The 10 commandments

[wordsower]

Matthew 5:19 Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

In context:

Matt. 5:17-

"Do not think that I have come to destroy the law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.

[tsth]

Romans 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? Certainly not! On the contrary, we establish the law.

to cause or make to stand, to place, put, set

to bid to stand by, [set up]

in the presence of others, in the midst, before judges, before members of the Sanhedrin;

to place

to make firm, fix establish

to cause a person or a thing to keep his or its place

to stand, be kept intact (of family, a kingdom), to escape in safety

to establish a thing, cause it to stand 1b

to uphold or sustain the authority or force of anything

to set or place in a balance

to weigh: money to one (because in very early times before the introduction of coinage, the metals used to be weighed)

to stand

to stand by or near

to stop, stand still, to stand immovable, stand firm 2a

of the foundation of a building

to stand

continue safe and sound, stand unharmed, to stand ready or prepared

to be of a steadfast mind

of quality, one who does not hesitate, does not waiver

I can only follow what the Scriptures say.

[Guest Waldans Mountain]

Word Sower

Hebrews 4, says that God never appointed another day to be kept like the original Sabbath. However, read closely and you will see that the Sabbath was meant to be a symbol of the peace one can have with God, TODAY, why is it capitalized and emphasized?  It says if Joshua had given them rest, He (Jesus) would not have spoken of another day, Therefore, "Today" if you will not harden your heart as they did.   To  hang on to the symbol without finding that peace is the result.

I know the a lot of the new bibles have change the name of Jesus to Joshua. I guess they would have to. But what does Hebrews 4 really say?

HEBREWS 4

[1] Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it.[2] For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.[3] For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.

[4] For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works.[5] And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest.

[6] Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief:[7] Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts.

[8] For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.

[9] There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.

[10] For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.[11] Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.

Verses1-3 Those that believe do enter into rest! Dont come short of it! Have faith in the WORD!

Verse 4-5 He spoke of the 7th day of rest. Just as GOD did at the time of creation. The 7th day!

Verse 6-7 There remains some, even after so long a time, that have not entered this rest because of unbelief

Verse 8 If Jesus became their rest, would HE not have spoken of another day

Verse 9 The sabbath rest remains therefore TO THE PEOPLE OF GOD!

Verse 10-11 Enter into this rest (just as GOD did) .Look at verse 4! The 7th day! THE SABBATH! Thats how God did, and thats how we are commanded to.

Ive seen pages and pages written about above scriptures trying to explain that it doesnt really mean what it says.

Just believe what it says and enter into the rest GOD created for us. The rest that sanctifys us and sets believers apart from none believers.

[wordsower]

4] For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works.[

God did rest....period, indefinitely...He didn't rest for 24 hours.

.[5] And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest.

The original scripture is Ps. 95:11 and says Unto them I sware in My wrath that they SHALL NOT enter My rest.

[Guest Waldans Mountain]

Hi Word Sower

Rather than believe the long drawn out explainations of why scripture does not mean what it says, i simply choose to believe.

1 COR.3 [1] And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ.[2] I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now

are ye able.

I have fed you with milk

ISAIAH 28 [9] Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts.[10] For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little:[11] For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people.[12] To whom he said, This is the rest wherewith ye may cause the weary to rest; and this is the refreshing: yet they would not hear.

whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk

What is this rest and what is this refreshing the WORD is speaking of that the people will not hear.

EXODUS 31 [15] Six days may work be done; but in the seventh is the sabbath of rest, holy to the LORD: whosoever doeth any work in the sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death.[16] Wherefore the children of Israel shall keep the sabbath, to observe the sabbath throughout their generations, for a perpetual covenant.[17] It is a sign between me and the children of Israel for ever: for in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day he rested, and was refreshed.

on the seventh day he rested, and was refreshed - There it is.

JER.6 [16] Thus saith the LORD, Stand ye in the ways, and see, and ask for the old paths, where is the good way, and walk therein, and ye shall find rest for your souls. But they said, We will not walk therein.[17] Also I set watchmen over you, saying, Hearken to the sound of the trumpet. But they said, We will not hearken.[18] Therefore hear, ye nations, and know, O congregation, what is among them.[19] Hear, O earth: behold, I will bring evil upon this people, even the fruit of their thoughts, because they have not hearkened unto my words, nor to my law, but rejected it.

Hearken to the sound of the trumpet. But they said, We will not hearken

(Jesus will return at the last trumpet) I hope your listening by then

ask for the old paths, where is the good way, and walk therein, and ye shall find rest for your souls

ISAIAH 58 [12] And they that shall be of thee shall build the old waste places: thou shalt raise up the foundations of many generations; and thou shalt be called, The repairer of the breach, The restorer of paths to dwell in.[13] If thou turn away thy foot from the sabbath, from doing thy pleasure on my holy day; and call the sabbath a delight, the holy of the LORD, honourable; and shalt honour him, not doing thine own ways, nor finding thine own pleasure, nor speaking thine own words:[14] Then shalt thou delight thyself in the LORD; and I will cause thee to ride upon the high places of the earth, and feed thee with the heritage of Jacob thy father: for the mouth of the LORD hath spoken it.

The restorer of paths to dwell in

GOT MILK???

[wordsower]

Thank you but I had milk when I was an SDA for 27 years and praise God, He saw fit to give some meat!  According to Paul, you should be off the milk by now too.

What do you think Jesus meant when He said to the Sabbath keeping Pharisees:

"And some of the Pharisees called to Him from the crowd, "Teacher, rebuke Your disciples (for proclaiming Him King vs. 38), But He answered and said to them, "I tell you that if these should keep silent, the stones would immediately cry out." Now as He drew near He saw the city and wept over it, saying, "If you had known, even you, especially in this your day, the things that make for your peace! But now they are hidden from your eyes" Luke 19:39-42

They knew the Sabbath, they knew the law, so what makes for peace can't be those. They didn't know Jesus and they got no peace and they got no rest because they only understood the letter and not the Spirit.

Deut. 5:2&3: "The Lord our God made a covenant with us in Horeb. The Lord did not make this convenant with our fathers, but with us, those who are here today, all of us who are alive."

Were you there that day?

Neither was I.

"But if the ministry of death, written and engraved on stones, was glorious so that the children of Israel could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of the glory of his countenance, which glory was passing away, how will the ministry of the Spirit not be more glorious? ...Therefore, since we have such hope, we use great boldness of speech--unlike Moses, who put a veil over his face so that the children of Israel could not look steadily at the end of what was passing away. But their minds were hardened. For until this day the same vail remains unlifted in the reading of the Old Testament, because the veil is taken away in Christ. But even to this day when Moses is read, a veil lies on their heart." 2Corinthians 3:7,8,12-15.

May the veil be lifted from your eyes, blessings and prayers

:a2:

[tsth]

Please see below.

In His Love,

Suzanne

[tsth]

Does this mean you choose to disregard the post I made?

[Guest Waldans Mountain]

What do you think Jesus meant when He said to the Pharisees who did no murder:

"And some of the Pharisees called to Him from the crowd, "Teacher, rebuke Your disciples (for proclaiming Him King vs. 38), But He answered and said to them, "I tell you that if these should keep silent, the stones would immediately cry out." Now as He drew near He saw the city and wept over it, saying, "If you had known, even you, especially in this your day, the things that make for your peace! But now they are hidden from your eyes" Luke 19:39-42

They knew not to murder, they knew the law, so what makes for peace can't be those. They didn't know Jesus and they got no peace and they had murder in their heart because they only understood the letter and not the Spirit.

In conclusion with this sort of reasoning its all right to break the letter and murder as long as you dont think about it in your heart first???

[wordsower]

WM, that made no sense.....at all.

Suzanne,

I read your post and I thought I answered it quite plainly on the previous page, here's my quote:

Of course, the next argument is that by saying we are no longer bound by the ten commandments  that we are saying that we have license to engage in all manner of licentious behavior. This is a ridiculous argument and borders on blasphemy. The death blow to this ridiculous argument is found in Galatians 5:13-21

13You, my brothers, were called to be free. But do not use your freedom to indulge the sinful nature; rather, serve one another in love. 14The entire law is summed up in a single command: "Love your neighbor as yourself." 15If you keep on biting and devouring each other, watch out or you will be destroyed by each other. 16So I say, live by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the sinful nature. 17For the sinful nature desires what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the sinful nature. They are in conflict with each other, so that you do not do what you want. 18But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under law.

19The acts of the sinful nature are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; 20idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions 21and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God.

Now, let me ask you, "why would Paul counsel us not to use our freedom to indulge our sinful nature if we were not free (still bound by the law) in the first place?" There would be no freedom to exercise, right?

How crazy would it be for the warden to tell a prisoner not to abuse his freedom as he sends him back to his cell, yet this is the same argument that you make when you say that we are saved by grace, but still bound to the law . No, the Bible is quite clear that we have been released from the law, "so that we might be married to another. The "other" is Christ, and he provides us his Holy Spirit to lead us to the source of all truth--him. That's why in Ephesians 5:15-18 Paul counsels us to:

15Be very careful, then, how you live--not as unwise but as wise, 16making the most of every opportunity, because the days are evil. 17Therefore do not be foolish, but understand what the Lord's will is. 18Do not get drunk on wine, which leads to debauchery. Instead, be filled with the Spirit.

When we are under the influence of the Spirit, the law has nothing to say to us. You want to place us back under the law, deny that Christ has redeemed us, and discount the work of the Holy Spirit. Failing to believe that Christ's sacrifice is sufficient, or that the Holy Spirit is capable of leading us to Christ, you instead choose to return to a system marked by human effort.

I can think of a wealth of "sins" that are not covered by the ten commandments. Is it okay to beat your wife? How about neglecting my children? Where in the ten commandments does it cover using illegal drugs?  These and other behaviors that we would both agree are destructive, and not conducive to the life of a Christian are not covered by the ten commandments. However, when we are controlled by the Spirit, our focus  shifts away from external behavior and back to re-establishing a heart (trust) relationship with our Saviour. Oh what a difference that makes!! We are no longer trying to please God simply out of fear, but instead are seeking to connect with him in order to experience life eternally.

The 10 Commandments were a symbol of Judiasm as much as circumcision. In Deut 6:21 it further states the reasons for the Jews to keep this particular law, including the Sabbath was to remember that they had been delivered from Egypt. The fourth commandment also has the Creation as a marker. However, this law could not be God's immutible law, that existed in heaven before our earth, since there was no creation of the earth, nor any delivery from Egypt for others in the universe. These  uniquely apply to the Jews.