Born of Water and Spirit by Jack Kelly

[OneLight]

Your statement is false on baptism is not needed. Jesus gave the command in Mark 16:16 be baptized to be saved.

There is no example of infant baptism in the bible. Jesus points out in John 3:5 if a man be born of the water, meaning someone with understanding. We all agree that a baby is not a person capable of receiving this choice.

Mark 16:16

16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

So often this verse is is misunderstood. Baptism is a result of being saved, not the avenue of salvation. It it was, Christ would of included baptism in His statement of being dammed. He did not. His words were "but he that believeth not shall be damned" ... no mention of baptism at all.

Your explanation is false. Here's why. Jesus stated he who believes and is baptized is saved. Question. Who states I do not believe in the Gospel but I will be baptized?

No one. So this shows Jesus would not need to repeat the actual word baptism in the second line of Mark 16:16. Why? Being baptized without believing is pointless all on it's own.

You are right. Nobody who does not believe in Christ and accept His salvation would ever want to be baptized. Yet, that does not mean baptism is required for salvation. Man has read this verse, and a few others, and have connected dots that are not there. Otherwise, if what you say is true, then Acts 16:31 is a lie "So they said, “Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved, you and your household.”", along with Romans 10:8-10 "But what does it say? “The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart” (that is, the word of faith which we preach): that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation."

Baptism is a result of salvation, not the means to salvation.

Lets look at Acts 16:31. Paul obviously knew baptism was a necessity because the whole household got baptized. This proves when Paul says the word believe that it means a summary of salvation.

Acts 16

31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

32 And they spake unto him the word of the Lord, and to all that were in his house.

33 And he took them the same hour of the night, and washed [their] stripes; and was baptized, he and all his, straightway.

34 And when he had brought them into his house, he set meat before them, and rejoiced, believing in God with all his house.

Now onto Romans Road to salvation. Romans 10:9 Paul says confess with mouth The Lord Jesus and believe God raised him.

Now lets read verse 10 where Paul elaborates on 10:9.

Romans 10

10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

What is righteousness? It says to believe unto righteousness.

Merriam Webster defines righteousness - acting in accord with divine or moral law : free from guilt or sin

Key words are Act and law. Law is a command. When Jesus gave a command like Mark 16:16. We need to follow the command if we love Jesus (John 14:5).

So what is the summary here we believe unto righteousness meaning we follow the divine command and we mouth confess meaning repentance.

Also romans 10 was preached to already baptized brothers because Paul starts out in Romans 10:1 saying brethren. Meaning already baptized in Jesus name. How do we know? Read back 4 chapters before in Romans 6:1-8 and Paul explains.

So in the end. You have to be baptized in Jesus name for salvation. : )

I see you ignored what I posted ... interesting.

[Enoc]

What then does the water and the blood which flowed from the pierced side of Jesus do for us? Why does Jesus tell His disciples that they are clean because of the word He had already spoken to them (John 15:5). The word clean here is connected to the word clean in John 13:10 where Jesus says that "He who is bathed needs only to wash his feet, but is completely clean, and you are clean but not all of you " referring to Judas leaving me to think according to immersion that Judas was also immersed.

The words bathed and wash are translated from two different Greek words. The first is from Gk. louo and denotes complete ablution. Wash is from Gk. nipto which is the usual NT word for washing for washing hands or feet.

So once one believes he is cleansed as before the law from all sin "once for all" but needs throughout his life to bring his sins daily to the Father in confession to abide in unbroken confession with the Father and the Son. The blood answers forever but the individual needs constant cleansing from sin and guilt through prayer. Christ will not have communion with a defiled saint.

So is baptism the most important of cleansing or is the daily confession of sin. Baptized and live in sin because of no time for confession or prayer and hope that the immersion has done it once for all or no immersion and confessing daily? To me the rite of immersion is one that denominations use before one can join or vote in that denomination but necessary no. I would rather depend on the blood of my saviour which flowed with water from his pierced side only than on anything that I, myself, may have to do.

I suggest that the meaning is representative of a birth. A symbolic birth. The birth if the Church sometimes called the bride of Christ.

It was birthed at the moment Jesus died. Hence the flow of blood and water from his side.

The other time in scripture where God created a bride was with Adam.

Genesis 2:22 And the rib or part of his side which the Lord God had taken from the man He built up and made into a woman, and He brought her to the man.

With that said, if you have been given the understanding/knowledge of who Christ is and accept it then you have been born again, I mean born from above, I mean born of water and the spirit, and have become a member of the body of Christ, I mean the church, I mean the bride.

Maybe it's a stretch, but that's what I have received so far.

Edited May 30, 2013 by Enoc

[Littlelambseativy]

What then does the water and the blood which flowed from the pierced side of Jesus do for us? Why does Jesus tell His disciples that they are clean because of the word He had already spoken to them (John 15:5). The word clean here is connected to the word clean in John 13:10 where Jesus says that "He who is bathed needs only to wash his feet, but is completely clean, and you are clean but not all of you " referring to Judas leaving me to think according to immersion that Judas was also immersed.

The words bathed and wash are translated from two different Greek words. The first is from Gk. louo and denotes complete ablution. Wash is from Gk. nipto which is the usual NT word for washing for washing hands or feet.

So once one believes he is cleansed as before the law from all sin "once for all" but needs throughout his life to bring his sins daily to the Father in confession to abide in unbroken confession with the Father and the Son. The blood answers forever but the individual needs constant cleansing from sin and guilt through prayer. Christ will not have communion with a defiled saint.

So is baptism the most important of cleansing or is the daily confession of sin. Baptized and live in sin because of no time for confession or prayer and hope that the immersion has done it once for all or no immersion and confessing daily? To me the rite of immersion is one that denominations use before one can join or vote in that denomination but necessary no. I would rather depend on the blood of my saviour which flowed with water from his pierced side only than on anything that I, myself, may have to do.

I suggest that the meaning is representative of a birth. A symbolic birth. The birth if the Church sometimes called the bride of Christ.

It was birthed at the moment Jesus died. Hence the flow of blood and water from his side.

The other time in scripture where God created a bride was with Adam.

Genesis 2:22 And the rib or part of his side which the Lord God had taken from the man He built up and made into a woman, and He brought her to the man.

With that said, if you have been given the understanding/knowledge of who Christ is and accept it then you have been born again, I mean born from above, I mean born of water and the spirit, and have become a member of the body of Christ, I mean the church, I mean the bride.

Maybe it's a stretch, but that's what I have received so far.

With that I agree. We are washed by the water (baptized) which flowed from Jesus' side and covered by His blood covered and protected as His - adopted by the Father - the Holy Spirit then comes into our hearts and marks and seals us as a member of the Bride of Christ.

[Enoc]

Littlelambseativy

 

Question: If being baptize represents the washing away of sin (symbolically), what is your thought as to why Jesus was baptized? He was born without sin and committed no sin.