Eleven Christians Arrested and Jailed For Sharing

[Guest Elijah 1]

If more people were righteous and took a stand, we would not be where we are today!

And of some have compassion, making a difference. And others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire, hating even the garment spotted by the flesh. Jude 22,23.

Some are saved by compassion, some by fear, all in all it works as one. We have forgot the fear part! We preach God's love only! While Hell enlarges its self every hour. When was the last time you heard a good old fashioned HELL and Damnation message?

We must clean the moat out of our own eye first, that WE may see more clearly!

If Christians took a stand, such as these 11, we would still have prayer in schools.

Abortion would still be murder.

Homosexuality would still get you jail time.

[apothanein kerdos]

If more people were righteous and took a stand, we would not be where we are today!

And of some have compassion, making a difference. And others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire, hating even the garment spotted by the flesh. Jude 22,23.

Some are saved by compassion, some by fear, all in all it works as one. We have forgot the fear part! We preach God's love only! While Hell enlarges its self every hour. When was the last time you heard a good old fashioned HELL and Damnation message?

We must clean the moat out of our own eye first, that WE may see more clearly!

If Christians took a stand, such as these 11, we would still have prayer in schools.

Abortion would still be murder.

Homosexuality would still get you jail time.

And we would live in a world devoid of grace. If more Christians showed the love of God with conviction than this world would be turned upside down. It was Ghandi who said, "I would follow Christ if it were not for the Christians."

We are to judge the action but not the person. We are to tell the person we disagree with their action but still love them. Toting around a sign that condemns homosexuals will never lead anyone to Christ.

[AnotherTraveler]

It was Ghandi who said, "I would follow Christ if it were not for the Christians."

Ouch :down:

[apothanein kerdos]

It was Ghandi who said, "I would follow Christ if it were not for the Christians."

Ouch :down:

The entire reason behind him saying that, btw, was that he wanted to speak from some of the church pulpits in England to tell them how the Indians were being treated by the British government...however we denied because he was a "pagan"....imagine what would have happened had that relationship been established....

The thing is, sometimes we as Christians are so stuck on our rules that we're unwilling to look past them. Jesus didn't picket the tax collectors booth or sit down and block the entrance to the brothel...instead He developed a relationship with those people and brought them out of it.

The key to a successful movie is to include some element of love. Humans are naturally drawn to love, it's just how we're programmed. If we love people will naturally be drawn to it. Yes we need to be firm, however we need to be wise. Picketing a place and yelling at someone that they're going to hell is not going to work. Developing a relationship with someone and showing them the consequences of their actions is.

Oh well, my two cents.

And yeah, the comment does hurt, it stung a lot (and still does) when I first heard it. BTW, I think I got the quote wrong, i think he actually said this:

"I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ."

The other way I've heard it quoted was:

"It it weren't for Christians, I'd be a Christian."

Basically, we get the idea.

[papasangel]

I seem to remember Jesus having righteous anger concerning the moneychangers in the temple and the merchants that sold sacrifical animals. Didn't he turn them out in righteous anger? And I do agree that Jesus did make His point in a mild manner in teaching the mulitiudes.

I have met many homosexuals too and worked side by side with them. There are ways as Another Traveler to make our point of view known. I have had several talks with them in a calm non condemming manner and seen three turn from their sins when they realized that what they were doing was sinful. I do admit that the majority have still kept to their ways but the seed is planted in them too and who knows maybe one day it too will take root.

[Guest SwordVision]

Count it a joy...

If they hate me, they will hate you...

Build for yourself treasures in heaven...

It's not new. Ever heard of Stephan? Is it right? no, but it happens. Standing for what is truelly right will not always be seen by the majority as right.

Narrow is the path...

I praise God for the boldness those believers showed is support of the One True God.

Looking beyond George, John, Fred, I see light.

[apothanein kerdos]

I seem to remember Jesus having righteous anger concerning the moneychangers in the temple and the merchants that sold sacrifical animals.  Didn't he turn them out in righteous anger?  And I do agree that Jesus did make His point in a mild manner in teaching the mulitiudes.

I have met many homosexuals too and worked side by side with them.  There are ways as Another Traveler to make our point of view known.  I have had several talks with them in a calm non condemming manner and seen three turn from their sins when they realized that what they were doing was sinful.  I do admit that the majority have still kept to their ways but the seed is planted in them too and who knows maybe one day it too will take root.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

We need to keep in mind that Jesus did this because these people were disgracing the temple of God....

[Guest Light Bearer]

Kindness leads to repentance...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That's an interesting statement. Do you have a specific Biblical reference that states this? Where has Christ ever said, "Kindness leads to repentance?"

From what I understand of the Bible, it is not kindness that causes one to repent. It is not God's love that makes people look at Him and say, "Oh...He's so good...I'll stop all the bad things I do and follow Him."

Where does God's love and goodness even show us our wrong? How does kindness give someone an urge to stop their sin?

Kindness and love is something one experiences AFTER they have already repented. It is not a prerequisite to repentance.

What is the prerequisite?

To sum it up in one word:

Fear.

The Bible says that, "The fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge." and "The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom."

The Bible also admonishes us to, "Work out your salvation with fear and trembling."

Christ said, "Fear not the one who can kill the body, but rather fear Him who can destroy both body and soul in hell."

What causes one to repent? What shows someone the NEED to turn from their evil ways?

It's not the love of God, it is the FEAR of God.

It is the knowledge that God is wholly righteous and perfect and that we, in our sinful states, are vile and wretched.

It is the knowledge that because sin is such an offense to God that, He will punish it with DEATH.

If God, through His grace, has given eyes to see....He has given you those eyes so that you can see how desperately in need you are of His forgiveness.

And it is through that awestricken fear that we NEED Him to forgive us, that we strive to turn from our wicked ways.

"Kindness leads to repentance" does not ring true. Kindness and love are a result of repentance, not a requirement.

The apostles all preached "Repent ye, and turn from your wicked ways" and THEN times of refreshing will come.

Why do you follow Christ?

Is it because He's your buddy and you really think he's cool?

Or is it because you give due reverence to Him and are following because He is the righteous LORD over all creation?

If answered yes to the first question, then you're missing a very important ingredient in your walk with God.

Why is it that someone is interposing themselves in order to preach the Truth from God's word, that so many so called, "Christians" condemn them as unloving and unChristlike?

If someone is about to run off the edge of a cliff, what do you do?

Do you casually walk by and say in a soft loving voice, "God loves you, sir...just keep on going the way you are."

Or...

Do you run up to them and yell, "STOP! TURN AROUND!" (Oh gosh...raising your voice? How ungodly.)

Which is the more loving? The method that makes the one running to destruction feel good about themselves? Or the method that shakes them out of their rythem and disturbs them?

I'm not ashamed to say it, those Christians that were arrested are my close friends. In fact, one of them was my sister.

Those of you who were saying that the methods used by those who were arrested were unloving and not Christ-like, REALLY do not know my sister. In fact, it's laughable that anyone would suggest that she is anything but a godly and upright young girl who loves the Lord and loved every single person that she came in contact with while she was on that tour.

Is the love of Christ something that coddles us until we decide to repent?

Or is the love of Christ something that forces us to see the reality of our sin, so that we see a NEED to repent?

"But that's offensive" you say. I find it interesting that Christ said, "I came not to being peace into the world, but a sword." The Word of God and God's Truth is many times likened unto a sword.

Anyone know what a sword is?

An absurdly simple question, I know. But just humor me. Is a sword something that's comfortable? Is a sword a pillow? A crutch?

No. A sword is an offensive weapon.

Those of you who say, "We need to show love not condemn the sinner."

That's NOT the sword of the Word. That's a pillow. That's the love of a little pink bunny that wants to give you a big hug. It is not the love of a holy God that wants you to REPENT.

Sinners are already condemned those homosexuals at that event are already condemned by God's Word.

Now...which is loving?

To tell them that they are actually NOT condemned and that God loves them just the way they are? To let them go on their way thinking God loves them?

Or to tell them that they ARE condemned and show them that Christ does so that they might be SET FREE from that condemnation?

I found it humorous that someone quoted Ghandi when he said, "I would follow Christ if it were not for the Christians."

Does this reflect poorly on the Christian? Or on Ghandi?

He may just as easily have said, "I would follow Christ, if it were not for Christ."

Who WOULDN'T follow someone who will save them at no cost? Who WOULDN'T serve a God that conformed to their will instead of demanding obedience?

Everyone LOVES to have a play-dough Jesus...a savior that is molded to fit THEIR lives and THEIR wants. A savior who will save them on THEIR terms.

But NOBODY wants to follow a God who demands obedience. NOBODY wants to follow a savior who demands a life for life trade. Christ gave His life for you, and it is your REASONABLE service to live you life in complete obedience and sacrifice to Him.

Poor Ghandi...he didn't want to change his life in order to conform to Christ. Rather he wanted Christ and the Church of Christ to conform to him and to accept his way of life over what the Bible teaches.

Isn't it sad that the church has bought into this?

The church has bought into the Ghandi guilt-trip. Most Christians in these days, have believed that they must be acceptable and pleasing to the world and make the world happy in order to be effective for God.

Are we not the body of Christ? Is Christ supposed to conform to the world? Or is the world supposed to conform to Christ?

Those who are unwilling to conform to Christ's image may say, "I would be a Christian, if it weren't for all the Christians." But what they really are saying is, "I would be a Christian, if it weren't for Christ."

The Truth of the matter is, it is Christ who condemns sin. It is Christ who calls all to repentance. It is Christ who demands that His followers conform to Himself.

Why is it that when His people reflect these attributes, you "Christians" condemn them as being, "unChristlike?" Do you even KNOW the God you claim to worship?

[seraph]

Kindness leads to repentance...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That's an interesting statement. Do you have a specific Biblical reference that states this? Where has Christ ever said, "Kindness leads to repentance?"

(...snip)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Speaking the Truth in love is not condoning sin... it is having compassion on the sinner while not compromising the Truth, imo.

Romans 2:4

Or do you think lightly of the riches of His kindness and tolerance and patience, not knowing that the kindness of God leads you to repentance?

2 Timothy 2:24-26

The Lord's bond-servant must not be quarrelsome, but be kind to all, able to teach, patient when wronged,

with gentleness correcting those who are in opposition, if perhaps God may grant them repentance leading to the knowledge of the truth,

and they may come to their senses and escape from the snare of the devil, having been held captive by him to do his will.

[Guest Light Bearer]

Kindness leads to repentance...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That's an interesting statement. Do you have a specific Biblical reference that states this? Where has Christ ever said, "Kindness leads to repentance?"

(...snip)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Speaking the Truth in love is not condoning sin... it is having compassion on the sinner while not compromising the Truth, imo.

And I'm not saying anything against speaking the Truth in love. But most Christians, in my experience, when they talk about being loving to the sinner it is to the exclusion of the Truth. Or they make the Truth "easier to digest" by watering it down with a bunch of fluff.

I suppose the reverse is true with some, who only preach the Truth to the exclusion of love. However, the Truth always accomplishes what it was sent out to accomplish.

It is better to be completely Truthful and spare not, than to be partly Truthful and "loving" them all the way. Because you really don't do anyone any favors when you keep the complete unvarnished Truth to yourself and try to make it more acceptable to human ears. That is NOT loving.

Those who preach out of love and complete Truth are the best preachers.

Those who preach out of complete Truth but still need to work on the love and compassion aspect can still be used by God, as they are still speaking the Truth.

But when you play with God's Truth and change it; water it down, in order to make it sound nicer...you change the Truth you are teaching and it is no longer from God. This will not be used of God to further His kingdom.

Romans 2:4

Or do you think lightly of the riches of His kindness and tolerance and patience, not knowing that the kindness of God leads you to repentance?

Alright...here's where some Bible versions can give a completely different view on something.

The KJV words it this way:

Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance?

Are goodness and kindness the same thing? You might think so, but there is a notable difference. God's kindness is specifically in how He displays His love to His children. God's goodness is His overall character. Everything that is God, is good. God is the very essence of goodness.

This does not disagree with what I was saying. It is when we truly see God for how good and perfect and holy He is, that we properly revere and fear Him unto repentance.

2 Timothy 2:24-26

The Lord's bond-servant must not be quarrelsome, but be kind to all, able to teach, patient when wronged,

with gentleness correcting those who are in opposition, if perhaps God may grant them repentance leading to the knowledge of the truth,

and they may come to their senses and escape from the snare of the devil, having been held captive by him to do his will.

This passage is a good one. God is the one who grants repentance. In other words, God must give you the ability to repent of your sins. And if God is the one who grants this, on what basis does He grant it?

Romans 10:14-17

14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?

15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!

16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?

17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

It is by the hearing of the Truth of God's Word that faith comes unto repentance and salvation.

So if God grants repentance to those whom He allows to receive His Truth, then does it really matter exactly how that message was delivered?

People talk about "turning people off" to the gospel.

Here's something to chew on, in regards to that. Man is completely spiritually depraved. The sinful man is already off!

So if the Truth on God's Word is what He uses to bring faith and repentance and to "turn people on" to spiritual things, then how does human presentation effect this at all?

Can someone's tone effect the content of God's Truth? Does the volume of someone's voice change the fact that what is being declared is God's Word?