The 10 commandments

[Guest Waldans Mountain]

When the bible says Jesus fulfilled the law,what does that actually mean?

ISAIAH 42 [20] Seeing many things, but thou observest not; opening the ears, but he heareth not.[21] The LORD is well pleased for his righteousness' sake; he will magnify the law, and make it honourable.

Magnify the law.  Does this mean to do away with or to make even greater? Isaiah 42 is speaking of Jesus.

Just read the whole chapter. Theres no question about it.

MATT.5 [27] Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery:[28] But I say

unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.

As you can see in Matthew 5, Jesus made the commandments even greater. He magnified them.

MATT.5 [17] Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. [18] For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.[19] Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.[20] For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.[21] Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment:[22] But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.

Looks like a filling full or magnifying of the law to me and not a doing away with the law. JESUS said

[Guest]

When the bible says Jesus fulfilled the law,what does that actually mean?

Brother Waldans Mountain,

I am going to respond to your last post (of which I am in agreement with) first, and then the last two post which you directed to me personally.

The question you posed actually has a minimum of two facets in which correct answers could be submitted.  You have done well in presenting one  answer to your question . . . Jesus came to expound the purpose of the moral law in addressing sin, in as much sin stems from the heart of man and must there be dealt with.

Under the old covenant one need only to refrain from the fulfilment of lusts temptation to avoid committing a sin.  Under the New Covenant presented to all of humanity (whosoever will . . . ), therefore, whosoever looks upon another with lust in their heart has already committed the sin.  

With the New Covenant came a sharper distinction of man's sinful nature . . . but it also provides humanity with a propitiation for their sins, as well as an instructor and enabler via the out pouring of God's Holy Spirit enabling us to be partakers of the divine nature and fulfill the will of our Father in heaven.

In other words, "To whom much is given, much is required."  I think Jesus said that, didn't He? (wink)

• Romans 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
  2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
  3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh [of bulls and goats and sheep, which could not purge the conscience of sin - (Heb 9:9-14)], God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
  4 [why?]That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
  
  II Peter 1:3 According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:
  4 Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.
  
  
  All the sacrifices and oblations were presented as prophetic examples proclaiming the necessity for the shedding of blood for the remission of sins.  They were but shadows of what was to come . . but Christ is the "meat" as Paul says in Colossians.  He was that to which they  pointed, "the Lamb of God which takes away the sin of the world."  Therefore His death cause the sacrifices and oblations to cease to be accepted by God and to continue in them would be to crucify Christ afresh.
  
  

Blind seeker
Concerning the graven images"and plastic pink flamingo lawn ornaments"

Are ya sure its not a sin to have these on your lawn?

Hey Blindseeker
What about a cross?

Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth:

The commandment looks like a 2 parter to me.
2 separate "thou shall not"s

Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me; And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.

Num 21:6 And the LORD sent fiery serpents among the people, and they bit the people; and much people of Israel died.
7 Therefore the people came to Moses, and said, We have sinned, for we have spoken against the LORD, and against thee; pray unto the LORD, that he take away the serpents from us. And Moses prayed for the people.
8 And the LORD said unto Moses, Make thee a fiery serpent, and set it upon a pole: and it shall come to pass, that every one that is bitten, when he looketh upon it, shall live.
9 And Moses made a serpent of brass, and put it upon a pole, and it came to pass, that if a serpent had bitten any man, when he beheld the serpent of brass, he lived.

Ex 25:18 And thou shalt make two cherubims of gold, of beaten work shalt thou make them, in the two ends of the mercy seat.

I list these two scriptures because here we see God Himself telling Moses to do something contrary to the second commandment, make graven images.

The distinction I note is that these were note intended to be idols.  They had legal representation of living things.  Legal representation I say because they were not created to replace God nor take His place of worship and therefore not in conflict with the second commandment, (IMHO).

Therefore, I feel that the reproduction of living things that are not reproduced for the purpose of declaring a deity, or worship is not in conflict with the second commandment.

Back in Moses' day to reproduce an image of something required the craftsmanship of an individual.  Today, however,  we reproduce millions of images of living things everyday, but we now do it via the technology of photography.  It is still an image of living things, but they are in no way intended for the worship of man, with the exception of pornography. That needs no further words.

Apart from photos, we have holograms, videos, recordings of the sounds of countless creatures of God's great creation.  So . . . where do we draw the line?  What is really obedience to the second commandment?

No reproduction of anything for any reason in any fashion whatsoever?  What . . . no more artificial worms for bass fishing?   Or . . . no idols.  

No other gods before the true and living God?

I believe Peter gave the best clue . . .  "Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.  Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God.  He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love."

The Spirit of Truth will always bring every commandment back to loving God and loving others.

If I create another false deity, I do not love God.

If I use my rapala, or artificial worm to fish, I love God and the fish I catch, especially when they're fried.

Am I against any other gods but Jesus the Christ, the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only wise God, to whom be honor and glory for ever and ever?  Absolutely.

This is my persuasion of heart.  But I will prayerfully consider your perspective if you wish to present it.

Peace,

BlindSeeker

[Guest Waldans Mountain]

yo Blindseeker

But I will prayerfully consider your perspective if you wish to present it.

If I use my rapala, or artificial worm to fish,

Im a worm dunker myself

As for the graven images i dont think ive done enough study to say much about it.But I got rid of all in my house. Nor will i let my children wear any crosses or even have them.

ISAIAH 44 [6] Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God.[7] And who, as I, shall call, and shall declare it, and set it in order for me, since I appointed the ancient people? and the things that are coming, and shall come, let them shew unto them.[8] Fear ye not, neither be afraid: have not I told thee from that time, and have declared it? ye are even my witnesses. Is there a God beside me? yea, there is no God; I know not any.[9] They that make a graven image are all of them vanity; and their delectable things shall not profit; and they are their own witnesses; they see not, nor know; that they may be ashamed.[10] Who hath formed a god, or molten a graven image that is profitable for nothing?[11] Behold, all his fellows shall be ashamed: and the workmen, they are of men: let them all be gathered together, let them stand up; yet they shall fear, and they shall be ashamed together.[12] The smith with the tongs both worketh in the coals, and fashioneth it with hammers, and worketh it with the strength of his arms: yea, he is hungry, and his strength faileth: he drinketh no water, and is faint.[13] The carpenter stretcheth out his rule; he marketh it out with a line; he fitteth it with planes, and he marketh it out with the compass, and maketh it after the figure of a man, according to the beauty of a man; that it may remain in the house.[14] He heweth him down cedars, and taketh the cypress and the oak, which he strengtheneth for himself among the trees of the forest: he planteth an ash, and the rain doth nourish it.[15] Then shall it be for a man to burn: for he will take thereof, and warm himself; yea, he kindleth it, and baketh bread; yea, he maketh a god, and worshippeth it; he maketh it a graven image, and falleth down thereto.[16] He burneth part thereof in the fire; with part thereof he eateth flesh; he roasteth roast, and is satisfied: yea, he warmeth himself, and saith, Aha, I am warm, I have seen the fire:[17] And the residue thereof he maketh a god, even his graven image: he falleth down unto it, and worshippeth it, and prayeth unto it, and saith, Deliver me; for thou art my god.[18] They have not known nor understood: for he hath shut their eyes, that they cannot see; and their hearts, that they cannot understand.[19] And none considereth in his heart, neither is there knowledge nor understanding to say, I have burned part of it in the fire; yea, also I have baked bread upon the coals thereof; I have roasted flesh, and eaten it: and shall I make the residue thereof an abomination? shall I fall down to the stock of a tree?

Do you know of any other images made from trees other than a wooden cross? I couldnt think of any. But at the beginning of this scripture the WORD speaks of our Redeemer. And i do know who HE is. But like i said before i havent studied enough about this to really say anything.

[tsth]

(at the risk of getting off topic here, I have to ask)

shall I fall down to the stock of a tree?

Doesn't the worship of money fall into this description?  It is paper. It does come from paper which is of wood, which can be burned for heat.

Just wondering?

In His Love,

Suzanne

[tsth]

And then, to get back on topic,

[wordsower]

Are you then openly saying we are "not to obey them"?

Would any of you readily confess that on this board?

That would help me to understand and respond, if someone would address this question.

IMO-everyone has one, I know, if we love God and love our neighbor that will take care of the commandments.  The Holy Spirit will convict us if we covet, steal, lie........according to Eph. 2:15 He abolished the commandments contained in ordinances which I understand the 4th to be.

[tsth]

IMO-everyone has one

I'm sorry wordsower, I don't understand your response, it doesn't make sense?

I don't think you answered my question though, if that's what you were responding to?

In His Love,

Suzanne

[tsth]

He abolished the commandments contained in ordinances which I understand the 4th to be.

Again I ask:

Are you then openly saying we are "not to obey them"?

In His Love,

Suzanne

[wordsower]

Suzanne,

I don't think it is that confusing.  If we are not under the law we are not under the law.  If we love God we wont have any God's before Him, we wont use His name in vain, we wont make idols.  If we love our neighbor we wont dishonor our parents, kill, commit adultery, steal, gossip, covet.  I know plenty of people who love God with all their heart and don't keep the 7th day holy though.  Don't you?

[tsth]

There is a reason that you are not "able" to answer my question.

I am asking for a "yes" or "no".  Is that not possible for you?

If not, I will tell you why you cannot.

In His Love,

Suzanne