stevehut Posted November 2, 2004 Group: Royal Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 26 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 3,216 Content Per Day: 0.44 Reputation: 43 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/24/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 05/16/1962 Share Posted November 2, 2004 How are we to view this in light of what our Lord spoke, " In the temple he found those who where selling oxen, sheep, and pigeons, and the moneychangers at their business. ... And he told those who sold ... , 'Take these things away ; you shall not make my Father's house a house of trade.' " (John 2:14-16) ? A little historical perspective might be helpful here. The selling of merchandise in the temple was not forbidden. Many people were visiting Jerusalem at the time, and needed to make their regular sacrifices. Since it's not practical to bring along your fatted calf on all of your travels, it was permissible to purchase an item to be sacrificed. The vendors were serving a legitimate need. But their zeal for commerce got out of control, and that's why Jesus rebuked them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trinity Posted November 2, 2004 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 92 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 2,244 Content Per Day: 0.31 Reputation: 63 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/30/2004 Status: Offline Share Posted November 2, 2004 yup you are right Steve The reason why Jesus rebuked them is because the sellers were making so much of a profit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Thomas I believe Posted November 2, 2004 Share Posted November 2, 2004 (edited) My church sells tapes but for no profit... Just to cover the cost of the tape... I don't thing 75 cense is a lot of money to cover the cost of tape, the only reason why we have to ask for 75 cense is because so many people want the tape and it gets to much money for the church just to cover its own cost and give it free. Trinity , I agree a church would need to cover cost of materials for items as tapes etc. If a church did not recover at least the cost in any size church it could create hardship on other ministries within the church that need funds to operate. In His Peace, Michael Edited November 2, 2004 by Thomas I beleive Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ReadtheWord Posted November 2, 2004 Share Posted November 2, 2004 How are we to view this in light of what our Lord spoke, " In the temple he found those who where selling oxen, sheep, and pigeons, and the moneychangers at their business. ... And he told those who sold ... , 'Take these things away ; you shall not make my Father's house a house of trade.' " (John 2:14-16) ? A little historical perspective might be helpful here. The selling of merchandise in the temple was not forbidden. Many people were visiting Jerusalem at the time, and needed to make their regular sacrifices. Since it's not practical to bring along your fatted calf on all of your travels, it was permissible to purchase an item to be sacrificed. The vendors were serving a legitimate need. But their zeal for commerce got out of control, and that's why Jesus rebuked them. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Yes you right the selling of Merchandise was not wrong but it was were they was selling that got the rebuke from Jesus. You see no Gentile could enter any part of the temple except the court of the Gentiles. You see God plan for Isreal was to be a light unto to rest of the nations that the God of Isreal was the true God. So Jesus when said my House shall be call a house of prayer for the nations he was talking about the court of the gentiles. God wanted the gentile to seek him out but how can they do that in the middle of market place. JUst as the Jews prevent the Gentiles from seeking God by turning the Court into a market place so today do many churches prevents many from the Gospel by turning the Church into a market place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomwindsor Posted November 3, 2004 Group: Members Followers: 0 Topic Count: 5 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 17 Content Per Day: 0.00 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 11/02/2004 Status: Offline Author Share Posted November 3, 2004 (edited) How are we to view this in light of what our Lord spoke, " In the temple he found those who where selling oxen, sheep, and pigeons, and the moneychangers at their business. ... And he told those who sold ... , 'Take these things away ; you shall not make my Father's house a house of trade.' " (John 2:14-16) ? A little historical perspective might be helpful here. The selling of merchandise in the temple was not forbidden. Many people were visiting Jerusalem at the time, and needed to make their regular sacrifices. Since it's not practical to bring along your fatted calf on all of your travels, it was permissible to purchase an item to be sacrificed. The vendors were serving a legitimate need. But their zeal for commerce got out of control, and that's why Jesus rebuked them. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Steve , What is the basis of your statement ? Was not the issue trade itself . for that's what the Lord said it was , not profiteering as you and the others have suggested . Also, nowhere in the Old testament did the Lord say that trade was permitted in his Temple . Please consider , Tom Edited November 3, 2004 by tomwindsor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomwindsor Posted November 7, 2004 Group: Members Followers: 0 Topic Count: 5 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 17 Content Per Day: 0.00 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 11/02/2004 Status: Offline Author Share Posted November 7, 2004 My church sells tapes but for no profit... Just to cover the cost of the tape... I don't thing 75 cense is a lot of money to cover the cost of tape, the only reason why we have to ask for 75 cense is because so many people want the tape and it gets to much money for the church just to cover its own cost and give it free. Trinity , I agree a church would need to cover cost of materials for items as tapes etc. If a church did not recover at least the cost in any size church it could create hardship on other ministries within the church that need funds to operate. In His Peace, Michael <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Greetings , Here is a brief addendum to objections that Ive recieved from the many posts relating to "Trading in the house of the Lord?" ( on this site and others ) First , No ministry "has to " resort to the merchandize method , as God has promised to provide when we in faith and love "give expecting nothing in return" . If they "couldnt survive ", maybe God never intended for them to be serving in that way . There are ministries that function without charging for books ,tapes ,etc. Second , The church was never intended to funtion as a business. You Will Not find that pattern in the New Testament ,and parchments , and travel was expensive in those days . Yes we can all work for a salary to earn a living , but that is fundamentaly different from serving in love and spreading the gospel , which should not be based on a transaction of money . We change the Foundational basis and nature of love when we bring that in . There is a major difference between the mutual giving of gifts and merchandizing . Our Lord gave warnings for those who alter his plan . I hope that this can be recieved , as I believe eternal rewards are at stake , In Christs Love, Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gypc Posted November 7, 2004 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 24 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 972 Content Per Day: 0.13 Reputation: 13 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/15/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/07/1964 Share Posted November 7, 2004 Infomercials is what I see on tv churches. I hear people says things like "God told me to build this new building" then in the next breath they say "I can't build it if I don't get your money" whatever.............Did God tell them to build or not? Twenty minute sermons, then right when the bulk of the message is almost spoken, they cut to the infomercial part and say "God told me to tell you that you need this message and for a love gift of $50. or more, it can be yours" All I gotta say about that is Go ahead on!!!!!!!!!!!! However, I see nothing wrong with asking for donations but they should say that if ya don't have the money, we'll send it anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fr Chuck Posted November 7, 2004 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 1 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 149 Content Per Day: 0.02 Reputation: 1 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/01/2004 Status: Offline Share Posted November 7, 2004 I have always been upset with the large profit made on so many of these items. A DVD that can be copied for under $1.00 and sells for 30 dollars has always been issues. Our church tries hard to offer everything etiher at actual cost, or free. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jesussaves Posted November 8, 2004 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 210 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 1,144 Content Per Day: 0.15 Reputation: 11 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/14/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted November 8, 2004 I often wonder if we are making the word of God of none effect by making all kinds of reasons to buy and sell in the house of the Lord. No matter how we slice or dice it the Lord commanded us not to make His house a house of merchandise. We never find Him showing His anger, righteous anger, anywhere else in the Gospels. "...make not My Father's house a house of merchandise." John 2:16 Sounds like a commandment to me. I have had to repent of joining in the buying and selling in the house of the Lord myself. It is hard when we have made it such a tradition. Seems like we need to put a little extra in the offering each Sunday to help support those who need it. We should stop worrying about the money the Evangelist is getting and just reach out and help support them when they share their need with us, if they are of God. We are allowing the sale of goods in the Church so much that it has gone from the foyer to the pulpit. Personally, it makes me want to cry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomwindsor Posted November 9, 2004 Group: Members Followers: 0 Topic Count: 5 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 17 Content Per Day: 0.00 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 11/02/2004 Status: Offline Author Share Posted November 9, 2004 I often wonder if we are making the word of God of none effect by making all kinds of reasons to buy and sell in the house of the Lord. No matter how we slice or dice it the Lord commanded us not to make His house a house of merchandise. We never find Him showing His anger, righteous anger, anywhere else in the Gospels. "...make not My Father's house a house of merchandise." John 2:16 Sounds like a commandment to me. I have had to repent of joining in the buying and selling in the house of the Lord myself. It is hard when we have made it such a tradition. Seems like we need to put a little extra in the offering each Sunday to help support those who need it. We should stop worrying about the money the Evangelist is getting and just reach out and help support them when they share their need with us, if they are of God. We are allowing the sale of goods in the Church so much that it has gone from the foyer to the pulpit. Personally, it makes me want to cry. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Greetings in the name of our Lord , As Im starting my day , your words have refreshed my spirit . I agree we have to be more supportive of those serving. Concerning your last statement , I believe Gods Spirit is grieved also . "O Jerusalem , Jerusalem ".... May Gods grace be with you , For the kingdom, Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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