Chic-Fil-A boycott and support

[Bold Believer]

Brother Billy plans to "Eat more Chix."

http://www.wnd.com/2...ly-chick-fil-a/

Yay Billy!

[Guest shiloh357]

But how do you define morality from the perspective of our political system? If you are using Christianity only, then by definition there could be no freedom of religion in this country, since any worship of false gods is considered immoral.

It might surprise you and others to learn that the Constitution doesn't provide "freedom of religion" in the context of other religions. When the Constitution was being framed the first ammendment came into being in order to protect the freedoms of Christians from the tyranny of a state church. Many of the founding fathers like John Adams, Samuel Adams, et al. favored a state church. It was Baptists from Virginia aided by Thomas Jefferson and James Madison who fought for the first ammendment, but it was for the protection of Christians. They did not have Buddhists, and Hindus in mind when they were trying to get the first ammendment passed. If we read the Constitution through the lens of the time period in which it was written and in the shoes of those who had affected its final form, the notion of protecting the freedoms of other religions or other moralities apart from the Bible wouldn't enter into the equation at all.

Therefore in order to have freedom of religion in this country the system of morality can't be based exclusively off of Christian values.

The moral system of this country is almost entirely Christian. Our laws are based on Christian values. What other moral systems should have imput?? Should Sharia law with its gender aphartied, honor killings and denigration of women be part of our moral code? Should pedophiles have a say in what our moral culture should look like?

Or maybe we should let the value system of Buddhism with its eight step path to nothingness and lack of passion/desire be our guide?? Where would all of the passionate inventers, discoverers and civil rights leaders be under a buddhist form of morality???

That's why morality shouldn't be the foundation of our laws, and instead it should be focused around the rights (and violations) regarding other people.

Every law we have on the books is designed to keep immoral people from imposing their immorality on us. We legislate against certain moral values all of the time. Christian morality is at the very core of our legal and judicial system.

[nebula]

I can't find confirmation, but I read an article that indicates that even the ACLU considers the mayor's actions a breach in Constitutional rights.

[ayin jade]

When Mormonism openly practiced underage polygamy, the US government was on them like white on rice.

Sadly not so in Arizona. Polygamist towns here have some political clout and it is political suicide to prosecute them unless the state cannot avoid it. The state even had to refrain from enacting a law recently that said that all law enforcement employees must report all crimes against those who are underage or risk being fired. They had to refrain from this law because it meant the polygamist towns would not have any cops on the payroll.

[Bold Believer]

When Mormonism openly practiced underage polygamy, the US government was on them like white on rice.

Sadly not so in Arizona. Polygamist towns here have some political clout and it is political suicide to prosecute them unless the state cannot avoid it. The state even had to refrain from enacting a law recently that said that all law enforcement employees must report all crimes against those who are underage or risk being fired. They had to refrain from this law because it meant the polygamist towns would not have any cops on the payroll.

I take it these towns practice UNDERAGE polygamy (they're FLDS)? Also, my reference was regarding the early days of the LDS cult, back when our government was more righteous. Nowadays, our government supports unnatural copulation and permits those who do it to 'marry'. Do you think they care about someone's abusing underaged girls? There is a new book out called The Mormonization of America which goes into how the Mormons have been slowly creeping into American society. I saw it at Books-A-Million.

[brightmorningstar]

Good for Chick - fil A It would be good to wear a Chick fil A T-shirt in other places such as KFC and McDo. See if they value the money or same sex sex the most. I can predict the latter.

UN declaration of Human Rights articles 16 adn 18 protect not only man and woman in marriage, but freedom of religious expression. If the US doesnt want to uphold Human Rights I suggest you guys do what you like.

[Oh Hamburgers!]

But how do you define morality from the perspective of our political system? If you are using Christianity only, then by definition there could be no freedom of religion in this country, since any worship of false gods is considered immoral.

It might surprise you and others to learn that the Constitution doesn't provide "freedom of religion" in the context of other religions. When the Constitution was being framed the first ammendment came into being in order to protect the freedoms of Christians from the tyranny of a state church. Many of the founding fathers like John Adams, Samuel Adams, et al. favored a state church. It was Baptists from Virginia aided by Thomas Jefferson and James Madison who fought for the first ammendment, but it was for the protection of Christians. They did not have Buddhists, and Hindus in mind when they were trying to get the first ammendment passed. If we read the Constitution through the lens of the time period in which it was written and in the shoes of those who had affected its final form, the notion of protecting the freedoms of other religions or other moralities apart from the Bible wouldn't enter into the equation at all.

Therefore in order to have freedom of religion in this country the system of morality can't be based exclusively off of Christian values.

The moral system of this country is almost entirely Christian. Our laws are based on Christian values. What other moral systems should have imput?? Should Sharia law with its gender aphartied, honor killings and denigration of women be part of our moral code? Should pedophiles have a say in what our moral culture should look like?

Or maybe we should let the value system of Buddhism with its eight step path to nothingness and lack of passion/desire be our guide?? Where would all of the passionate inventers, discoverers and civil rights leaders be under a buddhist form of morality???

That's why morality shouldn't be the foundation of our laws, and instead it should be focused around the rights (and violations) regarding other people.

Every law we have on the books is designed to keep immoral people from imposing their immorality on us. We legislate against certain moral values all of the time. Christian morality is at the very core of our legal and judicial system.

If the founders meant that freedom of religion should be narrowly interpreted as meaning Christian religions, how come article VI paragraph 3 talks about there being no religious tests to be in office?

from http://www.house.gov/house/Constitution/Constitution.html

Clause 3: The Senators and Representatives before mentioned, and the Members of the several State Legislatures, and all executive and judicial Officers, both of the United States and of the several States, shall be bound by Oath or Affirmation, to support this Constitution; but no religious Test shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust under the United States.

Now, regarding freedom of religion (including 1st amendment for context)

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

There don't appear to be any exceptions there when it comes to no laws establishing a religion or prohibiting the excercise of religion & the right to assemble. If they meant Christianity only you would think they would have explicitly mentioned something.. I mean it's not like Christianity was the only religion at the time they made it

So I don't buy it that other religions aren't protected. I do agree a lot of our systems morality comes from the bible and christian values, but the US was specifically designed NOT to have a state church or establish a religion, so it's only natural that over time things have been added & fleshed out in our system that takes a hybrid of christian & secular humanism.

[Guest shiloh357]

If the founders meant that freedom of religion should be narrowly interpreted as meaning Christian religions, how come article VI paragraph 3 talks about there being no religious tests to be in office?

I don't see how that is relevant. It means that they did not have to hold to particular set of doctrines or belong to a particular denomination. Today, we would view it as meaning that you don't have to belong to the Christian religion.

There don't appear to be any exceptions there when it comes to no laws establishing a religion or prohibiting the excercise of religion & the right to assemble. If they meant Christianity only you would think they would have explicitly mentioned something.. I mean it's not like Christianity was the only religion at the time they made it

But Christianity was the only religion in the mind of framers of that ammendment. The historical context was not about providing a multi-cultural society. They were afraid that the US would end up in the same condition as England with something comparable to the Church of England in the US. Had the Christians NOT fought to have the first ammendment in the Constitution, you would be required to be an Episcopalian. You need to understand it in the context of the issues that precipitated it and not in the context of how it is interpreted today. It is the intent of the framers that I am getting at.

The Church of England was in the US at that time primarily in Virginia and they heavily persecuted the Baptists of Virginia. It was the Baptists Danbury Virginia who sought confirmation and assurance from President Jefferson that there would not be a state run Church, which is why Jefferson replied that a state run church was impossible due to a separation between the two. The concern was not that Buddhists and Hindus be able to worship freely. The concern was that Christian liberty would be stymied by a government sanctioned religious system.

We have broadened the application to make it possible for other religions to operate freely here, and that is fine. But I am getting at the original intent and historical context of the first ammendment. It was entirely centered around the Christian faith and since that was the assumed meaning behind the word "religion" at that time, there was no need for them to stop and have to define which religion they were referring to. They had no frame of reference for a multi-cultural nation like ours at that time, so such a concept would not have entered their minds.

So I don't buy it that other religions aren't protected.

(sigh...) I didn't say they aren't protected.

[Bold Believer]

Uh guys, it was the Danbury CONNECTICUT Baptists, not Virginia whom Jefferson wrote to.

At the Founding, I am not even sure that there WERE any other religions but Christian denominations (and Jews perhaps) here in the USA. When immigrants came, they brought their religions with them. By that time, Christianity was firmly rooted in the US.

Regarding the practice of other religions, I believe that the FF may have had Micah 4:5 in mind.

"Though all the peoples walk Each in the name of his god, As for us, we will walk In the name of the LORD our God forever and ever."

For good look at the Founding Fathers and Early Americans' religious beliefs, I suggest The American Covenant by Peter Marshall.

[Mark2005]

I support Mr.Cathy's right to say whatever he wants. Probably not the smartest thing. But, then again, it's not like he has the market cornered on saying dumb things.

It won't influence my decision to eat or not eat at Chick Fil A one way or the other. I like their food. That's all that matters.