Halal foods - have you seen them or would you eat them

[OldEnglishSheepdog]

Well Allah is taken from the ancient moon god worship

http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/moongod.htm

And Allah was the name of Said moon God. So its not even a term like "God" its the direct name of the Moon God who was worshiped coincidentaly in the same region that Mohammad grew up.

Hey Isaiah, this has become an interesting question for me, because what you're saying is what I'd always heard until I looked into it a little closer lately and found something that possibly complicates that assessment.

Even in the link you submitted it states "while the name of the Moon-god was Sin, his title was al-ilah, i.e. "the deity"".

The title 'Allah' supposedly means the most high god, similar to the phrase used by the Hellenists in relation to Zeus/Jupiter, which is language very similar to that used in the Bible "God Most High" (Genesis 14:20).

So, if the moon god that predated Muhammad had a different name (Hubal) then is it accurate to suggest that it's title of primacy among gods is different than the title of the Most High God as seen in the first Century Roman Empire: "These men are servants of the Most High God" (Acts 16:17)?

[Guest]

To help the discussion; Allah is not a personal name, but rather the Arabic word for God. Absolutely the Muslim understanding of God is different than the Christian one, but as Jigger notes, "Arab Christians and even a Jew that speaks Arabic would say Allah. The same as a Spanish person would call God, Dios or a French person would call God, Deu."

The question is, if a person's understanding of God is different than the Biblical one, is their using of the title 'Allah' thus an appeal to 'other gods'?

Many Muslims Have Recently Burned Holy Words

And it came to pass, that, when the sun went down, and it was dark, behold a smoking furnace, and a burning lamp that passed between those pieces. In the same day the LORD made a covenant with Abram, saying, Unto thy seed have I given this land, from the river of Egypt unto the great river, the river Euphrates: Genesis 15:17-18

Because Of Their Extreme Offense Over The Use Of Allah As A Name

Jesus answered and said unto them, Go and shew John again those things which ye do hear and see:

The blind receive their sight, and the lame walk, the lepers are cleansed, and the deaf hear, the dead are raised up, and the poor have the gospel preached to them.

And blessed is he, whosoever shall not be offended in me. Matthew 11:4-6

For The God Of Grandfather Abraham And Isaac And Jacob In The Arabic Bible

Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God. Isaiah 44:6

But Bible Believers Have Both Forgiven These Muslims And Are Praying For Them

Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy. But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you; That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust. Matthew 5:43-45

Praying To The God (Allah) Of Abraham In The Name Of His Son

And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son.

If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it. John 14:13-14

The LORD Jesus Messiah

Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life. John 6:47

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_________

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___

Thank You For Joining With Us At Worthy Boards As We Look Into The Things Of Allah, Of God Almighty

And after six days Jesus taketh Peter, James, and John his brother, and bringeth them up into an high mountain apart,

And was transfigured before them: and his face did shine as the sun, and his raiment was white as the light. And, behold, there appeared unto them Moses and Elias talking with him. Then answered Peter, and said unto Jesus, Lord, it is good for us to be here: if thou wilt, let us make here three tabernacles; one for thee, and one for Moses, and one for Elias. While he yet spake, behold, a bright cloud overshadowed them: and behold a voice out of the cloud, which said, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased; hear ye him.

And when the disciples heard it, they fell on their face, and were sore afraid. And Jesus came and touched them, and said, Arise, and be not afraid. And when they had lifted up their eyes, they saw no man, save Jesus only. And as they came down from the mountain, Jesus charged them, saying, Tell the vision to no man, until the Son of man be risen again from the dead. Matthew 17:1-9

And Dear One, Do Know You Are Loved And Treasured

Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:

And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this? John 11:25-26

By Allah The God Of The Holy Bible

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. John 3:16

May You Be Deeply Blessed

The LORD bless thee, and keep thee:

The LORD make his face shine upon thee, and be gracious unto thee:

The LORD lift up his countenance upon thee, and give thee peace.

And they shall put my name upon the children of Israel; and I will bless them. Numbers 6:24-27

Beloved

Love, Joe

[Isaiah 6:8]

Well Allah is taken from the ancient moon god worship

http://www.biblebeli....au/moongod.htm

And Allah was the name of Said moon God. So its not even a term like "God" its the direct name of the Moon God who was worshiped coincidentaly in the same region that Mohammad grew up.

Hey Isaiah, this has become an interesting question for me, because what you're saying is what I'd always heard until I looked into it a little closer lately and found something that possibly complicates that assessment.

Even in the link you submitted it states "while the name of the Moon-god was Sin, his title was al-ilah, i.e. "the deity"".

The title 'Allah' supposedly means the most high god, similar to the phrase used by the Hellenists in relation to Zeus/Jupiter, which is language very similar to that used in the Bible "God Most High" (Genesis 14:20).

So, if the moon god that predated Muhammad had a different name (Hubal) then is it accurate to suggest that it's title of primacy among gods is different than the title of the Most High God as seen in the first Century Roman Empire: "These men are servants of the Most High God" (Acts 16:17)?

Ohh I missed that thanks for the heads up.

[Dragoon]

The question is, if a person's understanding of God is different than the Biblical one, is their using of the title 'Allah' thus an appeal to 'other gods'?

Yes. It is an appeal to other gods.

I'm glad you have certainty in your convictions on this Ayin Jade.

Might I ask, what is the source of that certainty?

Are there any scriptural passages that support it?

When the god they pray to has attributes completely different than our Lord, then they are praying to another god. As for scriptural passages ... there are many in the bible that speak of how wrong the worship of false gods is.

In post 21 in this thread, I posted a comparison of the difference between the allah of islam and our Lord. There is a clear and distinct difference.

You note that Allah has attributes 'completely different' from the Biblical God, and therefor must be 'another' and false god.

Looking over your list of attributes (from post #21) though, I think some of your points are incorrect. What sources are you using for these attributes? I certainly agree that Muslim understanding of God, especially in respect to Jesus, is incompatible with the Bible, but in speaking with Muslims (mainly Sunni, and usually of the al Hannifi school) several of your points seem to not match with what they believe. Specifically, points #1, 2, 7 (in terms of the hate).

Many people who call themselves 'christians' would also say that God does not have many of these attributes (which would be clear rejection of Biblical teaching of course), but we would not say that they should not call their diety 'God'. Instead, we would seek to teach them what is true about God.

My undestanding of the word 'God' and the word 'Allah' is that they are not proper names, but rather titles. Each refers not to a specific individual (ie Bob), but rather is the only title for the One unique being who created all things (ie 'mankind' if we're staying with the Bob metaphor).

To say that Muslim understanding of Allah is not the same as Biblical Christian understanding of God is absolutely correct. But think on this... if I used any other title for YHWH in English other than God, what would it be? Would it add or detract from His glory to use any other word? We could use words from other languages certainly, but in English, is there any other word that would adequetely represent YHWH?

Hi Dragoon,

I'd say that we know that it's an appeal to another god because the Quarn says "Allah has not taken any son" (Surah 23:91), whereas the Bible says "whoever acknowledges the Son has the Father also" (1 John 2:23).

If one doesn't acknowledge the Son, they're fundamentally incapable of acknowledging, or even knowing, the Father, "no one knows the Son except the Father, and no one knows the Father except the Son and anyone to whom the Son chooses to reveal him" (Matt. 11:27).

Now, I wouldn't have a problem eating Hallal foods because the Bible says "So then, about eating food sacrificed to idols: We know that an idol is nothing at all in the world and that there is no God but one... But food does not bring us near to God; we are no worse if we do not eat, and no better if we do" (1 Cor. 8: 2-8), as long as no one around was going to stumble.

I'm actually not too bothered whether people use the name Allah or not.

I do think that there is a fair amount of poor or inaccurate information out there though, and would want Christians to base their decisions on what is truthful.

Re:the Son

I think there is a lot of room for Christian witness in this area though, specifically because the Muslim understanding of Biblical beliefs is most often wrong.

Almost every Muslim I've spoken to on this subject thus far (about 30 total) has thought that 'Son of God' meant that God had physical sexual relations with Mary. I can only affirm that this would be blasphemy for Christians as well.

That acknowledgement of the Son is the key point. I've found that clear resting and trust in the Bible builds trust with Muslims, but in the end they ask for some proof that the Bible and/or Christ are truly from God. Please pray for visions and dreams to guide them, as they place much value on these.

[Dragoon]

To help the discussion; Allah is not a personal name, but rather the Arabic word for God. Absolutely the Muslim understanding of God is different than the Christian one, but as Jigger notes, "Arab Christians and even a Jew that speaks Arabic would say Allah. The same as a Spanish person would call God, Dios or a French person would call God, Deu."

The question is, if a person's understanding of God is different than the Biblical one, is their using of the title 'Allah' thus an appeal to 'other gods'?

Many Muslims Have Recently Burned Holy Words

And it came to pass, that, when the sun went down, and it was dark, behold a smoking furnace, and a burning lamp that passed between those pieces. In the same day the LORD made a covenant with Abram, saying, Unto thy seed have I given this land, from the river of Egypt unto the great river, the river Euphrates: Genesis 15:17-18

Because Of Their Extreme Offense Over The Use Of Allah As A Name

Jesus answered and said unto them, Go and shew John again those things which ye do hear and see:

The blind receive their sight, and the lame walk, the lepers are cleansed, and the deaf hear, the dead are raised up, and the poor have the gospel preached to them.

And blessed is he, whosoever shall not be offended in me. Matthew 11:4-6

For The God Of Grandfather Abraham And Isaac And Jacob In The Arabic Bible

Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God. Isaiah 44:6

But Bible Believers Have Both Forgiven These Muslims And Are Praying For Them

Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy. But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you; That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust. Matthew 5:43-45

Praying To The God (Allah) Of Abraham In The Name Of His Son

And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son.

If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it. John 14:13-14

The LORD Jesus Messiah

Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life. John 6:47

____________

_________

______

___

Thank You For Joining With Us At Worthy Boards As We Look Into The Things Of Allah, Of God Almighty

And after six days Jesus taketh Peter, James, and John his brother, and bringeth them up into an high mountain apart,

And was transfigured before them: and his face did shine as the sun, and his raiment was white as the light. And, behold, there appeared unto them Moses and Elias talking with him. Then answered Peter, and said unto Jesus, Lord, it is good for us to be here: if thou wilt, let us make here three tabernacles; one for thee, and one for Moses, and one for Elias. While he yet spake, behold, a bright cloud overshadowed them: and behold a voice out of the cloud, which said, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased; hear ye him.

And when the disciples heard it, they fell on their face, and were sore afraid. And Jesus came and touched them, and said, Arise, and be not afraid. And when they had lifted up their eyes, they saw no man, save Jesus only. And as they came down from the mountain, Jesus charged them, saying, Tell the vision to no man, until the Son of man be risen again from the dead. Matthew 17:1-9

And Dear One, Do Know You Are Loved And Treasured

Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:

And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this? John 11:25-26

By Allah The God Of The Holy Bible

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. John 3:16

May You Be Deeply Blessed

The LORD bless thee, and keep thee:

The LORD make his face shine upon thee, and be gracious unto thee:

The LORD lift up his countenance upon thee, and give thee peace.

And they shall put my name upon the children of Israel; and I will bless them. Numbers 6:24-27

Beloved

Love, Joe

Thanks Joe

[Dragoon]

Well Allah is taken from the ancient moon god worship

http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/moongod.htm

And Allah was the name of Said moon God. So its not even a term like "God" its the direct name of the Moon God who was worshiped coincidentaly in the same region that Mohammad grew up.

Hey Isaiah, this has become an interesting question for me, because what you're saying is what I'd always heard until I looked into it a little closer lately and found something that possibly complicates that assessment.

Even in the link you submitted it states "while the name of the Moon-god was Sin, his title was al-ilah, i.e. "the deity"".

The title 'Allah' supposedly means the most high god, similar to the phrase used by the Hellenists in relation to Zeus/Jupiter, which is language very similar to that used in the Bible "God Most High" (Genesis 14:20).

So, if the moon god that predated Muhammad had a different name (Hubal) then is it accurate to suggest that it's title of primacy among gods is different than the title of the Most High God as seen in the first Century Roman Empire: "These men are servants of the Most High God" (Acts 16:17)?

I've found the writings of missionary Don Richardson (Peace Child, Eternity in their Hearts, etc) interesting in this.

In contrast to the social Darwinist view that Polytheism came first, and 'evolved' into Monotheistic beliefs, Richardson postulates that primitive understanding of God begins as Monotheistic, and becomes Polytheistic as Satan leads them astray.

As we speak to non-Christian cultures, we should be able to point them back to their original beliefs, which while not being God, definitely point towards God.

I may be misquoting him though, as it was several years ago that I read his books. I should revisit and verify

[OldEnglishSheepdog]

I'm actually not too bothered whether people use the name Allah or not.

I do think that there is a fair amount of poor or inaccurate information out there though, and would want Christians to base their decisions on what is truthful.

I appreciate that, but in a Muslim prayer I think we have to acknowledge that they are using the name in reference to another god in a very different way than a Christian convert from Muslim background might use the title.

Re:the Son

I think there is a lot of room for Christian witness in this area though, specifically because the Muslim understanding of Biblical beliefs is most often wrong.

Almost every Muslim I've spoken to on this subject thus far (about 30 total) has thought that 'Son of God' meant that God had physical sexual relations with Mary. I can only affirm that this would be blasphemy for Christians as well.

Right. That's because that's what the Quran suggests we believe. They also, as I'm sure you know, believe that Jesus' birth was of a virgin, but the Quarn includes conspicuous verses that suggest that we labour under the misapprehension that Allah 'begetting' a Son means having physical relations with Mary:

"Surely they lie when they declare: "Allah has begotten children"" (Sura 37:151)

"They say: "Allah has begotten a Son". Glory be to Him! His is what the heavens and the earth contain; all things are obedient to Him. Creator of the heavens and the earth! When he decrees a thing, He need only say "Be", and it is" (Sura 2:116)

"Allah forbid that He Himself should beget a son! When He decrees a thing He need only say "Be," and it is" (Sura 19:35)

That acknowledgement of the Son is the key point.

You're preaching to the choir there, my friend. I'm very much in opposition to high contextualization.

I've found that clear resting and trust in the Bible builds trust with Muslims, but in the end they ask for some proof that the Bible and/or Christ are truly from God. Please pray for visions and dreams to guide them, as they place much value on these.

That seems to be where God's moving right now, from everything that's being reported to me, too.

I recently heard it stated, 'look where God is working and join Him there'.

I kind of like that.

[Guest]

Even Now He Calls

Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me. Revelation 3:20

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And In Honor Of Mothers Worldwide Who Weep Over Babies

Dads Are Allowed You Know

Let The Son Shine In

Mommy told me something

A little kid should know,

It's all about the devil

And I've learned to hate him so!

She said he causes trouble

When you let him in the room,

He will never ever leave you

If your heart is filled with gloom

So let the Son shine in,

Face it with a grin.

Smilers never lose,

And frowners never win.

So let the Son shine in,

Face it with a grin.

Open up your heart and

Let the Son shine in!

When you are unhappy,

The devil wears a grin.

But oh, he starts to running,

When The Light comes pouring in.

I know he'll be unhappy

'Cause I'll never wear a frown;

Maybe if we keep on smiling,

He'll get tired of hanging 'round.

If I forget to say my prayers,

The devil jumps with glee.

But he feels so awful, awful,

When he sees me on my knees.

So if you're full of trouble

And you never seem to win,

Just open up your heart and

Let the Son shine in!

So let the Son shine in,

Face it with a grin.

Smilers never lose,

And frowners never win.

So let the Son shine in,

Face it with a grin.

Open up your heart and

Let the Son shine in!