Attitude of your Spiritual Leader

[noobie]

So I joined this new Church and I love it. My Wife's Uncle is the pastor there so I figured I would give it a shot since we just moved here closer to her family and we needed a new Church anyway. He starts his sermon with "I asked this lady in line the other day to come visit us in Church one Sunday morning" and she said "Blah! There is nothing but hypocrites at Church and I don't want to sit with a bunch of hypocrites!" then he said back to her "You are most definitely right about that and I am one of them!" she looked at him puzzled and he said to her "That's why we all are there and if there wasn't any hypocrites there I might as well be preaching to a wall." That made me feel good as a member because he made himself normal to everyone. I have attended Church before and the pastor there makes it seem like he does no wrong and if you have a question about a sin you committed or was thinking about doing he would look at you like you was a heathen maybe even say to pray about it. This guy said it up in front of God and everyone that he is a hypocrite and sins too and goes through the same stuff we go through. It was awesome because I never felt more comfortable at a Church before. What about some of you guys? Would you rather have a spiritual leader with the holier than thou attitude or a normal man?

[nebula]

Humble is always good!

[enoob57]

So I joined this new Church and I love it. My Wife's Uncle is the pastor there so I figured I would give it a shot since we just moved here closer to her family and we needed a new Church anyway. He starts his sermon with "I asked this lady in line the other day to come visit us in Church one Sunday morning" and she said "Blah! There is nothing but hypocrites at Church and I don't want to sit with a bunch of hypocrites!" then he said back to her "You are most definitely right about that and I am one of them!" she looked at him puzzled and he said to her "That's why we all are there and if there wasn't any hypocrites there I might as well be preaching to a wall." That made me feel good as a member because he made himself normal to everyone. I have attended Church before and the pastor there makes it seem like he does no wrong and if you have a question about a sin you committed or was thinking about doing he would look at you like you was a heathen maybe even say to pray about it. This guy said it up in front of God and everyone that he is a hypocrite and sins too and goes through the same stuff we go through. It was awesome because I never felt more comfortable at a Church before. What about some of you guys? Would you rather have a spiritual leader with the holier than thou attitude or a normal man?

This should not produce joy and comfort but brokenness and contriteness! I realize your expressing the fact of a real honesty within the body of believers but we should realize as well the peg has not been lowered for us but remains as it always has-

Gen 17:1

17 And when Abram was ninety years old and nine, the Lord appeared to Abram, and said unto him, I am the Almighty God; walk before me, and be thou perfect.

KJV

Deut 18:13

13 Thou shalt be perfect with the Lord thy God.

KJV

Ps 101:6

6 Mine eyes shall be upon the faithful of the land, that they may dwell with me: he that walketh in a perfect way, he shall serve me.

KJV

Matt 5:48

48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

KJV

Love Steven

[noobie]

So I joined this new Church and I love it. My Wife's Uncle is the pastor there so I figured I would give it a shot since we just moved here closer to her family and we needed a new Church anyway. He starts his sermon with "I asked this lady in line the other day to come visit us in Church one Sunday morning" and she said "Blah! There is nothing but hypocrites at Church and I don't want to sit with a bunch of hypocrites!" then he said back to her "You are most definitely right about that and I am one of them!" she looked at him puzzled and he said to her "That's why we all are there and if there wasn't any hypocrites there I might as well be preaching to a wall." That made me feel good as a member because he made himself normal to everyone. I have attended Church before and the pastor there makes it seem like he does no wrong and if you have a question about a sin you committed or was thinking about doing he would look at you like you was a heathen maybe even say to pray about it. This guy said it up in front of God and everyone that he is a hypocrite and sins too and goes through the same stuff we go through. It was awesome because I never felt more comfortable at a Church before. What about some of you guys? Would you rather have a spiritual leader with the holier than thou attitude or a normal man?

This should not produce joy and comfort but brokenness and contriteness! I realize your expressing the fact of a real honesty within the body of believers but we should realize as well the peg has not been lowered for us but remains as it always has-

Gen 17:1

17 And when Abram was ninety years old and nine, the Lord appeared to Abram, and said unto him, I am the Almighty God; walk before me, and be thou perfect.

KJV

Deut 18:13

13 Thou shalt be perfect with the Lord thy God.

KJV

Ps 101:6

6 Mine eyes shall be upon the faithful of the land, that they may dwell with me: he that walketh in a perfect way, he shall serve me.

KJV

Matt 5:48

48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

KJV

Love Steven

Wow good point enoob57 This makes me want to do more searching on this subject. Thanks for the input!

[noobie]

See I took it something as like Philippians 2:3-11 "Do nothing from rivalry or conceit, but in humility count others more significant than yourselves. Let each of you look not only to his own interests, but also to the interests of others. Have this mind among yourselves, which is yours in Christ Jesus, who, though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped, but made himself nothing, taking the form of a servant, being born in the likeness of men." Anyone else thoughts?

[Dragoon]

So I joined this new Church and I love it. My Wife's Uncle is the pastor there so I figured I would give it a shot since we just moved here closer to her family and we needed a new Church anyway. He starts his sermon with "I asked this lady in line the other day to come visit us in Church one Sunday morning" and she said "Blah! There is nothing but hypocrites at Church and I don't want to sit with a bunch of hypocrites!" then he said back to her "You are most definitely right about that and I am one of them!" she looked at him puzzled and he said to her "That's why we all are there and if there wasn't any hypocrites there I might as well be preaching to a wall." That made me feel good as a member because he made himself normal to everyone. I have attended Church before and the pastor there makes it seem like he does no wrong and if you have a question about a sin you committed or was thinking about doing he would look at you like you was a heathen maybe even say to pray about it. This guy said it up in front of God and everyone that he is a hypocrite and sins too and goes through the same stuff we go through. It was awesome because I never felt more comfortable at a Church before. What about some of you guys? Would you rather have a spiritual leader with the holier than thou attitude or a normal man?

I couldn't agree with you more. As followers of Jesus Christ, we are not perfect. We are merely imperfect followers of a perfect God, who submit ourselves to be like Him.

Are we good?

And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God. (Mark 10:18)

When the Apostle Peter speaks to the elect of God, he instructs them to, "Be ye holy; for I am holy" (1 Peter 1:16). He is telling the elect that they must be holy.

Why? Because they and we are far from that mark.

But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away (Is 64:6)

For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God (Ro 3:23)

For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all. (James 2:10)

Sorry for the long reply, but I thought it was important to put it in light of scripture.

Our being humble is not a matter of personal taste, but should be because we are followers of a humble God and seek to be like Him.

...Christ Jesus: Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross. (Phil 2:6-8)

When we follow a Godly preacher, we are still following a man... and that's idolatry.

[truck1500]

Dragoon- since I am a new Christian, I simply don't understand some things. Would you mind to help me understand your statement about following a man and idolatry? I'm not being a smart-aleck, I honestly just don't understand, and I wish to do so.

[Dragoon]

Dragoon- since I am a new Christian, I simply don't understand some things. Would you mind to help me understand your statement about following a man and idolatry? I'm not being a smart-aleck, I honestly just don't understand, and I wish to do so.

Welcome to the Body of Christ my Brother

Please do not take anything I say as gospel, but test everything against the word of scripture.

As followers of Jesus Christ, we have one head and one Lord; Jesus Christ.

There is one body and one Spirit—just as you were called to one hope when you were called— one Lord, one faith, one baptism; one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all. (Eph 4:4-6)

We are not followers of our pastors, priests, reverends or even apostles, but if we follow Jesus we are all followers of Him; Jesus Christ.

One of you says, “I follow Paul”; another, “I follow Apollos”; another, “I follow Cephas”; still another, “I follow Christ.” Is Christ divided? Was Paul crucified for you? Were you baptized into the name of Paul? (1 Cor 1:12-13)

We are not like the world, which follows men. We follow One Lord, and His word to us is found in scripture. This scripture requires the guidance of the Holy Spirit to understand, but as followers of Christ we are all sealed with this Holy Spirit which guides us in understanding.

We are all priests of God, able to speak with Him, petition Him, and offer spiritual sacrifices to Him.

As you come to him, the living Stone—rejected by men but chosen by God and precious to him— you also, like living stones, are being built into a spiritual house to be a holy priesthood, offering spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ. (1 Peter 2:4-5)

When our leaders speak God's word to us, we are to pray for them, respect their authority, and to love them. We are also to hold them (and each other) accountable to God's word though.

Now we ask you, brothers, to respect those who work hard among you, who are over you in the Lord and who admonish you. Hold them in the highest regard in love because of their work. Live in peace with each other... Test everything. Hold on to the good. Avoid every kind of evil. (1 Thes 5:12-13, 21-22)

Our leaders are not God. They are not perfect. Only God is.

We are all priests of the New Testament, under our Great High Priest; Jesus Christ.

If we honoured our leaders by holding them to the Word, then we would have fewer false teachings today... because the truth is not in men, but in God alone, and He has revealed it to us through His Word. We should test each other by that Word.

We follow God. Not any man, because we know that men are not worth following.

If we follow any man (other than Christ Jesus, who IS God), then we are worshipping and following another 'god'... which is idolatry.

But as for you, continue in what you have learned and have become convinced of, because you know those from whom you learned it, and how from infancy you have known the holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus. All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work. (2 Timothy 3:14-17)

Please ask questions of anything I've been unclear on Brother, and please also call me to account if anything I've written is not in accordance with God's Word. That's love Brother... to call me to be true to Christ

[truck1500]

Dragoon- since I am a new Christian, I simply don't understand some things. Would you mind to help me understand your statement about following a man and idolatry? I'm not being a smart-aleck, I honestly just don't understand, and I wish to do so.

Welcome to the Body of Christ my Brother

Please do not take anything I say as gospel, but test everything against the word of scripture.

As followers of Jesus Christ, we have one head and one Lord; Jesus Christ.

There is one body and one Spirit—just as you were called to one hope when you were called— one Lord, one faith, one baptism; one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all. (Eph 4:4-6)

We are not followers of our pastors, priests, reverends or even apostles, but if we follow Jesus we are all followers of Him; Jesus Christ.

One of you says, “I follow Paul”; another, “I follow Apollos”; another, “I follow Cephas”; still another, “I follow Christ.” Is Christ divided? Was Paul crucified for you? Were you baptized into the name of Paul? (1 Cor 1:12-13)

We are not like the world, which follows men. We follow One Lord, and His word to us is found in scripture. This scripture requires the guidance of the Holy Spirit to understand, but as followers of Christ we are all sealed with this Holy Spirit which guides us in understanding.

We are all priests of God, able to speak with Him, petition Him, and offer spiritual sacrifices to Him.

As you come to him, the living Stone—rejected by men but chosen by God and precious to him— you also, like living stones, are being built into a spiritual house to be a holy priesthood, offering spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ. (1 Peter 2:4-5)

When our leaders speak God's word to us, we are to pray for them, respect their authority, and to love them. We are also to hold them (and each other) accountable to God's word though.

Now we ask you, brothers, to respect those who work hard among you, who are over you in the Lord and who admonish you. Hold them in the highest regard in love because of their work. Live in peace with each other... Test everything. Hold on to the good. Avoid every kind of evil. (1 Thes 5:12-13, 21-22)

Our leaders are not God. They are not perfect. Only God is.

We are all priests of the New Testament, under our Great High Priest; Jesus Christ.

If we honoured our leaders by holding them to the Word, then we would have fewer false teachings today... because the truth is not in men, but in God alone, and He has revealed it to us through His Word. We should test each other by that Word.

We follow God. Not any man, because we know that men are not worth following.

If we follow any man (other than Christ Jesus, who IS God), then we are worshipping and following another 'god'... which is idolatry.

But as for you, continue in what you have learned and have become convinced of, because you know those from whom you learned it, and how from infancy you have known the holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus. All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work. (2 Timothy 3:14-17)

Please ask questions of anything I've been unclear on Brother, and please also call me to account if anything I've written is not in accordance with God's Word. That's love Brother... to call me to be true to Christ

This was very helpful. Now I understand! Thank you very much for taking time from your day to answer my question. I've noticed that people call one another "brother" or "sister" accordingly. Since we are brothers and sisters, that makes God our father. (I'm going out on a limb here.) This family is WONDERFUL!!!

[givingittogod]

So I joined this new Church and I love it. My Wife's Uncle is the pastor there so I figured I would give it a shot since we just moved here closer to her family and we needed a new Church anyway. He starts his sermon with "I asked this lady in line the other day to come visit us in Church one Sunday morning" and she said "Blah! There is nothing but hypocrites at Church and I don't want to sit with a bunch of hypocrites!" then he said back to her "You are most definitely right about that and I am one of them!" she looked at him puzzled and he said to her "That's why we all are there and if there wasn't any hypocrites there I might as well be preaching to a wall." That made me feel good as a member because he made himself normal to everyone. I have attended Church before and the pastor there makes it seem like he does no wrong and if you have a question about a sin you committed or was thinking about doing he would look at you like you was a heathen maybe even say to pray about it. This guy said it up in front of God and everyone that he is a hypocrite and sins too and goes through the same stuff we go through. It was awesome because I never felt more comfortable at a Church before. What about some of you guys? Would you rather have a spiritual leader with the holier than thou attitude or a normal man?

-------------------------------- well right now I go to 2 churches and have the best of both worlds, but my pick would be the "holier than thou attitude" cause my aunts church is the apostolic christian church of america ---------- it's fun to e-mail their pastors stuffs uhhhhhhhh out of the box. (yank their chains around I do basically) Sucks to be the pastors of the apostolic christian church of america hahahahahahahahahah Yank yank hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha