Guest shiloh357 Posted December 9, 2012 Share Posted December 9, 2012 see entropy...? Emotion cannot be taken out of our makeup it is to be controled is all! I saw entropy, but that does not answer the question, it makes me guess what you mean. A simple yes or no makes things much clearer. Do you include plants in your view of "no death before the fall"? No, because plants, fruits, vegitables, nuts, seeds, grass, etc. were given to man and the animals as food. They were intended to be a resources created for the benefit of creatures which posssess, "nephesh chayim" (breath of life). Plants and animals have biological "life" but are not "living creatures" in that they do not have brains, souls, breath, a central nervous system. So they do not "die" in the same sense that we speak of living creatures that die such as man and animals. The Hebrew word for death is "emet" and I don't recall it ever being used to describe plants or any kind of vegitiation. We use the word "die" in non-literal ways and one of those ways is how we describe a plant or tree that has withered and dried up. But don't find the Bible using that term to describe a plant that that withered or has dried up and no longer produces fruit. Having said that, every in the earth, the hydrosphere, the lithosphere, the atmosphere, and all biological life is in a constant state of decay. Plants decay, flesh decays and the earth is in a state of decay. Scientists tell us the sun in a state of decay and is eventually going to turn into a white dwarf start in a few more billion years, if the Lord tarries. This state of decay is the result of sin. We, probably don't know the half of the damaging effects sin has had on our world and the universe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tinky Posted December 9, 2012 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 200 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 1,602 Content Per Day: 0.30 Reputation: 291 Days Won: 8 Joined: 10/24/2009 Status: Offline Birthday: 01/01/1986 Author Share Posted December 9, 2012 Then the angel showed me the river of the water of life, bright as crystal, flowing from the throne of God and of the Lamb 2 through the middle of the street of the city; also, on either side of the river, the tree of life with its twelve kinds of fruit, yielding its fruit each month. The leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations which nations were being healed in the Garden? Guess the name Tree of "LIFE" threw you off? So, once the earth was full, which would not have taken long at all with no death, would God had then turned off the reproduction ability of all creatures? Yes. Just as after the Millennium, there will be no more reproduction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enoob57 Posted December 9, 2012 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 35 Topic Count: 100 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 41,194 Content Per Day: 7.98 Reputation: 21,471 Days Won: 76 Joined: 03/13/2010 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/27/1957 Share Posted December 9, 2012 So the T-rex was eating berries and plants. I'm sorry but that is comical. no more than than the lion my friend! Isa 11:7 7 The cow and the bear shall graze; Their young ones shall lie down together; And the lion shall eat straw like the ox. NKJV Love, Steven Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted December 9, 2012 Share Posted December 9, 2012 Rev 21 starts with this verse...Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and the sea was no more The Bible does not talk of a "renewed" earth, or a "reest" earth, it speaks of a new earth. This leads me to belive it will be different than what was this earth. Where does the Bible say the earth will go back to the pre-fall days? The Greek word kainos, as used here, refers to new in character not new in tme. It carries the connotation of a refreshing or renovation. Both Greek and Hebrew are more nuanced than our English and those nuances often don't come through. Being new in character is supported by the destription of that character, no more pain, no more tears, no more death, etc. But more to the point, the main issue is that we are restored back to God and we will be restored sinless. That this is going back to pre-fall days is demonstrated in the fact that the relationship between God and man are finally and fully restored in every area. The redemptive and restorative agenda of God is fully realized. There will no more sin and no more death according to the text. God didn't create death before and He doesn't create it in the New Heavens and New Earth. The New Heavens and New Earth are a picture of life without sin, which also excludes death. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted December 9, 2012 Share Posted December 9, 2012 Guess the name Tree of "LIFE" threw you off? you didnt answer the question. Let me try again. I asked why the Tree of Life was needed if Adam was immortal. If Adam was immortal, then why would God say that he would die from eating from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil? If he was already subject to death, then why would it matter if he ate from the tree or not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted December 9, 2012 Share Posted December 9, 2012 If Adam was immortal, then why would God say that he would die from eating from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil? If he was already subject to death, then why would it matter if he ate from the tree or not? unless of course the death God was speaking of was spiritual death, which since he did not die physically the day he ate from the tree, seems to be the case. The problem with that is that physical death is part of what we are redeemed from. If death were engineered into creation then physical death would not be part of what we are promised to be redeemed from. Physical death is the outworking of sin in the physical body. So even if you argue that God was ONLY talking about spiritual death, you still have the damaging effects of sin that are seen in our physical bodies, such as sickness, disease, and physical death. Physical death ultimately results from sin. God did not engineer death into the creative order and man would not have died spiritually and thus not died physically had the relationship with God not been broken in the Garden. Furthermore "savllvation" in the Greek carries five primary connotations: Restoration, preservation, deliverance, security and healing. All of five of those each impact both the natural and spiritual realms and all five are part of the full realization of God's redemptive and restorative agenda. In redemption, God works from the inside out. We have been given the gift of eternal life and we have the Holy Spirit within us who is the guarantee of our inheritance. The redemption of our physical bodies will make them as eternal as our spirits are. At some point in the future, our bodies will be raised incorruptable and indestructable and we will no longer be subject to death, spiritually or physically. The eradication of sin, will restore us back to our previous sinless state. It really is that simple. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tinky Posted December 9, 2012 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 200 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 1,602 Content Per Day: 0.30 Reputation: 291 Days Won: 8 Joined: 10/24/2009 Status: Offline Birthday: 01/01/1986 Author Share Posted December 9, 2012 Quote Yes. Just as after the Millennium, there will be no more reproduction. Is this in the Bible as well? Yes. Jesus said that in the Kingdom there is no marriage, and no one will be given in marriage (Matthew 22:30). Since sex is allowable only in marriage, there will be no more reproduction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted December 9, 2012 Share Posted December 9, 2012 Quote Yes. Just as after the Millennium, there will be no more reproduction. Is this in the Bible as well? Yes. Jesus said that in the Kingdom there is no marriage, and no one will be given in marriage (Matthew 22:30). Since sex is allowable only in marriage, there will be no more reproduction. Thanks. what about the animals? The Bible is silent about the reproductive activities of animals. And It is best to be silent where the Bible is silent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bold Believer Posted December 11, 2012 Group: Royal Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 121 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 1,931 Content Per Day: 0.35 Reputation: 126 Days Won: 8 Joined: 01/22/2009 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/13/1955 Share Posted December 11, 2012 So the T-rex was eating berries and plants. I'm sorry but that is comical. if I pull a carrot out of the ground and eat it, I killed it...right? NO, it was meant specifically for food. Man and animals before sin entered the world ate of the earth's bounty according to Genesis. Yes, even the T-Rex ate herbs. Sin brought death into the cosmos. Before Adam's disobedience brought sin into the world, nothing died. Death occurs AS A RESULT OF SIN. No sin, no death. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tinky Posted December 11, 2012 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 200 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 1,602 Content Per Day: 0.30 Reputation: 291 Days Won: 8 Joined: 10/24/2009 Status: Offline Birthday: 01/01/1986 Author Share Posted December 11, 2012 Quote Yes. Just as after the Millennium, there will be no more reproduction. Is this in the Bible as well? Yes. Jesus said that in the Kingdom there is no marriage, and no one will be given in marriage (Matthew 22:30). Since sex is allowable only in marriage, there will be no more reproduction. Thanks. what about the animals? It is my personal belief that once the earth is as full as God wants it to be, there will be an end to animal reproduction as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts