Do you have a brain?

[Jayyycuuup]

It is truly inspiring how this nutty professor loses the argument in this made up dialogue. No doubt: if all people would inform themselves about evolution by reading imagined dialogues instead of biology textbooks, its acceptance would drop considerably.

How else would the course of discussion go? For instance, if you were that professor, what would you say in place of what was stated? He is considered "nutty" because the course of discussion was not in his favor? Being outwitted and left dumbfounded. . . Yes it is a made up dialogue, but instead of focusing on this, how about the arguments presented within it? I echo Neb, asking what you think about this:

"Sir, you are working on the premise of duality. You argue there is life and then there is death, a good GOD and a bad GOD. You are viewing the concept of GOD as something finite, something we can measure. Sir, Science can’t even explain a thought. It uses electricity and magnetism, but has never seen, much less fully understood either one. To view death as the opposite of life is to be ignorant of the fact that death cannot exist as a substantive thing."

The same "argument" you present about evolution. . . If people would take away from their self, read their bible, and pray would they be CONVINCED that God does truly exist.

Taking your statement a bit further, if someone considered the dialogue with an open mind, and researched the arguments presented I think they would be inspired. I would go into the "evolutionary" aspect, but that is a course for a different discussion. The OP is for enlightenment.

God bless you and look forward to your response.

[hippias]

It is truly inspiring how this nutty professor loses the argument in this made up dialogue. No doubt: if all people would inform themselves about evolution by reading imagined dialogues instead of biology textbooks, its acceptance would drop considerably.

For the ecord, evolution wasn't the argument. Rather it was the existence of God.

Sir, you are working on the premise of duality. You argue there is life and then there is death, a good GOD and a bad GOD. You are viewing the concept of GOD as something finite, something we can measure. Sir, Science can’t even explain a thought. It uses electricity and magnetism, but has never seen, much less fully understood either one. To view death as the opposite of life is to be ignorant of the fact that death cannot exist as a substantive thing.

What do you have to say with regards to this?

Oh, I am sure that such a witty student wouldn't mention evolution for nothing! I liked best how the witty student showed the absurdity of the nutty professor's scientific method by asking if anyone has ever seen the professor's brain. How the crowd cheered! Everyone knows: when a crowd cheers there is no mistake possible any longer - the cheer decides it. Thus there is absolutely no way imaginable to find out whether a particular person has a brain or not. Super.

As for your question: It is true that science can't explain everything, maybe even nothing. Nor does anyone have to acknowledge science. IMO this has nothing to do with Christianity in particular.

[Jayyycuuup]

I'm all distracted by the contents of the board on the image.

By the way, the line of reasoning this mock dialogue contains involves factual errors and sloppy reasoning. I have to agree with hippias here. The fact is, we do observe evolution happening and no one educated in biology would think we 'came from monkeys'. It's not that I think there isn't some merit in this, i.e. we can't observe thoughts and there is an interesting question there, but any interesting and promising lines of inquiry are obscured by the rest. I also find it problematic to pit unnamed 'professor' against a student and have the professor lose so easily. That gives people the wrong impression, one that I see played out when people assume that all this stuff is really just made up and very easy to deflate so there's no need to expend real mental sweat in taking this stuff on. It's not easy. IT's actually incredibly tough.

Hey Sean,

Could you by chance elaborate on your thinking? I agreed in what I read, but find it interesting as to what is nonfactual and sloppy.

I observe God working in my life and those around me, my observations are conclusive to me but not to those around me. As much as I am convinced, this does not convince someone else. My point in this analogy is there seems to be something I am missing. The evolutionary timeline shows a monkey, then a human at the end. The course is said to have been enough time to evolve (hence evolutionary process) into what we are today. It is to my understanding that is is still an upbeat argument.

As for the dialogue itself. I think the course of discussion is around GOD, instead of trying to demean professors. I think one of the most promising illustrations is the absence of something. Lets take for instance white and black, they are not considered a "color." But why? White is the presence of all colors, Black is the absence of light. (Overview, way more complicated lol) Tying this back into the OP, I tend to think of the unsaved or mislead as the color black. The absence of light, of God, of Truth etc.

(sorry, got distraced and lost my train of thought. . . had a good closing statement, but I guess this message will be my closing statement! lol)

God bless you!

[GoldenEagle]

Thank you for re-sharing this Fez! Was a wonderful and very thought provoking read.

God bless you!

I agree. Amen! X 2

[Jayyycuuup]

Hey Jacob,

Well the evolutionary tree is more about branching out than some specific ladder. So for instance that common image of a monkey on all fours, and then an ape sort of walking upright, then a neanderthal looking figure, then a modern human (hopefully you know what I am referring to) is misleading. Nowadays it's all about the tree of life and phylogenetics. Specifically here, modern monkeys and modern humans share a common, now extinct, ancestor. Monkeys are just as 'evolved' as we are.

The other thing I find misleading about the dialogue is the suggestion that we can only really know about stuff that we can access with 5 senses. If not, then we have to have faith. I don't think this is at all true. Most of science deals with inductive inferences involving stuff we could never hope to directly see. I'm sure that electrons exist. That's not something I have to have faith in, I know multiple lines of argument to support that supposition. Likewise inferring that the professor has a brain doesn't take any faith, it's a reasonable inference to make. I think the issue of knowing about God, believing things via faith, and the way we typically know/believe stuff is more complicated than the dialogue leads you to believe.

What you were talking about is what i was also lol, so yes, I do know what your talking about. As for what your saying. . . it seems as if they went from one theory to the next, my question to you is how long until this is flawed and scientists move on to a new theory? Don't get me wrong, some of the things within this theory are correct, for instance natural selection etc. But the key point that irks me that they leave out is God. They think that is a viable argument against God, but in my eyes it's pro God. It shows and aligns just the exactness and perfection it took to align such organisms, strands etc.

Actually I have to agree with that statement. It is only a "truth" if it's within our senses. Otherwise it is a belief. As for what your saying about electrons. . . .that is assurance and hence still a belief. If i asked you to prove it you could give me a whole bunch of, they must exist! And I would say WOW! I am assured that God exists not only by the conviction in Him, but also He must exist!

Interesting Sean. . . . but I think that same thing is applied to God. For example. We have inference of brains due to (a) they must exist (b) documentation © experiments, i.e. cutting open the human scalp and seeing.

Someone posted something and I agree 100%, it says "the world says God show me and I will believe, But no My friend, God says believe and I will show you." ( ) And I think there is so much truth there. Applying this to the speculation about the brain. . . .(a) First, God must exist for we know something cannot come from nothing. Looking out upon the earth there is so much that needs the "God did it" otherwise it would have no base, for there is no such thing as a "coincidence" (b) We have a book to follow that gives us documentation about whom God is, who His son is and why we need Him. To bring flavor and life to our meaningless lives. Via process of faith and belief, acknowledge and believe in your heart. (John 3:16) © You seek God out, you "cut" open your faith and say LORD here I am! You carefully seek Him out with all of you and you will find Him! This I promise you Sean. I still remember my first encounter with God and believe me there is no other feeling like it. There is no doubt in my mind that you will not find Him.

(Sorry about my crummy analogies lol, all I have)

God bless you Bud!

[Guest]

I'm all distracted by the contents of the board on the image.

By the way, the line of reasoning this mock dialogue contains involves factual errors and sloppy reasoning. I have to agree with hippias here. The fact is, we do observe evolution happening and no one educated in biology would think we 'came from monkeys'. I don't want to get into a debate about evolution here, but just point out something that a well educated IDer would know. It's not that I think there isn't some merit in this, i.e. we can't observe thoughts and there is an interesting question there, but any interesting and promising lines of inquiry are obscured by the rest. I also find it problematic to pit unnamed 'professor' against a student and have the professor lose so easily. That gives people the wrong impression, one that I see played out when people assume that all this stuff is really just made up and very easy to deflate so there's no need to expend real mental sweat in taking this stuff on. It's not easy. It's actually incredibly tough.

My point is this. If you want to attack an enemy it's better to be *well* prepared and not underestimate them rather than construct a knock down caricature.

You Do Know One Can Usually Only Observe Classical Evolutionary Mythology In Action

In The Saturday Morning Kid's Caricatures Cartoons

Or Early Evening On PBS

And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ: Ephesians 3:9

And It Is My Experience That One Will Only Continue To Believe This Pagan Mockery

Woe unto them that seek deep to hide their counsel from the LORD, and their works are in the dark, and they say, Who seeth us? and who knoweth us? Surely your turning of things upside down shall be esteemed as the potter's clay: for shall the work say of him that made it, He made me not? or shall the thing framed say of him that framed it, He had no understanding? Isaiah 29:15-16

If One Finely Rejects The Christ

For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: And he is before all things, and by him all things consist. Colossians 1:16-17

Of The Bible

That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.

He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.

He came unto his own, and his own received him not. But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth. John 1:9-14

~

Do You

Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God. 2 Corinthians 5:20

Know

See now that I, even I, am he, and there is no god with me: I kill, and I make alive; I wound, and I heal: neither is there any that can deliver out of my hand. For I lift up my hand to heaven, and say, I live for ever.

If I whet my glittering sword, and mine hand take hold on judgment; I will render vengeance to mine enemies, and will reward them that hate me. I will make mine arrows drunk with blood, and my sword shall devour flesh; and that with the blood of the slain and of the captives, from the beginning of revenges upon the enemy.

Rejoice, O ye nations, with his people: for he will avenge the blood of his servants, and will render vengeance to his adversaries, and will be merciful unto his land, and to his people. Deuteronomy 32:39-43

Jesus?

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God.

All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. John 1:1-3

Better Yet

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. John 3:16-18

Does Jesus Know You?

Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:

And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock.

And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand:

And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it. Matthew 7:21-27

[Jayyycuuup]

Sean,

I understand what your talking about, but that is only one example. Do you not agree that there are insances where science has to drop a theory and change it due to is validity?

Well Sean, if you don't disagree with me then what is keeping you from ultimately seeking God out? Is it trust? You don't think you will find what your looking for? Since your a scientist and you observe theory's do you not assess every aspect? Every detail must be discovered and observed otherwise the work you have concluded is not 100% valid.

What I am searching for here Sean is a drive. The bible says draw near to God and He will draw near to you. . . and I am convinced that this is absolutely true! Give a little get a little. The bible is Whom God is, what He does etc. The actions He takes and the faithfulness in the Bible is and can also be applied to your life. This leads to faith, the same faith and convictions they felt you can also take part in! I urge you Sean, to take upon something that your wondering. . . .hold this into concordance with the Bible, to seek it out with all your Heart, your mind, and your Soul. . . because I know the God I serve and I know the faithfulness He has and which is found in Him. . .that is why I can confidently present you with this, because God keeps all His promises! There is no one like our God!

[Guest]

No Implacation

Woe unto him that striveth with his Maker! Let the potsherd strive with the potsherds of the earth. Shall the clay say to him that fashioneth it, What makest thou? or thy work, He hath no hands? Isaiah 45:9

What So Ever

I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom;

Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.

For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;

And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables. 2 Timothy 4:1-4

~

I mean, evolution could have still happened and the universe, and life, suggest the need for intelligent design, the sort the Bible implies God engages in.

Not

And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ: Ephesians 3:9

Hardly Likely

Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them. And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made. And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made. Genesis 2:1-3

See?

For what if some did not believe? shall their unbelief make the faith of God without effect? God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged. Romans 3:3-4

Hum....

Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Genesis 3:1(a-c)

~

The Jesus Of The Evolutionary Mythos Is Anti-Christ

But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept. For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead. For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. 1 Corinthians 15:20-22

To The Creator Christ Of The Holy Bible

For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself; And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man.

Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation. John 5:26-29

The Question Is, Which Christ

There is a way that seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death. Proverbs 16:25

Will You Follow

Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life. John 6:47

Hum

As it is written, Behold, I lay in Sion a stumblingstone and rock of offence: and whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed. Romans 9:35

[Jayyycuuup]

Sean,

I understand what your talking about, but that is only one example. Do you not agree that there are insances where science has to drop a theory and change it due to is validity?

Well Sean, if you don't disagree with me then what is keeping you from ultimately seeking God out? Is it trust? You don't think you will find what your looking for? Since your a scientist and you observe theory's do you not assess every aspect? Every detail must be discovered and observed otherwise the work you have concluded is not 100% valid.

What I am searching for here Sean is a drive. The bible says draw near to God and He will draw near to you. . . and I am convinced that this is absolutely true! Give a little get a little. The bible is Whom God is, what He does etc. The actions He takes and the faithfulness in the Bible is and can also be applied to your life. This leads to faith, the same faith and convictions they felt you can also take part in! I urge you Sean, to take upon something that your wondering. . . .hold this into concordance with the Bible, to seek it out with all your Heart, your mind, and your Soul. . . because I know the God I serve and I know the faithfulness He has and which is found in Him. . .that is why I can confidently present you with this, because God keeps all His promises! There is no one like our God!

Well absolutely that is so Jacob, but that's not typically true of extremely well tested theories that have lots of empirical evidence to support them. For instance, the theory of aether had to be thrown out because it was discovered that the empirical evidence didn't support it. Lots of people accepted it because they thought that the existence of electromagnetic entailed that there had to be some medium that they were waving on. But, they never had direct evidence to support it. On the other hand, we have lots of confirmation of Newton's laws within a particular range of accuracy. And yeah, nothing is held with absolute certainty, but that really doesn't bother me. I'm okay with the possibility of being wrong, and still asserting that something is true.

If I totally lacked drive or concern about this issue I wouldn't be here posting about it. I'll say that much. I'd wash my hands of it and be done.

Well Sean, that brings us to my point. What do you have to lose? You say you cannot take that "leap" of faith for you need substantiate evidence, but in your very work it appears that you have that faithfulness. . . . so why cannot this be applied to your faith? I can go on for days about what you have to gain, true life true meaning etc. I am by no means thinking you lack drive or any thing of the likes Sean. I understand that it took alot to initially write this, its not an easy thing to put yourself out there. My prayers and hopes is that you have the motivation to give into the LORD and seek Him out. That you find rest within your own mind and find peace in these inquiries.

[sourberry]

But regardless of what God sent us here for, when it's completed we die. So in the above dialogue, the reason God let the person with Cancer die, is because that person completed the reason he was sent here.

I so much tend to agree with you on this.

Our life is long enough for getting a verdict. Some times it lasts only minutes, and some times it lasts many many years.