Sevenseas Posted February 12, 2013 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 30 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,373 Content Per Day: 0.75 Reputation: 683 Days Won: 22 Joined: 02/28/2012 Status: Offline Share Posted February 12, 2013 Actually I think Job did pretty good when he questioned God...after all, God most certainly answered him and then restored everything to him and Job knew a whole lot more then he did before he asked anything. We also have the picture of Jacob wrestling with the angel of the Lord....that, was instigated by God it seems...isn't intense questioning and wanting answers a form of wrestling? How about...I will not let you go unless you bless me...now that is BOLD! how about that? That night Jacob got up and took his two wives, his two maidservants and his eleven sons and crossed the ford of the Jabbok. 23After he had sent them across the stream, he sent over all his possessions. 24So Jacob was left alone, and a man wrestled with him till daybreak. 25When the man saw that he could not overpower him, he touched the socket of Jacob’s hip so that his hip was wrenched as he wrestled with the man. 26Then the man said, “Let me go, for it is daybreak.” But Jacob replied, “I will not let you go unless you bless me.” 27The man asked him, “What is your name?” “Jacob,” he answered. 28Then the man said, “Your name will no longer be Jacob, but Israel,e because you have struggled with God and with men and have overcome.” Genesis 32 What kind of relationship do YOU have with God? Does He challenge you to participate in a wrestling match with Him until you know Him better? (not addressed to anyone specific) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tinky Posted February 12, 2013 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 200 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 1,602 Content Per Day: 0.30 Reputation: 291 Days Won: 8 Joined: 10/24/2009 Status: Offline Birthday: 01/01/1986 Share Posted February 12, 2013 Actually I think Job did pretty good when he questioned God... “Moreover the LORD answered Job, and said, ‘Shall he that contendeth with the Almighty instruct Him? he that reproveth God, let him answer it.’ Then Job answered the LORD, and said, ‘Behold, I am vile; what shall I answer Thee? I will lay mine hand upon my mouth. Once have I spoken; but I will not answer: yea, twice; but I will proceed no further.” Job 40:1-5 (KJV) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sevenseas Posted February 12, 2013 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 30 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,373 Content Per Day: 0.75 Reputation: 683 Days Won: 22 Joined: 02/28/2012 Status: Offline Share Posted February 12, 2013 Did God answer Job? Yes He did...and in the end, Job was completely restored. You have to look at the whole picture Job is a pretty big book with lots in it Does God sometimes say no? That's an answer too! If you never ask God anything, I guess no answer is expected Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tinky Posted February 12, 2013 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 200 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 1,602 Content Per Day: 0.30 Reputation: 291 Days Won: 8 Joined: 10/24/2009 Status: Offline Birthday: 01/01/1986 Share Posted February 12, 2013 Did God answer Job? Yes He did...and in the end, Job was completely restored. You have to look at the whole picture Job is a pretty big book with lots in it Does God sometimes say no? That's an answer too! If you never ask God anything, I guess no answer is expected When you question God, you are in fact, questioning whether He knows best, or has your best interests in mind. If you are a child of God, it makes no sense to question His motives for anything. Yes, Job was restored, after he finally had the presence of mind to realize questioning God was wrong. "Shall not the judge of all the earth do right?" (Genesis 18:25) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mcgyver Posted February 12, 2013 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 4 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 321 Content Per Day: 0.05 Reputation: 80 Days Won: 2 Joined: 11/28/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/03/1957 Share Posted February 12, 2013 Is it proper for a believer to challenge or question God? What if we were to have a discussion of a Psalm where the writer challenges God or is skeptical of him... And we were to end our post with how the author closes the matter. What is your favorite Psalm applicable to this question? God bless, GE (IMO) I don't think it is "acceptable" to question God, to me, it is a lack of trust. If you knew the direction God had for you, and FULLY trusted Him in every aspect of your life, then why would you ask why, or when. Why did this happen, or when will this end, how long will you keep in silence etc. Apart of this "abandonment" is patience, and that is a very hard thing to cope with, having it in His will and not in ours can be quite devastating to cope with, and takes a lot of trust in Him. Like I said earlier, I don't think it can really be avoided, no matter how strong your faith is, the "why" is just something we think we need to know. <snip> Perhaps there is a difference between asking God questions and questioning His authority? The first is okay. The second is not proper? Thoughts? God bless, GE It's interesting that nobody has brought up Gideon... So Gideon said to God, “If You will save Israel by my hand as You have said— look, I shall put a fleece of wool on the threshing floor; if there is dew on the fleece only, and it is dry on all the ground, then I shall know that You will save Israel by my hand, as You have said.” And it was so. When he rose early the next morning and squeezed the fleece together, he wrung the dew out of the fleece, a bowlful of water. Then Gideon said to God, “Do not be angry with me, but let me speak just once more: Let me test, I pray, just once more with the fleece; let it now be dry only on the fleece, but on all the ground let there be dew.” And God did so that night. It was dry on the fleece only, but there was dew on all the ground. Judges 6:36-40 Seems to me that here Gideon is not questioning WHO God is, but rather is trying to determine whether it is truly God who has spoken to him...Certainly he is questioning God as to God's will...not once, but twice. Maybe that's the difference. As I look through the scriptures, it seems that one who is earnestly seeking God's will gets an answer, whereas the skeptic who questions God in an irreverent fashion gets no answer at all, or (as in the case of Nebuchadnezzar) ends up eating grass for 7 years. Gideon did not question God's authority...whereas Nebuchadnezzar certainly did! I honestly believe that God, who knows our hearts understands when we question the "why" something happens...or even the "Is this truly your will?" type of question. Paul asked three times that a "thorn in the flesh" would be taken...and God did not get angry with him...but gave him that wonderful answer: "My grace is sufficient for you". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sevenseas Posted February 12, 2013 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 30 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,373 Content Per Day: 0.75 Reputation: 683 Days Won: 22 Joined: 02/28/2012 Status: Offline Share Posted February 12, 2013 Did God answer Job? Yes He did...and in the end, Job was completely restored. You have to look at the whole picture Job is a pretty big book with lots in it Does God sometimes say no? That's an answer too! If you never ask God anything, I guess no answer is expected When you question God, you are in fact, questioning whether He knows best, or has your best interests in mind. If you are a child of God, it makes no sense to question His motives for anything. Yes, Job was restored, after he finally had the presence of mind to realize questioning God was wrong. "Shall not the judge of all the earth do right?" (Genesis 18:25) I really do not see it that way at all. You had nothing to say about Jacob wrestling the angel...what this represents is people getting hold of God and not letting go. I don't find one can really get hold of God unless they have wrestled with Him themself and that really needs questions. Is there a verse or passage in scripture that tells us not to question God? Seriously we cannot ask why? or how? Relationships go both ways and that includes with God. You just mention Job and yet Job is an extreme example....you may feel that questioning God shows a lack of faith, but I have found that if anything, it has increased my faith because God answers...He even answered Job. "Shall not the judge of all the earth do right?" (Genesis 18:25) You seem to think that questionning God means that in some way a person believes God is wrong. Is that what the verse says that you have quoted above? No...not at all...you are simply choosing that verse for a point you wish to make God even addresses the problem of sin like this: "Come now, let us reason together," says the LORD. "Though your sins are like scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they are red as crimson, they shall be like wool. Isaiah 1:18...you know, God does not say dothis or that or else...He says...let's reason together...of course we know God should be obeyed...but I see nowhere in scripture that He discourages asking questions or wondering about things. I think those types of things shut down communication if anything Incidentally, I don't frown upon anyone who does not want to ask God any questions...however, I do not think it wise to tell others they have no right to sit down and have a good talk with God... including the questions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoldenEagle Posted February 12, 2013 Group: Royal Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 764 Topics Per Day: 0.18 Content Count: 7,626 Content Per Day: 1.79 Reputation: 1,559 Days Won: 44 Joined: 10/03/2012 Status: Offline Author Share Posted February 12, 2013 Incidentally, I don't frown upon anyone who does not want to ask God any questions...however, I do not think it wise to tell others they have no right to sit down and have a good talk with God... including the questions We are all free in Christ to ask God questions. Questions are still a part of communication. Bottom line: The issue with questioning God is MY heart issue. Sometimes God needs to remind ME Who He is and What He is about - His glory and reconciling people to Himself by adopting them into His family. My questions often times lead to answers - His answers/promises that ultimately lead to putting my faith and trust in God. God is so merciful to this fallen, rebellious, prideful sinner. I thank Him for His love. Perhaps I'm over-simplifying things here? Thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sevenseas Posted February 12, 2013 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 30 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,373 Content Per Day: 0.75 Reputation: 683 Days Won: 22 Joined: 02/28/2012 Status: Offline Share Posted February 12, 2013 No...I agree there GE....how do you see the wrestling of Jacob with the angel (of the Lord) and some believe it was the Lord......... do you think there can be a comparison there? I believe there is....I think it is natural to question and sometimes to struggle very hard The issue is the heart and the truth and the desire to understand I think Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoldenEagle Posted February 12, 2013 Group: Royal Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 764 Topics Per Day: 0.18 Content Count: 7,626 Content Per Day: 1.79 Reputation: 1,559 Days Won: 44 Joined: 10/03/2012 Status: Offline Author Share Posted February 12, 2013 No...I agree there GE....how do you see the wrestling of Jacob with the angel (of the Lord) and some believe it was the Lord......... do you think there can be a comparison there? I believe there is....I think it is natural to question and sometimes to struggle very hard The issue is the heart and the truth and the desire to understand I think Is this the passage you're referencing? Gen. 32:22-32 Wrestling with God 22 And he arose that night and took his two wives, his two female servants, and his eleven sons, and crossed over the ford of Jabbok. 23 He took them, sent them over the brook, and sent over what he had. 24 Then Jacob was left alone; and a Man wrestled with him until the breaking of day. 25 Now when He saw that He did not prevail against him, He touched the socket of his hip; and the socket of Jacob’s hip was out of joint as He wrestled with him. 26 And He said, “Let Me go, for the day breaks.” But he said, “I will not let You go unless You bless me!” 27 So He said to him, “What is your name?” He said, “Jacob.” 28 And He said, “Your name shall no longer be called Jacob, but Israel;[b] for you have struggled with God and with men, and have prevailed.” 29 Then Jacob asked, saying, “Tell me Your name, I pray.” And He said, “Why is it that you ask about My name?” And He blessed him there. 30 So Jacob called the name of the place Peniel:[c] “For I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved.” 31 Just as he crossed over Penuel[d] the sun rose on him, and he limped on his hip. 32 Therefore to this day the children of Israel do not eat the muscle that shrank, which is on the hip socket, because He touched the socket of Jacob’s hip in the muscle that shrank. Also right at the end of of Jacob's life... Gen. 35:9-12 9 Then God appeared to Jacob again, when he came from Padan Aram, and blessed him. 10 And God said to him, “Your name is Jacob; your name shall not be called Jacob anymore, but Israel shall be your name.” So He called his name Israel. 11 Also God said to him: “I am God Almighty. Be fruitful and multiply; a nation and a company of nations shall proceed from you, and kings shall come from your body. 12 The land which I gave Abraham and Isaac I give to you; and to your descendants after you I give this land.” I agree the issue is the heart (our attitude), seeking God's truth (as found in God's Word - The Bible), and His understanding (comes from discernment as the Holy Spirit of God lives and teaches us). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoldenEagle Posted February 12, 2013 Group: Royal Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 764 Topics Per Day: 0.18 Content Count: 7,626 Content Per Day: 1.79 Reputation: 1,559 Days Won: 44 Joined: 10/03/2012 Status: Offline Author Share Posted February 12, 2013 To add to the discussion: Let's not forget too that in the instances of Jacob, Gideon, and Job none had the Holy Spirit living in them as we do today as Christ-followers. Just an observation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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