. Mark 16:6

And So Will You Too

Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation. John 5:28-29

So Get Ready

He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him. John 3:36

Or Not

____________

Believe

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. John 3:16

And Be Blessed Beloved

What disservice do you imagine here?

Kind Sir I Do Not Claim To Know The Imaginations Of Your Heart

And thou, Solomon my son, know thou the God of thy father, and serve him with a perfect heart and with a willing mind: for the LORD searcheth all hearts, and understandeth all the imaginations of the thoughts: if thou seek him, he will be found of thee; but if thou forsake him, he will cast thee off for ever. 1 Chronicle 28:9

And Of Course You May Think You Could Care Less

And in that day did the Lord GOD of hosts call to weeping, and to mourning, and to baldness, and to girding with sackcloth:

And behold joy and gladness, slaying oxen, and killing sheep, eating flesh, and drinking wine: let us eat and drink; for to morrow we shall die.

And it was revealed in mine ears by the LORD of hosts, Surely this iniquity shall not be purged from you till ye die, saith the Lord GOD of hosts. Isaiah 22:12-14

But Surly You Will Lose All You Hold Dear

And he said to them all, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow me. For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: but whosoever will lose his life for my sake, the same shall save it. Luke 9:23-24

Unless You Humble Yourself

For what is a man advantaged, if he gain the whole world, and lose himself, or be cast away? For whosoever shall be ashamed of me and of my words, of him shall the Son of man be ashamed, when he shall come in his own glory, and in his Father's, and of the holy angels. Luke 9:25-26

And Believe

Behold, I set before you this day a blessing and a curse;

A blessing, if ye obey the commandments of the LORD your God, which I command you this day:

And a curse, if ye will not obey the commandments of the LORD your God, but turn aside out of the way which I command you this day, to go after other gods, which ye have not known. Deuteronomy 11:26-28

Jesus

Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this? John 11:25-26

Love, Joe

[Nakosis]

One can't deny or accept the Gospel of the Grace of God without focusing on Jesus Christ. He is the beginning and ending of any argument - either for or against.

I don't have anything against the gospels or Jesus. My issue is with people who assume the authority to speak for them. I say let them speak for themselves.

They are accountable for what they say. Just as you are accountable for your actions. Jesus and the gospels are not accountable for your actions. Jesus and the gospels are not to be held accountable for the actions of Christians or Christianity.

My point was any issues I have with individual Christians or the doctrine of any particular Christian church I don't hold Jesus accountable for. I hold only the individuals involved accountable for what they claim, for their own actions.

So, the biggest question of this short life is will you accept or reject Jesus Christ as Lord and Saviour?

What I respect, what I give authority to is the truth. If Jesus is the truth then what we accept is one in the same. I will give authority to the truth, wherever it takes me.

Edited August 2, 2011 by Nakosis

[Nakosis]

What disservice do you imagine here?

Kind Sir I Do Not Claim To Know The Imaginations Of Your Heart

Ok, you thought a disservice being done. I just wondered what you thought it might be.

And Of Course You May Think You Could Care Less

But Surly You Will Lose All You Hold Dear

You don't understand. What I value can't be taken from me.

Unless You Humble Yourself

I am what I am. I have no illusions of grandeur.

Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this? John 11:25-26

Love, Joe

What I believe is that the truth will make itself known, whether I believe in it are not. Once the truth is revealed everyone will have to accept it for what it is. That is what I have faith in.

In the mean time I will try to honestly examine my ignorance and work to increase my knowledge/understanding by whatever manner makes itself available to me.