I wonder...

[2ndRateMind]

A word on debating in general.

Good debates do not, I am sure we all agree, degenerate into personal attacks. Good debates focus on the issue being discussed, not the individuals discussing that issue. Idiots, criminals, madmen, hypocrites, heathens, wastrels and children may all have their perspectives on any given issue, and it is their perspective that is relevant to the debate, not their status. I have several times been asked to justify myself personally, as opposed to logically, on this board. It should not be necessary, and I will not pander to such requests (on this thread) in future. I am not perfect, I admit. But I do know how to string together logic and ethics, and that is what is relevant to a moral debate. Let us, henceforth, eschew personal attacks (a fallacy in philosophy known as ad hominem), and settle the matter according to the quality of the arguments put, irrespective of the quality of the individual putting them.

Best wishes, eco.

Edited February 20, 2013 by ecoTramp

[Guest]

A word on debating in general.

Good debates do not, I am sure we all agree, degenerate into personal attacks. Good debates focus on the issue being discussed, not the individuals discussing that issue. Idiots, criminals, madmen, hypocrites, heathens, wastrels and children may all have their perspectives on any given issue, and it is their perspective that is relevant to the debate, not their status. I have several times been asked to justify myself on this board. It should not be necessary, and I will not pander to such requests (on this thread) in future. I am not perfect, I admit. But I do know how to string together logic and ethics, and that is what is relevant to a moral debate. Let us, henceforth, eschew personal attacks (a fallacy in philosophy known as ad hominem), and settle the matter according to the quality of the arguments put, irrespective of the quality of the individual putting them....

Focus On Jesus

Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created. Revelation 4:11

Puts All Philosophies

Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ. Colossians 2:8

To Shame

But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment. Matthew 12:36

So Believe Jesus

Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life. John 5:24

And Be Blessed Beloved

Love, Joe

[nebula]

But no, you didn't point fingers at me; however, you are pointing fingers. But remember, whenever you point a finger at someone, three are pointed back at yourself. A wise man will consider this in his judgement.

Whenever anyone focused on someone else's sin to Jesus, what did Jesus say to the person in return?

I plead 'Guilty as charged' m'lord.

But I consider this issue so vital that I am willing to take the rap, come judgement day. If this thread changes one attitude, and generates one donation, that saves one life, then it will have been worth it.

cheers, eco.

Actually, it's "m'lady" - but that's ok!

Sadly, you have chosen the less noble coarse. For you see, as long as your approach is with a drawn sword, the responses will return with drawn swords. Is that your goal?

But after reading your website, I think your true question is not why rich Christians are hypocrites but rather what will motivate rich Christians to be more giving? Is this not what you are seeking?

[Guest]

I have several times been asked to justify myself on this board. It should not be necessary, and I will not pander to such requests (on this thread) in future....

The Question

He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am? Matthew 16:15

There are two main sections to Worthy Boards, the Inner Court and the Outer Court. The Inner court is designed for fellowship and discussion among those who know Jesus Christ as Savior. The outer Court is an area where we allow anyone who wishes to learn more about our belief to ask questons and learn. Those who join Worthy who do not claim Christ as Savior will be designated "nonbeliever'. This designation will mean that they will only be able to post in the Outer Court area. They can read every part of the Forums, but their discussions will be limited to one area. http://www.worthychr...tion=boardrules

Is Not Whether You Pander

And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God. Matthew 16:16

But Whether Or Not You Believe In The Christ Of The Bible

Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created. Revelation 4:11

So Confess Him LORD And Be Blessed

That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. Romans 10:9-10

Or Not

He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him. John 3:36

Love, Joe

[Guest]

Hmmm. I agree with you both, that there are generous rich people. That is why I was careful to say I am not getting at anyone. But, in this context, what do you make of these quotes:

30 million people a year die of hunger. And 800 million suffer from chronic mulnutrition....

Food is not in short supply. In fact, food products have never been so abundant. There is enough available to provide each of the Earth's inhabitants with at least 2700 calories per day. But production alone is not enough.....

The UN calculates that the whole of the world population's basic needs for food, drinking water, education and medical care could be covered by a levy of less than 4% on the accumulated wealth of the world's 225 largest fortunes. To satisfy all the world's sanitation and food requirements would would cost only $13bn, hardly as much as the people of the United States and European Union spend on perfume....

Ignacio Ramenez, 'The Politics of Hunger', Le Monde Diplomatique, November 1998.

Best wishes, eco.

United In Rebellion

There is a generation, whose teeth are as swords, and their jaw teeth as knives, to devour the poor from off the earth, and the needy from among men. Proverbs 30:14

Against The Almighty LORD Jesus

Except the LORD build the house, they labour in vain that build it: except the LORD keep the city, the watchman waketh but in vain. Psalms 127:1

Best Regards, Joe

[Guest]

So, what is a fair share? Well, work has been done on this by environmental scientists and economists and the like. They have come up with a concept called 'the ecological footprint'. This is the amount of resources one consumes, expressed as the land area required to service it. By aggregating the total one can express the result as the number of planet earths required to sustain your lifestyle, if everyone lived as you did. You can take a short survey here, to discover your own, personal, impact on the environment. I am not going to comment on my lifestyle, other than to say it fits (just) within 1 planet earth....

Sharp Fellow

There is a generation, whose teeth are as swords, and their jaw teeth as knives, to devour the poor from off the earth, and the needy from among men. Proverbs 30:14

You Have Belled The Cat~!

Love, Joe

[joi]

Both Matthew 26:11 and Mark 14:7 tell us that we will always have the poor with us. This sounds to me as if our Lord understood

this fact and the ones that cause it to be true.

He gave much wealth to Abraham and his offspring as He did others already mentioned earlier, so it would appear that He is not

opposed to wealth, as I see it.

eco I have not read your site yet, but will do so after posting here.

Forgive me if I am wrong, but it seems when questions of this nature arise they usually come from the UK. Is there some reason

that people in the USA are seen as more self indulgent and less caring than people in other parts of the world?

We are called to give with an attitude of willingness, if we do so grudgingly there is no point in giving whether from a 'wealthy' person

or otherwise. A poor person may half his meal with another poor person and do it willingly, God judges that person's gift.

You might be surprised at how many people who post here have given offerings of one kind and another. Many help support

unemployed grown children and their grandchildren and that stretches them thin, financially speaking. Nevertheless these people

are giving with an open heart even though it is not to those poor that you seem to see.

My Bible instructs me to look after widows and orphans and there are many of those in the county in which I live.

We do not have to look very far before coming up on someone to help.

[Fez]

But no, you didn't point fingers at me; however, you are pointing fingers. But remember, whenever you point a finger at someone, three are pointed back at yourself. A wise man will consider this in his judgement.

Whenever anyone focused on someone else's sin to Jesus, what did Jesus say to the person in return?

I plead 'Guilty as charged' m'lord.

But I consider this issue so vital that I am willing to take the rap, come judgement day. If this thread changes one attitude, and generates one donation, that saves one life, then it will have been worth it.

cheers, eco.

Actually, it's "m'lady" - but that's ok!

Sadly, you have chosen the less noble coarse. For you see, as long as your approach is with a drawn sword, the responses will return with drawn swords. Is that your goal?

But after reading your website, I think your true question is not why rich Christians are hypocrites but rather what will motivate rich Christians to be more giving? Is this not what you are seeking?

[2ndRateMind]

Both Matthew 26:11 and Mark 14:7 tell us that we will always have the poor with us. This sounds to me as if our Lord understood

this fact and the ones that cause it to be true.

He gave much wealth to Abraham and his offspring as He did others already mentioned earlier, so it would appear that He is not

opposed to wealth, as I see it.

eco I have not read your site yet, but will do so after posting here.

Forgive me if I am wrong, but it seems when questions of this nature arise they usually come from the UK. Is there some reason

that people in the USA are seen as more self indulgent and less caring than people in other parts of the world?

We are called to give with an attitude of willingness, if we do so grudgingly there is no point in giving ...

Hello, Joi.

Let me preface my remarks by saying that I like Americans, and I was getting at no nationality in particular. I know Americans to be among the most generous of folks, and I respect that immensely. If we had a world without Americans, I think the world would be poorer, and I see America as (mostly) a force for international good.

I think though, that there is a difference between European and American attitudes to wealth. I put it down to the frontier mentality you guys still have. As far as you guys are concerned, there is always another forest to fell, another mine to open, another river to fish. In Europe, a considerably older culture, felling forests, or opening mines, or fishing rivers, generally means denying someone else that resource. We have a rather more dusty attitude towards wealth, because we see that wealth as being gained at the expense of others. Personally, I do not see either attitude as being wholly correct, and look forward to the day when most people have achieved a stable mentality that is something of a compromise between the two world views.

Nevertheless, America just is the richest country in the world, and when we look at the global picture, it is natural to look to America for leadership. You are the country, after all, of a million millionaires.

I would just add, with respect to the poor being always with us, that we are the first generation that has had the wherewithal to change that. The question is, do we also have the will?

Best wishes, eco.

Edited February 20, 2013 by ecoTramp

[missmuffet]

That all depends.Where is your heart?On the money or Jesus?

http://www.gotquestions.org/love-money-root-evil.html