Resurrection body of women?

[Ephesians__6_24]

How about yes or no responses to make it simple? I like direct answers.

Are childless married women not saved even when they know Jesus?

Are women incapable of being saved and resurrected as women?

- What kind of body is my question though.. will it be a distinct female body.

- (Or is this a question that can be answered...)

We have similar questions...

How would you answer your questions?

Are childless married women not saved even when they know Jesus?

Given that:

1 Timothy 2:15

Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety.

and

1 Corinthians 7

³⁴There is difference also between a wife and a virgin. The unmarried woman careth for the things of the Lord, that she may be holy both in body and in spirit: but she that is married careth for the things of the world, how she may please her husband.

³⁵And this I speak for your own profit; not that I may cast a snare upon you, but for that which is comely, and that ye may attend upon the Lord without distraction.

"this I speak for your own profit"

if she dies childless, and women will be saved in childbearing... then it wouldn't be profitable for the woman to be a virgin...

So how would you explain 1 Timothy 2:15 and 1 Corinthians 7:35?

- Could it be that if women choose to childbear, then they will be saved in it... "if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety." 1 Timothy 2:15

- (another question... could "faith and charity and holiness with sobriety" be relating to how she raises her children?)

From the Expositor's Greek New Testament cited by Kenneth Wuest:

"The penalty for transgression, so far as woman is concerned, was expressed in the words, 'I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children' (Gen. 3:16). But just as in the case of man, the world being as it is, the sentence has proved a blessing, so it is in the case of woman. 'In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread' expresses man's necessity, duty, privilege, dignity. If the necessity of work be a stumbling block, man can 'make it a stepping-stone' (Browning, The Ring and the Book, The Pope, 413). Nay, it is the only stepping-stone available to him. If St. Paul's argument had led him to emphasize the man's part in the first transgression, he might have said, 'He shall be saved in his toil,' his overcoming the obstacles of nature.

"So St. Paul, taking the common-sense view that childbearing, rather than public teaching or the direction of affairs, is woman's primary function, duty, privilege, and dignity, reminds Timothy and his readers that there was another aspect of the story in Genesis besides that of the woman's taking the initiative in transgression: the pains of childbirth were her sentence, yet in undergoing these, she finds her salvation. She shall be saved in her childbearing (R.V. m. nearly). That is her normal and natural duty; and in the discharge of our normal and natural duties we all men and women alike, as far as our individual efforts can contribute to it, 'work out our own salvation.' "

(based on this view) a difference I see here between the man and the woman is:

If a man (to him it was: "cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life; Thorns also and thistles shall it bring forth to thee; and thou shalt eat the herb of the field; In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread" Genesis 3:17-19) chooses to stop working... then he will be cast "into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth." Matthew 25:30

If a woman (to her it was: "I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children" Genesis 3:16) chooses not to childbear (1 Corinthians 7:34-35)... then there is no punishment...

(Some observations... not saying this view is invalid)

And your next question:

Are women incapable of being saved and resurrected as women?

How would you answer this question, given that:

1 Corinthians 15:22

"in Christ shall all be made alive."

(Christ being a man)

How would you explain that 'all' (including women) shall be made alive in Christ (being a man)?

Does the following explain...

To better understand...

- Was woman made after or before the disobedience?

- Was Adam "the son of God" (Luke 3:38) before or after the disobedience?

____________(1 Samuel 2:12 indicates that there can be "sons of Belial", which would make them not the "sons of God"...)

- Does "being led by the Spirit of God" make one a son of God (Romans 8:14)?

- God gives the Holy Spirit to whom (Acts 5:32)?

Now,

Romans 5:19

For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

- The Spirit remains on Christ (John 1:33),

- "...the Father hath not left [Christ] alone; for [Christ] [does] always those things that please [The Father]." John 8:29

- "God hath given [the Holy Ghost] to them that obey him." (Acts 5:32)

The first Adam is a figure of Christ (Romans 5:14), being made in the image of God (Genesis 1:26), being led by the Spirit of God (Romans 8:14), being the Son of God (Luke 3:38)...

- Now, I will ask again "was woman made after or before the disobedience?"

The answer is before...

Woman is of the First Adam (figure of Christ).

Seeing as Woman is of Adam (the figure of Christ)

would this explain Galatians 3:26-29

how that male and female are one in Christ...

(Woman being of (the figure of) Christ... and shall be made alive "in Christ" (1 Corinthians 15:22))

(keeping her female resurrection body (of Christ) just as she has a female earthy body (of Christ))

?

Edited February 11, 2012 by Ephesians__6_24

[gdemoss]

Hi again, I received your response and I must say I am ready to learn what you have to teach me as it appears you have understanding that I do not possess. Please take some time if you will and help me understand your responses so that I may understand the error that you see in my post.

The context demands "in." The correct understanding of the passage requires "in" not "by."

Please teach me how to determine what a context demands when it comes to the translation of this Greek word. How does one come to the understanding that it 'requires' in and not by?

Because such an understanding violate the context and intent of the author. Your suggestion missses Paul's point entirely.

Can you please explain how such an understanding violates the context exactly? Can you please share how you have determined what the exact intent of the author was? Can you please elaborate on how my suggestion misses Paul's point entirely?

You are taking the passsage far afield of what Paul intended. You need to refrain from letting your own theology drive your interpretation and let the author speak for himself.

How did you come to the conclusion that I took the passage 'far afield' of what Paul intended? What was Paul's exact intention? A person should refrain from having their understanding of a scriptural text rooted in their understanding of God? According to scripture, God is the author. Wouldn't knowing the author play a role in understanding what he was intending to write? Before I knew God, I didn't interpret most things he said correctly. As I have come to know him, I have a better understanding.

It cannot be right translated either way in that passage, as there is only ONE line of thought and only one context and so that single word can only be translated one way. It's not arbitrary.

There is only ONE line of thought in any of the passages that that word is translated, yet they have translated it 'by' a few hundred times. Please help me understand what you mean by 'ONE line of thought'. Same with the context, there is only one context in any passage as I understand it. I agree that it isn't arbitrary as to what word to use as the author only said one thing. The difficulty that I have is not understanding the knowledge that you possess to determine with such great accuracy and authority that it is impossible for it to be correctly translated either way.

Thank you in advance for taking the time to expand upon your answers so that I may learn and grow from this experience with you as that is what Christians do. I await to be edified with excitement. I love learning new things. Especially about proper translation of the Greek scriptures to English.

Gary

[Ephesians__6_24]

- Also, let's say that the "sons of God" (Genesis 6:2) are actually Hebrew men... - where else in scripture does it refer to "sons of God"? there are prophecies in Psalm 2 (specifically verse 7) about Christ, not David, and another reference about Christ (2 Samuel 7:13-14) (not Solomon, Solomon's kingdom was not "for ever" - 2 Samuel 7:13).

- It states that Adam was the son of God (Luke 3:38),

- It also states that "as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God." Romans 8:14

- It also states that "...Ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus." Galatians 3:26

- Therefore, could Adam have been the son of God since he was "led by the Spirit of God", but when man sinned, he lost that place as the son of God (Acts 5:32 - God gives the Holy Ghost to them that obey him)?

- After all, a son is made after the likeness and image of his Father (Genesis 5:3).

- (The Father is perfect Matthew 5:48, and Christ is perfect Acts 13:28).

- (Which explains how that God made man in his own image and likeness Genesis 1:26 (the "first Adam" 1 Corinthians 15:45) ...who is "the figure of him that was to come" Romans 5:14, and how Christ is "the last Adam" 1 Corinthians 15:45 - upon whom the "the Spirit remains" John 1:33; and whom the Father never leaves alone, for Christ "does always those things that please [The Father]." John 8:29).

- Also, let's say that the "sons of God" (Genesis 6:2) are actually Hebrew men... - where else in scripture does it refer to "sons of God"? there are prophecies in Psalm 2 (specifically verse 7) about Christ, not David, and another reference about Christ (2 Samuel 7:13-14) (not Solomon, Solomon's kingdom was not "for ever" - 2 Samuel 7:13).

- It states that Adam was the son of God (Luke 3:38),

- It also states that "as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God." Romans 8:14

- It also states that "...Ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus." Galatians 3:26

There is another scripture, that Jesus quotes...

John 10

³¹Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him.

³²Jesus answered them, Many good works have I shewed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me?

³³The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.

³⁴Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?

³⁵If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;

³⁶Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?

³⁷If I do not the works of my Father, believe me not.

³⁸But if I do, though ye believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe, that the Father is in me, and I in him.

the Passage that Jesus quoted from:

Psalm 82

¹God standeth in the congregation of the mighty; he judgeth among the gods.

²How long will ye judge unjustly, and accept the persons of the wicked? Selah.

³Defend the poor and fatherless: do justice to the afflicted and needy.

⁴Deliver the poor and needy: rid them out of the hand of the wicked.

⁵They know not, neither will they understand; they walk on in darkness: all the foundations of the earth are out of course.

⁶I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High.

⁷But ye shall die like men, and fall like one of the princes.

⁸Arise, O God, judge the earth: for thou shalt inherit all nations.

verse 6 indicates that the gods are "children of the most High."

Could Jesus be talking about men, or angels, when it says "gods"?

- Jesus specifies that "the word of God came" to the "gods" (John 10:35)

The angel said he was a fellowservant to John...

Revelation 22:8-9

And I John saw these things, and heard them. And when I had heard and seen, I fell down to worship before the feet of the angel which shewed me these things.

Then saith he unto me, See thou do it not: for I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren the prophets, and of them which keep the sayings of this book: worship God.

"fellowservant"

G4889

σύνδουλος

sundoulos

Thayer Definition:

1) a fellow servant, one who serves the same master with another

1a) the associate of a servant (or slave)

1b) one who with others serves (ministers to) a king

1c) a colleague of one who is Christ’s servant in publishing the gospel

1d) one who with others acknowledges the same Lord, Jesus, and obeys his commands

1e) one who with others is subject to the same divine authority in the Messianic economy

1e1) of angels as the fellow servants of Christians

Psalm 82:7 indicates to these "gods" whom the word of God came that they "shall die like men, and fall like one of the princes."

Discourse:

Could it be:

angel>spirit>man ?

(God makes his angels spirits... Psalm 104:4)

(When we speak, it is the spirit that we are speaking from... 1 John 4:1, 2 Corinthians 11:4, Luke 4:33)

"what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him?" 1 Corinthians 2:11

_______________________________________________________________________________

Discourse on the spirits in men. Proverbs 25:28 speaks about ruling your own spirit and that "He that hath no rule over his own spirit is like a city that is broken down, and without walls."

Ecclesiastes 7:9 states not to be "hasty in thy spirit to be angry"

And again... Proverbs 14:29 - "He that is slow to wrath is of great understanding: but he that is hasty of spirit exalteth folly."

Ephesians 6:12 states that "...we wrestle... ...against spiritual wickedness in high places."

Ephesians 4:23 indicates "the spirit of your mind" (and to be "renewed in the spirit of your mind")

Proverbs 16:2 - All the ways of a man are clean in his own eyes; but the LORD weigheth the spirits.

- Therefore... "be renewed in the spirit of your mind..." (Ephesians 4:23)

- "...be not conformed to this world:

but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind,

that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God." (Romans 12:2)

Hebrews 12:9 indicates that The Father is The "Father of spirits",

Numbers 27:16 indicates that The LORD is "the God of the spirits of all flesh"

Numbers 14:24 indicates that Caleb "had another spirit with him..." "...and has followed the LORD fully."

A list of spirits:

Zechariah 12:10 indicates "the spirit of grace and of supplications"

[Hebrews 10:29 indicates "the Spirit of grace"]

1 Peter 4:14 indicates "the spirit of glory"

1 Corinthians 4:21 and Galatians 6:1 indicate "the spirit of meekness"

2 Corinthians 4:13 indicates the "spirit of faith"

Ephesians 1:17 indicates "the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of [the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory]"

2 Timothy 1:7 indicates that "God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind." Revelation 19:10 states that "the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy."

1 John 4:6 indicates "We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error."

Isaiah 29:10 indicates "the spirit of deep sleep"

Romans 11:7-8 indicates "Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded. (According as it is written, God

hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear;) unto this day." Hosea 4:12 indicates "the spirit of whoredoms"

Numbers 5:14 indicates a "spirit of jealousy"

Luke 4:33 indicates "in the synagogue there was a man, which had a spirit of an unclean devil"

Luke 13:11 indicates "there was a woman which had a spirit of infirmity"

Acts 16:16 indicates "a certain damsel possessed with a spirit of divination"

1 John 4:3 indicates "every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist"

End of discourse on the spirits in men.

___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Consider: Luke 4:33

And: Numbers 33:50-51, 55, Joshua 23:2 12-13, Judges 2:3

Luke 4:33-36

³³And in the synagogue there was a man, which had a spirit of an unclean devil, and cried out with a loud voice,

Verse 33... the man had a spirit of an unclean devil.

(working backwards--in this verse it is: man<spirit<angel. Remember above it was asked if it could be that: angel>spirit>man?)

Discourse:

Could it be:

angel>spirit>man ?

Luke 4 continued

³⁴Saying, Let us alone; what have we to do with thee, thou Jesus of Nazareth? art thou come to destroy us? I know thee who thou art; the Holy One of God.

³⁵And Jesus rebuked him, saying, Hold thy peace, and come out of him. And when the devil had thrown him [the man] in the midst, he came out of him, and hurt him not.

³⁶And they were all amazed, and spake among themselves, saying, What a word is this! for with authority and power he commandeth the unclean spirits

[They don't say "devil", they say "unclean spirits"],

Luke 4 continued

and they come out.

["out" indicates that the "unclean spirit" was "in" the man...]

- And now we will Consider Numbers 33:50-51, 55, Joshua 23:2 12-13, Judges 2:3

Numbers 33

50 And the LORD spake unto Moses in the plains of Moab by Jordan near Jericho, saying,

51 Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them, When ye are passed over Jordan into the land of Canaan;

55 But if ye will not drive out the inhabitants of the land from before you; then it shall come to pass, that those which ye let remain of them shall be pricks in your eyes, and thorns in your sides, and shall vex you in the land wherein ye dwell.

Joshua 23

2 And Joshua called for all Israel, and for their elders, and for their heads, and for their judges, and for their officers, and said unto them, I am old and stricken in age:

- Joshua said the following unto "all Israel"...

Joshua 23 continued

12 Else if ye do in any wise go back, and cleave unto the remnant of these nations, even these that remain among you, and shall make marriages with them, and go in unto them, and they to you:

13 Know for a certainty that the LORD your God will no more drive out any of these nations from before you; but they shall be snares and traps unto you, and scourges in your sides, and thorns in your eyes, until ye perish from off this good land which the LORD your God hath given you.

Now, the angel of the LORD

(Compare the corresponding colours).

Judges 2

1 And an angel of the LORD came up from Gilgal to Bochim, and said, I made you to go up out of Egypt,

Was it the angel of the LORD that made them go up out of Egypt? or Moses?

Could it be:

angel>spirit>man ?

Judges 2 continued

1 ...and have brought you unto the land which I sware unto your fathers; and I said, I will never break my covenant with you.

2 And ye shall make no league with the inhabitants of this land; ye shall throw down their altars: but ye have not obeyed my voice: why have ye done this?

- The angel of the LORD's voice, or Joshua/Moses' voice?

Could it be:

angel>spirit>man ?

Judges 2 continued

3 Wherefore I also said, I will not drive them out from before you; but they shall be as thorns in your sides, and their gods shall be a snare unto you.

- What does all of this have to do with Psalm 82?

Is Psalm 82 speaking about "higher powers"?

Romans 13

¹Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God.

²Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation.

³For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same:

⁴For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil.

⁵Wherefore ye must needs be subject, not only for wrath, but also for conscience sake.

⁶For for this cause pay ye tribute also: for they are God's ministers, attending continually upon this very thing. [Psalm 103:20 - angels hearken to the voice of the LORD's word.]

⁷Render therefore to all their dues: tribute to whom tribute is due; custom to whom custom; fear to whom fear; honour to whom honour.

Psalm 103:20

Bless the LORD, ye his angels, that excel in strength, that do his commandments, hearkening unto the voice of his word.

remember...

The angel said he was a fellowservant to John...

Revelation 22:8-9

And I John saw these things, and heard them. And when I had heard and seen, I fell down to worship before the feet of the angel which shewed me these things.

Then saith he unto me, See thou do it not: for I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren the prophets, and of them which keep the sayings of this book: worship God.

Psalm 82

A Psalm of Asaph.

God standeth in the congregation of the mighty; he judgeth among the gods.

How long will ye judge unjustly, and accept the persons of the wicked?

Selah.

Defend the poor and fatherless: do justice to the afflicted and needy.

Deliver the poor and needy: rid them out of the hand of the wicked.

They know not, neither will they understand; they walk on in darkness: all the foundations of the earth are out of course.

I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High.

But ye shall die like men, and fall like one of the princes.

Arise, O God, judge the earth: for thou shalt inherit all nations.

Psalm 82:5... "the foundations of the earth" are referring to the "gods"...

Psalm 82:5 is indicating that "the foundations of the earth are out of course" when the gods "know not" neither "understand"... and "walk on in darkness".

- if the gods judge unjustly and if they accept the persons of the wicked, if they don't defend the poor and fatherless, and don't do justice to the afflicted and needy, and if they don't deliver the poor and needy and if they don't rid them out of the hand of the wicked... then "the foundations of the earth are out of course".

1 Samuel 2:7-8

The LORD maketh poor, and maketh rich: he bringeth low, and lifteth up.

He raiseth up the poor out of the dust, and lifteth up the beggar from the dunghill, to set them among princes, and to make them inherit the throne of glory: for the pillars of the earth are the LORD's, and he hath set the world upon them.

Is Christ the Pillar of the Earth?

"The princes or governors of the earth, which are called the corners, or corner-stones, of a land or people, Judges 20:2 1Samuel 14:38 Zephaniah 3:6, and are fitly called pillars, because they uphold the world, and keep it from sinking into confusion."

- Poole's commentary

Judges 20:2 - And the chief of all the people, even of all the tribes of Israel, presented themselves in the assembly of the people of God, four hundred thousand footmen that drew sword.

1Samuel 14:38 - And Saul said, Draw ye near hither, all the chief of the people: and know and see wherein this sin hath been this day.

Zephaniah 3:6 - I have cut off the nations: their towers are desolate; I made their streets waste, that none passeth by: their cities are destroyed, so that there is no man, that there is none inhabitant.

1 Kings 4:24-25

For he had dominion over all the region on this side the river, from Tiphsah even to Azzah, over all the kings on this side the river: and he had peace on all sides round about him.

And Judah and Israel dwelt safely, every man under his vine and under his fig tree, from Dan even to Beersheba, all the days of Solomon.

Proverbs 24:24 - "He that saith unto the wicked, Thou are righteous; him shall the people curse, nations shall abhor him"

Revelation 3:12 - Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.

Proverbs 8:15-16 - By [Christ] kings reign, and princes decree justice. By me princes rule, and nobles, even all the judges of the earth.

Is a minister of the LORD an angel?

2 Samuel 24 indicates that the angel of the LORD ministered the LORD's judgment...

2 Samuel 24

¹⁵So the LORD sent a pestilence upon Israel from the morning even to the time appointed: and there died of the people from Dan even to Beersheba seventy thousand men.

¹⁶And when the angel stretched out his hand upon Jerusalem to destroy it, the LORD repented him of the evil, and said to the angel that destroyed the people, It is enough: stay now thine hand. And the angel of the LORD was by the threshingplace of Araunah the Jebusite.

¹⁷And David spake unto the LORD when he saw the angel that smote the people, and said, Lo, I have sinned, and I have done wickedly: but these sheep, what have they done? let thine hand, I pray thee, be against me, and against my father's house.

(verse 17 ^ indicates that the angel smote the people).

--- Will the saints minister God's judgment I wonder?

Is Psalm 82 speaking about the gods as pastors (which are "ministers" of God?)

- 1 Thessalonians 3:2 - Timotheus is called a minister of God.

- Could it be that the Angels will minister God's judgment on the world (vengeance)... and the pastors and elders ("gods") are to judge those that are inside the church (like it says in Psalm 82, but don't take vengeance, and rather leave vengeance to God)?

- 1 Corinthians 5:12-13

For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within?

But them that are without God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person.

2 Thessalonians 1

⁶Seeing it is a righteous thing with God to recompense tribulation to them that trouble you;

⁷And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,

⁸In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:

⁹Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;

Will angels take vengeance on them that know not God, or the Lord Jesus? (or both?)

Isaiah 37:36 indicates that "the angel of the LORD went forth, and smote in the camp of the Assyrians a hundred and fourscore and five thousand: and when they arose early in the morning, behold, they were all dead corpses."

Matthew 13

⁴¹The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;

⁴²And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.

1 Peter 4

¹⁵But let none of you suffer as a murderer, or as a thief, or as an evildoer, or as a busybody in other men's matters.

¹⁶Yet if any man suffer as a Christian, let him not be ashamed; but let him glorify God on this behalf.

¹⁷For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?

¹⁸And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear?

¹⁹Wherefore let them that suffer according to the will of God commit the keeping of their souls to him in well doing, as unto a faithful Creator.

Is Psalm 82 speaking about "gods" also in the regard of "pastors" ?

Revelation 2:1 "the angel of the church of Ephesus"

Revelation 2:8 "the angel of the church in Smyrna"

Revelation 2:12 "the angel of the church in Pergamos"

Revelation 2:18 "the angel of the church in Thyatira"

Revelation 3:1 "the angel of the church in Sardis"

Revelation 3:7 "the angel of the church in Philadelphia"

Revelation 3:14 "the angel of the church of the Laodiceans"

Every time it says angel in the verse above ^, the Greek word is "ἄγγελος", (transliterated "aggelos"):

G32

ἄγγελος

aggelos

ang'-el-os

Strong's: "From ἀγγέλλω aggellō (probably derived from G71; compare G34; to bring tidings); a messenger; especially an “angel”; by implication a pastor: - angel, messenger."

Thayer: "a messenger, envoy, one who is sent, an angel, a messenger from God "

- It says in Ecclesiastes 5:6 "angel"

Ecclesiastes 5

¹Keep thy foot when thou goest to the house of God, and be more ready to hear, than to give the sacrifice of fools: for they consider not that they do evil.

²Be not rash with thy mouth, and let not thine heart be hasty to utter any thing before God: for God is in heaven, and thou upon earth: therefore let thy words be few.

³For a dream cometh through the multitude of business; and a fool's voice is known by multitude of words.

⁴When thou vowest a vow unto God, defer not to pay it; for he hath no pleasure in fools: pay that which thou hast vowed.

⁵Better is it that thou shouldest not vow, than that thou shouldest vow and not pay.

⁶Suffer not thy mouth to cause thy flesh to sin; neither say thou before the angel, that it was an error: wherefore should God be angry at thy voice, and destroy the work of thine hands?

⁷For in the multitude of dreams and many words there are also divers vanities: but fear thou God.

Angels are greater in power and in might... 2 Peter 2:11

David (king) "is wise, according to the wisdom of an angel of God, to know all things that are in the earth." 2 Samuel 14:20

"is as an angel of God" 2 Samuel 19:27

"for as an angel of God, so is my lord the king to discern good and bad" 2 Samuel 14:17

could the government of this age be a figure of heavenly things?

"thy kingdom come, thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven"

Psalm 103:20

Bless the LORD, ye his angels, that excel in strength, that do his commandments, hearkening unto the voice of his word.

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Edited February 13, 2012 by Ephesians__6_24

[gdemoss]

We begin this study speaking of the resurrection body of a woman, which is a fascinating study in itself. I am of the mind that all angels are male, thus why the sons of God saw the daughters of men and left their first estate. As far as the resurrection body of a woman is concerned, it matters not to me as the thing that does matter is that no matter what body they have it will be 'covered' properly, and so not matter at all to me

As for the topic change into angel>spirit>man, God has been teaching me these truths for sometime now as he has been showing me how the immaterial/spiritual interacts with the material/temporal to accomplish all his will. Yesterday, he asked me to consider a man like Donald Trump and his Trump Towers. When a man sees them they think of Donald Trump and the works of his hands, yet his hands had little to do with the construction of them. Men and angels are simply created servants that can do nothing more than serve. God assigned order of authority through out the entire creation, giving dominion, principality and power to whom he would. Gods Word has ultimate authority as it cannot be broken but must come to pass. It brings all that resist it into subjection through its power. God first commanded the man not to eat of the tree, then spoke of a time when he would eat. He did not say 'if' you eat but 'in the day you eat'. Adam would eat, there could be not doubt as God spoke it.

As Trump is a god in this world, that is driven and given power by the immaterial/spiritual realm as God see fit for his own purposes, ultimately it is God the Sovereign one who is at work 'perfecting' his creation that was made 'very good'.

I understand that I 'speak' by the 'spirit' that is within me as do others. I know that I have had 'spirits' who were a 'lying tongue' in my mouth. I have spoken by the Holy Spirit and have watched things come to pass. Consider the fact that we get our word 'spirit' from the Greek word 'pnema' which means air or breath. Consider Jesus breathing on the disciples the Holy Spirit. Consider the mighty wind that came on Pentecost. Consider that the life is in the blood and that 'air' as we know it rushes through our blood stream into our brains, hearts and vital organs. We ignorantly as humans separate the spiritual/immaterial realm with our temporal realm. Satan, through the work of his minions, works to fill the hearts of men to do his will and worship him. The devil and the angel are not on your shoulder...resist the devil and he will flee 'from' you. The word 'from' speaks of separation. When a devil enters into you, he immediately desires to accomplish the task of controlling your mind and body through his 'ministry' to you that he 'offers'. For this cause we are told to bring every 'thought' into captivity unto the anointing that is within us.

The influence of spirits upon our spirit is enormous. Especially the Holy Spirit for those who do not resist Him. Praying to be filled with the Holy Spirit of God the Father, so that one will not be influenced by the spirit that now works in the children of disobedience is a daily ritual of mine. Every spirit who wishes to deceive you wants you to believe that all of your thoughts are your own and that they are not really even there. Through worldly wisdom they rule the foolish who obey their every command. Let us therefore, cleanse our hands and purify our hearts being sanctified by the Word of God in truth so that we might be vessels unto honor in the potters hands that forms us by his Word. Great study my brother.

In Jesus Name,

Gary

[Ephesians__6_24]

The question about female evil angels, if they were created female and then became the devils angels:

- Were the female evil angels created female good angels (Genesis 2:1), or were they transformed when satan's tail drew a third part of the stars of heaven and cast them to the earth (Revelation 12:4)?

- Or did the angels take on a "form" of female... (as nebula has suggested):

I said "taking on the form of". This is not saying that they "are."

- Here is some scripture:

Isaiah 2:7-9

7 Their land also is full of silver and gold, neither is there any end of their treasures; their land is also full of horses, neither is there any end of their chariots:

8 Their land also is full of idols; they worship the work of their own hands, that which their own fingers have made:

9 And the mean man boweth down, and the great man humbleth himself: therefore forgive them not.

and

Job 26:5-6

5 Dead things are formed from under the waters, and the inhabitants thereof.

6 Hell is naked before him, and destruction hath no covering.

Hmm.. were the Diana and Ashtoreth (goddesses) created female by human hands? "the work of their own hands" - Isaiah 2:8

- And when God created the Angels (Genesis 2:1) he didn't create female angels?

- If Luke 20:36 is not referring to how saints bodies will be equal to angels bodies (more on angels and bodies below), and Luke 20:36 is rather referring to how that saints will be "equal" unto the angels in that angels are children of God, then finding out if there are female angels is of no value.

A question arises:

- Do angels have bodies?

God makes his angels spirits, and spirits don't have "flesh and bones"...

But then:

if angels don't have "bodies",

then what is 1 Corinthians 15 speaking about?

(this question is asked in another thread that I posted: click here to be redirected)

- 1 Corinthians 15:40 - "There are also celestial bodies" - Could this be referring to Angels? (Angels having celestial bodies) (or would 1 Corinthians 15:40 be talking about the resurrection "celestial body" of the saints)?

1 Corinthians 15

³⁵But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come?

³⁶Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die:

³⁷And that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be, but bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other grain:

³⁸But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own body.

³⁹All flesh is not the same flesh: but there is one kind of flesh of men, another flesh of beasts, another of fishes, and another of birds.

⁴⁰There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another.

⁴¹There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory.

⁴²So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:

(Hm, that "So also" could be significant...)

(To clarify the line of thought: If the "celestial bodies" in verse 40 ^ is referring to the saints' body and not the angels... then that would be a no to angels (whom God makes "spirits" - Psalm 104:4) having "flesh and bones" (as a spirit does not have "flesh and bones" (Luke 24:39)) )

(...I wonder if the following answers my question):

1 Corinthians 15 continued

⁴³It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:

⁴⁴It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

⁴⁵And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.

⁴⁶Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.

⁴⁷The first man is of the earth, earthy; the second man is the Lord from heaven.

⁴⁸As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.

⁴⁹And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.

⁵⁰Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

Edited February 13, 2012 by Ephesians__6_24

[mizzdy]

Thread is closed for review.

[mizzdy]

I am opening this thread, for now.

Ephesians,

There have been members asking direct questions of you that need to be answered but for me I would like direct, without walls of scriptures, who is Yeshua (Jesus) to you? Is it your opinion that when we die and are changed that we become angels? Lets start with those first will we?

shalom,

Mizzdy

[Ephesians__6_24]

Is it your opinion that when we die and are changed that we become angels?

Well;

Luke 20:34 And Jesus answering said unto them, The children of this world marry, and are given in marriage:

Luke 20:35 But they which shall be accounted worthy to obtain that world, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry, nor are given in marriage:

Luke 20:36 Neither can they die any more: for they are equal unto the angels; and are the children of God, being the children of the resurrection.

"equal unto the angels; and are the children of God, being the children of the resurrection"

- Would this indicate that the saints' resurrected bodies are equal unto the angels?

- Or would this passage indicate that resurrected saints are equal unto the angels in the children of God and dieing and marrying aspects.

- A note to make: it says: "for they are equal unto the angels; and are the children of God, being the children of the resurrection."

- Could the "and" be relating the "equal unto the angels" to the "children of God" (so that saints are equal unto the angels only in the children of God and dieing and marrying aspects) or could the "and" be simply stating another truth, and thus, separating the two phrases (so that the saints are equal unto the angels of God in every way)?

- Will saints have an equal body to the angels...

- Do angels have "bodies"......

- If God makes his angels spirits (Psalm 104:4), and

- spirits have not flesh and bones (Luke 24:37-39) as the Lord had (which is also our resurrected spiritual body - 1 Corinthians 15:44) --- indicating that angels which are spirits do not have a spiritual body...

- Then resurrected saints would not have bodies equal unto the angels...

- If this is true, Luke 20:35-36 must mean that the resurrected saints are only equal to the angels in the children of God and dieing and marrying aspects.

- The passage that needs explaining then is 1 Corinthians 15:40---

1 Corinthians 15:35-47

1Cor 15:35 But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come?

1Cor 15:36 Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die:

1Cor 15:37 And that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be, but bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other grain:

1Cor 15:38 But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own body.

1Cor 15:39 All flesh is not the same flesh: but there is one kind of flesh of men, another flesh of beasts, another of fishes, and another of birds.

1Cor 15:40 There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another.

___________________________________________________

Verse 40.

The Greek word translated to English "celestial" comes from the same word used in Hebrews 11:12 "...the stars of the sky in multitude..." (indicating visible heavens...)

(but in Hebrew... there is the signification that heaven is: the "holy habitation" of the LORD - Deuteronomy 26:15, and it is asked that the LORD would "look down from" His "holy habitation")

- It is stated that "no man hath seen the Father" John 6:46

- Would verse 40 indicate that angels have celestial bodies?

- (Perhaps there is a difference between celestial and spiritual bodies...)

___________________________________________________

1Cor 15:41 There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory.

1Cor 15:42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:

1Cor 15:43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:

1Cor 15:44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

1Cor 15:45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.

1Cor 15:46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.

1Cor 15:47 The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven.

Edited February 18, 2012 by Ephesians__6_24

[Ephesians__6_24]

who is Yeshua (Jesus) to you?

Jesus is Lord

and,

1 Timothy 3:16 indicates that God was manifest in the flesh...

John 10:30 indicates that Jesus and His Father are one.

Edited February 18, 2012 by Ephesians__6_24

[Ephesians__6_24]

I am of the mind that all angels are male, thus why the sons of God saw the daughters of men and left their first estate.

Zechariah 5:1-9

Zech 5:1 Then I turned, and lifted up mine eyes, and looked, and behold a flying roll.

Zech 5:2 And he said unto me, What seest thou? And I answered, I see a flying roll; the length thereof is twenty cubits, and the breadth thereof ten cubits.

Zech 5:3 Then said he unto me, This is the curse that goeth forth over the face of the whole earth: for every one that stealeth shall be cut off as on this side according to it; and every one that sweareth shall be cut off as on that side according to it.

Zech 5:4 I will bring it forth, saith the LORD of hosts, and it shall enter into the house of the thief, and into the house of him that sweareth falsely by my name: and it shall remain in the midst of his house, and shall consume it with the timber thereof and the stones thereof.

Zech 5:5 Then the angel that talked with me went forth, and said unto me, Lift up now thine eyes, and see what is this that goeth forth.

Zech 5:6 And I said, What is it? And he said, This is an ephah that goeth forth. He said moreover, This is their resemblance through all the earth.

Zech 5:7 And, behold, there was lifted up a talent of lead: and this is a woman that sitteth in the midst of the ephah.

Zech 5:8 And he said, This is wickedness. And he cast it into the midst of the ephah; and he cast the weight of lead upon the mouth thereof.

Zech 5:9 Then lifted I up mine eyes, and looked, and, behold, there came out two women, and the wind was in their wings; for they had wings like the wings of a stork: and they lifted up the ephah between the earth and the heaven.

Zech 5:10 Then said I to the angel that talked with me, Whither do these bear the ephah?

Zech 5:11 And he said unto me, To build it an house in the land of Shinar: and it shall be established, and set there upon her own base.

- Is verse 9 referring to female angels

Edited February 18, 2012 by Ephesians__6_24