nebula Posted July 12, 2012 Group: Royal Member Followers: 10 Topic Count: 5,823 Topics Per Day: 0.75 Content Count: 45,870 Content Per Day: 5.94 Reputation: 1,897 Days Won: 83 Joined: 03/22/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/19/1970 Author Share Posted July 12, 2012 Christians usually (not always) tell me that because I lost my faith I was not a real Christian to start with. If I recall correctly, those on the board who questioned the validity of your faith based the reasoning on your claims of what you believed made you a Christian. Well, in my early twenties I used to have a personal and close relationship with Him. He was there, I could even sense Him and the Holy Spirit physically. It is true. Ciao - viole Then why did fine-sounding arguments cause you to turn your back on Him - if you believe He was there and could sence Him physically? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nebula Posted July 13, 2012 Group: Royal Member Followers: 10 Topic Count: 5,823 Topics Per Day: 0.75 Content Count: 45,870 Content Per Day: 5.94 Reputation: 1,897 Days Won: 83 Joined: 03/22/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/19/1970 Author Share Posted July 13, 2012 Did you talk to God about your doubts? But also going back to the original concern, how did you become a Christian? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthur Durnan Posted July 13, 2012 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 121 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 2,782 Content Per Day: 0.36 Reputation: 49 Days Won: 1 Joined: 06/14/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted July 13, 2012 Atheism is a faith-filled religion and personally I can't muster up enuf faith to be an atheist of whatever stripe. Which, pray tell, is more plausible? Did intelligence & morality evolve from an intelligent and moral first cause, or from a non-intelligent, non-moral random collection of particles? For that matter, why did those particles exist in the first place? In a real life world, atheism quite evidently offers the I.Q. of a ceiling fan. Sorry, but with respect to the religion of atheism, one size fits none. However 'tis true that one has to admire this incredible faith beyond measure of the atheist community with their very own special 'twin-gods' called "god Fat Chance" and god Wholly Accidental"! Supporting atheism as any "wave of anyone's future" is akin to, let us say, promoting the late Ted Kennedy for lifeguard! Be still my beating heart! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ninhao Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 Well, in my early twenties I used to have a personal and close relationship with Him. He was there, I could even sense Him and the Holy Spirit physically. It is true. Ciao - viole I remember you telling this before. Very interesting. Because I now believe that was deluding myself. It is possible to delude oneselves and feel non-existent physical presences. But I might be terribly wrong in my current belief. It could be that I am deluding myself now, who knows? As a Christian, you probably agree that I might be wrong today. But if I am wrong today, it is possible and likely that I was right in the past and I was really having personal relationships with God. That would make me a real ex-Christian, wouldn't it? Ciao - viole do you have some doubt now about the non existence of God? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enoob57 Posted July 13, 2012 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 35 Topic Count: 100 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 41,387 Content Per Day: 8.00 Reputation: 21,562 Days Won: 76 Joined: 03/13/2010 Status: Online Birthday: 07/27/1957 Share Posted July 13, 2012 Christians usually (not always) tell me that because I lost my faith I was not a real Christian to start with. If I recall correctly, those on the board who questioned the validity of your faith based the reasoning on your claims of what you believed made you a Christian. Well, in my early twenties I used to have a personal and close relationship with Him. He was there, I could even sense Him and the Holy Spirit physically. It is true. Ciao - viole Then why did fine-sounding arguments cause you to turn your back on Him - if you believe He was there and could sence Him physically? Because I now believe that was deluding myself. It is possible to delude oneselves and feel non-existent physical presences. But I might be terribly wrong in my current belief. It could be that I am deluding myself now, who knows? As a Christian, you probably agree that I might be wrong today. But if I am wrong today, it is possible and likely that I was right in the past and I was really having personal relationships with God. That would make me a real ex-Christian, wouldn't it? Ciao - viole NO that would make God a liar.... 1 Jn 2:19 19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us; but they went out that they might be made manifest, that none of them were of us. NKJV Love, Steven Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nebula Posted July 13, 2012 Group: Royal Member Followers: 10 Topic Count: 5,823 Topics Per Day: 0.75 Content Count: 45,870 Content Per Day: 5.94 Reputation: 1,897 Days Won: 83 Joined: 03/22/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/19/1970 Author Share Posted July 13, 2012 Did you talk to God about your doubts? No, because I did not think it made sense to speak with an entity whose existence I doubted. Since I doubted the reality my personal relashionships, I could not possibly talk with Him and be sure that His answers were not a figment of my imagination also. That would have not lindered my doubts at all. That explains a lot. But also going back to the original concern, how did you become a Christian? I do not know. I think I always believed and talked with God since I was a child. It made a lot of sense.... Biblically, one becomes a "Christian" when one makes Jesus the Lord ord of their lives and the Savior from their sins. You never did come to a point of repentance and receiving, did you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jayyycuuup Posted July 13, 2012 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 68 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 1,384 Content Per Day: 0.37 Reputation: 155 Days Won: 1 Joined: 01/20/2014 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/22/1996 Share Posted July 13, 2012 Well, she was not a real atheist to start with If you think she was, would you accept the possibility that I was a real Christian (saved) before losing my faith? If not, what is the logical reason of this asymmetry? Ciao - viole I don't know about anyone else but I would accept that you were a real Christian once. It has happened to a lot of people....even, reportedly, Mother Theresa. It still breaks my heart to think of this happening though. Hi MorningGlory, I am happy that you at least take the view you do. Many Christians do have difficulty accepting that Christian belief can be lost. I feel a twinge of skepticism myself when I hear that an atheist has converted to Belief, so I do understand the the suspicion people experience. Hello Celcius, So you are skeptic when an atheist turns to Christ but if a Christian were to turn atheist it makes sense? Being on the opposing side I see where you are comming from since your not a Believer, but keep in mind that we Christians also have the same suspicion when people turn their back on God, It leads us to believe that they were mislead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ninhao Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 ..... But I have the same doubts about the existence of Zeus or Allah and all other gods, too. The only possible evidence I have is the fact that many people equally believed in them, mainly because of accidents of being born in a certain place at a certain time. For lack of a better criterium concerning their existence, I think it is sensible to dismiss them all, by default. Like R.Dawkins so eloquently said: everybody is an unbeliever of almost all gods. We atheists just go one god further. Ciao - viole Changing your mind is a great privilege. I think you have thrown the baby out with the bathwater though. ... When you read an atheist book like R.Dawkins' and realize that you agree with everything he says even before you read it, that's it...I am lost Ciao - viole You're not lost. Just misplaced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gdemoss Posted July 14, 2012 Group: Royal Member Followers: 8 Topic Count: 59 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 4,402 Content Per Day: 0.98 Reputation: 2,154 Days Won: 28 Joined: 02/10/2012 Status: Offline Birthday: 04/26/1971 Share Posted July 14, 2012 Christians usually (not always) tell me that because I lost my faith I was not a real Christian to start with. If I recall correctly, those on the board who questioned the validity of your faith based the reasoning on your claims of what you believed made you a Christian. Well, in my early twenties I used to have a personal and close relationship with Him. He was there, I could even sense Him and the Holy Spirit physically. It is true. Ciao - viole Then why did fine-sounding arguments cause you to turn your back on Him - if you believe He was there and could sence Him physically? Because I now believe that was deluding myself. It is possible to delude oneselves and feel non-existent physical presences. But I might be terribly wrong in my current belief. It could be that I am deluding myself now, who knows? As a Christian, you probably agree that I might be wrong today. But if I am wrong today, it is possible and likely that I was right in the past and I was really having personal relationships with God. That would make me a real ex-Christian, wouldn't it? Ciao - viole NO that would make God a liar.... 1 Jn 2:19 19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us; but they went out that they might be made manifest, that none of them were of us. NKJV Love, Steven This verse does not cover all who leave. To believe so is to be misguided. Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God but faith is lost through deception and that deception through disobedience to that which is revealed. The one who falls away never realizes what they lost. It all seems natural to them but they did not take heed how they heard but let his words fall to the ground and that which they seemed to have was taken from them. Those John spoke about was in the direct context of those who never believed in the first place and were not of us. The two are completely separate in nature. Consider the parable of the sewer. Those upon stony ground believed but only for a time then fell away. Just as there is coming a huge falling away just prior to the man of perdition being revealed. It sounds to me that viole just did not do diligence in maintaining her relationship and the relationship was lost. Bummer. Gary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthur Durnan Posted July 14, 2012 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 121 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 2,782 Content Per Day: 0.36 Reputation: 49 Days Won: 1 Joined: 06/14/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted July 14, 2012 BTW, believe it or not, they now have Dial-A-Prayer for Atheism! You call up, it rings & rings, but nobody ever answers. Truth to tell, a self-concocted atheist cannot find the Creator-God for the same reason a thief cannot find a police officer. Psalm 10:4 is right on: "The unbeliever thru the pride of his countenance will not seek after God!" It's not that they can't, but only that they won't! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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