Sevenseas Posted November 28, 2012 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 30 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,373 Content Per Day: 0.76 Reputation: 683 Days Won: 22 Joined: 02/28/2012 Status: Offline Share Posted November 28, 2012 say what now? LOL!...no time soon unless God grants my next request for "Please take me home" which I do make from time to time like that whistler reversal....do you suppose it is whistler's smiley? about the truth: I think they still sell Bibles don't they? I had no choice loved one.. I like to tease everyone! I am so thankful God chose me to know Him!!! Private interpretation = special dispensation = everybody but me is wrong as the strict interpretation would be your post= your 'ME'. However I knew what you meant but being the literalist I was held to hermeneutics of your writ but seriously was underneath... it amazes me those who hold to a twilight zone doctrine that is unique as the mermaid thread .... Lou lou wasn't just the fat girl on hee haw... it is also the twin engine of how to get there fast without starting! Maybe Love, Steven No worries...I saw that .. that teasing thing has got me in trouble at times....I was just foolin and someone took it serious so I am trying to be more serious... except with you of course.....my husband occasionally does not realize I am being tongue in cheek either....just no appreciation for subtle humor, what? I guess you could call me a literal surrealist .....for a literalist, you sure do put some surreal things up LOL! Like the whistling smilies..... Cannot compare with Lou Lou cause I don't know know?!? Twilight Zone I know....well, fortunately not first hand Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enoob57 Posted November 28, 2012 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 35 Topic Count: 100 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 41,178 Content Per Day: 7.98 Reputation: 21,451 Days Won: 76 Joined: 03/13/2010 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/27/1957 Share Posted November 28, 2012 say what now? LOL!...no time soon unless God grants my next request for "Please take me home" which I do make from time to time like that whistler reversal....do you suppose it is whistler's smiley? about the truth: I think they still sell Bibles don't they? I had no choice loved one.. I like to tease everyone! I am so thankful God chose me to know Him!!! Private interpretation = special dispensation = everybody but me is wrong as the strict interpretation would be your post= your 'ME'. However I knew what you meant but being the literalist I was held to hermeneutics of your writ but seriously was underneath... it amazes me those who hold to a twilight zone doctrine that is unique as the mermaid thread .... Lou lou wasn't just the fat girl on hee haw... it is also the twin engine of how to get there fast without starting! Maybe Love, Steven No worries...I saw that .. that teasing thing has got me in trouble at times....I was just foolin and someone took it serious so I am trying to be more serious... except with you of course.....my husband occasionally does not realize I am being tongue in cheek either....just no appreciation for subtle humor, what? I guess you could call me a literal surrealist .....for a literalist, you sure do put some surreal things up LOL! Like the whistling smilies..... Cannot compare with Lou Lou cause I don't know know?!? Twilight Zone I know....well, fortunately not first hand One cannot be to careful with family Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sevenseas Posted November 28, 2012 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 30 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,373 Content Per Day: 0.76 Reputation: 683 Days Won: 22 Joined: 02/28/2012 Status: Offline Share Posted November 28, 2012 We have VERY different backgrounds ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enoob57 Posted November 28, 2012 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 35 Topic Count: 100 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 41,178 Content Per Day: 7.98 Reputation: 21,451 Days Won: 76 Joined: 03/13/2010 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/27/1957 Share Posted November 28, 2012 We have VERY different backgrounds ! The infinite repose... I am of the opinion that for as many people that have existed even the one aspect of the emotion joy shall be sensed in slightly different way as no two things are exactly alike... so also the understandings of things... also without exhaustion of experience or magnitude of truth within. When I say to someone aren't you glad well their conveyance of yes may not be the same understanding as mine as glad could be undetermined difference of the two states of me and you! Weird I know but I am suspect that the infinite is unique to us all and the value is God's joy over His Work and awesomeness of design! We are settled in the finite but I am still suspect of this reality... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sevenseas Posted November 28, 2012 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 30 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,373 Content Per Day: 0.76 Reputation: 683 Days Won: 22 Joined: 02/28/2012 Status: Offline Share Posted November 28, 2012 I won't say no to all of that, but I also think that is why we have scripture and one truth. Observation depends on the one observing and I am sure I don't have to tell you that if you collect 10 witnesses at an accident scene, there may be no agreement among them as to what actually happened. The only thing that can be agreed upon is the static result (as long as the reporters do not become involved) of the victim in the hospital with a chart. I really do not put any faith in all these interpretations. Would the Holy Spirit argue against Himself ? That's just a common sense question but I guess when you have spent half a life time or several years or months arriving at your conclusion, the only validity you can ascribe it, is your own (at times hotly) debated opinion I do not see how one person can assume such a position of authority on what another person, just as human, decries as false, misled, and uneducated. It's all just a little silly from where I sit and I wonder that eggs and overripe fruit are not used as missiles of authenticity when words fail But I may be waxing too philosophical and definitely not quite on target. Perhaps I could get status as the resident critic LOL! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enoob57 Posted November 29, 2012 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 35 Topic Count: 100 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 41,178 Content Per Day: 7.98 Reputation: 21,451 Days Won: 76 Joined: 03/13/2010 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/27/1957 Share Posted November 29, 2012 I won't say no to all of that, but I also think that is why we have scripture and one truth. Observation depends on the one observing and I am sure I don't have to tell you that if you collect 10 witnesses at an accident scene, there may be no agreement among them as to what actually happened. The only thing that can be agreed upon is the static result (as long as the reporters do not become involved) of the victim in the hospital with a chart. Yes I see the Word of God as a tether and a beacon... a tether for me as a prone to wonder child and a beacon to the ones that will to respond. There have been many times in my exploration of His Word that I have felt the cord tighten and hold me back from continuing (Praise God!) and sense it as His Hand of grip upon my life! This I believe experientially as the Work of The Holy Spirit as He bears witness of His presence within -a very personal witness of relationship resting wholly upon His Word! I really do not put any faith in all these interpretations. Would the Holy Spirit argue against Himself ? That's just a common sense question but I guess when you have spent half a life time or several years or months arriving at your conclusion, the only validity you can ascribe it, is your own (at times hotly) debated opinion In this area of life for me I cry out to The Lord with this response: Father in and of myself I am but dirt but within 'IS' You The Holy Spirit and the New Me and as I experience this reality I appear to myself very frail and weak and even inept to make decisions as I have no faith in myself apart from You within! As I am in constant reduction- His enlargement 'IS' inevitable and I become a witness of His Presence within as those around me also the same... The central point to all of Life is to just give Glory to Whom Glory 'IS' due and that can only be done by obedience formed from love in His Word... I do not do to receive but to allow that which 'IS' unbounded flow out from my benefit to next as that pictured in Revelation Flowing from the Throne of God... The surreal aspect is basic literal extending out of our ability to comprehend thus literally fulfilling the reality of God in our very presence Job 9:10-12 10 He does great things past finding out, Yes, wonders without number. 11 If He goes by me, I do not see Him; If He moves past, I do not perceive Him; 12 If He takes away, who can hinder Him? Who can say to Him, 'What are You doing?' NKJV I do not see how one person can assume such a position of authority on what another person, just as human, decries as false, misled, and uneducated. It's all just a little silly from where I sit and I wonder that eggs and overripe fruit are not used as missiles of authenticity when words fail But I may be waxing too philosophical and definitely not quite on target. Perhaps I could get status as the resident critic LOL! I to hate the false interpretation of The Who of God and it is a frightening thing for we do not know if they are just a child of His in carnal sin of pride or satan pimps stuffing lies into the crowd... Love, Steven Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sevenseas Posted November 30, 2012 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 30 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,373 Content Per Day: 0.76 Reputation: 683 Days Won: 22 Joined: 02/28/2012 Status: Offline Share Posted November 30, 2012 I to hate the false interpretation of The Who of God and it is a frightening thing for we do not know if they are just a child of His in carnal sin of pride or satan pimps stuffing lies into the crowd... Love, Steven Either way, it's dangerous! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bold Believer Posted November 30, 2012 Group: Royal Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 121 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 1,931 Content Per Day: 0.35 Reputation: 126 Days Won: 8 Joined: 01/22/2009 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/13/1955 Share Posted November 30, 2012 The spiritually dead come back to life when they accept Christ as their Savior Correct, but we're speaking of the day when the body is reunited with the spirit. AllofGrace, Revelation 20 specifically states that the first resurrection applies to those who did not receive the mark of the beast. Since that is something that occurred in Roman times (since it refers to receiving Caesar as God rather than Jesus), it has no meaning to us. The event has occurred for them. They reigned alongside Christ. Since there are no physical human bodies in heaven, I'm led to believe that this was for the martyrs a raising of their spirits to where Christ is: at the right hand of the Father. Other deceased believers, while they most definitely are present with the Lord, did not have the special status of reigning with him during the thousand years (millennium if you prefer). Technically speaking, resurrection is a status as well as a literal bringing to life of the body. The word anastasis which is the primary word used for resurrection in the New Testament. Those who are resurrected are allowed to stand up in the presence of the King. It is something awarded to them BY the king. You may relate that to the early NT saints but I do not believe that John is relating it to them. In context with what is before and after John is talking about the 7 years tribulation of the last times and these are the saints that did not take the mark of the beast. When do you believe the 7 years of tribulation will take place? Will the anti-Christ sit on the throne and declare himself to be God. The 144,000 of the 12 tribes of Israel and the two witnesses of God during that time which leads into the 1000 years reign. It says of these saints they loved not their lives even unto death and they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb and the word of their testimony, these are the ones I see there before the throne and whose bodies will be raised to go into the 1000 years reign on earth. I do not see your connection in context with the book of Revelation's. Sorry I'm answering these so late: 1. Regarding the alleged 7 years of tribulation, there is no such thing. There are 70 weeks of years (Daniel 9:22-28) or what in Hebrew is called a 'seven'. The last of these sevens was during the life of Christ. Jesus died in the midst of the week, making sacrifice and oblation no longer viable. (His blood is greater than that of bulls and goats.) This left 3.5 years remaining and during those years, the Holy Spirit empowered the Church and began to minister. There are two other 1260 day periods mentioned, but not in Daniel 9. One of those periods is the "Little Horn" persecution of Daniel 7. An evil man comes along and persecutes (and the text says 'wears out') the saints. We know this man to be Nero. The Neronian persecution lasted 3.5 years and nearly killed off the Church. The other 3.5 years was the First Jewish war, which culminated in the destruction of Jerusalem. Daniel does mention this event in Ch 9, but not in the context of a seven. So then, the tribulation has occurred, finding its fulfillment in the events leading up to the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD. 2. Ahh, the antichrist. Never has so much been made of so little. I challenge you to look up the word antichrist in Scripture and get back to me. See what you find. You might be surprised. 3. The 144,000 (12K from each tribe of Israel) is not literal. It is reference to all of the faithful Believing Israelites. 144,000 is a perfect number. 12 x 12 x 1000. (There were way more than 144,000 faithful Israelites.) 4. The reference of not loving their lives even unto death refers to refusing to believe that Caesar was Lord. That was the demand of believers, to admit that Caesar was Lord. The response of the faithful was: Jesus is Lord. It applies to the Jewish and Gentile Believers who went through the Neronian persecution. They are the martyrs mentioned in Rev 20. They gained the honor of reigning with Jesus during the 1000 years. The question may come up: Why them and not all of the other Believers who've died for Christ? That you will have to ask God when you see Him. I have no honest answer, but I do have a conjecture: They were the first to die for Jesus, and God is honoring that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enoob57 Posted November 30, 2012 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 35 Topic Count: 100 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 41,178 Content Per Day: 7.98 Reputation: 21,451 Days Won: 76 Joined: 03/13/2010 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/27/1957 Share Posted November 30, 2012 The spiritually dead come back to life when they accept Christ as their Savior Correct, but we're speaking of the day when the body is reunited with the spirit. AllofGrace, Revelation 20 specifically states that the first resurrection applies to those who did not receive the mark of the beast. Since that is something that occurred in Roman times (since it refers to receiving Caesar as God rather than Jesus), it has no meaning to us. The event has occurred for them. They reigned alongside Christ. Since there are no physical human bodies in heaven, I'm led to believe that this was for the martyrs a raising of their spirits to where Christ is: at the right hand of the Father. Other deceased believers, while they most definitely are present with the Lord, did not have the special status of reigning with him during the thousand years (millennium if you prefer). Technically speaking, resurrection is a status as well as a literal bringing to life of the body. The word anastasis which is the primary word used for resurrection in the New Testament. Those who are resurrected are allowed to stand up in the presence of the King. It is something awarded to them BY the king. You may relate that to the early NT saints but I do not believe that John is relating it to them. In context with what is before and after John is talking about the 7 years tribulation of the last times and these are the saints that did not take the mark of the beast. When do you believe the 7 years of tribulation will take place? Will the anti-Christ sit on the throne and declare himself to be God. The 144,000 of the 12 tribes of Israel and the two witnesses of God during that time which leads into the 1000 years reign. It says of these saints they loved not their lives even unto death and they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb and the word of their testimony, these are the ones I see there before the throne and whose bodies will be raised to go into the 1000 years reign on earth. I do not see your connection in context with the book of Revelation's. Sorry I'm answering these so late: 1. Regarding the alleged 7 years of tribulation, there is no such thing. There are 70 weeks of years (Daniel 9:22-28) or what in Hebrew is called a 'seven'. The last of these sevens was during the life of Christ. Jesus died in the midst of the week, making sacrifice and oblation no longer viable. (His blood is greater than that of bulls and goats.) This left 3.5 years remaining and during those years, the Holy Spirit empowered the Church and began to minister. There are two other 1260 day periods mentioned, but not in Daniel 9. One of those periods is the "Little Horn" persecution of Daniel 7. An evil man comes along and persecutes (and the text says 'wears out') the saints. We know this man to be Nero. The Neronian persecution lasted 3.5 years and nearly killed off the Church. The other 3.5 years was the First Jewish war, which culminated in the destruction of Jerusalem. Daniel does mention this event in Ch 9, but not in the context of a seven. So then, the tribulation has occurred, finding its fulfillment in the events leading up to the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD. 2. Ahh, the antichrist. Never has so much been made of so little. I challenge you to look up the word antichrist in Scripture and get back to me. See what you find. You might be surprised. 3. The 144,000 (12K from each tribe of Israel) is not literal. It is reference to all of the faithful Believing Israelites. 144,000 is a perfect number. 12 x 12 x 1000. (There were way more than 144,000 faithful Israelites.) 4. The reference of not loving their lives even unto death refers to refusing to believe that Caesar was Lord. That was the demand of believers, to admit that Caesar was Lord. The response of the faithful was: Jesus is Lord. It applies to the Jewish and Gentile Believers who went through the Neronian persecution. They are the martyrs mentioned in Rev 20. They gained the honor of reigning with Jesus during the 1000 years. The question may come up: Why them and not all of the other Believers who've died for Christ? That you will have to ask God when you see Him. I have no honest answer, but I do have a conjecture: They were the first to die for Jesus, and God is honoring that. My personal draw on preterism is that of unfounded within Scripture. Just the basic need to twist much of Scripture out of joint to fit one little phrase "this generation" which was fulfilled in John the disciple taken into end times to pen The Revelation of Jesus Christ... My goodness history doesn't even work with it... as were seeing now moving to a one world government of ungodly proportions! Here is some really good work on the subject! http://www.reformedonline.com/view/reformedonline/PreterismRapture.htm Love, Steven Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bold Believer Posted November 30, 2012 Group: Royal Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 121 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 1,931 Content Per Day: 0.35 Reputation: 126 Days Won: 8 Joined: 01/22/2009 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/13/1955 Share Posted November 30, 2012 The spiritually dead come back to life when they accept Christ as their Savior Correct, but we're speaking of the day when the body is reunited with the spirit. AllofGrace, Revelation 20 specifically states that the first resurrection applies to those who did not receive the mark of the beast. Since that is something that occurred in Roman times (since it refers to receiving Caesar as God rather than Jesus), it has no meaning to us. The event has occurred for them. They reigned alongside Christ. Since there are no physical human bodies in heaven, I'm led to believe that this was for the martyrs a raising of their spirits to where Christ is: at the right hand of the Father. Other deceased believers, while they most definitely are present with the Lord, did not have the special status of reigning with him during the thousand years (millennium if you prefer). Technically speaking, resurrection is a status as well as a literal bringing to life of the body. The word anastasis which is the primary word used for resurrection in the New Testament. Those who are resurrected are allowed to stand up in the presence of the King. It is something awarded to them BY the king. You may relate that to the early NT saints but I do not believe that John is relating it to them. In context with what is before and after John is talking about the 7 years tribulation of the last times and these are the saints that did not take the mark of the beast. When do you believe the 7 years of tribulation will take place? Will the anti-Christ sit on the throne and declare himself to be God. The 144,000 of the 12 tribes of Israel and the two witnesses of God during that time which leads into the 1000 years reign. It says of these saints they loved not their lives even unto death and they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb and the word of their testimony, these are the ones I see there before the throne and whose bodies will be raised to go into the 1000 years reign on earth. I do not see your connection in context with the book of Revelation's. Sorry I'm answering these so late: 1. Regarding the alleged 7 years of tribulation, there is no such thing. There are 70 weeks of years (Daniel 9:22-28) or what in Hebrew is called a 'seven'. The last of these sevens was during the life of Christ. Jesus died in the midst of the week, making sacrifice and oblation no longer viable. (His blood is greater than that of bulls and goats.) This left 3.5 years remaining and during those years, the Holy Spirit empowered the Church and began to minister. There are two other 1260 day periods mentioned, but not in Daniel 9. One of those periods is the "Little Horn" persecution of Daniel 7. An evil man comes along and persecutes (and the text says 'wears out') the saints. We know this man to be Nero. The Neronian persecution lasted 3.5 years and nearly killed off the Church. The other 3.5 years was the First Jewish war, which culminated in the destruction of Jerusalem. Daniel does mention this event in Ch 9, but not in the context of a seven. So then, the tribulation has occurred, finding its fulfillment in the events leading up to the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD. 2. Ahh, the antichrist. Never has so much been made of so little. I challenge you to look up the word antichrist in Scripture and get back to me. See what you find. You might be surprised. 3. The 144,000 (12K from each tribe of Israel) is not literal. It is reference to all of the faithful Believing Israelites. 144,000 is a perfect number. 12 x 12 x 1000. (There were way more than 144,000 faithful Israelites.) 4. The reference of not loving their lives even unto death refers to refusing to believe that Caesar was Lord. That was the demand of believers, to admit that Caesar was Lord. The response of the faithful was: Jesus is Lord. It applies to the Jewish and Gentile Believers who went through the Neronian persecution. They are the martyrs mentioned in Rev 20. They gained the honor of reigning with Jesus during the 1000 years. The question may come up: Why them and not all of the other Believers who've died for Christ? That you will have to ask God when you see Him. I have no honest answer, but I do have a conjecture: They were the first to die for Jesus, and God is honoring that. My personal draw on preterism is that of unfounded within Scripture. Just the basic need to twist much of Scripture out of joint to fit one little phrase "this generation" which was fulfilled in John the disciple taken into end times to pen The Revelation of Jesus Christ... My goodness history doesn't even work with it... as were seeing now moving to a one world government of ungodly proportions! Here is some really good work on the subject! http://www.reformedo...rismRapture.htm Love, Steven A preterist though would believe that AD 70 was the parousia. I don't. From the site you mentioned: "Third, once again it is important that we distinguish between partial preterists who are orthodox Christians and full preterists who are heretics that should be excommunicated if they don’t repent. All Christians are partial preterists to some degree, in that they recognize that some New Testament predictions have already taken place. Today people who are associated with partial preterism usually teach that Matthew 24, at least up to verse 34, was fulfilled when Jesus came in judgment upon Jerusalem in A.D. 66-70 and destroyed the Temple. Also, many parts of Revelation are seen as already fulfilled. Some popular modern partial preterist authors are Milton Terry, R.C. Sproul, Greg Bahnsen, Ken Gentry Jr. and Gary Demar. Although there are a number of differences among partial preterists regarding certain passages and especially how to approach the book of Revelation, all partial preterist writers are careful to make a distinction between our Lord’s judgment of Israel and the final, bodily coming of Christ. Thus, the orthodox interpretation of the second coming, general resurrection, rapture and final judgment is maintained." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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