~candice~ Posted November 14, 2011 Group: Royal Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 955 Topics Per Day: 0.16 Content Count: 11,318 Content Per Day: 1.89 Reputation: 448 Days Won: 33 Joined: 12/16/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted November 14, 2011 I do not understand the appeal to Martin Luther when we have a plethora of scriptures on the issue to draw from. It's not as if Luther represents me, and nor was Luther's theology on the up... one just needs to look at how he viewed the Jews to know that we don't align ourselves with him or his beliefs. So, you can appeal to the words of a dead anti-Semitic preacher, or to the infallible alive Word of God. And when the bible says that ALL have sinned, I know which I believe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~candice~ Posted November 14, 2011 Group: Royal Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 955 Topics Per Day: 0.16 Content Count: 11,318 Content Per Day: 1.89 Reputation: 448 Days Won: 33 Joined: 12/16/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted November 14, 2011 I do not understand the appeal to Martin Luther when we have a plethora of scriptures on the issue to draw from. It's not as if Luther represents me, and nor was Luther's theology on the up... one just needs to look at how he viewed the Jews to know that we don't align ourselves with him or his beliefs. So, you can appeal to the words of a dead anti-Semitic preacher, or to the infallible alive Word of God. And when the bible says that ALL have sinned, I know which I believe. The biblical portion of my response was deleted by those who fear the truth. I read the thread before the delete and I didn't see any scripture Chesterton. Do you have ANY scripture to suggest Mary is not a part of Ro 3:23? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldEnglishSheepdog Posted November 14, 2011 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 3 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 844 Content Per Day: 0.17 Reputation: 118 Days Won: 11 Joined: 12/23/2010 Status: Offline Share Posted November 14, 2011 The biblical portion of my response was deleted by those who fear the truth. The Biblical portion? I'm sorry, are you suggesting that the moderators deleted quotes from the Bible, or are you refering to the link, which (regardless of where it links) is by necessity a link and not a Biblical argument? When you say "deleted by those who fear the truth" is that Isaiah 6:8, or Mizzdy, who fears the truth? It was they who deleted parts of your posts, and I'm just wondering what your support is for saying they fear the truth. That is not consistent with my observations, you see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isaiah 6:8 Posted November 14, 2011 Group: Royal Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 426 Topics Per Day: 0.07 Content Count: 3,633 Content Per Day: 0.58 Reputation: 222 Days Won: 13 Joined: 03/23/2007 Status: Offline Birthday: 08/26/1978 Share Posted November 14, 2011 Okay, the mess is done with, lets go back to the op. No Mary was not sinless, nor did she remain a virgin. That is Biblical as shown. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
He giveth more grace Posted November 14, 2011 Group: Royal Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 123 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 2,049 Content Per Day: 0.32 Reputation: 267 Days Won: 9 Joined: 10/22/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted November 14, 2011 [re: Luther]...anti-Semitic preacher.. Sadly. he was an anti-Semitic man, but his saving point was his revelation, "the just shall live my faith". I am not defending or validating, I just like to talk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~candice~ Posted November 14, 2011 Group: Royal Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 955 Topics Per Day: 0.16 Content Count: 11,318 Content Per Day: 1.89 Reputation: 448 Days Won: 33 Joined: 12/16/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted November 14, 2011 I do not understand the appeal to Martin Luther when we have a plethora of scriptures on the issue to draw from. It's not as if Luther represents me, and nor was Luther's theology on the up... one just needs to look at how he viewed the Jews to know that we don't align ourselves with him or his beliefs. So, you can appeal to the words of a dead anti-Semitic preacher, or to the infallible alive Word of God. And when the bible says that ALL have sinned, I know which I believe. The biblical portion of my response was deleted by those who fear the truth. The reason I quoted Luther was to demonstrate that the claim that Mary was a sinner is modern. The claim goes all the way back to the penning of Romans 3. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nebula Posted November 14, 2011 Group: Royal Member Followers: 10 Topic Count: 5,823 Topics Per Day: 0.75 Content Count: 45,870 Content Per Day: 5.94 Reputation: 1,897 Days Won: 83 Joined: 03/22/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/19/1970 Share Posted November 14, 2011 Here's what Martin Luther said: "It is a sweet and pious belief that the infusion of Mary’s soul was effected without original sin; so that in the very infusion of her soul she was also purified from original sin and adorned with God’s gifts, receiving a pure soul infused by God; thus from the first moment she began to live she was free from all sin. She is full of grace, proclaimed to be entirely without sin- something exceedingly great. For God’s grace fills her with everything good and makes her devoid of all evil." -(Sermon: “On the Day of the Conception of the Mother of God,” December [?] 1527; from Hartmann Grisar, S.J., from the German Werke, Erlangen, 1826-1868, edited by J.G. Plochmann and J.A. Irmischer, Chesterton - Why does God need a sinless earthly mother to remain sinless when He became man? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted November 14, 2011 Share Posted November 14, 2011 Chesterton has been banned so he won't be responding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldEnglishSheepdog Posted November 15, 2011 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 3 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 844 Content Per Day: 0.17 Reputation: 118 Days Won: 11 Joined: 12/23/2010 Status: Offline Share Posted November 15, 2011 Here's what Martin Luther said: "It is a sweet and pious belief that the infusion of Mary’s soul was effected without original sin; so that in the very infusion of her soul she was also purified from original sin and adorned with God’s gifts, receiving a pure soul infused by God; thus from the first moment she began to live she was free from all sin. She is full of grace, proclaimed to be entirely without sin- something exceedingly great. For God’s grace fills her with everything good and makes her devoid of all evil." -(Sermon: “On the Day of the Conception of the Mother of God,” December [?] 1527; from Hartmann Grisar, S.J., from the German Werke, Erlangen, 1826-1868, edited by J.G. Plochmann and J.A. Irmischer, Chesterton - Why does God need a sinless earthly mother to remain sinless when He became man? Hey Neb, The rational is that God in the flesh would need a pure (sinless) vessel to usher Him into the world. The idea is that an impure vessel would be unworthy and incapable of bringing perfect purity into the world, because otherwise Christ would be born of a sinful vessel and then sort of by/in sin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Massorite Posted November 15, 2011 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 38 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,973 Content Per Day: 0.32 Reputation: 36 Days Won: 2 Joined: 04/26/2007 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/13/1953 Share Posted November 15, 2011 I recently stumbled on to this question and people have different opinions on this subject. Was the Virgin Mary sinless or not? Some of the answers I have heard range from a Catholic view to what is in the Bible. Any thoughts here? Mary was born just like the rest of us which means that she had a sinful nature just like the rest of us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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