Does THIS Doctrine line up with God's Words?

[Guest shiloh357]

It should be noted that the parable of the sower and the seed is not about salvation. The "seed" in that parable is the Word of God. The "seed" is not salvation. The parable does not have salvation as its object. The parable pertains to four categories of soil and the soil represents the heart of the person.

At any given time, due to circumstances or our own stubborness or lack of thereof, each of us can respond to the Word of God in a manner comisserate with one of the four kinds of soil. We can be hardened, shallow, full of worldy cares, or we can receive the word and let it grow and produce fruit in our lives. To make this about salvation goes beyond the scope and purpose of the parable.

Parables are stories that have one central point or idea. It is important for the reader to keep to the point and not expand the parable beyond the object the author has in view.

Then could you explain why Jesus mentions Salvation?

1 “Now the parable is this: The seed is the word of God. 12 Those by the wayside are the ones who hear; then the devil comes and takes away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved.

Well the problem is with your translation. The Greek does not support that rendering. mēpote epistrepsōsin kai aphethēi autois is rendered best as, "lest haply they should turn again, and it should be forgiven them." The persons Jesus has in mind are the Pharisees and other leaders in Israel and their willful blindness after their awful accusation of Jesus just prior when they accused Him of performing miracles through the power of the prince of demons in chapter 3. He is talking about them not being forgiven for blaspheming the Holy Spirit. They cannot be forgiven because the devil has stolen the Word of God from their hearts. Jesus is essentially condemning them in the terminology of te prophet Isaiah.

Salvation from sin is not the object here.

[Guest]

Both Peter and Paul preached and converted both Jews and Gentiles.

Acts 15

6 The apostles and elders met to consider this question. 7 After much discussion, Peter got up and addressed them: “Brothers, you know that some time ago God made a choice among you that the Gentiles might hear from my lips the message of the gospel and believe.

On the morrow, as they went on their journey, and drew nigh unto the city, Peter went up upon the housetop to pray about the sixth hour:

And he became very hungry, and would have eaten: but while they made ready, he fell into a trance,

And saw heaven opened, and a certain vessel descending unto him, as it had been a great sheet knit at the four corners, and let down to the earth:

Wherein were all manner of fourfooted beasts of the earth, and wild beasts, and creeping things, and fowls of the air.

And there came a voice to him, Rise, Peter; kill, and eat.

But Peter said, Not so, Lord; for I have never eaten any thing that is common or unclean.

And the voice spake unto him again the second time, What God hath cleansed, that call not thou common.

This was done thrice: and the vessel was received up again into heaven.

Now while Peter doubted in himself what this vision which he had seen should mean, behold, the men which were sent from Cornelius had made inquiry for Simon's house, and stood before the gate,

And called, and asked whether Simon, which was surnamed Peter, were lodged there.

While Peter thought on the vision, the Spirit said unto him, Behold, three men seek thee.

Arise therefore, and get thee down, and go with them, doubting nothing: for I have sent them. Acts 10:9-20

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You Know Dear One, It Just Breaks My Heart To See Such A Precious Fellow As Yourself

He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am?

And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.

And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.

And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven. Matthew 16:15-19

Standing On The Works Of Man

Then Peter took him, and began to rebuke him, saying, Be it far from thee, Lord: this shall not be unto thee.

But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men. Matthew 16:22-23

While Handling And Quoting The Very Words Of The Holy Spirit

All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works. 2 Timothy 3:16-17

Without Wisdom

But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived.

But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them;

And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. 2 Timothy 3:13-15

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My Personal

Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. John 14:6

Grief Over Your Possible Pending Peril Notwithstanding

Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:

And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock.

And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand:

And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it. Matthew 7:24-27

I Do Owe You A Followup Post To Our Discussion

But when the Jews saw the multitudes, they were filled with envy, and spake against those things which were spoken by Paul, contradicting and blaspheming.

Then Paul and Barnabas waxed bold, and said, It was necessary that the word of God should first have been spoken to you: but seeing ye put it from you, and judge yourselves unworthy of everlasting life, lo, we turn to the Gentiles.

For so hath the Lord commanded us, saying, I have set thee to be a light of the Gentiles, that thou shouldest be for salvation unto the ends of the earth.

And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.

And the word of the Lord was published throughout all the region. Acts 13:45-49

For Jesus Did Tell Us Who His Chosen Apostle To The Gentiles (And Rome) Was

But the Lord said unto him, Go thy way: for he is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel: Acts 9:15

And The Holy Spirit Moved Paul To Make It Crystal Clear

But contrariwise, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me, as the gospel of the circumcision was unto Peter;

(For he that wrought effectually in Peter to the apostleship of the circumcision, the same was mighty in me toward the Gentiles: )

And when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given unto me, they gave to me and Barnabas the right hands of fellowship; that we should go unto the heathen, and they unto the circumcision.

Only they would that we should remember the poor; the same which I also was forward to do.

But when Peter was come to Antioch, I withstood him to the face, because he was to be blamed. Galatians 2:7-11

And Although We May Always Disagree In Life

Mercy unto you, and peace, and love, be multiplied.

Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints. Jude 1:2-3

I Love You Dearly Dear One And I Pray You Will Be Filled With The Spirit Of Christ

Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost. 1 Corinthians 12:3

And That You Will Be Blessed Beloved

The LORD bless thee, and keep thee:

The LORD make his face shine upon thee, and be gracious unto thee:

The LORD lift up his countenance upon thee, and give thee peace.

And they shall put my name upon the children of Israel; and I will bless them. Numbers 6:24-27

Be Very Blessed

Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life. John 6:47

Love, Joe

[Eccl12v13]

Let's read what God's word says brings about salvation;

Heb.5

[8] Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered;

[9] And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

From Gen. to Rev., God has asked man to obey His laws. Those that obey will receive salvation. Those that do not will receive the lake of fire.

Would it make any sense that God would reward those that do NOT keep His laws with eternal salvation within His kingdom? No!

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[Eccl12v13]

We don't need to be told that all these people go to the Lake of Fire, specifically, since we already know that all of these people are individuals who have rejected Christ. The text says that very clearly in Revelation 20, and I pointed it out to you, specifically.

These are the only people who get judged. Only unbelievers are judged.

Rev.20

[15] And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

If ALL of these are unbelievers then NONE of their names should be found in God's books. But God's word tells us that AFTER the books are open "...WHOSOEVER...", was not found in the book was cast into the lake of fire.

This lets us know that SOME of these that will be judged will NOT be cast into the lake of fire.

According to your line of thinking there should be NO NAMES in God's books. But that cannot be the case, because the books are opened and read.

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[Guest shiloh357]

Let's read what God's word says brings about salvation;

Heb.5

[8] Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered;

[9] And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

From Gen. to Rev., God has asked man to obey His laws. Those that obey will receive salvation. Those that do not will receive the lake of fire.

Would it make any sense that God would reward those that do NOT keep His laws with eternal salvation within His kingdom? No!

.

AGain, the problem is how you handle the text. You isolate texts as if they contain all the necessary information and you ignore huge portions of the Bible. Salvation in the Bible, is used 5 different ways. Not every use of the word "salvation" refers to salvation from sin. "Salvatoin" can refer to, healing, deliverance, security, restoration and preservation.

Salvation from sin occurs in three stages. Justification, Sanctification and Glorification. In addition salvation does not merely entail being saved from hell. We are saved from sin and hell but we are also saved INTO eternal life right now. Salvation is transformational. We are transformed TODAY into new creations. You mistake to make salvation entirely futuristic as if we are not saved until AFTER we die and that is not biblical. Eternal life begins in the here and now (I Jn. 5:11-13) I am not waiting to be saved. I am saved today and I know I am saved based on the authority of Scripture.

You are hoping you are good enough. You are hoping you have done enough. YOU have no assurance. You have no solid hope. YOu have nothing to offer. Authentic Christianity is far better than the slave labor you live under. You are under the law and under a curse and you are trying to redeem yourself through your sin-stained efforts and you are on the the way to hell because your trust is in your self and not God. For all your "good works' you are still a sinner.

You will be sorely disappointed when you discover that God doesn't accept your siin-stained works. "Depart from me worker of iniquity into the eternal destruction prepared for satan and his angels." That is what all your good works will garner.

You need to trust in Christ and let His blood cleanse you from all unrighteousness (I John 1:9). You need to place your trust in Christ and in the finished work of the cross and cease trying to earn what cannot be earned.

[Guest shiloh357]

We don't need to be told that all these people go to the Lake of Fire, specifically, since we already know that all of these people are individuals who have rejected Christ. The text says that very clearly in Revelation 20, and I pointed it out to you, specifically.

These are the only people who get judged. Only unbelievers are judged.

Rev.20

[15] And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

If ALL of these are unbelievers then NONE of their names should be found in God's books. But God's word tells us that AFTER the books are open "...WHOSOEVER...", was not found in the book was cast into the lake of fire.

This lets us know that SOME of these that will be judged will NOT be cast into the lake of fire.

According to your line of thinking there should be NO NAMES in God's books. But that cannot be the case, because the books are opened and read.

.

John 5:24 tells us that those believe on Jesus are passed from judgment into life. A real Christian has already been to the judge and judged righteous. He has had his judgment in terms of his eternal destiny. That account is settled in the here and now. All that will happen later is that the Chrsitian's works will be judged for his reward. Note that his works, not himself, that will be judged, and then only to determine his reward for service not to determine his salvation. Those at the Great White throne are those who have died without Christ. The judgment there is not to see if they are saved. It is the last phase of judgment, the sentencing phase. Everyone there will be part of the "whosoever" "Whosoever" is an all inclusive word. No one who is there will have their names written in that book. They will include not only those who outright rejected God, but thsoe who tried to earn their salvation through works. All of them wil be cast into the lake of fire.

You still have time to repent and avoid that awful fate, Ecclv.

[Eccl12v13]

t

Let's read what God's word says brings about salvation;

Heb.5

[8] Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered;

[9] And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

From Gen. to Rev., God has asked man to obey His laws. Those that obey will receive salvation. Those that do not will receive the lake of fire.

Would it make any sense that God would reward those that do NOT keep His laws with eternal salvation within His kingdom? No!

.

AGain, the problem is how you handle the text. You isolate texts as if they contain all the necessary information and you ignore huge portions of the Bible. Salvation in the Bible, is used 5 different ways. Not every use of the word "salvation" refers to salvation from sin. "Salvatoin" can refer to, healing, deliverance, security, restoration and preservation.

You isolate texts as if they contain all the necessary information and you ignore huge portions of the Bible.

Sometimes all you need is one verse. Consider the following, "Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law."

Now there are other verses that states sin is this and sin is that..but the above verse is the ONLY verse you need to know what sin is. Now let's read again what God tells us in needed for ETERNAL SALVATION. Not salvation from sin, healing, deliverance, security, restoration and preservation....but ETERNAL SALVATION!

God's word's says that ETERNAL SALVATION comes to those that OBEY Him!

Heb.5

[8] Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered;

[9] And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

Now the ONLY salvation anyone should be concerned with is ETERNAL SALVATION! Because once you have that.....does anything else really matter? It's the last salvation given...salvation from God's lake of fire!

And the salvation spoken of above is just that; ETERNAL SALVATION! And God, not me, tells us that this eternal salvation is given to ALL that obey Him.

God is our master and WE are His servants. And what do servants do? They OBEY their master! You cannot serve with faith...you serve with action, works and deeds!

"For he that is called in the Lord, being a servant, is the Lord's freeman: likewise also he that is called, being free, is Christ's servant."

Now you do not have to believe God's word that eternal salvation is given to all that obey. But you also cannot ignore that this verse is in God's bible. So do we just ignore this verse because we have 50 others that says something else? No!

Just as there are other verses that tell us what sin is we still have this little verse that says; ""Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law."

So....God's word says ETERNAL SALVATION is for all that obey Him.

Either you agree with Godf's words or you do not. You do have a choice!

I'm going with the word of God on this one! I choose to OBEY HIM!

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[Guest shiloh357]

Sometimes all you need is one verse. Consider the following, "Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law."

Now there are other verses that states sin is this and sin is that..but the above verse is the ONLY verse you need to know what sin is.

The problem is that God says alot about salvation and alot more about sin than what is in that one verse. The Bible is constructed in such a way so that no single verse or Scripture contains all of the truth on a given passage. You NEVER need just one verse. You need the whole Bible. The problem is that your kooky theology cannot stand up to the entire Word of God and sop you have to rely on just a few pet verses as if they say all that needs to be said. Your theology is really nothing but rank heresy and should be rejected by all authentic followers of Christ.

Now let's read again what God tells us in needed for ETERNAL SALVATION. Not salvation from sin, healing, deliverance, security, restoration and preservation....but ETERNAL SALVATION!

See, ther is your error. Salvation from sin IS eternal salvation. You dont even understand what salvation is.

God's word's says that ETERNAL SALVATION comes to those that OBEY Him!

Heb.5

[8] Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered;

[9] And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

Now the ONLY salvation anyone should be concerned with is ETERNAL SALVATION! Because once you have that.....does anything else really matter? It's the last salvation given...salvation from God's lake of fire!

That we are saved from the lake of fire is the consequence of salvation from sin. Eternal salvation is eternal life, which is a gift God gives to those place their trust in Christ (Rom 6:23) SAlvation is gift, not something we earn. That has been made clear to you.

And the salvation spoken of above is just that; ETERNAL SALVATION! And God, not me, tells us that this eternal salvation is given to ALL that obey Him

God is our master and WE are His servants. And what do servants do? They OBEY their master! You cannot serve with faith...you serve with action, works and deeds!

"For he that is called in the Lord, being a servant, is the Lord's freeman: likewise also he that is called, being free, is Christ's servant."

Now you do not have to believe God's word that eternal salvation is given to all that obey. But you also cannot ignore that this verse is in God's bible. So do we just ignore this verse because we have 50 others that says something else? No!

Just as there are other verses that tell us what sin is we still have this little verse that says; ""Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law."

So....God's word says ETERNAL SALVATION is for all that obey Him.

Either you agree with Godf's words or you do not. You do have a choice!

I'm going with the word of God on this one! I choose to OBEY HIM!

Yes, but the obedience God wants stems from faith. Obedience to God, in order to please God must come from faith: You have to be saved first in order to do the good works God wants.

But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him. (Heb 11:6)

For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them. (Eph 2:8-10)

Your obedience doesn't please God because it doesn't stem from faith, but from a slave mentality that comes from someone who is under the law and is not a follower of Christ.

Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God? Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent. (Joh 6:28-29)

You are disobedient because you have not believed on Christ, but rather trust in your efforts. Your sin-stained efforts are a stench in God's nostrils and are not pleasing to Him at all because they do not stem from saving faith.

[OneLight]

t

Let's read what God's word says brings about salvation;

Heb.5

[8] Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered;

[9] And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

From Gen. to Rev., God has asked man to obey His laws. Those that obey will receive salvation. Those that do not will receive the lake of fire.

Would it make any sense that God would reward those that do NOT keep His laws with eternal salvation within His kingdom? No!

.

AGain, the problem is how you handle the text. You isolate texts as if they contain all the necessary information and you ignore huge portions of the Bible. Salvation in the Bible, is used 5 different ways. Not every use of the word "salvation" refers to salvation from sin. "Salvatoin" can refer to, healing, deliverance, security, restoration and preservation.

You isolate texts as if they contain all the necessary information and you ignore huge portions of the Bible.

Sometimes all you need is one verse. Consider the following, "Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law."

Now there are other verses that states sin is this and sin is that..but the above verse is the ONLY verse you need to know what sin is. Now let's read again what God tells us in needed for ETERNAL SALVATION. Not salvation from sin, healing, deliverance, security, restoration and preservation....but ETERNAL SALVATION!

God's word's says that ETERNAL SALVATION comes to those that OBEY Him!

Heb.5

[8] Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered;

[9] And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

Now the ONLY salvation anyone should be concerned with is ETERNAL SALVATION! Because once you have that.....does anything else really matter? It's the last salvation given...salvation from God's lake of fire!

And the salvation spoken of above is just that; ETERNAL SALVATION! And God, not me, tells us that this eternal salvation is given to ALL that obey Him.

God is our master and WE are His servants. And what do servants do? They OBEY their master! You cannot serve with faith...you serve with action, works and deeds!

"For he that is called in the Lord, being a servant, is the Lord's freeman: likewise also he that is called, being free, is Christ's servant."

Now you do not have to believe God's word that eternal salvation is given to all that obey. But you also cannot ignore that this verse is in God's bible. So do we just ignore this verse because we have 50 others that says something else? No!

Just as there are other verses that tell us what sin is we still have this little verse that says; ""Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law."

So....God's word says ETERNAL SALVATION is for all that obey Him.

Either you agree with Godf's words or you do not. You do have a choice!

I'm going with the word of God on this one! I choose to OBEY HIM!

Eccl12v13, do you sin?

[Isaiah 6:8]

Ecc Do you understand that Jesus says its being born of the spirit that saves us? So look at it this way. No one can work to be born. We are given life. It is up to us to keep it. We need to feed ourselves, and grow and learn, and protect ourselves. But yet it is no work of ours that makes us be born. There is no way for us to "Work" our way to life. Until we are born of the spirit we cannot live, we can not be saved and we can not be changed into a new creature. Once we are given the gift of salvation we are then Born.

Just like any child that is Born of the flesh, a person born of the spirit can lose that life. However that life is in and of itself is a gift. No one is saved by works. They are saved by grace through faith. They need to then work to keep their faith alive. People seem to be confused thinking that they have to work to become alive. This is simply not possible, nor is is biblical.

To make it fit with the Word you must do violence to it and take things out of context and ignore the rest of the chapter and book in which each verse is taken, not to mention the rest of the Bible.

This verse sums it up.

Ephesians 2

By Grace Through Faith

1 And you He made alive, who were dead in trespasses and sins, 2 in which you once walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience, 3 among whom also we all once conducted ourselves in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, just as the others.

4 But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, 5 even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), 6 and raised us up together, and made us sit together in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, 7 that in the ages to come He might show the exceeding riches of His grace in His kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. 8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast. 10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.

We were dead, he made us alive, we can not work our way to alive from dead. That is impossible. You can work yourselves to death however, that is possible.