What Jesus Said About Who He Is

[Nakosis]

I am not understanding your thinking at all, Nakosis.

Ok, then let me ask you, why do you think you need faith?

Let me ask, could you describe in one word what you think faith means?

This is the definition I'm currently working with, from Merriam Webster...

faith: something that is believed especially with strong conviction; especially : a system of religious beliefs <the Protestant faith>

So conviction... Though I think another here didn't like the term. Strong conviction, but you said only one word.

[j102]

It solidifies your faith and makes it stronger. How can you tell someone about Jesus if you are not really convinced yourself that he is real.

Faith is necessitated by ignorance. Why would you want to solidify it?

What are you being convinced by? By what you don't know? By what someone else tells you is true?

In the Bible Jesus healed the sick, brought the dead back to life. If you could do that, hey that'd be very convincing in my book.

If all one has is faith without personal knowledge and experience, that's a little hard to trust in don't you think?

If the only thing you are relying on is faith you can't really tell anybody anything that you actual know of. You wouldn't even know if you are misleading them because you don't know. You only have faith that something is true. You'd be asking others to have faith in something that is a matter of your own ignorance.

i think you might be confusing faith in god with faith in faith itself.

according to the bible true faith is alive and active, in that one has a personal one-on-one relationship with god himself not church or religion.

and when a person accepts jesus as savior the spirit of god bears witness to the believer that these thing are true and scripture can be trusted.

[Nakosis]

i think you might be confusing faith in god with faith in faith itself.

according to the bible true faith is alive and active, in that one has a personal one-on-one relationship with god himself not church or religion.

and when a person accepts jesus as savior the spirit of god bears witness to the believer that these thing are true and scripture can be trusted.

Faith is a word used a lot so I'm trying to get a better understanding.

So, do you see, say... Faith in one's wife or best friend as being different then faith in God?

Or well, lets take it from the Bible...

Hebrews 11

1 Now faith is confidence in what we hope for and assurance about what we do not see. 2 This is what the ancients were commended for.

3 By faith we understand that the universe was formed at God’s command, so that what is seen was not made out of what was visible.

4 By faith Abel brought God a better offering than Cain did. By faith he was commended as righteous, when God spoke well of his offerings. And by faith Abel still speaks, even though he is dead.

5 By faith Enoch was taken from this life, so that he did not experience death: “He could not be found, because God had taken him away.” For before he was taken, he was commended as one who pleased God. 6 And without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who comes to him must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who earnestly seek him.

You have to hope for something because you don't have actual knowledge of it's truth.

You must believe. If you know something then why would belief be necessary?

"earnestly seek him"? Why? They don't know where God is.

Don't you see a common theme here? That of lacking knowledge of some type?

If you tell me you have red hair, I don't know that is true. I've no reason to think you'd lie about it. Still I don't know so I'd have to have some faith in you to believe your claim.

However if I knew you. Maybe you lived next door. I would have seen you and know for certain the color of your hair. My lack of this knowledge makes the faith necessary.

[nChrist]

Many LACK faith, belief, conviction, personal knowledge, and personal experience, and hard evidence about Jesus Christ, but NOT me. I've been a Christian for 57 years, and I KNOW HIM and HE KNOWS ME. It isn't just a matter of faith or opinion, rather a hard as concrete REALITY for me. The lost suffer such things, but I DON'T. I don't just THINK - I KNOW far beyond any doubt. Great hosts of Christians over the ages had the same concrete KNOWLEDGE. So, I don't have just an opinion within myself about Jesus Christ, rather an ABSOLUTE REALITY about Jesus Christ within myself. Hosts of Christians over these ages were willing to die for the REALITY of Jesus Christ, and they became martyrs because they wouldn't utter something like "I reject Jesus Christ". This is a matter of recorded history. The same thing is happening right now around the world, so I doubt one would limit their description as just faith, belief, or opinion. The LOST don't understand how Christians can state that Jesus Christ is Absolute Reality, just as they can't understand or accept God's Word. They don't understand that they have a massive unresolved problem that has ETERNAL CONSEQUENCES. It's ironic that many of the LOST have militant thoughts about those who try to witness to them. Further, many of them mock God and His Word. They are many times their own worst enemy as they remain LOST and the one needing the HELP. Some act as if the Christians are the ones needing help, and they think that they need to educate us about their unbelief. In fact, they have NOTHING to offer us, and they are amazed when we let them know that they have NOTHING to teach us. In other words, if you're LOST - you're the one with the PROBLEM.

[nebula]

I don't know... One can try to be a skeptic of everything.

I think what you are saying is a person has to believe in something?

Because... and this is the point of my thinking, a person can't know everything. So a person has to trust/believe in something. Choose to put your faith in something.

For example some people put their faith in certain scientists when it come to man made global warming. If you knew for certain that this was or was not the case. You wouldn't need to have faith in the claims of scientists. You would know the truth. Then the people who didn't know could decide whether or not to have faith in your claims.

For what you know for sure, 100% certain, why would you need faith in what others claim about it.

It's what a person doesn't know that requires them to put their faith in someone or something else. If a person knew absolutely, why would they need to have faith in anyone else. Their own knowledge would be sufficient wouldn't it?

Bad example on the Global Warming. People don't believe one way or another on account of faith in certain scientists - at least the skeptics don't.

But I would contest that knowledge is needed for faith - if you want to tag knowledge as having that much power. I wouldn't put my faith in someone without reason to have faith in that person, would you? Would you put faith in a stranger without a reason to believe they would be trustworthy?

Would scientists put faith in the Higgs without a reason to believe it exists (knowledge required).

Do you suppose Christians have faith in Jesus because we are ignorant, stupid, don't know better? I have knowledge that backs up my faith; it may not convince you, but it's enough for me.

[Nakosis]

Bad example on the Global Warming. People don't believe one way or another on account of faith in certain scientists - at least the skeptics don't.

Unless you are able to prove for yourself the existence and cause of AGW then how else do you decide which side to come down on. If you have the where-with-all to study global climate change yourself, derive your own conclusions, that great. Most, not having the where-with-all have to put their faith in the research of others.

But I would contest that knowledge is needed for faith - if you want to tag knowledge as having that much power. I wouldn't put my faith in someone without reason to have faith in that person, would you? Would you put faith in a stranger without a reason to believe they would be trustworthy?

Sure, continued faith should require some validation.

Would scientists put faith in the Higgs without a reason to believe it exists (knowledge required).

I don't know. People put their faith in others for odd reasons. I'm sure they all think they have good reason to. Perhaps they should have less faith in people. These Scientist as you say are strangers to me and I'd suspect most who decide to trust them or not. They could be lying and you'd never know until you did your own research.

Do you suppose Christians have faith in Jesus because we are ignorant, stupid, don't know better? I have knowledge that backs up my faith; it may not convince you, but it's enough for me.

Your faith is made stronger because of what you've experienced for yourself. But, it's still faith because of what you don't know.

People know what they know. But sometimes people know what they know because they've trusted the claims of someone else. Someone they don't know.

People will trust what they want to believe with very little question. They will distrust what they don't want to believe. Truth has very little to do with this.

For example, I have some liberal friends who trust Al Gore. This global warming issue. Al Gore said it, it must be true. My conservative friends wouldn't trust Al Gore if he told them his name was Al Gore. Neither group really knows Al Gore. They know of him. This perhaps makes it seem like Al is not a stranger. However they don't really know him. They think this "knowledge" of him is enough to know whether he is trust-worthy of not. It's not but most people still act as if it is.

You have your reasoning for what you choose to trust. Everyone has that. I actually spend more time questioning the people I've chosen to trust and honestly most those people didn't really deserve the trust I put in them. The nature of man is not without sin is it?

Yes I ask people why they've chosen to trust what/who they trust. I think it is an important question. However you don't need to satisfy me. I think it's to their own benefit and if they are satisfied with the answers then great. Truth is sometimes I need people to ask me. I get comfortable with a belief and forget to question how trustworthy it is sometimes.

People do trust too easily. I see it over and over again. Often it is the blind leading the blind. Don't you think it is a good idea to validate that who's ever lead you happen to be following can actually see?

That's not always easy to do. Sometimes the blind think they can actually see. To heck with what I think about the Bible, Jesus or your faith. You don't need to convince anyone else, just be certain for yourself.

[Nakosis]

Hi, Nakosis,

I'd be interested in knowing what you, and they, might think these claims show about Jesus:

You'd have to be asking the various other Christians/groups out there. I don't speak for them.

Bishop Spong comes to mind. Greek Orthodox, Mormons. (Ok, Mormons are even a little strange to me, Really nice people though)

Those are staggering claims, to say the least.

What do you think they show about him?

It's a different understanding. A different paradigm. A different base from which conclusions are drawn.

For example did Jesus ever say to put your faith in the Bible? Here's what he did say.

John 5:39 You study the Scriptures diligently because you think that in them you have eternal life. These are the very Scriptures that testify about me, 40 yet you refuse to come to me to have life.

Jesus never wrote any scripture. Yet you put your faith in the words of the Bible.

John 14:26

But the Advocate, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you.

Is his death, resurrection and divinity what's most important?

Mark 12:29 and Jesus answered him -- `The first of all the commands, Hear, O Israel, the Lord is our God, the Lord is one;

30and thou shalt love the Lord thy God out of all thy heart, and out of thy soul, and out of all thine understanding, and out of all thy strength -- this the first command; 31and the second like, this, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself; -- greater than these there is no other command.'

1 Corinthians 13:8 Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away. 9 For we know in part and we prophesy in part, 10 but when completeness comes, what is in part disappears.

You find in the Bible what you seek, salvation. I'm not looking for salvation. I just wanted to know how people got so screwed up. The answer I got is that they are always trying to find someway to save themselves.

On the one hand Christians will say man cannot save himself. Other the other, the rules one must abide by to be save. Ok, I hope that works out for you.

[nebula]

Nakosis, you're stubborn.

All you have done is contrived a new way to exalt and worship knowledge as the measure of all things.

[nChrist]

Ephesians 1:12-23 KJV That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ. 13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, 14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory. 15 Wherefore I also, after I heard of your faith in the Lord Jesus, and love unto all the saints, 16 Cease not to give thanks for you, making mention of you in my prayers; 17 That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him: 18 The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints, 19 And what is the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe, according to the working of his mighty power, 20 Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places, 21 Far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come: 22 And hath put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church, 23 Which is his body, the fulness of him that filleth all in all.

Some of the lost talk about "blindness and being screwed up". Sadly, they are describing themselves. It's obvious that they don't understand - how could they? They don't have the Holy Spirit of God living in their hearts. Very sad, especially for those who mock the truth. They just DON'T KNOW that the TRUTH will set them FREE. This is why God's Word says:

Isaiah 52:6-7 Therefore my people shall know my name: therefore they shall know in that day that I am he that doth speak: behold, it is I. 7 How beautiful upon the mountains are the feet of him that bringeth good tidings, that publisheth peace; that bringeth good tidings of good, that publisheth salvation; that saith unto Zion, Thy God reigneth!

Romans 10:14-15 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher? 15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!

[Guest]

You find in the Bible what you seek, salvation. I'm not looking for salvation. I just wanted to know how people got so screwed up. The answer I got is that they are always trying to find someway to save themselves.

On the one hand Christians will say man cannot save himself. Other the other, the rules one must abide by to be save. Ok, I hope that works out for you.

To Become Teachable

But he giveth more grace. Wherefore he saith, God resisteth the proud, but giveth grace unto the humble. James 4:6

Perhaps It Is Helpful To Really Desire

Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled. Matthew 5:6

To Find Truth

Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. John 14:6

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Be Blessed

And ye shall seek me, and find me, when ye shall search for me with all your heart. Jeremiah 29:13

Beloved

O taste and see that the LORD is good: blessed is the man that trusteth in him. Psalms 34:8

Love, Joe