War of the Words

[apothanein kerdos]

You all can think that the back masking and things are not realistically having an effect on people but I really do beg to differ. I have spent a very long time recording our meetings at work and listening to them backwards, and people do put reverse speech within their forward speech off and on a lot more often than you would know. It usually comes when one gets very emotional about a subject, and if you have a really good ear for musical tones you can actually hear the harmonics in the forward speech.

I spent years making notes of how someone in a meeting could say some of the most light things that would totally offend most of the people in the room, and after people would discuss it they usually were amazed that they had gotten so upset.

For several years now I have worked with mostly non believers and I had to get away from the recordings for they were giving me a real attitude toward the people I have no choice as to whether or not I work with. Some of the things that heathens will say about you are hard to take

It's perfectly OK for you to think I'm totally nuts, for that is exactly what I told the person who introduced me to it......... .

No matter what, at some point we're all going to back-mask. If I were to say, "safe car" in a sentence and you played it backwards, it'll say, "Race fast". Does that mean I'm sending out a subliminal message to get people to race fast? Not at all. It's simply how the English language lines up.

I am not denying back-masking, I'm simply denying that it's effective.

[larryt]

Actually, some aspects of psychology are a science. It is an observable action within a controled and uncontroled atmosphere and can be recreated and tested for others to view, thus it is a science. Secondly, anytime people have been subjected to back-masking, either in a controled enviroment or uncontroled, and it's been observed and marked down, it's been proven that it fails. It doesn't work. This is a verifiable fact.

1Co 1:20  Where [is] the wise? where [is] the scribe? where [is] the disputer of this world? hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world?

1Co 1:21  For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.

1Co 2:6

[O'Dannyboy]

This vehicle god has providd us with it quite complex. Think back to a big event in your life. Like opening a birthday present at your third birthday. Just as an example. Then as you recall it there are details that you remebered that simply get overlooked. Sounds, smells, or where each person who was there was standing....the rough temperature of the room....whether the sun was up, and so on and so on.

When I mentioned "embedding" I did not mean "back-masking". Backmasking was useless. The studies on mental "influence" are quite numerous. You do know that even in supermarkets they pump scents through the air conditions to affect your buying habits. I believe the "embedding" of words into music is possible. Just because I can't hear the words to the point I could sing along with them doesn't mean they arent there.

Just food for thought folks. Not saying its real....just possible. Do your own research. The artists name is Mark Seals. Song title " Blue Highways".

Try a lil entamology on that name. MARK (of the beast?) SEALS (of fate?)

Anyhow, Dig up a couple playlists these kids are posting in obscure forums. You can google the lyrics. They are not satanic in nature as I have found....but they give off a desparate and hopeless feeling. Who else would want folks feeling hopeless? The lyrics don't have to be PRO-Satan to be ANTI-Christ.

[Guest kitkat]

You all can think that the back masking and things are not realistically having an effect on people but I really do beg to differ. I have spent a very long time recording our meetings at work and listening to them backwards, and people do put reverse speech within their forward speech off and on a lot more often than you would know. It usually comes when one gets very emotional about a subject, and if you have a really good ear for musical tones you can actually hear the harmonics in the forward speech.

I spent years making notes of how someone in a meeting could say some of the most light things that would totally offend most of the people in the room, and after people would discuss it they usually were amazed that they had gotten so upset.

For several years now I have worked with mostly non believers and I had to get away from the recordings for they were giving me a real attitude toward the people I have no choice as to whether or not I work with. Some of the things that heathens will say about you are hard to take

It's perfectly OK for you to think I'm totally nuts, for that is exactly what I told the person who introduced me to it......... .

I agree with you other one!!

Kat

[apothanein kerdos]

Where the bible is not a science book when it deals in science it is correct.

I didn't really understand what you said, but what I interpret it as is you're asserting that science is always wrong unless it's mentioned in the Bible. I hope not, otherwise rocket science and nuclear physics would be "wrong".

I did not say it was bad(though it is evil in the way that the world does it), I said it was FAULTY, IN ERROR, because it does not take into account God and the spiritual.

The thing is, numerous studies have been done on this issue and all have proven they hold no effect. When I say this, I'm talking about music that is accused of having "satanic back-masking/embedding". Why would Satan need to decieve in such a way? This comes from a misconception of the way the enemy works. It's absolutely absurd to think that Satan would need to use a back door to get someone to sin. Time and time again in the Bible Satan approaches the front door and is never hidden in any message. Thus, why would he use this? On top of that, if a person is lost then they are lost, Satan doesn't need to tighten his grip on them. If a person is saved then I would hope the Holy Spirit would be protecting them from backmasking. So either way you go, psychological proof or spiritual logic, back-masking/embedding hold no viable or provable impact.

Yes the world thinks that psychology is a science but what did God do without psychology to solve mans problems for 1800 yrs since Christ came. It is not a science by any means. The conclusions are ever changing. This month this or that is the reason for the malady, next month "new" findings support another conclusion.

I never asserted that God needed psychology. If the assumption that if God doesn't need it then neither do we is absolutely absurd. If that is the case, then don't eat or sleep, cause God doesn't need those as well.

As for psychology being a science, of course things are changing. Psychology, like almost all of science, is a fallible science. It's subject to change. This doesn't negate it's effectiveness or importance, it simply shows that psychology, as a science, is subject to change. I have no idea why you're saying it isn't a science. It's accepted among all that psychology is an established social science. On top of that, you're using a shifting advocacy. Earlier on in this debate you were using psychology and psychological expirements to validate your beliefs. Now you've abandoned this (after shown that your examples have been proven wrong) and saying it's purely a spiritual matter. Why the shifting advocacy?

The single MOST important thing that American housewives need is a healthy dose of self-esteeme

This is a quote from a well know "christian psychologist". Notice the word MOST.

What does this seek to prove? That some psychologist are humanistic? Your point?

I have no idea what you mean by this. You make blanket generalized statements and do not back them up.

Oh please, I offered links and evidence earlier and have backed my arguements up.

What I mean by studying the bible is a science itself is that its an interprative science. Reproducing Greek to English is a science in that its something that can be observed and retested and compared to historical fact. It falls into a scientific category.

psychologists think they are wiser than God. If you believe their worldly wisdom you are no better than they. It is the worlds way of finding reasons and meaning to life rather than the bible.

And I'm the one making blanket statements? Psychologist also believe it is wrong and harmful if a child is abused. Am I not to believe this because some of them are materialist? Do you not see the absurdity in this paradigm? While some aspects of psychology obviously should be avoided and compared to the Bible, I fail to see how back-masking or embedding words denies the power of God or puts man above God. If anything it glorifies God to show that He gave the human brain enough blocking power to be able to block out back-masking.

Nothing has been PROVEN. Not when you take a look at todays rebellious youth, oh the front masked verse in the songs is bad enough. If you cannot see the spiritual effects you must not know how the spiritual operates. I have been talking about spiritual things and you do not understand. You can only see the natural. You talk of proving things in the natural and cannot see the spiritual.

That's a misjudgement and again, a shifting advocacy. I must remind you that before I proved the expiriements wrong, you bragged about how you studied pscyhology in college and used it's expiriements to prove your point of view. So please, stay consistent.

As for me seeing the spiritual and todays youth, dear sir, I have worked with inner city youth and suburban youth. Of the youth I've dealt with, they've had to:

* Grow up with sexual abuse

* Grow up around drug addicted parents

* Had parents that took drugs while they (the child) were in the womb

* Come from broken homes

* Taught humanism in school

* Have watched their friends die

* Are addicted to drugs themselves because parents forced them to be on them

* Abused by one or both parents

* Subjected to sexual temptations at a young age

And that's hardly scratching the surface, and you want to tell me that back-masking/embedding is a problem among them? If that was the biggest problem facing our youth, then we would be blessed.

Finally, to say I can only see the natural is to insinuate that I am not spirit filled or have a misunderstanding. Sir, I have dealt with the occult. I have been witness to exorcisms. I have had Satanist pray against me. I am very much aware of the spiritual realm, and this is a subject you do not even want to try to discuss with me.

The studies on mental "influence" are quite numerous. You do know that even in supermarkets they pump scents through the air conditions to affect your buying habits. I believe the "embedding" of words into music is possible. Just because I can't hear the words to the point I could sing along with them doesn't mean they arent there.

There's a song called "sickness" by a band called Disturbed. Some words are embedded in them but you still can't understand them or make out what they mean. Of course, when reading the lyrics, it'd be useless to embed words.

Try a lil entamology on that name. MARK (of the beast?) SEALS (of fate?)

That's just liable. To say someone's name is to mean something satanic is just wrong and shouldn't be done by a Christian.

Anyhow, Dig up a couple playlists these kids are posting in obscure forums. You can google the lyrics. They are not satanic in nature as I have found....but they give off a desparate and hopeless feeling. Who else would want folks feeling hopeless? The lyrics don't have to be PRO-Satan to be ANTI-Christ.

I probably listen to half the bands you're thinking of, of course I'll never know because you haven't listed them yet

What you see as depressing some might relate to. What I enjoy is there is a band named "Stained" who has some depressing songs. However if you listen to their entire album they show that there is hope at the end of it all. Even Switchfoot has songs that lend themselves to have us believe there is no hope, yet they come back with songs that tell us to keep trying no matter what. Now, there are songs that do effect the mood of people, however often times our mood determines what we listen to as well. That becomes a "chicken or egg" debate in the end though, and would sidetrack this topic

[GymRose]

I was involved in a major accident years ago, I had a Jesus sticker on my car and was playing christian music at the time........................... I quite litterally should be dead from that accident............... Our cars hit head on driver to driver as I was doing 60 km/h ( approx 35 mile/hour ) the other car out of control flew over ( literally flew ) the medium strip at an even greater speed and killed the passenger and did massive amounts of damage to all occupants of both cars.

The officer investegating the crash after I was released from hospital said someone was deffinetly watching over you and your son................ I came awy with a broken elbow & cheek along with black, very black bruises and cuts all over, Rhys had a scratch on his neck and my friend who was with me had a cut on her forehead..................... The other car had one fatality, the driver took months to rhabilitate because of the seriousness of his crushed legs, 2 dogs and a girl that were in the back seat came away very shaken but pretty OK.

The officer also said all I have to do is check the tape or music people are listening to and look at the stickers on their car and in almost every case where drug use, drink or wild behaviour is involved the music in the car is heavy metal or music with questionable lyrics.

This man was not a christian at all but he could clearly see the link between music and behaviour.

Also with the marketing thing............. I think it was in the 70s or early 80s they tried putting a song on in the supermarkets at normal shopping centre level and just slightly quieter they put an add on at the asame time for Coke and sales went through the roof.......................... Thus it was banned!!!! It worked too well and a ban was placed on it.

Tis not only sound but look at the adds on TV and all the shows like CSI etc. Great shows and drama but what about the subtle desensitization to death and murder.

[UndecidedFrog]

This is just my opinion. You don't have to accept it if you dislike it. DISCLAIMER: I am not a christian.

Hmmmm....I have never thought of Hotel Califormia as heavy metal.

Regards,

UndecidedFrog

[GymRose]

LOL................... I also said questionable lyrics......................

[apothanein kerdos]

The officer also said all I have to do is check the tape or music people are listening to and look at the stickers on their car and in almost every case where drug use, drink or wild behaviour is involved the music in the car is heavy metal or music with questionable lyrics.

You offered an amazing story, however the music proves nothing of a person's behavoir. I use to drink and do drugs (nothing heavy) as well as listening to secular music. I no longer drink or do drugs yet I still listen to secular music. My attitude has changed for the good and I've grown in Christ. Thus, music really has little if anything to do with a person and their lifestyle. Now, I will avoid songs that might remind me of drinking or anything that would cause me to stumble, however, I do that with all aspects of life and not just music. Thus, it's odd to draw the conclusion that a person's music influences their lifestyle. If anything, their music is merely a reflection of the life they lead.

Also with the marketing thing............. I think it was in the 70s or early 80s they tried putting a song on in the supermarkets at normal shopping centre level and just slightly quieter they put an add on at the asame time for Coke and sales went through the roof.......................... Thus it was banned!!!! It worked too well and a ban was placed on it.

Eh, i'm going to have to ask for sources on that. Why would a company ban something after it was successful? That makes no sense in a capitolistic society. Something brings in a lot of money and they ban it?

[GymRose]

Eh, i'm going to have to ask for sources on that. Why would a company ban something after it was successful? That makes no sense in a capitolistic society. Something brings in a lot of money and they ban it?

It wasn't banned by the company but by the people who oversee how things are being marketed, to protect people...................... Something that is no longer around but was there during that period.