Orr v'emet Posted October 12, 2004 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 26 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,672 Content Per Day: 0.23 Reputation: 11 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/12/2004 Status: Offline Share Posted October 12, 2004 Awesome post AT! I think this thread could be closed now! HEY, NOW....I still want to hear viewpoints. PLEASE don't close this topic!! Sorry! I was only kidding! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Steve Posted October 12, 2004 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 35 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 274 Content Per Day: 0.04 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/24/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 01/05/1969 Share Posted October 12, 2004 (edited) Awesome post AT! Edited October 12, 2004 by Big Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kabowd Posted October 12, 2004 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 112 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 3,489 Content Per Day: 0.48 Reputation: 13 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/28/2004 Status: Offline Share Posted October 12, 2004 Information Found Here FACT THERE IS NO EVIDENCE TO SUPPORT THE CLAIM THAT A PERSON CAN BE BORN HOMOSEXUAL. All the findings combined from the study of twins, gene "linkage' studies or brain dissections cannot prove that homosexuality is genetic. What is clear is that the scientific attempts to demonstrate that homosexual attraction is biologically determined have failed. Check it out: Fact # 1: Dr. Charles Socarides, clinical professor of psychiatry at the Albert Einstein School of Medicine and past president of the National Association for Research and Therapy of Homosexuality, argues that since psychologists and ministers have treated homosexuality with success, the genetic cause theory must be suspect. 14 Fact # 2: In July of 1996, five researchers led by Dean Hamer at the National Cancer Institute released a study that attempted to link male homosexuality with a specific region of their X chromosome. Hamer, himself a gay man, commented, "...environmental factors play a role. There is not a single master gene that makes people gay...I don't think we will ever be able to predict who will be gay."15 Fact #3: Many researchers found fault with the well-known Simon LeVay brain study of 1991 which tried to find differences in the hypothalamuses (a very small part of the brain) of homosexual and heterosexual men. LeVay, one of the researchers and a gay activist, offered the following criticisms of his own research: "It's important to stress what I didn't find. I did not prove that homosexuality is genetic, or find a genetic cause for being gay. I didn't show that gay men are born that way, the most common mistake people make in interpreting my work. Nor did I locate a gay center in the brain.16 Fact #4: A third study, conducted in 1991 by psychologist Michael Bailey and psychiatrist Richard Pillard, attempted to show that homosexuality occurs more frequently among identical twins than fraternal twins. This study actually provides support for environmental factors versus genetics! If homosexuality were in the genetic code. then both of the twins would have been homosexual 100 percent of the time, yet this was not the case.17 Fact #5: Prominent researchers William Byne, a psychiatrist with a doctorate in biology, Bruce Parsons and also psychiatrists Richard Friedman and J. Downey, each concluded that there is no evidence to support a biologic theory, but rather that homosexuality could be best explained by an alternative model where "temperamental and personality traits interact with the familial and social milieu as the individuals sexuality emerges."18 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orr v'emet Posted October 12, 2004 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 26 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,672 Content Per Day: 0.23 Reputation: 11 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/12/2004 Status: Offline Share Posted October 12, 2004 Awesome post AT! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gypc Posted October 12, 2004 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 24 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 972 Content Per Day: 0.13 Reputation: 13 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/15/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/07/1964 Share Posted October 12, 2004 If a person believes in the God of the Bible and wants to live for him, he must repent of his sins. Any sexual immorality is sin. There are many former homosexuals and bi sexuals who have been delivered from this bondage and now live normal christian lives. We are all born into sin but this will not be an acceptable excuse. If it were, Christ died for nothing. One thing we must understand is Jesus loves us so much that he died on the cross so we could be free. Sin seperates us from God so he made peace with us through his blood. But if we continue in our sin, we deny him with our actions and we will be rejected by him. (NIV)1 John 2:1My dear children, I write this to you so that you will not sin. But if anybody does sin, we have one who speaks to the Father in our defense--Jesus Christ, the Righteous One. 2He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for[1] the sins of the whole world. 3We know that we have come to know him if we obey his commands. 4The man who says, "I know him," but does not do what he commands is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 5But if anyone obeys his word, God's love[2] is truly made complete in him. This is how we know we are in him: 6Whoever claims to live in him must walk as Jesus did. (KJV)Romans 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. 2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death. 3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: 4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. 5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit. 6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. 7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. 8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God. In his love, Brian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rockswillcryout Posted October 12, 2004 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 45 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 331 Content Per Day: 0.04 Reputation: 8 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/31/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 01/01/2003 Share Posted October 12, 2004 Then how does one explain the Scriptures that we are "born into sin?" 1 John 3: 9-10: No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God's seed remains in him; he cannot go on sinning, because he has been born of God. This is how we know who the children of God are and who the children of the devil are: Anyone who does not do what is right is not a child of God; nor is anyone who does not love his brother. We are born into sin, but sin itself is not genetic. Each time I sin, I have the choice whether or not to pursue it. Whether it's in saying the Lord's name in vain, having lustful thoughts, lieing, cheating, stealing, whatever it may be. I can still stop and say to myself "I have a choice whether or not to do this." Sometimes I choose not to and sometimes I choose to. But I always have the choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Kattanfan Posted October 12, 2004 Share Posted October 12, 2004 Tess; Thanks for that information. As far as the hypothalmus study is concerned...I was mistaken. I thought that study had concluded otherwise. There was a more recent study (although I don't remember the source) which indicated that some part of the ear in lesbian women was larger than in straight women...rather comparable to the size of a male's ear. All of this brings me to another question--as I have found homosexual tendencies to be a struggle in the lives of many Christians, how does one correlate the desire to engage in homosexuality with his ability to suppress it?! I have found the only was is through Jesus Christ, but if it is merely a choice, wouldn't one be able to suppress this urge naturally?! I do feel this to be an innate desire, whether biological, psychological, OR spiritual. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Kattanfan Posted October 12, 2004 Share Posted October 12, 2004 (edited) We are born into sin, but sin itself is not genetic. Sin itself may not be genetic, per se, but I do believe that when Adam ate of the apple, something was changed in our brains....and that IS a physical change. Intellectually, Adam and Eve "knew" that they were naked, and as I remember it, the word for know represented some intellectual awareness...and intellect IS centered in the brain. I do believe that our brain chemistry changed, and we became corrupt...not only our souls, but our FLESH, which IS our BODY. The Bible refers to "sins of the flesh," and if our physical selves were not inclined to sin, or attached to our souls, why would a physical act, such as sex, be considered a sin?! The Scriptures say that our flesh is corrupt...isn't our flesh our physical body?! Edited October 12, 2004 by Kattanfan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trinity Posted October 12, 2004 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 92 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 2,244 Content Per Day: 0.31 Reputation: 63 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/30/2004 Status: Offline Share Posted October 12, 2004 Very easy! No ill back it up. Romans 1 26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: 27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet. That verse makes it very clear THEY CAN'T BE BORN WITH IT. IT IS agains NATURE... the bible says its a sin. you can't be born with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
godrulz Posted October 12, 2004 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 13 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 885 Content Per Day: 0.11 Reputation: 8 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/25/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/19/1960 Share Posted October 12, 2004 Sin is not a substance (metaphysics=stuff, nature). Sin is a wrong MORAL choice or lawlessness. We have an element of physical depravity from the Fall that is inherited. Moral depravity is not inherited, but is chosen. It is a lie and deception to say that homosexuals are born that way or that God made them that way. It is an attempt to justify a chosen lifestyle and behavior that is contrary to the will of God. God would not condemn something one could not help. I Cor. 6:9-11 Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor HOMOSEXUAL offenders not thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. And that is what some of you WERE (it is possible for a homosexual to change orientation...therefore it is chosen, not genetic). BUT you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of God." Romans 1:18-32 lie, perversion, against nature, lust, unnatural. I Tim. 1:8-10 contrary to law and sound teaching. Genesis 2:24 One man and one woman for life= creation mandate. Sodom and Gomorrah (Gen. 18, etc.)= sin= homosexuality. Lev. 18:22; 20:13 Law forbids... Bethany House "The Same Sex Controversy" James White and Jeffrey Niell This book deals with the rationalizations and modern arguments for homosexuality (+ objections with biblical responses). Church history and other evidence is included. Homosexuality is influenced by nurture and choices; it is not based on nature or genetics (scientific data weak, biased, and inconclusive; contrary to Scripture). There is freedom and hope in Christ. For the record, I love homosexuals but am intolerant of a lifestyle that is contrary to God's will. We need to speak the truth in love and not leave them in their sin and rebellion. "Gay Marriage" is an oxymoron. We need to maintain the sanctity of marriage. Homosexual unions for certain rights may be a reasonable concession. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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