gdemoss Posted February 19, 2013 Group: Royal Member Followers: 8 Topic Count: 59 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 4,402 Content Per Day: 0.98 Reputation: 2,154 Days Won: 28 Joined: 02/10/2012 Status: Offline Birthday: 04/26/1971 Share Posted February 19, 2013 We are not under the Law at all! Romans 6:14 says we "are NOT under the Law, but under grace." And that Christ ABOLISHED the Law with ALL of it's ordinances on the cross, (Ephesians 2:15) and that for those who believe, Jesus is the END of the Law. ALL of it was nailed to the cross! (Colossians 2:14). There is a new law. 1Cr 9:21 To them that are without law, as without law, (being not without law to God, but under the law to Christ,) that I might gain them that are without law. Therefore there can be a lawless one who will be destroyed. 2Th 2:8 And then shall that Wicked (lawless one in the NIV) be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming: Obedience always deals with law. We are under law to Christ and must obey him through the Spirit. In doing so, we happen to keep much of the law from the OT by default but not as it were by the works of the law but through obedience unto Christ and the law of Christ. "If we are led by the Spirit, we are not under the Law." (Galatians 5:18) Agreed. Not under the law of Moses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jie Posted February 23, 2013 Group: Members Followers: 0 Topic Count: 0 Topics Per Day: 0 Content Count: 21 Content Per Day: 0.01 Reputation: 2 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/22/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted February 23, 2013 (edited) Jesus says: "Go all you into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature, whom obeys and is baptized will be saved, but whom not obeys will be condemned. When once waited the God of longsuffering in days of Noah preparing the ark, in being few, that being eight lives were saved by water: then a before type, now baptism saves us, not a putting off of rank skin, but a good conscience up-praying up to God through resurrection of Jesus Christ." Mk.16:15,16+ I Pt.3:20,21. Edited February 23, 2013 by Jie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ninhao Posted February 23, 2013 Share Posted February 23, 2013 Jesus says: "Go all you into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature, whom obeys and is baptized will be saved, but whom not obeys will be condemned. When once waited the God of longsuffering in days of Noah preparing the ark, in being few, that being eight lives were saved by water: then a before type, now baptism saves us, not a putting off of rank skin, but a good conscience up-praying up to God through resurrection of Jesus Christ." Mk.16:15,16+ I Pt.3:20,21. Hello Jie, The baptism that saves us mentioned in 1 Peter 3:21 seems to be akin to the baptism Paul speaks of in Romans 6:3. Rom 6:3 KJV Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? This baptism is the spiritual death of the old nature and rebirth with the new akin to the resurrection of Lord Jesus may be forever blessed. Rom 6:4-6 KJV Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. (5) For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection: (6) Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. We are not physically buried or literally crucified. This baptism is spiritual and the water baptism is a symbol of this it seems. The baptism into Christ, which saves us, is surely followed by the symbolic death and resurrection in water. imo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jie Posted February 23, 2013 Group: Members Followers: 0 Topic Count: 0 Topics Per Day: 0 Content Count: 21 Content Per Day: 0.01 Reputation: 2 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/22/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted February 23, 2013 Jesus says: "Go all you into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature, whom obeys and is baptized will be saved, but whom not obeys will be condemned. When once waited the God of longsuffering in days of Noah preparing the ark, in being few, that being eight lives were saved by water: then a before type, now baptism saves us, not a putting off of rank skin, but a good conscience up-praying up to God through resurrection of Jesus Christ." Mk.16:15,16+ I Pt.3:20,21. Hello Jie, The baptism that saves us mentioned in 1 Peter 3:21 seems to be akin to the baptism Paul speaks of in Romans 6:3. Rom 6:3 KJV Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? This baptism is the spiritual death of the old nature and rebirth with the new akin to the resurrection of Lord Jesus may be forever blessed. Rom 6:4-6 KJV Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. (5) For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection: (6) Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. We are not physically buried or literally crucified. This baptism is spiritual and the water baptism is a symbol of this it seems. The baptism into Christ, which saves us, is surely followed by the symbolic death and resurrection in water. imo Baptism is God’s supernatural doing. It is God’s commandment, for which if rejected then there is no heaven. The Lord himself came down to us to show us the way of righteousness, and he himself, our Lord, got baptized in order to fulfill all righteousness. God forbid that anybody try to diminish such a divine work as God’s commandment of baptism. Matthew 28:19. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ninhao Posted February 23, 2013 Share Posted February 23, 2013 Baptism is God’s supernatural doing. It is God’s commandment, for which if rejected then there is no heaven. The Lord himself came down to us to show us the way of righteousness, and he himself, our Lord, got baptized in order to fulfill all righteousness. God forbid that anybody try to diminish such a divine work as God’s commandment of baptism. Matthew 28:19. Yes the baptism into Christ is God's supernatural doing. We cannot save ourselves as Noah found. Can you tell me why Jesus baptism "fulfilled all righteousness" ? It is my impression that this episode was to show Jesus was the one John had been foretelling would come. Mat 3:3 KJV For this is he that was spoken of by the prophet Esaias, saying, The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make his paths straight. Jesus obviously had no need for repentance nor baptism into His Kingdom. If Jesus meant water baptism was a salvational issue I am wondering why He did not baptise anyone Himself and why He allowed the thief upon the cross an exemption. can you explain? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jie Posted February 23, 2013 Group: Members Followers: 0 Topic Count: 0 Topics Per Day: 0 Content Count: 21 Content Per Day: 0.01 Reputation: 2 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/22/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted February 23, 2013 (edited) Baptism is God’s supernatural doing. It is God’s commandment, for which if rejected then there is no heaven. The Lord himself came down to us to show us the way of righteousness, and he himself, our Lord, got baptized in order to fulfill all righteousness. God forbid that anybody try to diminish such a divine work as God’s commandment of baptism. Matthew 28:19. Yes the baptism into Christ is God's supernatural doing. We cannot save ourselves as Noah found. Can you tell me why Jesus baptism "fulfilled all righteousness" ? It is my impression that this episode was to show Jesus was the one John had been foretelling would come. Mat 3:3 KJV For this is he that was spoken of by the prophet Esaias, saying, The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make his paths straight. Jesus obviously had no need for repentance nor baptism into His Kingdom. If Jesus meant water baptism was a salvational issue I am wondering why He did not baptise anyone Himself and why He allowed the thief upon the cross an exemption. can you explain? Yes, the Almighty has put on flesh and became as one of us in order to personally show us the way of righteousness. He showed us how to have Passover communion, he showed us how to pray, he showed us how to live a clean and holy life, he showed us how to love our enemies, he showed us how to get baptized, and he showed us how to share the good news of repentance which brings us salvation. So the Lord over all, personally demonstrated that baptism is a commandment that we must do, just as if Noah refused to build the Ark, then he would have perished in the flood with all the rest of the sinners in the world. It could be that people whom are in a world which has much water wrongly equates water to being unimportant for salvation. But this is where faith comes in, when we obey the Lord and get baptized God uses the water "He" made in order to produce his salvation. I recall how he can turn common water into the best aged wine in an instant. So I am not surprised that he can use water to bring a person into his grace. What a blessed thing it is to follow the Lord Iesous in everything. Is not our Lord the best in all the world, which he has created? Edited February 23, 2013 by Jie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gdemoss Posted February 23, 2013 Group: Royal Member Followers: 8 Topic Count: 59 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 4,402 Content Per Day: 0.98 Reputation: 2,154 Days Won: 28 Joined: 02/10/2012 Status: Offline Birthday: 04/26/1971 Share Posted February 23, 2013 Following on the heals of the discussion. Jhn 13:15 For I have given you an example, that ye should do as I have done to you. Jesus did give us examples to follow. If he did it we ought to in the same manner follow his example through faith in him. Mat 3:14-15 But John forbad him, saying, I have need to be baptized of thee, and comest thou to me? And Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer [it to be so] now: for thus it becometh us to fulfil all righteousness. Then he suffered him. Jesus had a water baptism. So should we do likewise, in faith. The 'in faith' is important to understand as we are saved by grace through faith which faith is evidenced by works such as water baptism following our Lords lead. When we come into the courtroom on the day of judgment, the evidence of faith or unbelief will be presented and the final verdict made. Life or death. And just like any other court appearance for trial, the one on trial merely needs the evidence necessary to prove his innocence in the matter. There will be those there who have not had a water baptism that are given life as well as those whose lack of a water baptism will be used against them as an act of unbelief. It simply is not cut and dry. Just obey and be baptized in the name given unto us by God to be baptized in and fulfill your obedience unto God so that the evidence of your faith in his word will stand without opposition in that day and do not deter others from baptism through preaching that it isn't necessary to be done. For it is better that a millstone be hung about your neck than you cause one to offend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sevenseas Posted February 23, 2013 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 30 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,373 Content Per Day: 0.76 Reputation: 683 Days Won: 22 Joined: 02/28/2012 Status: Offline Share Posted February 23, 2013 It follows we should be baptized...how about those who refuse to be baptized in the Holy Spirit? Are they less saved? Anyone here making baptism by water a prerequisite for salvation? If you are not (for some reason) baptized in water yet have repented of your sins and accepted Jesus as Lord, are you saved or not saved? What about baptism by fire? Things are going to get murky if we add to scripture or confuse what is plain by putting our own personal emphasis on what the bible actually does not say Just when you think the troubled waters of a thread are calm through the application of the Word, comes the storm again and the wind of a little extra something blows afresh...how poetic that sounds I get ear a tated when I read or hear special english from those purporting to speak on God's behalf...but the sun is shining...at the moment....and all the rivers still flow into the sea so there yuh go I kind of like Ancient of Days so basically I do not see where the Ancient of Days in all of His Wisdom and Perfection has stated through His Son or His Spirit that baptism is part two of Believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and be saved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoldenEagle Posted February 23, 2013 Group: Royal Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 764 Topics Per Day: 0.18 Content Count: 7,626 Content Per Day: 1.80 Reputation: 1,559 Days Won: 44 Joined: 10/03/2012 Status: Offline Share Posted February 23, 2013 Baptism is God’s supernatural doing. It is God’s commandment, for which if rejected then there is no heaven. The Lord himself came down to us to show us the way of righteousness, and he himself, our Lord, got baptized in order to fulfill all righteousness. God forbid that anybody try to diminish such a divine work as God’s commandment of baptism. Matthew 28:19. Yes the baptism into Christ is God's supernatural doing. We cannot save ourselves as Noah found. Can you tell me why Jesus baptism "fulfilled all righteousness" ? It is my impression that this episode was to show Jesus was the one John had been foretelling would come. Mat 3:3 KJV For this is he that was spoken of by the prophet Esaias, saying, The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make his paths straight. Jesus obviously had no need for repentance nor baptism into His Kingdom. If Jesus meant water baptism was a salvational issue I am wondering why He did not baptise anyone Himself and why He allowed the thief upon the cross an exemption. can you explain? Yes, the Almighty has put on flesh and became as one of us in order to personally show us the way of righteousness. He showed us how to have Passover communion, he showed us how to pray, he showed us how to live a clean and holy life, he showed us how to love our enemies, he showed us how to get baptized, and he showed us how to share the good news of repentance which brings us salvation. So the Lord over all, personally demonstrated that baptism is a commandment that we must do, just as if Noah refused to build the Ark, then he would have perished in the flood with all the rest of the sinners in the world. It could be that people whom are in a world which has much water wrongly equates water to being unimportant for salvation. But this is where faith comes in, when we obey the Lord and get baptized God uses the water "He" made in order to produce his salvation. I recall how he can turn common water into the best aged wine in an instant. So I am not surprised that he can use water to bring a person into his grace. What a blessed thing it is to follow the Lord Iesous in everything. Is not our Lord the best in all the world, which he has created? So I understand the thought process here... Are you saying baptism is required for salvation yes or no? God bless, GE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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