The 10 commandments

[Guest shadow2b]

Where's that dawggone spellmeister when needed?

tiger?

[Guest]

Let me rephrase that:

[Guest]

hey seeker--- nope,no quick scan,read every word,jot,& tittle....I started to scan but got interested so began again from the top.. could you please tell me how we are saved by the law??since the law states we are already judged guilty..

Greetings Shadow2B,

As you can see in my last post, I am making plans to abandon Worthy Land.

[JohnS]

Paul's discourse about himself being a wretched man,  "For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.  For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do," was when he was a pharisee without Christ.

How can that be William? How can that be?

Though I might also have confidence in the flesh. If any other man thinketh that he hath whereof he might trust in the flesh, I more: Circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, an Hebrew of the Hebrews; as touching the law a Pharisee; Concerning zeal, persecuting the church; touching the righteousness which is in the law, blameless.

Paul didn't think he was wretched 'when he was a pharisee without Christ,' he thought he was blameless.

Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss all things and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ, and be found in Him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:

Those who fail to discern the benefits of God's moral law to themselves and oppose it have placed themselves in an awkward place. They call forgiveness, yet reject that given to us by God to change us.

No one is opposing, no one is rejecting.

[Guest]

Paul's discourse about himself being a wretched man,

[Guest Waldans Mountain]

Is the mark of the beast something as simple as not obeying God by ignoring HIS voice and not keeping HIS commandments.

REV.13 [16] And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:[17] And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.[18] Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.

If you buy or sell on the sabbath day are you to recieve the mark? It is the 4th commandment. And ive looked for scriptures that say we can change the 4th and have not found any

REV.14  [9] And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,[10] The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God,which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:

above scriptures  sign - hand - forehead - cup of indignation

below scriptures  sign - hand - between thine eyes(forehead) the LORDS LAW

EXOD.13  [9] And it shall be for a sign unto thee upon thine hand, and for a memorial between thine eyes, that the LORD's law may be in thy mouth: for with a strong hand hath the LORD brought thee out of Egypt.

DEUT.6 [2] That thou mightest fear the LORD thy God, to keep all his statutes and his commandments, which I command thee, thou, and thy son, and thy son's son, all the days of thy life; and that thy days may be prolonged.[8] And thou shalt bind them for a sign upon thine hand, and they shall be as frontlets between thine eyes.[9] And thou shalt write them upon the posts of thy house, and on thy gates.

DEUT.11 [13] And it shall come to pass, if ye shall hearken diligently unto my commandments which I command you this day, to love the LORD your God, and to serve him with all your heart and with all your soul,[14] That I will give

you the rain of your land in his due season, the first rain and the latter rain, that thou mayest gather in thy corn, and thy wine, and thine oil. [18] Therefore shall ye lay up these my words in your heart and in your soul, and bind them for a sign upon your hand, that they may be as frontlets between your eyes.[19] And ye shall teach them your children, speaking of them when thou sittest in thine house, and when thou walkest by the way, when thou liest down, and when thou risest up.[20] And thou shalt write them upon the door posts of thine house, and upon thy gates:[21] That your days may be multiplied, and the days of your children, in the land which the LORD sware unto your fathers to give them, as the days of heaven upon the earth.[22] For if ye shall diligently keep all these commandments which I command you, to do them, to love the LORD your God, to walk in all his ways, and to cleave unto him;

Above scriptures - sign - hand - forehead - GODS 10 commandments

Above scripture-first rain and latter rain - If you keep the 10 commandments

below scripture-early rain and latter rain

JAMES 5 [7] Be patient therefore, brethren, unto the coming of the Lord. Behold, the husbandman waiteth for

the precious fruit of the earth, and hath long patience for it, until he receive the early and latter rain.[8] Be ye also patient; stablish your hearts: for the coming of the Lord draweth nigh.

until he receive the early and latter rain. Did God change HIS mind as to what we are to do in order to recieve the latter rain or must we obey HIM.

Seems pretty simple. It was said all through the old testament, and all through the  new testament.

Keep the commandments of God. Do you also see in James where the WORD says "stablish your hearts" and in DEUT. it says"lay up these my words in your heart ".

Well,  Jesus is the same today ,yesterday,and foreever

[wordsower]

OK, So Jesus is the same today, yesterday and always:

Therefore:

He commanded that we sacrifice animals for our sins, that we circumcize on the eighth day, that we observe feasts and stone people who don't follow these laws and others, right?

at Deut. 5:2&3:  "The Lord our God made a covenant with us in Horeb.  The Lord did not make this convenant with our fathers, but with us, those who are here today, all of us who are alive."  

right after that verse follows the 10 commandments, unless you were there that day the covenant does not have anything to do with you, verse one says it is Israel.

Everytime we see commandment in the bible does not mean it is the 10 commandments, it's not even the same word in the orginal greek and hebrew.

Jesus gave us 2 commandments:  Love God, love your neighbor, that expounds on those 10, because you can't love your neighbor and sell him drugs, but that's not in the 10, you can't love your wife and beat her, or your children, but that's not in the 10, don't you see, we are led by the Spirit, the children of Israel were led by the letter.

You will receive the mark of the beast if you follow the anti-christ, simply, God is not trying to trick you into it, it's simple, don't bow to the antichrist and you will not receive the mark.  If you are saved, you are sealed with the Holy Spirit for the day of redemption, Shout Hallelujia and spread the good news.

[Guest Waldans Mountain]

Hey WS

He commanded that we sacrifice animals for our sins, that we circumcize on the eighth day

These things you mentioned above were written about in the law contained within the ordinances which were nailed to the cross.Only shadows.

As for the 2 commandments Jesus gave us, they were nothin new

MATT.22  [35] Then one of them, which was a lawyer, asked him a question, tempting him, and saying,[36] Master, which is the great commandment in the law?[37] Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.[38] This is the first and great commandment.[39] And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.[40] On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

Darn lawyers! This passage in Matt.22 is the reason you say we need not keep the commandments? Jesus was only quoting scripture from the old testament. As you can see in Deut.6

(Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul)

DEUT.6  [5] And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.[6] And these words, which I command thee this day, shall be in thine heart:[7] And thou shalt teach them diligently unto thy children, and shalt talk of them when thou sittest in thine house, and when thou walkest by the way, and when thou liest down, and when thou risest up.

DEUT 6 [14] Ye shall not go after other gods, of the gods of the people which are round about you;[15] (For the LORD thy God is a jealous God among you) lest the anger of the LORD thy God be kindled against thee, and destroy thee from off the face of the earth.[16] Ye shall not tempt the LORD your God, as ye tempted him in Massah.[17] Ye shall diligently keep the commandments of the LORD your God, and his testimonies, and his statutes, which he hath commanded thee.

And as you can see in above scriptures from DEUT.6 the way to love GOD is to keep the commandments

(thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul)

1JOHN 5 [2] By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.

[3] For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

In John you can also see how we are to show our love for GOD. I have heard many say we dont need to keep the commandments because they are to hard (grevious) to keep.

LEV.19 [17] Thou shalt not hate thy brother in thine heart: thou shalt in any wise rebuke thy neighbour, and not suffer sin upon him.[18] Thou shalt not avenge, nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people, but thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself: I am the LORD.

Again (thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself) Jesus is quoting scripture from the old testament. Do you agree that the people who lived in old testament times were under the 10 commandments. Of course they were.

So why when Jesus quotes old testament scripture do you think the 10 commandments are now done away with?

2JOHN1   [5] And now I beseech thee, lady, not as though I wrote a new commandment unto thee, but that which we had from the beginning, that we love one another.[6] And this is love, that we walk after his commandments. This is the commandment, That, as ye have heard from the beginning, ye should walk in it.

Again in John you can read how we are to love our neighbour.

KEEP GODS 10 COMMANDMENTS

So in quoting those old testament scriptures Jesus was not in any way shape or form saying you need not keep the 10 commandments

[wordsower]

WM,

I posted this on another thread and for the sake of not re-typing it I will post it again here:

Your belief is that obedience to the ten commandments is the basis for God's approval and blessings.  Right?

Keeping the ten commandments would guarantee that we received nothing but God's best in all aspects of our life--just like Adam and Eve. The problem is our inability to keep them.  This is the reason we need the blood.  If we say we have no sin we are liars, if we say we keep the law we are liars. In fact, had man not fallen in the first place, there would be no need for the commandments. Instead he would have lived his life in perfect harmony/dependence with the creator.

So, the commandments were given to point out our disconnectedness from God, but offers NO solution cuz it can't be done, we can't keep them we are hopeless, helpless. Having recognized the problem, it drives us to the only place for redemption--the cross.

I think you acknowledge that this is how we are saved--I don't think you are saying (consciously) that we receive salvation by keeping the commandments, however, it is at this point that we part company. You argue that, having been saved by grace, the Holy Spirit empowers the Christian to keep his law out of gratitude for the gift of salvation--the law being the transcript of God's character.

Besides the fact that there is no scriptural support for this position, it changes the function of the law. Galatians 4:23-25, clearly says, "Before faith came, we were held prisoners by the law, locked up until faith should be revealed. So the law was put in charge to lead us to Christ that we might be justified by faith. Now that faith has come, we are no longer under the supervision of the law." The law has only one purpose--to lead us to Christ. Having done that, it serves no more useful purpose. Anyone who teaches otherwise needs to do more than argue from human logic. They must show scriptural support.

Of course, the next argument is that by saying we are no longer bound by the ten commandments  that we are saying that we have license to engage in all manner of licentious behavior. This is a ridiculous argument and borders on blasphemy. The death blow to this ridiculous argument is found in Galatians 5:13-21

13You, my brothers, were called to be free. But do not use your freedom to indulge the sinful nature; rather, serve one another in love. 14The entire law is summed up in a single command: "Love your neighbor as yourself." 15If you keep on biting and devouring each other, watch out or you will be destroyed by each other. 16So I say, live by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the sinful nature. 17For the sinful nature desires what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the sinful nature. They are in conflict with each other, so that you do not do what you want. 18But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under law.

19The acts of the sinful nature are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; 20idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions 21and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God.

Now, let me ask you, "why would Paul counsel us not to use our freedom to indulge our sinful nature if we were not free (still bound by the law) in the first place?" There would be no freedom to exercise, right?

How crazy would it be for the warden to tell a prisoner not to abuse his freedom as he sends him back to his cell, yet this is the same argument that you make when you say that we are saved by grace, but still bound to the law . No, the Bible is quite clear that we have been released from the law, "so that we might be married to another. The "other" is Christ, and he provides us his Holy Spirit to lead us to the source of all truth--him. That's why in Ephesians 5:15-18 Paul counsels us to:

15Be very careful, then, how you live--not as unwise but as wise, 16making the most of every opportunity, because the days are evil. 17Therefore do not be foolish, but understand what the Lord's will is. 18Do not get drunk on wine, which leads to debauchery. Instead, be filled with the Spirit.

When we are under the influence of the Spirit, the law has nothing to say to us. You want to place us back under the law, deny that Christ has redeemed us, and discount the work of the Holy Spirit. Failing to believe that Christ's sacrifice is sufficient, or that the Holy Spirit is capable of leading us to Christ, you instead choose to return to a system marked by human effort.

I can think of a wealth of "sins" that are not covered by the ten commandments. Is it okay to beat your wife? How about neglecting my children? Where in the ten commandments does it cover using illegal drugs?  These and other behaviors that we would both agree are destructive, and not conducive to the life of a Christian are not covered by the ten commandments. However, when we are controlled by the Spirit, our focus  shifts away from external behavior and back to re-establishing a heart (trust) relationship with our Saviour. Oh what a difference that makes!! We are no longer trying to please God simply out of fear, but instead are seeking to connect with him in order to experience life eternally.

The 10 Commandments were a symbol of Judiasm as much as circumcision. In Deut 6:21 it further states the reasons for the Jews to keep this particular law, including the Sabbath was to remember that they had been delivered from Egypt. The fourth commandment also has the Creation as a marker. However, this law could not be God's immutible law, that existed in heaven before our earth, since there was no creation of the earth, nor any delivery from Egypt for others in the universe. These  uniquely apply to the Jews.

Hebrews 4, says that God never appointed another day to be kept like the original Sabbath. However, read closely and you will see that the Sabbath was meant to be a symbol of the peace one can have with God, TODAY, why is it capitalized and emphasized?  It says if Joshua had given them rest, He (Jesus) would not have spoken of another day, Therefore, "Today" if you will not harden your heart as they did.   To  hang on to the symbol without finding that peace is the result.

5Jesus answered, "I tell you the truth, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless he is born of water and the Spirit. 6Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit. 7You should not be surprised at my saying, 'You must be born again.' 8The wind blows wherever it pleases. You hear its sound, but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit."Eph 2:12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:

Eph 2:13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.

Eph 2:14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us; (the chosen and the lost, the Jew and the Gentile)

Eph 2:15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments [contained] in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, [so] making peace;

Eph 2:16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:

Eph 2:17 And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh.

Eph 2:18 For through Him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.

Eph 2:19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;

Eph 2:20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;

Eph 2:21 In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:

Eph 2:22 In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.

Rom 2:14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:

Rom 2:15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another;)

Rom 2:16 In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.

Rom 2:17 Behold, thou art called a Jew, and restest in the law, and makest thy boast of God,

Rom 2:18 And knowest His will, and approvest the things that are more excellent, being instructed out of the law;

Rom 2:19 And art confident that thou thyself art a guide of the blind, a light of them which are in darkness,

Rom 2:20 An instructor of the foolish, a teacher of babes, which hast the form of knowledge and of the truth in the law.

Note: These were "religious" men who had a FORM of knowledge and that the law in itself is truth but were practicing the letter of the law and not the heart of the law. (Big difference)

We Christians were the Gentiles who never lived by the law but since the Spirit took up residence in our hearts, He gave us the spirit of the law.

2Cor 3:2 Ye are our epistle written in our hearts, known and read of all men:

2Cor 3:3 Forasmuch as ye are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart.

2Cor 3:4 And such trust have we through Christ to God-ward:

2Cor 3:5 Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think any thing as of ourselves; but our sufficiency is of God;

2Cor 3:6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.

2Cor 3:7 But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:

2Cor 3:8 How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?

2Cor 3:9 For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory.

2Cor 3:10 For even that which was made glorious had no glory in this respect, by reason of the glory that excelleth.

2Cor 3:11 For if that which is done away was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious.

2Cor 3:12 Seeing then that we have such hope, we use great plainness of speech:

2Cor 3:13 And not as Moses, which put a veil over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished:

2Cor 3:14 But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same veil untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which veil is done away in Christ.

2Cor 3:15 But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the veil is upon their heart.

2Cor 3:16 Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the veil shall be taken away.

2Cor 3:17 Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.

2Cor 3:18 But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord.

[tsth]

"Before faith came, we were held prisoners by the law, locked up until faith should be revealed. So the law was put in charge to lead us to Christ that we might be justified by faith.

The prominent words here, are "by faith".

What is that "faith"?