LAW and GRACE

[JohnD]

I don't know, perhaps this would best be discussed in a doctrinal section, but first I believe it must be a topic of general discussion. The more I read what people post here and at other sites like Hebrew Roots and CARM and others... the more I am convinced that the modern Church would do well to go over the basic, foundational doctrines like the contrast between Law and Grace.

[JohnD]

Unlike so many discussions that start out like this, I am not presuming I have all the answers or that anyone else is stupid.

What I believe I am finding is that there has been a lot of tradition handed down as Truth. And defending tradition long side Truth diminishes the effort of defending the Truth. Furthermore, tradition often finds itself at odds with the Book of Truth (the Bible). Further still, tradition opens the door of division. Divide and conquer is a real tactic in warfare. And we must remind ourselves daily, hourly... that we are at war with evil in the spirit realm.

[JohnD]

Galatians 3:24-25 (KJV)

24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

Right off the bat we can show from scripture that Grace trumps Law. But we must take care to remind ourselves that this does not mean we are without Law.

1 Corinthians 9:19-21 (NIV)

19 Though I am free and belong to no man, I make myself a slave to everyone, to win as many as possible.

20 To the Jews I became like a Jew, to win the Jews. To those under the law I became like one under the law (though I myself am not under the law), so as to win those under the law.

21 To those not having the law I became like one not having the law (though I am not free from God’s law but am under Christ’s law), so as to win those not having the law.

Paul, who studied Law under Gamaliel and was a rising star in Judaism until his Damascus Road conversion to Christ, wrote this contrast between the two Laws. The Law of Moses versus the Law of Messiah (God incarnate). Many have undertaken the tradition of how Jesus did not do away with the Law for believers but merely did away with the provisions for limited atonement provided by the Law of Moses. This is not what the text is saying. Is it? This is not what Galatians 3:24-25 is saying either. Is it?

The Law of Moses still stands for unbelievers. There is no doubt about this.

The Law of Moses is like the law of gravity and the Law of Christ like the law of aerodynamics. Reject the law of aerodynamics then you are subject to the law of gravity.

Galatians 3:24-25 (KJV)

24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

1 Corinthians 9:19-21 (NIV)

Though I am free and belong to no man,

I make myself a slave to everyone,

to win as many as possible.

To the Jews I became like a Jew,

to win the Jews.

To those under the law I became like one under the law

(though I myself am not under the law),

so as to win those under the law.

To those not having the law I became like one not having the law

(though I am not free from God’s law but am under Christ’s law),

so as to win those not having the law.

Sometimes it helps to break things down into bite sized pieces.

[mizzdy]

The problem I have is when its put forth that the law must be kept for salvation, ridiculous. I am not under His law if I am in Him, I am not obligated to keep Torah for anything other than the fact that I love Him, that they point to how we can have good relations with others, Torah shows right business practices also. I follow His Torah as instruction in righteous living, we come to Him in faith, after that the Spirit is sent to start the process of writing His Torah/instructions on ones heart. The covenant with Abraham shows how we come to Him in faith, what it looks to walk in faith and through Abraham we see he did all that God commanded him and through the Sinai covenant we see the instructions of what its like to live not only in a national way but a personal way with Him. Torah does not save anyone only Yeshua and His sacrifice, ones confession and the faith we are given in order to be able to walk in His ways.

John just as a side note I would caution you not to copy and paste from other sites from posters that may be posting to them, I personally find this distastful when others take from one website and post it on another just to put someone in a bad light or whatever the reasons.

shalom,

Mizz

[JohnD]

The Two Torahs placard is mine own creation.

And I am not trying to cast bad light just light.