Does THIS Doctrine line up with God's Words?

[Littlelambseativy]

We do things to please Him because of our love for Him and His sacrifice but even if we did nothing but accept His 'free gift of salvation'

Did Jesus give EVERYBODY this 'free gift of salvation'?

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Yes, all you have to do is confess your sin, ask for forgiveness and accept Jesus as your Lord and Saviour. It is all by faith in Jesus Christ and Him alone.

[oak]

I was reading these posts and both sides are firmly entrenched and unmovable. However I have a question for the Eternal Security side. The Beatitudes are a wondrous road map for a Christian. What need do you guys have for them? You accepted Christ, the Holy Spirit is working for you, works are just an outward expression or really not sufficient at all. Are you guys, poor in spirit, meek etc., automatically when you accept Christ? How do you use them? I think Eccl’s side is saying it takes effort for salvation. By the way Shiloh, you told me you want to write a book on them.

Oak

[Eccl12v13]

Let me ask you something.....what will we be judged by when the books are opened? Our faith or our deeds....the actions we did or did not perform?

Just something to consider.

It depends on the judgement you recieve. The Great White Throne is reserved for the unrepentant. If your name is in the Book of Life, you are then at the Judgement seat of Christ, where "rewards" are handed out to those that qualify for them. Our actions will be judged on basis of our intentions. At least that is how I understand Matt. 25:31-46.

Does not sound like a very fair God...to have TWO criteria's for salvation now does it?

.

[Eccl12v13]

We do things to please Him because of our love for Him and His sacrifice but even if we did nothing but accept His 'free gift of salvation'

Did Jesus give EVERYBODY this 'free gift of salvation'?

.

Yes, all you have to do is confess your sin, ask for forgiveness and accept Jesus as your Lord and Saviour. It is all by faith in Jesus Christ and Him alone.

But will EVERYBODY be saved? No! So there MUST be some sort of action, work, deed done for salvation. A person cannot just believe their way into God's kingdom, as someone else put it.

[tintiger78]

Let me ask you something.....what will we be judged by when the books are opened? Our faith or our deeds....the actions we did or did not perform?

Just something to consider.

It depends on the judgement you recieve. The Great White Throne is reserved for the unrepentant. If your name is in the Book of Life, you are then at the Judgement seat of Christ, where "rewards" are handed out to those that qualify for them. Our actions will be judged on basis of our intentions. At least that is how I understand Matt. 25:31-46.

Does not sound like a very fair God...to have TWO criteria's for salvation now does it?

.

I do not see how it is unfair. Salvation is offered to all. Those who accept it recieve life. Those who do not get what they wish, for God to leave them alone.

Edit: Sorry, i misread what was written. I apologize. There is only one criteria for salvation: faith in the work of Christ. Our works are only to act as a means to show what Christ as done for us and our acceptance of it

Edited October 31, 2011 by tintiger78

[Guest shiloh357]

Are works needed for salvation?

I never asked are works ONLY needed.

.

When you say "works" what works do you have in mind that are needed for salvation?

And you never answered my question: Do you believe that ONE sin is enough to cause you to lose salvation/get your name blotted out?

[Isaiah 6:8]

The answer really should not be that hard to find....as long as we do what God tells us!

Luke 4

[4] And Jesus answered him, saying, It is written, That man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word of God.

Now if you take the above scripture and add the following;

2 Tim.3

[16] All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

The answer should become quite clear now that we have instructions. God tells us to use ALL of His words to live by AND that we should ALL of His words for our doctrine. Let's see if what we have below meets the requirments in God's instructions;

Are James writings the word of God? Why YES! Yes they are!

And are we to use ALL of God's words to live by? Yep!

And are we to use ALL scriptures for our doctrine? Yes again!

So let's read what James tells us concerning faith and works and come to a conclusion;

James 2

[14] What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?

Again we have James asking the question.... Can faith save a man? Will faith give salvation? Let's read James' reply;

[17] Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

[18] Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.

[24] Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

God's word tells us that works is the manifestation of faith....not the other way around!

Well now......that seems very clear! Faith AND works are needed for salvation!

Is this WRONG?

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To save typing here is a reply to the same question I posted on another thread.

I know you were not asking me, but if you don't mind I have an answer from scripture. I'll sum it up first. We are saved by grace alone, no good works will do it. However, we show our faith by our works. But our works do not save us.

The scripture backing up by grace alone

Ephesians 2

New King James Version (NKJV)

By Grace Through Faith

1 And you He made alive, who were dead in trespasses and sins, 2 in which you once walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience, 3 among whom also we all once conducted ourselves in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, just as the others.

4 But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, 5 even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), 6 and raised us up together, and made us sit together in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, 7 that in the ages to come He might show the exceeding riches of His grace in His kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. 8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast. 10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.

New King James Version (NKJV)

Romans 4

Abraham Justified by Faith

1 What then shall we say that Abraham our father has found according to the flesh? 2 For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God. 3 For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.” 4 Now to him who works, the wages are not counted as grace but as debt.

David Celebrates the Same Truth

5 But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness, 6 just as David also describes the blessedness of the man to whom God imputes righteousness apart from works:

7 “ Blessed are those whose lawless deeds are forgiven,

And whose sins are covered;

8 Blessed is the man to whom the LORD shall not impute sin.”

But how do we show that we have accepted the grace by faith? By our works, we show it.

James 2:14-26

New King James Version (NKJV)

Faith Without Works Is Dead

14 What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can faith save him? 15 If a brother or sister is naked and destitute of daily food, 16 and one of you says to them, “Depart in peace, be warmed and filled,” but you do not give them the things which are needed for the body, what does it profit? 17 Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.

18 But someone will say, “You have faith, and I have works.” Show me your faith without your works, and I will show you my faith by my works. 19 You believe that there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe—and tremble! 20 But do you want to know, O foolish man, that faith without works is dead?21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar? 22 Do you see that faith was working together with his works, and by works faith was made perfect? 23 And the Scripture was fulfilled which says, “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.” And he was called the friend of God. 24 You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only.

25 Likewise, was not Rahab the harlot also justified by works when she received the messengers and sent them out another way?

26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

New King James Version (NKJV)

Hebrews 11

By Faith We Understand

1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. 2 For by it the elders obtained a good testimony.

3 By faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that the things which are seen were not made of things which are visible.

Faith at the Dawn of History

4 By faith Abel offered to God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, through which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts; and through it he being dead still speaks.

5 By faith Enoch was taken away so that he did not see death, “and was not found, because God had taken him”;[a] for before he was taken he had this testimony, that he pleased God. 6 But without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to God must believe that He is, and that He is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him.

7 By faith Noah, being divinely warned of things not yet seen, moved with godly fear, prepared an ark for the saving of his household, by which he condemned the world and became heir of the righteousness which is according to faith.

Faithful Abraham

8 By faith Abraham obeyed when he was called to go out to the place which he would receive as an inheritance. And he went out, not knowing where he was going. 9 By faith he dwelt in the land of promise as in a foreign country, dwelling in tents with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the same promise; 10 for he waited for the city which has foundations, whose builder and maker is God.

11 By faith Sarah herself also received strength to conceive seed, and she bore a child when she was past the age, because she judged Him faithful who had promised. 12 Therefore from one man, and him as good as dead, were born as many as the stars of the sky in multitude—innumerable as the sand which is by the seashore.

Its interesting as in Hebrews 11 shows, they had faith, and they showed it through there works.

This story shows the point very clearly.

Over 100 years ago, a French tightrope walker named Blondin walked across Niagara Falls in front of a crowd of 100,000 people. He then asked the crowd this question, "Do you believe I can walk across these falls with a man on my back?" The whole crowd cheered, "Yes, we believe!" He then retorted, "Then who wants to get on my back?" Needless to say, no one raised his hand. Blondin's manager then climbed aboard his back and made the harrowing journey across the Falls.

Man people believe that Jesus Christ died for their sins, but are unwilling to completely trust Him with their lives. Faith means we completely trust.

http://are-you-going.com/page-17b.html

You see simple belief is one thing, but true faith, is stepping out, and trusting God to carry you across. The works is getting up on the shoulders proving that you trust him.

You are right, simple belief does not save you, but having faith enough to get on Gods shoulders and letting him carry you does.

In a nutshell it is this. Faith is more then simple belief, they are different. Faith believes yes, however it is belief put into action. You see stating that you have faith, and not showing it, not stepping up on the shoulders of the tightrope walker shows your faith to be dead. However, once you take the step of faith, you allow faith and grace to carry you over, you do nothing else. You do not do any work in and of yourself to make it across the rope.

You see we, like Abraham are justified by faith. Not by works. The Justification comes from the faith. The works are the outpouring and the showing of faith. You get works from faith. You do not get faith from works.

[Isaiah 6:8]

Let me ask you something.....what will we be judged by when the books are opened? Our faith or our deeds....the actions we did or did not perform?

Just something to consider.

It depends on the judgement you recieve. The Great White Throne is reserved for the unrepentant. If your name is in the Book of Life, you are then at the Judgement seat of Christ, where "rewards" are handed out to those that qualify for them. Our actions will be judged on basis of our intentions. At least that is how I understand Matt. 25:31-46.

Does not sound like a very fair God...to have TWO criteria's for salvation now does it?

.

Rewards apart from salvation, I believe is what he is speaking of. Extra rewards in heaven for a job well done.This apart from the free gift of salvation.

[Guest shiloh357]

I was reading these posts and both sides are firmly entrenched and unmovable. However I have a question for the Eternal Security side. The Beatitudes are a wondrous road map for a Christian. What need do you guys have for them? You accepted Christ, the Holy Spirit is working for you, works are just an outward expression or really not sufficient at all. Are you guys, poor in spirit, meek etc., automatically when you accept Christ? How do you use them? I think Eccl’s side is saying it takes effort for salvation. By the way Shiloh, you told me you want to write a book on them.

Oak

Yes, Eccl is saying that personal effort is necessary for salvation and anyone who is trusting in their efforts and hard work to earn them a place in heaven will be sorely disappointed.

The Sermon On the Mount is the cornerstone of Christian faith and practice. The "Poor in Spirit" are those who recognize their need for Christ. They are those who, instead of relying on their own merit or efforts recognize they are spiritually "poor" and trust in the Lord for salvation. The same goes for those who are meek. Meekness is rooted in faith and trust.

[Guest shiloh357]

So you believe that it is 100% God's fault when someone goes to Hell?

Not at all. I don't think anyone goes to Hell because of God. You go to hell because you reject the Gospel of salvation by grace through faith. You go to hell because you reject the finsihed work of Christ on the cross.

Hell is the natural consequence for putting your faith in any other than Jesus and finished work.

So you believe that there is something a person must do to go to heaven.

Got it.

Yes I do believe there is something you must do to go to heaven. You must believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and trust in Him for salvation. You must call upon His Name, repent of your sins and trust Him as your Lord and Savior:

But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach; That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

(Rom 10:8-10)