Guest yod Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 Is anyone "justifying" those actions? When you diminish the damage done by christian leaders against the entire jewish race then, yes, you are justifying and condoning them. Whenever an honest assessment of past sins of the greco-church is "glossed over to make it more palatable" (as you've continually done) then evil is allowed to continue. By standing silent against these sins, you are a willing accomplice Leviticus 5 1 “‘If anyone sins because they do not speak up when they hear a public charge to testify regarding something they have seen or learned about, they will be held responsible. What is not justifed according to the Word of God is holding a grudge for 1500+ years, or for any length of time. Who is holding a grudge? We're asking that Christians do the christian thing. Forgive, repent, show mercy, love.... But a grudge can only be held once an action is over. Christian bigotry (both real and theological) against the Jews has never ended, as your posts make very clear. You pontificate about grudges, yet you have no problem continuing the grudge greco-church has perpetrated against the Jews about being the killers of Christ, even though the scriptures make it clear that is a lie.... Clearly you are continuing the rhetoric used to justify murder by your predecessors in Replacement Theology. That makes you just as guilty according to the scriptures. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nebula Posted February 17, 2012 Group: Royal Member Followers: 10 Topic Count: 5,823 Topics Per Day: 0.75 Content Count: 45,870 Content Per Day: 5.93 Reputation: 1,897 Days Won: 83 Joined: 03/22/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/19/1970 Share Posted February 17, 2012 (edited) nebula: To repeat what I have said before - it isn't grudges they are harboring so much as it is fear. Do you have any idea how much fear is within their hearts that they will be persecuted again? Do you know how much Christian theology went into the Holocaust? Eleanorr: It's not any Christian theology that I know about. It's not any Christian theology that I see advocated anywhere today. It's certainly not in mainline Prostestanism. Where are you seeing this theology advocated? It's all over the place. If you will watch even just 10 minutes of this video [Edit: watch from about minute 21], you will see its avocation by modern theologians and scholars: Edited February 18, 2012 by nebula Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest yod Posted February 18, 2012 Share Posted February 18, 2012 Where belief in Yeshua (Jesus) as the Messiah was considered an heretical sect of Judaism in the very beginning, belief in Jesus now is considered by the Jewish population as a threat (if not one of the greatest threats) to their existence as a people. This is likewise confusing. Is God's arm too short? Do they not believe there are still promises of God to them which still remain to be fulfilled to them? Do they think they will cease to exist as a people before God fulfills the promises they believe remain to be fulfilled to them? That's a problem of faith. . .if they believe in promises yet to be fulfilled by God, their fear of ceasing to exist is absolutely groundless and irrational. It's a very rational survival instinct. They have experienced 2,000 years of existential threats from the "church" and have developed a fear of all things christian. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest yod Posted February 18, 2012 Share Posted February 18, 2012 Do you know how much Christian theology went into the Holocaust? This is another confusion (as there were in posts #276, 277, 278, 282) which needs to be sorted out. "Christian theolgy" is either based in the NT, or it is not. 1) If it is based in statements of the NT (e.g., Ac 2:23, 3:15, 5:30, 7:52; 1Th 2:14b-15; Mt 26:4; Jn 5:18, 7:1, 19, 8:37, 40, 44, 11:53-54, 17:19-20, 25), its NT basis can still be wrongly applied. 2) If it is not hased in the NT, then it is not Christian theology, and to call it such is a misnomer. In the case of "Christian theology" that went into the Holocaust, we are dealing with case 1). That being so, we must be clear about the difference between the NT vs. the wrong application of the NT. Wrong application of the NT does not negate the faultless right NT. It negates only its wrong application. In throwing out the wrong application, we must not throw out the baby (NT) with the dirty bath water (wrong application). So it's time to stop identifying a wrong application of the NT with the faultless right NT itself. Those who used the NT to justify murder of Jews wrongly applied the NT. THEY WERE WRONG. And those who negate statements of the NT, to negate guilt of those Jews who murdered Jesus, are also wrong. As I've said before, the only remedy for wrong application of the NT is right application of the NT--"Love your enemies." If it's not based on the WHOLE bible, then it's not biblical theology. And that is the problem...interpreting the Newer Covernant Scriptures apart from their very foundation gets the kind of theological weirdness that can justify even murder. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nebula Posted February 18, 2012 Group: Royal Member Followers: 10 Topic Count: 5,823 Topics Per Day: 0.75 Content Count: 45,870 Content Per Day: 5.93 Reputation: 1,897 Days Won: 83 Joined: 03/22/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/19/1970 Share Posted February 18, 2012 nebula: To repeat what I have said before - it isn't grudges they are harboring so much as it is fear. Do you have any idea how much fear is within their hearts that they will be persecuted again? Do you know how much Christian theology went into the Holocaust? Eleanorr: It's not any Christian theology that I know about. It's not any Christian theology that I see advocated anywhere today. It's certainly not in mainline Prostestanism. Where are you seeing this theology advocated? It's all over the place. If you will watch even just 10 minutes of this video [Edit: watch from about minute 21], you will see its avocation by modern theologians and scholars: Thanks. All I can say is that I've read the last chapter of the Book, and I know how it is all going to end. . .and it ain't pretty. Not much we can do about that. Did you see the video? Did you hear what is being spoken? I do not understand how your words relate to this at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nebula Posted February 18, 2012 Group: Royal Member Followers: 10 Topic Count: 5,823 Topics Per Day: 0.75 Content Count: 45,870 Content Per Day: 5.93 Reputation: 1,897 Days Won: 83 Joined: 03/22/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/19/1970 Share Posted February 18, 2012 Where belief in Yeshua (Jesus) as the Messiah was considered an heretical sect of Judaism in the very beginning, belief in Jesus now is considered by the Jewish population as a threat (if not one of the greatest threats) to their existence as a people. This is likewise confusing. Is God's arm too short? Do they not believe there are still promises of God to them which still remain to be fulfilled to them? Do they think they will cease to exist as a people before God fulfills the promises they believe remain to be fulfilled to them? That's a problem of faith. . .if they believe in promises yet to be fulfilled by God, their fear of ceasing to exist is absolutely groundless and irrational. This is one of the most cold-hearted, callous statements I have ever heard. May you know the brokenness of God's heart for the souls lost without Him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nebula Posted February 18, 2012 Group: Royal Member Followers: 10 Topic Count: 5,823 Topics Per Day: 0.75 Content Count: 45,870 Content Per Day: 5.93 Reputation: 1,897 Days Won: 83 Joined: 03/22/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/19/1970 Share Posted February 18, 2012 And those who negate statements of the NT, to negate guilt of those Jews who murdered Jesus, are also wrong. No one is negating Caiaphas and Annas and the lot who plotted against Jesus and stong-armed Pilate into pronouncing a sentence against Jesus. The objection is to the use of the phrase "the Jews" - as if every single one of the Jews were and are guilty of Jesus' death. If it were not for "the Jews", you would never have known Jesus, for it was "the Jews" who spread the message of the Gospel to the Gentiles. If it wasn't for "the Jews" you wouldn't have the Bible either, for all but two books in there were written by "the Jews". As I've said before, the only remedy for wrong application of the NT is right application of the NT--"Love your enemies." It would be nice if you expressed anything that could be seen as love for the Jews. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~candice~ Posted February 18, 2012 Group: Royal Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 955 Topics Per Day: 0.16 Content Count: 11,318 Content Per Day: 1.89 Reputation: 448 Days Won: 33 Joined: 12/16/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted February 18, 2012 Come on folks... this is getting a tad embarrassing. Enough with the semantics and personal remarks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~candice~ Posted February 19, 2012 Group: Royal Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 955 Topics Per Day: 0.16 Content Count: 11,318 Content Per Day: 1.89 Reputation: 448 Days Won: 33 Joined: 12/16/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted February 19, 2012 It would be nice if you expressed anything that could be seen as love for the Jews. I'm sorry, but I don't personally view people in terms of their ethnicity. If I have to divide them up at all, it's between believers and unbelievers in Jesus Christ. Which is a real shame, because the bible continues to point to a special future for the Jews. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nebula Posted February 19, 2012 Group: Royal Member Followers: 10 Topic Count: 5,823 Topics Per Day: 0.75 Content Count: 45,870 Content Per Day: 5.93 Reputation: 1,897 Days Won: 83 Joined: 03/22/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/19/1970 Share Posted February 19, 2012 nebula: Do you know how much Christian theology went into the Holocaust? Eleanorr: ... Where are you seeing this theology advocated? It's all over the place. If you will watch even just 10 minutes of this video [Edit: watch from about minute 21], you will see its avocation by modern theologians and scholars: Thanks. All I can say is that I've read the last chapter of the Book, and I know how it is all going to end. . .and it ain't pretty. Not much we can do about that. Did you see the video? Did you hear what is being spoken? I do not understand how your words relate to this at all. I didn't listen to the whole things, but what I did hear seemed to indicate that things were not going favorably. It seems that everything which transpires these days is not going favorably. And I guess I don't expect that to really change, and there is only one way I know of to explain it. It was that explanation I was giving you. I feel that way pretty much about everything that is going on, not just what is going on with Israel. Eleanor, you asked: "Where are you seeing this theology advocated?" I showed you via the video where this theology is seen being advocated - by renowned Christian leaders. Your response has nothing whatsoever to do with the question. Why do you keep doing this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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