AnotherTraveler Posted October 17, 2004 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 80 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,595 Content Per Day: 0.22 Reputation: 10 Days Won: 0 Joined: 09/12/2004 Status: Offline Share Posted October 17, 2004 Why would you be inclined to believe that we acted like Fred Phelps? So you are a part of this group? Were you one of the ones arrested? Why didn'y you say so to start with? If you have intimate knowledge of this group, please speak up. Michael Marcavage is a close friend of mine and he is above reproach. Can you explain why this "above reproach" brother and 9 others were unlawfully blocking the entrance to the court house? They are protesting the violation of the law by others by violating the law themselves? TEN MEN BLOCKADE THE ENTRANCE TO CITY HALL TO PREVENT THE DISTRIBUTION OF SAME-SEX MARRIAGE LICENSES 2/20/04 SAN FRANCISCO, CA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnotherTraveler Posted October 17, 2004 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 80 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,595 Content Per Day: 0.22 Reputation: 10 Days Won: 0 Joined: 09/12/2004 Status: Offline Share Posted October 17, 2004 This is the manner that the Lord has had me use in dealing with homosexuals. I go to a coffee house where several of them frequent, and I play chess, have a cup or two of coffee, and visit with them as though I am not a wide eyed religious nut (see how sneeky I can be? ) I wait for the Lord to make an opportunity, because I believe that the bible teaches that they can't come to the Lord unless they are drawn anyway. (John 6:44 KJV) No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day. I have had several very fine witnessing/teaching sessions with small groups of both male and female homosexuals, and you would be very surprised at the results. One young lady really believes what the bible says, but was unaware of the scriptures that related to this terrible sin. With a very meak attitude she asked what she should do, as she didn't want to break her lover's heart, but she really wanted to avoid hell and desired to serve the Lord. None of this was hostile, and they marveled that I was a Christian, because all their experiences with Christians have been condemning, hateful, and terrifying. My point is that the aggressive approach of protests and blockades is not the way that the Lord has led me, and I have seen so many people come to Christ personally that I can't get an accurate count anymore (not bragging, just the facts). How many souls are these tactics winning? I am always concerned when we come across as out of control and disrespecting authorities, so please don't be offended, but please do give more information. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lifeandliberty Posted October 17, 2004 Group: Members Followers: 0 Topic Count: 23 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 68 Content Per Day: 0.01 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 09/16/2004 Status: Offline Author Share Posted October 17, 2004 (edited) Why would you be inclined to believe that we acted like Fred Phelps? So you are a part of this group? Were you one of the ones arrested? Why didn'y you say so to start with? If you have intimate knowledge of this group, please speak up. Michael Marcavage is a close friend of mine and he is above reproach. Can you explain why this "above reproach" brother and 9 others were unlawfully blocking the entrance to the court house? They are protesting the violation of the law by others by violating the law themselves? TEN MEN BLOCKADE THE ENTRANCE TO CITY HALL TO PREVENT THE DISTRIBUTION OF SAME-SEX MARRIAGE LICENSES 2/20/04 SAN FRANCISCO, CA Edited October 17, 2004 by lifeandliberty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnotherTraveler Posted October 18, 2004 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 80 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,595 Content Per Day: 0.22 Reputation: 10 Days Won: 0 Joined: 09/12/2004 Status: Offline Share Posted October 18, 2004 My information came from the repent america website....The quote can be seen by following the link I posted, I didn't post from some other site, but from their own. There is no need for me to call him, I merely pointed out that this is civil disobedience and public protest, not a gospel meeting. The preaching of the word of God is different from militantism, protesting, and civil disobedience. The following is their headline off of their website... TEN MEN BLOCKADE THE ENTRANCE TO CITY HALL... In military terms, a blockade is a preemptive strike, in political terms, a blockade is an act of war when done between nations. This is the use of passive resistance and numerical force to exercise your willful decision for headlines. This is not a what the Apostles did, not what the early church did, and most importantly, not what Jesus did. I didn't bring up the word reproach, you did. I am concerned that such tactics lead to physical attacks and usless confrontations, and not always by the homosexuals either. I absolutely disagree with this method, and I ask for biblical exanples of anyone doing such a thing, or teaching that such a thing should be done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnotherTraveler Posted October 18, 2004 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 80 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,595 Content Per Day: 0.22 Reputation: 10 Days Won: 0 Joined: 09/12/2004 Status: Offline Share Posted October 18, 2004 The Christians were seeking to enforce the law that was being broken by the City. These Christians trying to enforce the law traveled over 2000 miles from Pennsylvania to California, so concerned were they that the law of another state was being broken in a particular city? Who gave these out of state Christians the authority to try to force the officials in the court house to do anything? This is a news stunt, nothing more. The scriptures teach us to obey the laws of the land, not to set ourselves up as judges over the officials that are given the legal responsibility and authority to serve tasks in our country. Does California have no judicial system, that they called for your handful fo protesters to come out and help them? This is just so arrogant, and the result is to cast this self righteous blanket over the entire church. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apothanein kerdos Posted October 18, 2004 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 331 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 8,713 Content Per Day: 1.21 Reputation: 21 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/28/2004 Status: Offline Share Posted October 18, 2004 Mr. Marcavage carries a camera when he can, because of the blatant Gestapo tactics that have been used on him in the past. From preaching at Gay day at the Phillies Game to driving the Aborted fetus truck, this man has been subjected to some of the most violent law enforcement tactics available. This all can be researched! The point is, how are you going to react when it comes your time? Will you back down, or say Repent for the kingdom of heaven is at hand? Because IT IS coming SOON to American Christians! As early as 2009, or 2010! Are ye prepared? Well the aborted babies truck is just uncalled for. While it gets across a strong message and if I were in a court room setting in front of the Supreme Court would be an excellent compelling arguement in and of itself...little children see it. I have no problem with the image if it's placed in front of congress or the supreme court or a room full of adults. But on the street where children can see it? Come on... As for American Christians...so what? Are you fearful of persecution? The Bible says to count it joy when we are persecuted in His name...so I will. I guess if someone's house is burning down we could just be real polite and say..."hi'ya, is it ok if I could talk to ya about gettin out of your house? I don't want to offend ya......I would just like to know if ya wanna get burned up in there or not" Â or we could say......YOUR HOUSE IS ON FIRE!!!!!!!!! YOUR HOUSE IS ON FIRE!!!!!!!!!!!!! (NIV)Acts 17:30In the past God overlooked such ignorance, but now he commands all people everywhere to repent. 31For he has set a day when he will judge the world with justice by the man he has appointed. He has given proof of this to all men by raising him from the dead." There's a way to do it in love though. Someone's house being on fire is much different than I agree with you that these people are spreading hate and discontint and are hurting the cause of Christ much more than helping. How can anyone expect to get someone that is in the situation of being a Homosexual to respond to anything but love, patients and time. There will come a time it is said that the people who will kill us will think that they are doing God a favor. We don't need to give the devil any help with this, and their actions are doing just that... We agree? Did I just hear a trumpet sou....................... Don't assume the worst when you hear that a Christian is arrested for sharing the Gospel. I have never met Fred Phelps but from what I hear, I wouldn't have any dealings with him. Your comment regarding the cameras tells me that you have done little open air preaching. Nowadays, most street preachers across the nation (and I personally know dozens) carry video cameras. Unjust arrests happen often and harrassment is common and video keeps many ministers out of jail and on the street. A Bible, hand held tape recorder and video camera are the standard equipment these days for those who seek to spread the gospel through popen air preaching. Most of the time though they're arrested because they've broken the law in some way and they're resisting arrest. I've done open air preaching a few times but find it much more fruitful if I develope a relationship first. Please don't speak about ruining ones witness as you pass judgement upon us without speaking to us. Why would you be inclined to believe that we acted like Fred Phelps? Please don't speak evil of a brother without seeking out the truth. Becaust most Christians who tote signs that say, "Homosexuals are going to hell" just rub me the wrong way. You will never convert a homosexual that way. It takes a friendly relationship with them and tons and tons of prayer and guidance. Michael Marcavage is a close friend of mine and he is above reproach. Don't assume that he "got in the face of an officer" by looking a a still shot. You are misguided in your assumption. His phone number is on has site, why don't you call him and find out what he's like before speaking ill of a brother. I'm not trying to be contentious, but statements are being made on this thread that are not based upon truth and those making them seem more inclined to speak ill against brothers than to find out who they really are. This should not be. I think I will. If I'm wrong (and I really hope I am) then I will offer up any help that I can. There are some that need compassion, there are some that need hard fast truth. Both the sword and scalpel are sharp. You're right larry. However, the lost, unless it's a rare occasion, warrent a hard fast truth. This is the manner that the Lord has had me use in dealing with homosexuals. I go to a coffee house where several of them frequent, and I play chess, have a cup or two of coffee, and visit with them as though I am not a wide eyed religious nut (see how sneeky I can be? ) Now now AT....would Jesus do this? Oh wait.....yeah....He would......... I have had several very fine witnessing/teaching sessions with small groups of both male and female homosexuals, and you would be very surprised at the results. One young lady really believes what the bible says, but was unaware of the scriptures that related to this terrible sin. With a very meak attitude she asked what she should do, as she didn't want to break her lover's heart, but she really wanted to avoid hell and desired to serve the Lord. None of this was hostile, and they marveled that I was a Christian, because all their experiences with Christians have been condemning, hateful, and terrifying. My point is that the aggressive approach of protests and blockades is not the way that the Lord has led me, and I have seen so many people come to Christ personally that I can't get an accurate count anymore (not bragging, just the facts). AT, my respect for you has like....seriously just gone through the roof because of this. That is absolutely awesome. The believers arrested in San Francisco were not arrested for "illegally" blocking a court house. They had gone to the front of a line where homosexuals were "illegally" obtaining a marriage certificate in a City and state where it is illegal to be issued. The Christians were seeking to enforce the law that was being broken by the City. Do more research on this by checking out Repent America Things are not always as they seem when reported online. Some research will reveal that there are those who seek to uphold the law and are arrested for it. Give Michael Marcavage a call yourself and he can explain what happened in great detail. Let's not speak ill of a brother without giving him a chance to set the record straight. I stand by my "above reproach" statement. The only problem with this is that it's a form of vigilante justice. Instead of letting the courts act on the issue, as legally should happen, you instead chose to act illegally. Thus, the arrest was well deserved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papasangel Posted October 18, 2004 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 70 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,513 Content Per Day: 0.19 Reputation: 39 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/19/2002 Status: Offline Birthday: 08/27/1959 Share Posted October 18, 2004 At least these christians are in good company Our Lord Jesus Christ was reviled for telling it like it is too folks and they crucified Him. Tako you are so right. The tiems they are a changing and not for the better either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apothanein kerdos Posted October 18, 2004 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 331 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 8,713 Content Per Day: 1.21 Reputation: 21 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/28/2004 Status: Offline Share Posted October 18, 2004 At least these christians are in good company Our Lord Jesus Christ was reviled for telling it like it is too folks and they crucified Him. Tako you are so right. The tiems they are a changing and not for the better either. Jesus never broke the laws or condemned people to hell when He spoke. He was never harsh to the lost, only to the pharisees (who were harsh to the lost). Would Jesus carry signs to protest homosexuality, or would He go up and talk to them, invited them out to eat, and then witness to them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kabowd Posted October 22, 2004 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 112 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 3,489 Content Per Day: 0.48 Reputation: 13 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/28/2004 Status: Offline Share Posted October 22, 2004 Kindness leads to repentance... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seraph Posted October 22, 2004 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 21 Topic Count: 129 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 1,801 Content Per Day: 0.23 Reputation: 483 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/06/2002 Status: Offline Share Posted October 22, 2004 2 Timothy 2:24-26 The Lord's bond-servant must not be quarrelsome, but be kind to all, able to teach, patient when wronged, with gentleness correcting those who are in opposition, if perhaps God may grant them repentance leading to the knowledge of the truth, and they may come to their senses and escape from the snare of the devil, having been held captive by him to do his will. I do not understand those who shout things like, "God hates homosexuals," etc. God hates the sin of homosexuality as He hates all sin. But God is love. Someone who is supposed to be a Christian is supposed to display the Fruit of the Spirit... the Fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness and faithfulness... that is not mulitple choice. How likely is it that someone would to turn to the One they believe hates them? Would it not be better to display love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness and faithfulness and tell them the Good News that God loves each of us and doesn't want us to be separated from Him by our sins (whatever sins those may be) so He sent Jesus that we might be saved? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts