victory777 Posted September 23, 2012 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 31 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 213 Content Per Day: 0.04 Reputation: 22 Days Won: 1 Joined: 06/30/2008 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/06/1949 Share Posted September 23, 2012 a number of yrs ago i backslid for neally 7yrs,id been in the Lord for bout 19yrs then ,and yes id tasted the wine of the Holy Spirit,my heart had turned bitter though unforgiveness,,i dont believe we can lose our salvation,yes we can turn our backs on the Lord,as i did ,the Holy Spirit is so gentle Hes draws us back to the Lord, I was given that verse out of hebrews ,it nearly stopped me from comeing back to the Lord,i thought why if iv lost my salvation,should i go down that road,,we need to be carefully brothers /sisters how we share Gods word,no offence meant,,(,iv been back with the lord a few yrs) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sevenseas Posted September 24, 2012 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 30 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,373 Content Per Day: 0.76 Reputation: 683 Days Won: 22 Joined: 02/28/2012 Status: Offline Share Posted September 24, 2012 I believe it refers to a person who was truly saved, truly tasted eternal life by eating of the Bread of Life, truly had the Holy Spirit indwelling, but who fell away by renouncing Yeshua. At that point he is without a sacrifice for his sins. In order to receive that sacrifice again, Yeshua would need to be crucified again on his behalf. That being impossible, he cannot be received back no matter how much he repents. This passage cannot refer to falling away by sinning unless the sin is unbelief in Messiah Yeshua or the willful sin spoken of in Hebrews 10. Well if a person renounces the Lord Jesus Christ (remember Peter denied Him also) and never repents of that then I agree they are lost. So basically, I would agree with your statement. If we sin and confess our sin, He is faithful and just to forgive our sin. John 1:9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeannieC Posted September 24, 2012 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 9 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 96 Content Per Day: 0.02 Reputation: 27 Days Won: 1 Joined: 08/04/2012 Status: Offline Birthday: 05/21/1970 Share Posted September 24, 2012 (edited) I believe it refers to a person who was truly saved, truly tasted eternal life by eating of the Bread of Life, truly had the Holy Spirit indwelling, but who fell away by renouncing Yeshua. At that point he is without a sacrifice for his sins. In order to receive that sacrifice again, Yeshua would need to be crucified again on his behalf. That being impossible, he cannot be received back no matter how much he repents. This passage cannot refer to falling away by sinning unless the sin is unbelief in Messiah Yeshua or the willful sin spoken of in Hebrews 10. Well if a person renounces the Lord Jesus Christ (remember Peter denied Him also) and never repents of that then I agree they are lost. So basically, I would agree with your statement. If we sin and confess our sin, He is faithful and just to forgive our sin. John 1:9 Yes, I agree sevenseas. I did turn away and I did renounce Jesus. I told Him I wanted nothing more to do with Him, wanted out of my baptism and for Him to free me from any contract between us. Was I truly saved before? I thought I was. Thank you God that He didn't leave me to my own pain and stupidity. Twelve years later, He drew me close to Him again and I repented of it all and He is working more in my life now than ever before. If a person becomes so hardened that they cannot repent then yes, they are lost and given over to a reprobate mind. That verse has worried me when I learned of it but if a person is able to feel Godly sorrow and repent then I believe they are able to be come back to God and are saved. Edited September 24, 2012 by JeannieC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sevenseas Posted September 24, 2012 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 30 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,373 Content Per Day: 0.76 Reputation: 683 Days Won: 22 Joined: 02/28/2012 Status: Offline Share Posted September 24, 2012 Jeannie I am SO glad you came back to Him. and yes we know that He drew you to Him again by His Spirit because we cannot come unless we are drawn In my case, I still believed but I had been so badly wounded by Christians that I wanted nothing more to do with the lot of them Of course, the devil took full advantage of my wounded state and I listened to his whisperings and went into the world while telling myself that all Christians were just liars (some are and some are not...God knows) Peter denied Christ and Christ knew beforehand that he would...he was restored. We are weak...God knows our frames...we live in His strength. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bold Believer Posted September 24, 2012 Group: Royal Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 121 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 1,931 Content Per Day: 0.35 Reputation: 126 Days Won: 8 Joined: 01/22/2009 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/13/1955 Share Posted September 24, 2012 Can a backslidden follower lose salvation? Hebrews 6:4-11 states: 4It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, 5who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age, 6if they fall away, to be brought back to repentance, becauseb to their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace. 7Land that drinks in the rain often falling on it and that produces a crop useful to those for whom it is farmed receives the blessing of God. 8But land that produces thorns and thistles is worthless and is in danger of being cursed. In the end it will be burned. 9Even though we speak like this, dear friends, we are confident of better things in your case—things that accompany salvation. 10God is not unjust; he will not forget your work and the love you have shown him as you have helped his people and continue to help them. 11We want each of you to show this same diligence to the very end, in order to make your hope sure. 12We do not want you to become lazy, but to imitate those who through faith and patience inherit what has been promised. What does this mean? Thank you 1. To whom was this written? Hebrew believers who were in danger of returning to Judaism and denying Christ. 2. What is the text saying? (a) The person is enlightened. The word is 'photizo' (fo-teed-zo) and it means that the individuals have been given clear knowledge of the matter at hand, in this case, who Jesus is. (b) The person has tasted of the heavenly gift. Tasted is important here. Geuomai (gyu-oh-mee) means that the individuals have had an experience regarding the subject matter. They have tried it. They've been to church, the Spirit has spoken to them regarding Christ and who He is. © They understand the origin of the gift: heavenly. The gift (dorea) here is not the Holy Spirit, but Christ. (d) They are partakers (metochos: may-toe-kos) or partners in a work of the Holy Spirit. They've done something which the Spirit had a part in. (e) They have tasted (there's that word again) the good word of God. The phrase 'good word' is kalos rhema. Kalos is good, rhema is the uttered or spoken word. Simply put, these individuals have had good teaching and experienced its benefits. (f) They have tasted the powers of the coming age. They've experienced the strength behind the words. In English, we'd say "They've seen what it can do." (g) IF...the smallest word in the English language. Unfortunately, the word 'if' is not there in Greek. The word 'kai' is used, a conjunctive (joining) word. "They have experienced and then..." is the idea here. (h) fall away...perhaps the key word in the whole section... The word here is not apostasia (to depart from a standard). It is instead the word parapipto (parah-peep-toe), meaning to turn aside or err. (i) to renew them unto repentance.... the word anakainizo (anna-kai-neezo) is used here, which means to renew or renovate, and repentance is metanoia (met-ah-noy-ah) meaning a change of mind. "If they have changed their mind back to their former belief, you can't get them to change it back to the correct belief a second time," is the idea being conveyed. Why not? Because of what happens...they recrucify Jesus Christ in their hearts, making his work of no avail to them. (This is not unlike the condition John speaks of regarding antichrists in 1 John 2:19: They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would [no doubt] have continued with us: but [they went out], that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.) These people were on the cusp. They knew everything they needed to know about Christ, who He was, His origins, His work on the Cross. They had mind knowledge. They'd sat under good teaching, and STILL they were about to leave to go back to Judaism. Fortunately, you didn't stop in your quote at v6 as so many do, and then come to the conclusion that these people lost their salvation. The 7th verse and following tells the tale: It's a matter of good heart-ground versus bad heart-ground. Jesus used similar language in the parable of the sower. The ground that drinks in the rain (The Word of God) and produces a crop (v7) for those who farm it is blessed of God. But land that produces thorns and thistles is cursed and its end is to be burned. Verse 8 is a clear illustration from Genesis 3:17-18. Who is farming that ground? The teachers who taught them the Scripture. It was good teaching (rain) but their heart is rejecting it. The ground has received the benefits of a proper watering and seeding and still producing lousy crops. Hope this helps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fez Posted September 24, 2012 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 683 Topics Per Day: 0.12 Content Count: 11,128 Content Per Day: 2.00 Reputation: 1,352 Days Won: 54 Joined: 02/03/2009 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/07/1952 Share Posted September 24, 2012 sevenseas said... 4It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, 5who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age, 6if they fall away, to be brought back to repentance, becauseb to their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace. Yes, but how do you reconcile that with many other scriptures indicating a person can backslide (the term used) but then repent of their sin and live for God (not meaning someone who bounces back and forth regularly) I agree with the fact that one can backslide, repent, and live for God. But is that the same as having God live in one? Do you see that as someone who denies God or lives sinfully? Many, many Christians live for God. But that is not what He wants of us. He wants us to live in Christ, and He in us. In a way, living for Him can lead to legalism and being oppressed by the law. Living with Him in us leads to the freedom that Grace affords. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sevenseas Posted September 24, 2012 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 30 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,373 Content Per Day: 0.76 Reputation: 683 Days Won: 22 Joined: 02/28/2012 Status: Offline Share Posted September 24, 2012 I agree with the fact that one can backslide, repent, and live for God. But is that the same as having God live in one? OK, well I guess it is the expressions being used that are throwing me off? I mean you are restored to God if and when you repent and the Holy Spirit indwells you (in fact He was very grieved when you backslid) and yes, God, by His Spirit is in that person Many, many Christians live for God. But that is not what He wants of us. He wants us to live in Christ, and He in us. In a way, living for Him can lead to legalism and being oppressed by the law. Living with Him in us leads to the freedom that Grace affords. Honestly I am not quite sure I get the difference you are stating? Sorry to drag it on..but... I agree we have to be IN Christ...that is He is the vine and we are the branches as He states I certainly do not want legalism and I guess maybe you are stating that IN Him we have life...out side of that we can become self righteous and legalistic Would that be it? I think our way of expressing our self is quite different but maybe we are in agreement with this one? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnD Posted September 24, 2012 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 0 Topic Count: 908 Topics Per Day: 0.19 Content Count: 9,653 Content Per Day: 2.02 Reputation: 5,837 Days Won: 9 Joined: 04/07/2011 Status: Offline Share Posted September 24, 2012 Please go to this will help with any questions concerning. God bless Indeed, check out this link. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fez Posted September 24, 2012 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 683 Topics Per Day: 0.12 Content Count: 11,128 Content Per Day: 2.00 Reputation: 1,352 Days Won: 54 Joined: 02/03/2009 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/07/1952 Share Posted September 24, 2012 I agree with the fact that one can backslide, repent, and live for God. But is that the same as having God live in one? OK, well I guess it is the expressions being used that are throwing me off? I mean you are restored to God if and when you repent and the Holy Spirit indwells you (in fact He was very grieved when you backslid) and yes, God, by His Spirit is in that person Many, many Christians live for God. But that is not what He wants of us. He wants us to live in Christ, and He in us. In a way, living for Him can lead to legalism and being oppressed by the law. Living with Him in us leads to the freedom that Grace affords. Honestly I am not quite sure I get the difference you are stating? Sorry to drag it on..but... I agree we have to be IN Christ...that is He is the vine and we are the branches as He states I certainly do not want legalism and I guess maybe you are stating that IN Him we have life...out side of that we can become self righteous and legalistic Would that be it? I think our way of expressing our self is quite different but maybe we are in agreement with this one? Yes we are in agreement here. One thing that concerns me, not on Worthy, because it is hard to establish, but in my "real" life, is the fact that I know people who live "for" God, but do not have Him indwelling. A good example is a person I know who plays in the worship team at church. He is besotted with music and plays very well, and has a wonderful voice. To a person who does not know him well, he looks like the epitome of a spirit filled believer. And yet, knowing him as well as I do, I know he worships the music more than he does the source. He is "working for" God, but is he saved. I cannot say for sure, that is God's sole domain, but do I have my doubts? Yes. That is the difference I see between living "for" God, or living with Him "in" us. Did I explain myself a little better? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joi Posted September 24, 2012 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 506 Topics Per Day: 0.11 Content Count: 1,922 Content Per Day: 0.41 Reputation: 173 Days Won: 4 Joined: 06/12/2011 Status: Offline Share Posted September 24, 2012 Ever hear of grieving and quenching the Holy Spirit? This is what happens when we sin. If I sin - no! when I sin, I do not lose my salvation. 1 John 1:9 says if I confess my sin I am forgiven. God then removes that sin as far from me as the east is from the west. Then I am right back in fellowship with Him. No loss of salvation there. I say this because I once attended a church that taught loss of salvation. The book of Hebrews was written to - you guessed it - the Hebrews. Many had accepted Jesus and were on the verge of returning to Judaism, thereby rejecting Christ. They were being warned that to return to Judaism was not acceptable. IF I were to lose my salvation for any reason, Christ would have to die again in order for me to be re-saved and that can not happen - He died once for all. So if we were ever saved we are still saved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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