A Philosophical Look at Hell

[Guest ninhao]

Still Waiting

But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear: 1 Peter 3:15

~

As It May Appear

But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

Matthew 4:4

Dear One Are You A Bible Mocker

Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away. Matthew 13:31

And What Part If Any Of The Holy Bible Do You (Pick And) Choose To Believe

In that hour Jesus rejoiced in spirit, and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes: even so, Father; for so it seemed good in thy sight. Luke 10:21

Hold onto you hat there cowboy.

Rom 14:4 KJV Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.

Ok be my guest

[OneLight]

A Scriptural Look at Hell ...

Since sin is brought about through false beliefs that "all is well", following a belief they were taught or derived in their own imagination, let's look at what scripture says about these teaching, be it from another or self.

2 Peter 2

But there were also false prophets among the people, even as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Lord who bought them, and bring on themselves swift destruction. And many will follow their destructive ways, because of whom the way of truth will be blasphemed. By covetousness they will exploit you with deceptive words; for a long time their judgment has not been idle, and their destruction does not slumber.

For if God did not spare the angels who sinned, but cast them down to hell and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved for judgment; and did not spare the ancient world, but saved Noah, one of eight people, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood on the world of the ungodly; and turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah into ashes, condemned them to destruction, making them an example to those who afterward would live ungodly; and delivered righteous Lot, who was oppressed by the filthy conduct of the wicked (for that righteous man, dwelling among them, tormented his righteous soul from day to day by seeing and hearing their lawless deeds)— then the Lord knows how to deliver the godly out of temptations and to reserve the unjust under punishment for the day of judgment, and especially those who walk according to the flesh in the lust of uncleanness and despise authority. They are presumptuous, self-willed. They are not afraid to speak evil of dignitaries, whereas angels, who are greater in power and might, do not bring a reviling accusation against them before the Lord.

But these, like natural brute beasts made to be caught and destroyed, speak evil of the things they do not understand, and will utterly perish in their own corruption, and will receive the wages of unrighteousness, as those who count it pleasure to carouse in the daytime. They are spots and blemishes, carousing in their own deceptions while they feast with you, having eyes full of adultery and that cannot cease from sin, enticing unstable souls. They have a heart trained in covetous practices, and are accursed children. They have forsaken the right way and gone astray, following the way of Balaam the son of Beor, who loved the wages of unrighteousness; but he was rebuked for his iniquity: a dumb donkey speaking with a man’s voice restrained the madness of the prophet.

These are wells without water, clouds carried by a tempest, for whom is reserved the blackness of darkness forever.

For when they speak great swelling words of emptiness, they allure through the lusts of the flesh, through lewdness, the ones who have actually escaped from those who live in error. While they promise them liberty, they themselves are slaves of corruption; for by whom a person is overcome, by him also he is brought into bondage. For if, after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the latter end is worse for them than the beginning. For it would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered to them. But it has happened to them according to the true proverb: “A dog returns to his own vomit,” and, “a sow, having washed, to her wallowing in the mire.”

[Guest ninhao]

Hello OneLight,

I'm pleased you posted these scriptures and they raise another question I have concerning hell and also provide another query concerning elective predestination.

2Pe 2:4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell,

What do you consider this hell is ?

(It is interesting we see Jesus also bought the false prophets ( not redeemed of course ) which is good data for another thread. )

[Guest]

Still Waiting

But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear: 1 Peter 3:15

~

As It May Appear

But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

Matthew 4:4

Dear One Are You A Bible Mocker

Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away. Matthew 13:31

And What Part If Any Of The Holy Bible Do You (Pick And) Choose To Believe

In that hour Jesus rejoiced in spirit, and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes: even so, Father; for so it seemed good in thy sight. Luke 10:21

Hold onto your hat there cowboy.

Roman 14:4 KJV Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.

OK be my guest

Why All The Wiggly Non-Answers. Are You JW?

For our exhortation was not of deceit, nor of uncleanness, nor in guile: But as we were allowed of God to be put in trust with the gospel, even so we speak; not as pleasing men, but God, which trieth our hearts. 1 Thessalonians 2:3-4

Whatever Are You Ashamed Of?

For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment; 2 Peter 2:4

Are You A Lawyer?

Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels: Matthew 25:41

Cat Got Your Tongue?

And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire: Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched. Mark 9:47-48

Have You Not Read

Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth. Now as Jannes and Jambres withstood Moses, so do these also resist the truth: men of corrupt minds, reprobate concerning the faith. But they shall proceed no further: for their folly shall be manifest unto all men, as theirs also was. 2 Timothy 3:7-9

Or Believed

Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world. Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God: And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world. They are of the world: therefore speak they of the world, and the world heareth them. 1 John 4:1-5

The Word

And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;

And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom. And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.

But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented. And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.

Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father's house: For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment.

Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them. And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent.

And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead. Luke 16:22-31

Of God

And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea. And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them. And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever. Revelation 20:8-10

~

Still Waiting For A Straight Answer

Do Your Believe The Words Of The LORD Jesus?

Are You An SDA And Place The Words Of Man And Some Woman Above The Word Of God?

Are You A Mormon And Rightfully Ashamed Of Their Deceits And Lies?

A JW And Ashamed Of Their Mockery Of God's Salvation?

Come Out Come Out Whatever You Are

~

Believe

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. John 3:16

And Be Blessed Beloved

Love, Joe

[Guest ninhao]

Why All The Wiggly Non-Answers. Are You JW?

I have answered your question see post # 68.

No I am not a JW I believe they are anti Christ.

Whatever Are You Ashamed Of?

I am not ashamed read post #68. Shame would be represented by hiding I believe.

Are You A Lawyer?

Not a laywer. It does appear you place yourself as a prosecution attorney though are you this?

Cat Got Your Tongue?

funny

Have You Not Read

Or Believed

The Word

Of God

Yes. There are some doctrines which I am not fully settled upon as yet. are you doctrinally perfect in your walk and If not does this place you in opposition to the Word of God ?

Still Waiting For A Straight Answer

Do Your Believe The Words Of The LORD Jesus?

Are You An SDA And Place The Words Of Man And Some Woman Above The Word Of God?

You have been given straight answers of my current position on the doctrine of hell but have not been satisfied.

Yes I believe the words of my Lord Jesus. Are you doctrinally perfect, and if not does this mean you disbelieve the words of My Lord Jesus?

Not SDA no.

Are You A Mormon And Rightfully Ashamed Of Their Deceits And Lies?

A JW And Ashamed Of Their Mockery Of God's Salvation?

Come Out Come Out Whatever You Are

None of the above. I am non denominational.

Do you place yourself in the seat of Christ as my judge?

Believe

Yes yes I believe.

Rom 10:9-11 KJV That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. (10) For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. (11) For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.

Is their something else you insist I need to do for my Lord to save me?

And Be Blessed Beloved

I am indeed blessed by my Lord.

Luk 7:23 KJV And blessed is he, whosoever shall not be offended in me.

Thank you for you concern FresnoJoe. Please continue with your interrogation.

[HAZARD]

I have a question I have been wrestling with and I was wondering people's thoughts on the matter. Hell, commonly understood, is a place of eternal separation from God which is going to be the worst possible experience that anyone can ever hope to achieve. The major philosophical problem I am running into was posed to me by a deist friend of mine who was questioning whether the idea of hell was in some manner an injustice. His argument was as follows in roughly the order of the conversation we had (this is not a logic argument and is not in proper premise-conclusion form - I realize this).

(1) God creates human race

(2) The human race is finite

(3) Through actions of their own (this is assumed as I currently am holding a Molinist position of free will), part of the human race is justly condemned to separation from God.

(4) To be just, the punishment must fit the crime

(5) Eternal punishment is never a just punishment for a finite crime

(6) Even if original sin, the sins of all humanity was taking into consideration, based on (2) we would still require a finite punishment

(5) and (6) are particularly intriguing to me and have kept me thinking. I was wondering people's thoughts on the matter.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts. As always, I look forward to dialogue.

Regards,

BFA

Hi BFA.

All baout hell as recorded in Scripture.

Hell is mentioned in many dozens of Scriptures throughout the Bible. There are five departments in the underworld of departed Spirits, not one of these places is associated with or is the grave where bodies are buried.

These five departments are;

One). Paradise;

In Luke 16:19-31; 23:43, we have pictured total comfort and water in this prison because the rich man saw Lazarus afar off in comfort and bliss and asked him to dip his finger in water and cool his tongue (Luke 16:19-31).

This was the abode of the righteous souls from Adam after dying and leaving their bodies, being held captive by the devil against their wills till Christ's death and resurrection (Heb. 2:14-15; Eph. 4:7-11).Before Jesus Christ conqured the power of death and Hell, the devil had these powers. (Col. 2:14-17; Heb. 2:14-15; Rev. 1:18).

It was into this prison the repentant thief went with Christ the day they both died (Luke 23:43). This prison is located in the heart of the Earth as is clear from (Matt. 12:40 and Eph. 4:7-11).

Jesus not only went into this prison but He also went into another prison, "Tartarus," and preached to the fallen angels being held there in their own special prison, "And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day." (Jude 1:6). "For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;" (2 Peter 2:4).

Jesus having conqured Hell and death and the grave during His crucifiction and during the three days He was in the underworld, He captured all the righteous souls that were in Paradise and took them to Heaven when He ascended on high (Eph. 4:7-11).

Jesus now has the keys to Hell and death (Rev. 1:18).

When we check every Scripture provided in God's Word, we cannot believe Jesus did not go to Hell, preach to the SPIRITS there, and He also captured all the righteous souls, Abraham, Moses, Isac, David, and all the others rightious souls that were in Paradise and took them to Heaven when He ascended on high.

The five departments of Hell are;

One). Paradise, which we are speaking of here;

In Luke 16:19-31; 23:43, we have pictured total comfort and water in this prison because the rich man saw Lazarus afar off in comfort and bliss and asked him to dip his finger in water and cool his tongue (Luke 16:19-31). This was the abode of the righteous souls from Adam after dying and leaving their bodies, being held captive by the devil against their wills till Christ's death and resurrection (Heb. 2:14-15; Eph. 4:7-11). Before Jesus Christ conqured the power of death and Hell, the devil had these powers. (Col. 2:14-17; Heb. 2:14-15; Rev. 1:18).

It was into this prison the repentant thief went with Christ the day they both died (Luke 23:43). This prison is located in the heart of the Earth as is clear from Matt. 12:40 and Eph. 4:7-11. Jesus not only went into this prison but He also went into another prison, "Tartarus," and preached to the fallen angels being held there in their own special prison. Jesus having conqured Hell and death and the grave during His crucifiction and during the three days He was in the underworld, He captured all the righteous souls that were in Paradise and took them to Heaven when He ascended on high (Eph. 4:7-11). Jesus now has the keys to Hell and death (Rev. 1:18). Rightious souls who die now no longer go here. They go straight to Heaven when they die.

Two). Tartarus; This prison is the special prison for the fallen angels that sinned both before and after the flood. There is nothing recorded in Scripture that teaches demons or human beings ever go into this prison. In these passages it is clear that there is a real Hell that is not the grave and that Spirit beings are confined in chains until judgment (1 Pet. 3:19; 2 Pet. 2:4; Jude 6-7).

Three). Hell itself; (Matt. 16:18; Luke 16:19-31). This is the torment part in the unseen world and was, still is, and will yet be the abode of all the wicked souls and spirits of men from Able to the end of the Millennium. Then, at this time all the wicked will be liberated out of this prison and will be given their own immortal bodies and be judged before being cast into the "lake of fire" forever (Rev. 20:11-15; 21:8).

Four). The Bottomless Pit or Abyss is the abode or prison of demons and certain angelic beings. No human being is ever thrown into the abyss. It is a very deep chasm in the lower parts of the Earth. It is translated "deep" (Luke 8:26-31; Romans 10:7) and "Bottomless Pit" in Rev. 9:1-3, 11; 11:7; 17:8; 20:1-10). All these Scriptures prove that there are prisons in the lower parts of the Earth for departed sinning spirits, and they are not and could never be the same as a grave on the surface of the Earth.

And Five). The Lake of Fire, is the eternal Hell and perdition of wicked men, demons, fallen angels, and all rebellious creatures of all ages who have ever rebelled against God, and who have refused to repent when they could have. It is called "The Gehenna of Fire" and is always translated Hell (Matt. 5:22, 29, 30; 10:28; 18:9; 23:15, 33; Mark 9:43-45, 47; Luke 12:5; James 3:6). This prison is also called "the second death, which is the lake of fire" (Rev. 2:11; 20:6, 14). This final Hell was prepared for the devil and all his angels (Matt. 25:41-46), and for all other rebells, and it is ETERNAL in duration (Rev. 14:9-14; 20:10-15; Isa. 66:22-24; Matt. 25:46). There is no record in Scripture of anyone being the lake of fire at present. Scripture does show that the beast and the false prophet will be the first to be cast into it. This will happen before the Millennium (Rev. 19:20). They will still be there 1,000 years later when the devil and all other rebells will be cast into it (Rev. 20:10-15).

Scripture also teaches that there will be degrees of punishment in Hell as far as remorse and torment of the conscience is concerned (Matt. 10:15; 11:22; 12:41; 23:14; Mark 6:11; 12:40; Luke 10:14; 11:31, 32; 20:47). These degrees of punishment will be because of the kind of sins comitted by one that were not comitted by another. No man will be punished or could have remorse over something he did not do. They will all regret rebelling against God and man and failing to believe in Jesus, and repenting of sin.

Haz.

Hi Joe,

[Guest]

Do you place yourself in the seat of Christ as my judge?

Straight Shooter

I'll Take That As Your Best Answer To My Concern

Over The Judgmental (Cavalier) Treatment Of The Words Of Jesus

Some Day Soon When (If?) You Become Open To Honest Communication With The Members Of Worthy

It Will Be Nice To Read Your Explanation As To Why You Think It Grand To Judge And Confess

That The Clear Words Of Jesus Are Open To Philosophical Corrections

And The Judgement Of Mortal Men

Until That Day Should Dawn Over These Forums

The Day God's The Son Gets His Just Due

Be Blessed Beloved

The LORD bless thee, and keep thee:

The LORD make his face shine upon thee, and be gracious unto thee:

The LORD lift up his countenance upon thee, and give thee peace.

And they shall put my name upon the children of Israel; and I will bless them. Numbers 6:24-27

Love, Joe

[Guest]

Hi Joe,

Beloved~!

[Guest ninhao]

Straight Shooter

I'll Take That As Your Best Answer To My Concern

Over The Judgmental (Cavalier) Treatment Of The Words Of Jesus

Some Day Soon When (If?) You Become Open To Honest Communication With The Members Of Worthy

It Will Be Nice To Read Your Explanation As To Why You Think It Grand To Judge And Confess

That The Clear Words Of Jesus Are Open To Philosophical Corrections

And The Judgement Of Mortal Men

Until That Day Should Dawn Over These Forums

The Day God's The Son Gets His Just Due

Be Blessed Beloved

The LORD bless thee, and keep thee:

The LORD make his face shine upon thee, and be gracious unto thee:

The LORD lift up his countenance upon thee, and give thee peace.

And they shall put my name upon the children of Israel; and I will bless them. Numbers 6:24-27

Love, Joe

Since you haven't directly answered my questions I will continue to assume you do not wish dialogue but monologue. A person of monologue is not where I go to gain further understanding in any matter.

I do not remotely understand your concerns at this stage.

Jesus indeed will have His due over my words and yours. God bless you and keep you.

[Guest]

.... I do not remotely understand your concerns at this stage....

Please Forgive Me.

I Will Try Once Again.

Hell Is Real.

If your hand or your foot causes you to stumble, cut it off and throw it from you; it is better for you to enter life crippled or lame, than 1to have two hands or two feet and be cast into the eternal fire. Matthew 18:8 (New American Standard Bible: 1995)

Hell Is Eternal.

“These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.” Matthew 25:46 (New American Standard Bible: 1995)

Jesus Tells The Truth.

“Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life. John 5:24 (New American Standard Bible: 1995)

So, What Is There To Deny?

These are the men who are hidden reefs in your love feasts when they feast with you without fear, caring for themselves; clouds without water, carried along by winds; autumn trees without fruit, doubly dead, uprooted; wild waves of the sea, casting up their own shame like foam; wandering stars, for whom the black darkness has been reserved forever. Jude 1:12-13 (New American Standard Bible: 1995)

Why Teach His Words Are Void?

And On Worthy Of All Places?

These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so. Acts 17:11

Beloved, Do You See?