Mutations do not produce real change

[enoob57]

I'm going to second Cobalt here; Valoran, everyone is trying to be civil in this thread now but you....you just can't control your hatefulness, can you? I'm going to pray for a change in your demeanor, especially toward OES.

OES has brought him to the end of himself and his anger in return is the witness of it! Love, Steven

[MorningGlory]

I'm going to second Cobalt here; Valoran, everyone is trying to be civil in this thread now but you....you just can't control your hatefulness, can you? I'm going to pray for a change in your demeanor, especially toward OES.

OES has brought him to the end of himself and his anger in return is the witness of it! Love, Steven

Yes, I agree. But we can pray for Valoran to move beyond his resentment and rage toward believers and be at peace with himself.

[Valoran]

Yes, I agree. But we can pray for Valoran to move beyond his resentment and rage toward believers and be at peace with himself.

Truth be told, there are quite a few believers I respect; my partner and her pastor and shepherd are three examples. Now you may be a long way off from making the cut, but that doesn't mean you need to try to justify it by making the false accusation that I resent all believers, you know.

Not to mention that you're up to your same antics of trying to get this thread locked with your gutter-level comments, as usual. Talk about a one-trick pony. I can't remember if I've informed of you about it before, but I'd just like to give you a courtesy notice that you'll henceforth be ignored unless you actually have anything useful or relevant to say.

[OldEnglishSheepdog]

I'm going to second Cobalt here; Valoran, everyone is trying to be civil in this thread now but you....you just can't control your hatefulness, can you? I'm going to pray for a change in your demeanor, especially toward OES.

Hate me? Is that right? I mean, shucks, I no I ain't to happy with all the fancy talk and all, afer all I reckon jus belef what the preacher man dun tol' me, but shucks I thot we was frends!

Oh wait, that's right, I'm talking to a YEC who cannot possibly accept the fact that yeast has been around in its unicellular state for hundreds of millions of years. D'oh!

I think the question is 'why are you talking to said YEC?'

Once again, I mentioned that I wasn't going to discuss this with you.

Well, since you love to distort what we’re saying, and with that I cannot be bothered, I’ll just keep pushing the point on your most obvious distortion which so clearly demonstrates your dishonesty. You mentioned:

OES, I'm perfectly happy to admit that you won a meaningless game of semantics, and I've already said so… So yes, you did get me to affirm that sedimentary layers can be laid down rapidly. But any time you're going to present actual evidence that sedimentary rock layers can be laid down rapidly, which is the geological evidence that blows YEC-ism out of the water… I'll be willing to listen, though I can't say I'll be holding my breath waiting for it.

So, I love that you’re accusing me of playing semantic games, and here’s why:

You admit that my example did get you to affirm that sedimentary layers can be laid down rapidly, but then say that I’m playing semantic games because I need to show that it specifically has to be sedimentary rock layers that can be laid down rapidly…. Well, the examples of the supposed polystrat fossils are mostly petrified trees encapsulated in layered sedimentary rock, aren't they Valoran?

You know that they’re in layered sedimentary rock. You know that full well.

No one thinks that it’s layered sedimentary deposits that were never lithified, and no one things that the sedimentary deposits lithify first and then are laid down in rock form as strata.

Since semantics is defined as:

se•man•tic (s -m n t k) also se•man•ti•cal (-t -k l)

adj.

1. Of or relating to meaning, especially meaning in language.

2. Of, relating to, or according to the science of semantics.

(source: http://www.thefreedictionary.com/semantic)

... and since you knew full well that the example in question is an example of sedimentary rock strata, and you knew full well that rocks aren’t layered into strata but lithify into rocks after layering, then you know all along that I was clearly not manipulating semantics in any devious way, and I simply won the point.

By stark contrast you, my friend, are objectively and demonstrably playing semantic games by pretending that we needed to clarify that it was sedimentary rocks that were laid down, when of course it was and of course it must be, and of course you knew that so it was a dispute over an unnecessary semantic qualifier.

If you can admit that I told you ahead of time that my point was valid (that I would have you demonstrate that sedimentary deposits can be laid down rapidly) and you affirmed it’s valid just like I told you that you would, and then you decided to try to save face by playing semantic games and then accusing me of the fault for which you alone were guilty, then you’ll have reestablished your integrity.

But you won't be able to do that, will you?

And otherwise, clearly I can’t trust a word you say and why would I talk to you?

By the way, we had an evolutionary Geneticist here for a while named Don Fanucci. You’d like him. Anyways, his response to some material that was presented to him by Dr. Walt Brown was that Dr. Brown was in no position whatsoever to teach on genetics since his background was in Engineering. He so frequently repeated the point (and if you don’t believe me go look him up, it wasn’t that long ago) that it’s just hard to imagine how to appreciate your ad hominine attacks on a Biochemist like Behe.

Maybe ask Don if he can deputize you in the name of Genetics or something. That might help your personal attacks to carry more weight with us.

Anyways, since you’re not going to admit that I had a point and therefore we’re not going to enter into a serious discussion, please just let me know how many converts your insults here are gaining you. I’d like to know how many saints you’re emptying out of the kingdom, so let’s just start the count here at 0 and start adding when you get one, OK?

Thanks.

[MorningGlory]

Yes, I agree. But we can pray for Valoran to move beyond his resentment and rage toward believers and be at peace with himself.

Truth be told, there are quite a few believers I respect; my partner and her pastor and shepherd are three examples. Now you may be a long way off from making the cut, but that doesn't mean you need to try to justify it by making the false accusation that I resent all believers, you know.

Not to mention that you're up to your same antics of trying to get this thread locked with your gutter-level comments, as usual. Talk about a one-trick pony. I can't remember if I've informed of you about it before, but I'd just like to give you a courtesy notice that you'll henceforth be ignored unless you actually have anything useful or relevant to say.

Gutter level comments? Where on earth do you come from? I have tried to be civil in the past day or so, having seen that I have been too harsh. Nothing changes in YOUR demeanor however; no matter what a believer says to you, you're rude, disrespectful and refuse to answer questions put to you. I don't want to get this thread locked; I think it's very informative for a lot of people and let's them see the participants for who they really are. Mark this down; this post is VERY relevant to you, if you know what I mean.

[~candice~]

Thanks Candice,

OK, so again, if anyone other than Valoran wants to discuss this issue, I think this video clip summarizes the findings from the naturalist perspective very well:

*** edit by Candice, the youtube links won't work in this forum, so I put it here for you

***

I'm not complaining, I'm just curious. Why don't we just allow people to post links to videos in any forum?

Videos posted in this forum won't actually work. All videos are posted in the Video subforum to be reviewed before appearing public. Unfortunately, in allowing the posting of videos there is a huge risk of abuse, as you could imagine .

[OldEnglishSheepdog]

Videos posted in this forum won't actually work. All videos are posted in the Video subforum to be reviewed before appearing public. Unfortunately, in allowing the posting of videos there is a huge risk of abuse, as you could imagine .

Oh I gotcha. I didn't think of people posting explicit videos or whatever.

I only posted one or two before they caught on and put a stop to it.

[~candice~]

Videos posted in this forum won't actually work. All videos are posted in the Video subforum to be reviewed before appearing public. Unfortunately, in allowing the posting of videos there is a huge risk of abuse, as you could imagine .

Oh I gotcha. I didn't think of people posting explicit videos or whatever.

I only posted one or two before they caught on and put a stop to it.

[Valoran]

So, I love that you’re accusing me of playing semantic games, and here’s why:

You admit that my example did get you to affirm that sedimentary layers can be laid down rapidly, but then say that I’m playing semantic games because I need to show that it specifically has to be sedimentary rock layers that can be laid down rapidly…. Well, the examples of the supposed polystrat fossils are mostly petrified trees encapsulated in layered sedimentary rock, aren't they Valoran?

You know that they’re in layered sedimentary rock. You know that full well.

No one thinks that it’s layered sedimentary deposits that were never lithified, and no one things that the sedimentary deposits lithify first and then are laid down in rock form as strata.

OES, I just want to confirm something at this point to make sure we're still even on the same page, because I don't know whether you're serious anymore. Are you trying to argue that polystrate fossils debunk geological evidence against a young Earth, or do you just want me to concede that you scored a point off me? Because if it's the latter, I've repeatedly told you that I'm happy to admit you got the better of me. Wear it with pride, or do whatever you want with it. But if it's the former, have you really read the links I posted instead of simply jumping on a sentence and triumphantly going "ah ha!"?

By the way, we had an evolutionary Geneticist here for a while named Don Fanucci. You’d like him. Anyways, his response to some material that was presented to him by Dr. Walt Brown was that Dr. Brown was in no position whatsoever to teach on genetics since his background was in Engineering. He so frequently repeated the point (and if you don’t believe me go look him up, it wasn’t that long ago) that it’s just hard to imagine how to appreciate your ad hominine attacks on a Biochemist like Behe.

There's no element of ad hominem whatsoever regarding my comments regarding Behe. He is a sham who has been repeatedly defeated by both the courts and the scientific community. If I were really resorting to ad hominems, I would have simply dismissed his research out of hand instead of constantly asking you to link us to his work so we can read and discuss it. Why haven't you done that, by the way?

[Guest]

So, I love that you’re accusing me of playing semantic games, and here’s why:

You admit that my example did get you to affirm that sedimentary layers can be laid down rapidly, but then say that I’m playing semantic games because I need to show that it specifically has to be sedimentary rock layers that can be laid down rapidly…. Well, the examples of the supposed polystrate fossils are mostly petrified trees encapsulated in layered sedimentary rock, aren't they Valoran?

You know that they’re in layered sedimentary rock. You know that full well.

No one thinks that it’s layered sedimentary deposits that were never lithified, and no one things that the sedimentary deposits lithify first and then are laid down in rock form as strata....

OES, I just want to confirm something at this point to make sure we're still even on the same page, because I don't know whether you're serious anymore. Are you trying to argue that polystrate fossils debunk geological evidence against a young Earth, or do you just want me to concede that you scored a point off me? Because if it's the latter, I've repeatedly told you that I'm happy to admit you got the better of me. Wear it with pride, or do whatever you want with it. But if it's the former, have you really read the links I posted instead of simply jumping on a sentence and triumphantly going "ah ha!"?....

Evolution, That mother goddess Of The Hundred Million (Trillion?) Year Creep

Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ. Colossians 2:8

Existing To Keep The Simple From Knowing Their LORD God Creator

See now that I, even I, am he, and there is no god with me: I kill, and I make alive; I wound, and I heal: neither is there any that can deliver out of my hand. For I lift up my hand to heaven, and say, I live for ever. Deuteronomy 32:39-40

And To Blaspheme His Mighty Power

Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Genesis 3:1(a-d)

Or The Word Of God

Thy word is true from the beginning: and every one of thy righteous judgments endureth for ever. Psalms 119:160

Showing His Power For Whosoever Would See His Hand

And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof. Genesis 2:19

And Who Would Desire To Know Him

And ye shall seek me, and find me, when ye shall search for me with all your heart. Jeremiah 29:13

~

Two Choices

For all the gods of the nations are idols: but the LORD made the heavens. Psalms 96:5

For they served idols, whereof the LORD had said unto them, Ye shall not do this thing. 2 Kings 17:12

That Creepy goddess Of Chaos

For rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft, and stubbornness is as iniquity and idolatry. 1 Samuel 15:23

Or The LORD God Of Power And Of Might

For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible,

whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

And he is before all things, and by him all things consist. Colossians 1:16-17

The LORD Of Mercy And Of Grace

My soul hath them still in remembrance, and is humbled in me.

This I recall to my mind, therefore have I hope.

It is of the LORD's mercies that we are not consumed, because his compassions fail not.

They are new every morning: great is thy faithfulness. Lamentations 3:20-23

Be Wise

Now when Jesus was born in Bethlehem of Judaea in the days of Herod the king, behold, there came wise men from the east to Jerusalem,

Saying, Where is he that is born King of the Jews? for we have seen his star in the east, and are come to worship him. Matthew 2:1-2

Love, Joe