three resurrections

[~candice~]

I don't think we can presume that Alan. Was Lazarus in his incorruptible body when he was raised again? The text doesn't say if he was or wasn't, and it doesn't say what happened after, whether he went to heaven or died again etc etc.

It seems to me as though people who are raised from the dead, and those in Matt 27, are exceptions to a general rule that the saints are resurrected to their new bodies at His second coming.

[George]

This is my understanding of the passage. The saints rule with Jesus for the 1000 years. The passage doesn't end with just the martyred saints ruling. If you read closely, the passage is this --

Revelation 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

This resurrection is the resurrection of all saints and they reign with Jesus for 1000 years.

Don't let verse 4 throw you off and think that only tribulation saints rule with Jesus for 1000 years.

Remember that the apostles were told they would be reigning over the 12 tribes of Israel.

Luke 22:29-30 And I appoint unto you a kingdom, as my Father hath appointed unto me; That ye may eat and drink at my table in my kingdom, and sit on thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

These saints are not tribulation saints -- yet they will certainly sit on thrones!

This is my thought on the whole scenario.

At the last trumpet, EVERYONE will be raised up -- both the righteous and the unrighteous as the Bible clearly says.

Revelation 11:18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

Now the righteous have been given their resurrected, incorruptible bodies -- meanwhile the rest of the dead -- were resurrected to see the Lord coming in great power and then await in Hell for their final judgment at the end of the 1000 years at the great white throne judgment. Hell is merely a holding cell before the final verdict is given.

Revelation 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

The final resting place of the unrighteous is the lake of fire, which doesn't happen till after the 1000 years! This is why the Scripture says "Blessed is He who takes part in the first resurrection -- these are ones who got their incorruptible bodies!" The second resurrection -- is the final verdict given to those who never came to the Lord -- and thus are judge because their names were not written in the Lamb's book of life.

Does that make sense?

God bless,

George

[~candice~]

Well, yes, but can you clarify when you think the last trump is? End of the trib or end of the mill? I don't know you well enough to presume you meant the end of the trib / second coming / rapture.

[George]

Last Trumpet is the 7th Trumpet.

Look at what Revelation 10:7 says,

Revelation 10:7 But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.

The connection to MYSTERY is connected to the MYSTERY Paul describes in 1 Corinthians 15:51-58 and the connection also to the 7th Trumpet described in Revelation 11.

And certainly it's not AFTER the 1000 year reign.

God bless,

George

[~candice~]

Last Trumpet is the 7th Trumpet.

Look at what Revelation 10:7 says,

Revelation 10:7 But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.

The connection to MYSTERY is connected to the MYSTERY Paul describes in 1 Corinthians 15:51-58 and the connection also to the 7th Trumpet described in Revelation 11.

And certainly it's not AFTER the 1000 year reign.

God bless,

George

Great, so we don't really disagree on much, from what I can gather. But I'm no expert on this.

Here's what I've got (for believers)

sacrifices cease -> 3.5 year Trib -> Second coming / rapture / resurrection / last trumpet -> Mill reign -> new heaven / earth.

It is the timing of the resurrection of the unjust that has me confuddled. Are you saying that some of them survive through the mill reign?

Thanks George

[George]

The resurrection of the unjust takes place at the same time as the just -- however they are awaiting their final judgment (second resurrection).

The unjust at the end of the Millennial Kingdom seem to be punished at the Great White Throne Judgment -- as they are dealt with in the final Gog and Magog war when Satan is released out of the pit for the final deception of the nations.

God bless,

George

[OneLight]

I don't think we can presume that Alan. Was Lazarus in his incorruptible body when he was raised again? The text doesn't say if he was or wasn't, and it doesn't say what happened after, whether he went to heaven or died again etc etc.

It seems to me as though people who are raised from the dead, and those in Matt 27, are exceptions to a general rule that the saints are resurrected to their new bodies at His second coming.

Remember that Lazarus was dead only four days. At 4 days, bloating has just begun, so his body structure is pretty much the same, though his brain and cells has started to decay. I wonder how long those who rose from the grave in Matthew 27 have been in the grave? I would say they were in the grave a whole lot longer then four days.

[OneLight]

The resurrection of the unjust takes place at the same time as the just -- however they are awaiting their final judgment (second resurrection).

The unjust at the end of the Millennial Kingdom seem to be punished at the Great White Throne Judgment -- as they are dealt with in the final Gog and Magog war when Satan is released out of the pit for the final deception of the nations.

God bless,

George

Thanks for explaining what you believe about those who have lived and died in Christ before the Millennium, but what are your thoughts about those who live during the Millennium? When are those who believe in Christ, but died during this time, resurrected? 1000 years is a long time and many will believe in Christ, many will not. I understand when the dead will be judged, but what about the believers?

[enoob57]

This is just musings-> for by all that is known this mystery awaiting the fullness in understanding...

1 Cor 15:35-55

35 But someone will say, "How are the dead raised up? And with what body do they come?" 36 (Foolish one), what you sow is not made alive unless it dies. 37 And what you sow, you do not sow that body that shall be, but mere grain — perhaps wheat or some other grain. 38 But God gives it a body as He pleases, and to each seed its own body.

39 All flesh is not the same flesh, but there is one kind of flesh of men, another flesh of animals, another of fish, and another of birds.

40 There are also celestial bodies and terrestrial bodies; but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another. 41 There is one glory of the sun, another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars; for one star differs from another star in glory.

42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. The body is sown in corruption, it is raised in incorruption. 43 It is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory. It is sown in weakness, it is raised in power. 44 It is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body. 45 And so it is written, "The first man Adam became a living being." The last Adam became a life-giving spirit.

46 However, the spiritual is not first, but the natural, and afterward the spiritual. 47 The first man was of the earth, made of dust; the second Man is the Lord from heaven. 48 As was the man of dust, so also are those who are made of dust; and as is the heavenly Man, so also are those who are heavenly. 49 And as we have borne the image of the man of dust, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly Man.

The purpose of body is to teach us finite and infinite ... containment (body) and Container unbounded (Spirit)-> Whereby Spirit substance is obtained through the vehicle of faith (having not seen yet believe)

50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; nor does corruption inherit incorruption. 51 Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed — 52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. 54 So when this corruptible has put on incorruption, and this mortal has put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written: "Death is swallowed up in victory."

55 "O Death, where is your sting?

NKJV

The division-> corporeal (created) and Spirit (uncaused) lies the begging question what is corruptible... evident by existence the created thing and dead image of God made so by disobedience to God (unregenerate man)-> up to the point of total destruction by fire both corporeal heavens and earth and lake of fire (The eternal wrath of God) [for rebellion is found all the way through Millennial times end]... then the New Heaven and New Earth wherein righteousness dwells the eternal state!This image of the Heavenly Man (we shall be like Him for we shall see Him as He Is)... Will God draw from the New Earth's composition to form our new bodies for certainly that would have come from incorruption (disobedience was never even considered in this place of New Heaven and New Earth)...It pleased God once to make our bodies from the earth of old will it also please Him again to form us out of the New Earth? Love Steven

[Bold Believer]

The main problem of pre-millennialism is that it complicates the eschaton and it confuses those who see the flaws in the teaching.

The eschaton is quite simple.

1. Jesus came to die for us.

2. He died and was resurrected on the 3rd day.

3. We are baptized into his death and raised in his resurrection: Jesus IS the resurrection for the Believer. We are IN Christ, who IS the first resurrection. Few amongst us would deny that the second death has any power over us. Few amongst us would deny that we are blessed in Christ. Are we not priests and kings to our God (Rev 1:6, Rev 5:10, I Pet 2:5,9)?

4. Jesus said that all (no some, all) authority in heaven and earth was given to Him, just before He ascended to His throne. (Mt 28) This is the declaration of a KING. Furthermore, that king gave his subjects a mission in that same declaration: Go into all the world and preach the Gospel, teaching the nations whatsoever I have commanded you. The defeating of death through His bodily resurrection places Jesus in charge. The early church understood that. This is the very thing that Isaiah prophesied. The knowledge of the LORD shall cover the earth as the waters cover the sea.

(The nations know who Jesus is. They know whom He claims to be, regardless of whether they follow him or not. Satan tried to resist, but he was unsuccessful at resisting, because he couldn't deceive the nations. The world now has no excuse. They KNOW. The knowledge of the LORD is not the same as salvation.)

5. The Gospel of the Kingdom would be preached to all the nations for a witness. (Mt 24) It will stand against the unbelieving Magogists on the last day and it will condemn them because they failed to believe it.

6. The end will come with fire from out of heaven, at the end of the Gog-Magog war.

7. The resurrection/rapture will occur on the Last Day at which the 'quick and the dead' will be judged. We will then rule as Adam was intended.