man shot dead at western wall

[OakWood]

Its always dangerous to make wide generalisations form very limited personal experiences.

I wouldn't call being threatened on a number of occasions, 'very limited'.

I can confirm that Islam is dangerous based on personal experiences, experiences of others that I know and on the evidence of Muslim scripture (which I am well versed in) and on the evidence of history, as well as the evidence of what is happening today in the World.

[Gandalf]

 

 

 

 

 

 

You do not have a clue, and neither do I. All your protestations, and quotes of Scripture, notwithstanding, sorry. Scripture gives us clues, but really, what is the bosom of Abraham, anyway? An alliteration; we have no more knowledge afterward--not to say that the Scripture here is not accurate; it is our understanding of heaven that is deficient. You are not "going to heaven" in the sense we are taught; there is no place called "heaven." Heaven is coming here, to earth, as plainly stated in the Lord's prayer. Btw, that was Scripture I quoted; Ecclesiastes. And all of this assumes that we are even going to heaven, which is not assured by ones speech. MANY will say, "Lord. Lord..." could be me, or you. We will also be known by our fruits.

 

Hello I'm a Servant (Moderator) with WCF... bbrd009 who is Jesus Christ to you please?

The Son of God and divine Himself

or

simply a good teacher/man?

 

Wonderful; Counselor; King of Peace; Master of the Universe; Son of God; Savior.

 

 

Okay thanks. Are there multiple ways to God or Jesus Christ the only way?

God bless,

GE

 

Only One! Jesus Christ, the righteous is the only way, whether you are a Bhudist, Muslim, Jew or Confucianist, or just a plain money-lover.

 

Amen; the issue becomes that we assume we have a valid symbology for this (ie "talk like I do, or be damned"), when such is not the case. Someone who has found the one way will be known by their fruit, and not their lexicon.

 

Yes, you are right. We Christians spend too much time and energy nit-picking our Brother's theology.

[Qnts2]

 

 

 

 

 

 

please . The common western naivete` demonstrates why most here are rabid Mooslim haters, fed by the news. Billions of Muslims wish you no ill will. But they are a passionate people--they have not died like us--and, like any people, if you push hard enough (and your pushing has transgressed all bounds since '48, and Jaffa), you cannot expect to not radicalize many. It was the plan. Put in place by the prince of this world. Don't even be surprised when most are sucked in.

 

It is ludicrous to imagine that the vast majority of Muslims even think about you, on a given day--they are busy staying alive. If you actually saw any of them in their native habitat, you would understand how removed they are from you, Spiritually and otherwise. They live in conditions that would kill us in a week. Their middle school daughters (pretending here that they would ever be so lucky as to attend any school) could kill one of us, full grown male, but if one were out of line with them they would be the ones apologizing and being meek. Fox news is not our friend; they are lying to us. The press, after all, is an estate, and we are told who the head of every worldly estate is.

 

 

 

Well, all I will say is that I didn't get my total distrust of Islam from Fox News, I got it from the Koran, "Reliance of the Traveller" and Bukhari's hadith. No, I would add one more thing, you express the naiveté Shiloh speaks of.  

 

 

 

Are you a Christan. or a Muslim?

 

(he says, in post #42, lol...God is nudging me)

Ok, well, all I can say is that I got my trust of Muslims from being stuck out in the square at sundown, in the West Bank. No one quoted any Qur`anic verses at me (until I asked), and poor people who didn't even like me, at first anyway, took me in.

But I also distrust anyone claiming Lord, Lord a bit too loudly, and then demonstrating otherwise, and the same goes for anyone claiming Islam. Expressions are usually naive, anyway; but this is another thread--we can see who might actually be the naif there, should we get that far together.

 

"Are you a Christan. or a Muslim?"

Do you promise to take me at my word?

 

 

I got my distrust from experience with Muslims.

 

At my job, I was in a meeting with many people, including a person who was Muslim. He approached me during a break, and whispered in my ear, if it were not for the law, he would kill me on the spot. I had not quoted any scripture to him.  

 

Another time, while I had a friend who was dating a Muslim. The friend, as well as others were putting together a small above ground pool. The friend invited her boyfriend. The boyfriend told me that he was taught to hate me, and taught it was his duty to kill me. I had not said anything derogatory and had not quoted any scripture to him.

 

This has happened to me several times. These were people who were Muslims. I did not know them and they did not know me. I did not quote scripture to them. I was not speaking derogatorily of Islam or even talking about Islam. They all said they would like to do me bodily harm. Why? Simply because I am Jewish. In their view, it is their responsibility to kill all of the Jewish people. Jewish people do not believe, and are not taught from childhood that it is their responsibility to kill all Muslims. Jewish people just want to live in peace without being threatened and attacked.

 

So, I would say, you have a very wrong view of Jewish people and Muslims in general.

 

What happened in 1948? Britain had promised both the Muslims and the Jewish people pieces of land Britain had in the middle east. Britain turned Jordan (then called Trans-Jordan), over to the Muslims. In 1948, by a vote in the U.N., the other piece of land was turned over to the Jewish people. On the very day that the land was turned over to the Jewish people, Egypt, Jordan, Syria,  Lebanon, Iraq, Saudi Arabia, and Yemen attacked the Jewish people.  

 

When the land was turned over to Muslims for Jordan, most Jewish people living in Muslim countries were expelled. About 700,000 Jewish people. When the land of Israel was turned over to the Jewish people, many Muslims living in that land were encouraged to leave by other Islamic countries with the promise that they would attack and win all of the land for them. About 700,000 Muslims left. Some Muslims stayed. On the day of independence, all Muslims living in the land were offered citizenship. Many had left but some received citizenship in Israel.    

 

 

Your tale is interesting and does not surprise me in the slightest. As for what you said about Israel, you are right. God bless you.

 

see how the Muslims were betrayed here, by Kings conspiring.

 

If you see a conspiracy, it was Muslim Kings who did the conspiring promising that if they left Israel, they would defeat the Jewish people and gain all of the land for Muslims.

 

Radicalized Muslims are actually radicalized because of the actions and teachings of Muslim Kings and Imams and Muslim iman.

Edited June 25, 2013 by Qnts2

[Qnts2]

 

 

But even so, bbyrd009 is attempting to remove any responsibility from those committing murder and terrorism at the behest of whatever King or Imam is encouraging them to perpetrate.  The Quran, as you know, teaches Muslims to hate both Jews and Christians alike.  They are told to convert them, lie to them, and kill them, if necessary.  That is their religion.  bbyrd009 denies this.  A King or Imam might point them in the direction of a violent act, but ultimately, it is the individual which decides whether to strap a bomb to themselves and blow themselves up, or behead a Christian kidnap victim.  The end user is the one responsible.   A peaceful Muslim is one who is "backslidden" and not practicing the dictates of the Quran.  Jihad and conversion, by violence if necessary, is always their primary goal   

 

 

Prior to WW2, Jewish people lived safely in Muslim countries. The Muslim countries were actually safer for the Jewish people then many so-called Christian countries.

 

In Islam, Jewish people and Christians are called people of the book. As people of the book, the Koran says that we can live in Muslim lands, with an additional tax. Other then Muslims, Jews and Christians, those of other religions are not allowed to live in the land. Most Muslim countries stopped charging the special tax, but then again, it is also becoming more difficult if not impossible for Jews and Christians to live in Muslim lands.

 

I know the Hadith has some unpleasant things about Jews and Christians, but to my knowledge, the Koran mainly has unpleasant/hostile statements about Jews and Christians when it comes to the end-time scenario. (Although they do accuse us of altering scripture). I am not that concerned about end-time scenario. For Christianity, from a non-Christian view, the end-time scenario is not so positive for non-believers, and millions of people die.  In the bible, Christians and Jews are vindicated by God and victorious. In the Koran, Muslims are vindicated by Allah, and are victorious.  

 

The problem is, Muslims have taken the war from the end times, led by Allah, to today. This might not be new, but was not so common in previous years. Because of the newer approach and view of many, many Muslims are some of the most backwards, violent, prejudiced and unjust/unethical people around. Islamic countries and the Muslim people really need to hear the gospel, because few have. But today, greater numbers of Muslims are coming to believe on Jesus as Lord and savior.

[Qnts2]

 

 

Prior to WW2, Jewish people lived safely in Muslim countries. The Muslim countries were actually safer for the Jewish people then many so-called Christian countries.

 

 

 You are going to have to clarify that statement.

 

 

Prior to WW2, there was a relatively good sized population of Jewish people in Muslim countries. In Muslim countries, the Jewish people could work, practice Judaism, and live a relatively safety. Jewish people had to pay a tax as non-Muslims. Once in a great while there was some persecution but no where to the level experienced in Christian countries.

 

In so called Christian countries, there tended to be a much higher level of persecution, there were times Judaism was forbidden. There were times when there was forced conversion or death. Jewish people were limited in what jobs they were allowed to do, and in many Christian countries were not allowed to own land. At times the Jewish people were forced out of their homes in so called Christian countries, when many died trying to find a new place to live. And then there were the outright attacks on Jewish villages or neighborhoods when Jewish people were killed.

 

Not that there was no persecution in Muslim countries, but it was much less, and much less intense, then in so-called Christian countries. Until WW2 when anti-semitism saw an increase in Muslim countries.

 

We are looking at the history starting in Rome, when Constantine claimed to be a Christian, and outlawed Judaism, to the crusades, and the inquisition, the pograms, Luther and his anti-Jewish paper which encouraged Christians to come against Jewish people, etc.    

[Guest shiloh357]

You know nothing of the kind; you have prejudices, fed by Fox News, and claim to know the whole of God. If all that is true, then you need only to explain why Ishmael was blessed of God. You will be required to die for Christ, also; do you need a ref for this?

 

If they worship the same God, then why  don't Muslims believe God when He says that Jesus is the way of Salvation?   Why do they persecute and execute Muslims who convert to Chrsitianity?   They don't seem to think they are worshipping the same God.

 

The notion that Muslims and Christians worship the same God is a liberal, western fairytale.  It is not the truth and the Muslims who murder Muslims for becoming Christians and murder anyone who seeks to lead Muslims to Jesus is evidence that they do feel that the God of the Bible and their allah are the same entity.

 

You do not have a clue, and neither do I. All your protestations, and quotes of Scripture, notwithstanding, sorry. Scripture gives us clues, but really, what is the bosom of Abraham, anyway? An alliteration; we have no more knowledge afterward--not to say that the Scripture here is not accurate; it is our understanding of heaven that is deficient. You are not "going to heaven" in the sense we are taught; there is no place called "heaven." Heaven is coming here, to earth, as plainly stated in the Lord's prayer. Btw, that was Scripture I quoted; Ecclesiastes. And all of this assumes that we are even going to heaven, which is not assured by ones speech. MANY will say, "Lord. Lord..." could be me, or you. We will also be known by our fruits.

 

I have more than a clue;  I have a promise (Eph. 1:14-15, John 5:11-13, John 5:24)  All of those verses tell me that I am saved today and that I have the Holy Spirit in me as a guarantee of my inheritance.  

 

You may not know if you are saved, but don't project your lack of assurance on me.  I am a Christian because Jesus lives in me and He keeps me saved.   You must belong to some other religion, because a true Christian knows they are saved and can prove it from the Bible.

 

The bosom of Abraham is not an "alliteration."  You don't even know how to use that word.  An alliteration is a literary device in poetry where each stanza or a series of words in a stanza begins witht the same letter of the alphabet.

 

 

Quote

Yes, I think folks who demonstrate that their God, by any Name, is One, will be in the New Jerusalem.

 

Wrong:    "I am the way the truth and the life;  no man comes to the father but by me."  Joun 14:6.    Jesus is the only way.  All who serve other gods by other names will go to hell.

I'm not seeing the conflict, if indeed there is any. Any other god is not "One," and will not pass the testing of spirits to determine if they are "One."

If I tell you to stay here for the present, will you sit and wait, like a little kid, for a present? Then what difference do you see in my statement and your regurgitation?

 

 

the conflict is that Jesus and no allah is the way to God.  All Muslims who worship allah are going to hell.  Jesus is the ONLY way to the Father and that is somelthing HE said, himself.  So you are saying that Jesus is wrong.  Allah is not the God of the Bible and he is not the way to God.

[Qnts2]

 

the conflict is that Jesus and no allah is the way to God.  All Muslims who worship allah are going to hell.  Jesus is the ONLY way to the Father and that is somelthing HE said, himself.  So you are saying that Jesus is wrong.  Allah is not the God of the Bible and he is not the way to God.

of spirits to determine if they are "One."

 

 

 

 

The word for God in Arabic is Allah. So to say that Allah is not the way to God would be saying God is not the way to God. Arab Christians when speaking Arabic use the word Allah for God, the Father. And would say Jesus (Isa) is the only way to Allah.  

 

The word Allah meaning God in Arabic, predates Islam.

 

So now, I have to ask a question. The Muslims say the God/Allah has no son. Jesus says that He is the Son of God. But, here is an issue. Judaism says God is one and only one and does not have a son. I personally believe that Judaism believes in God. But Muslims do not. Not because they reject Jesus (which means there is no salvation in Islam) but because they have added and taken away from the OT and the NT, so they have changed what God said, and therefore believe in a different god.  

[Gandalf]

 

You know nothing of the kind; you have prejudices, fed by Fox News, and claim to know the whole of God. If all that is true, then you need only to explain why Ishmael was blessed of God. You will be required to die for Christ, also; do you need a ref for this?

 

If they worship the same God, then why  don't Muslims believe God when He says that Jesus is the way of Salvation?   Why do they persecute and execute Muslims who convert to Chrsitianity?   They don't seem to think they are worshipping the same God.

 

The notion that Muslims and Christians worship the same God is a liberal, western fairytale.  It is not the truth and the Muslims who murder Muslims for becoming Christians and murder anyone who seeks to lead Muslims to Jesus is evidence that they do feel that the God of the Bible and their allah are the same entity.

 

You do not have a clue, and neither do I. All your protestations, and quotes of Scripture, notwithstanding, sorry. Scripture gives us clues, but really, what is the bosom of Abraham, anyway? An alliteration; we have no more knowledge afterward--not to say that the Scripture here is not accurate; it is our understanding of heaven that is deficient. You are not "going to heaven" in the sense we are taught; there is no place called "heaven." Heaven is coming here, to earth, as plainly stated in the Lord's prayer. Btw, that was Scripture I quoted; Ecclesiastes. And all of this assumes that we are even going to heaven, which is not assured by ones speech. MANY will say, "Lord. Lord..." could be me, or you. We will also be known by our fruits.

 

I have more than a clue;  I have a promise (Eph. 1:14-15, John 5:11-13, John 5:24)  All of those verses tell me that I am saved today and that I have the Holy Spirit in me as a guarantee of my inheritance.  

 

You may not know if you are saved, but don't project your lack of assurance on me.  I am a Christian because Jesus lives in me and He keeps me saved.   You must belong to some other religion, because a true Christian knows they are saved and can prove it from the Bible.

 

The bosom of Abraham is not an "alliteration."  You don't even know how to use that word.  An alliteration is a literary device in poetry where each stanza or a series of words in a stanza begins witht the same letter of the alphabet.

 

 

Quote

Yes, I think folks who demonstrate that their God, by any Name, is One, will be in the New Jerusalem.

 

Wrong:    "I am the way the truth and the life;  no man comes to the father but by me."  Joun 14:6.    Jesus is the only way.  All who serve other gods by other names will go to hell.

I'm not seeing the conflict, if indeed there is any. Any other god is not "One," and will not pass the testing of spirits to determine if they are "One."

If I tell you to stay here for the present, will you sit and wait, like a little kid, for a present? Then what difference do you see in my statement and your regurgitation?

 

 

the conflict is that Jesus and no allah is the way to God.  All Muslims who worship allah are going to hell.  Jesus is the ONLY way to the Father and that is somelthing HE said, himself.  So you are saying that Jesus is wrong.  Allah is not the God of the Bible and he is not the way to God.

 

Yes this is true. No-one who denies Jesus as the Son of God, Saviour and Messiah can be saved, be they Muslim, Jew, Hindu or whatever.

[Guest shiloh357]

The word for God in Arabic is Allah. So to say that Allah is not the way to God would be saying God is not the way to God. Arab Christians when speaking Arabic use the word Allah for God, the Father. And would say Jesus (Isa) is the only way to Allah.  

 

I have Arab Christian friends in Israel and they do not call God, "allah."    They use the word,"God,"  "Jehovah," and "Jesus" or "Yeshua."  God has revealed His Name to mankind.  To call Him by a pagan name that originates from the polythesitic culture of pre-Islam Arabia simply doens't wash.

 

In " government approved" churches in Arab countries the Christians use the name "allah."   But I have not met an Arab who is genuine follower of Jesus who uses that name for God.

So now, I have to ask a question. The Muslims say the God/Allah has no son. Jesus says that He is the Son of God. But, here is an issue. Judaism says God is one and only one and does not have a son. I personally believe that Judaism believes in God. But Muslims do not. Not because they reject Jesus (which means there is no salvation in Islam) but because they have added and taken away from the OT and the NT, so they have changed what God said, and therefore believe in a different god.  

 

 

There is no question in that statement.  What is the question?

[Qnts2]

 

The word for God in Arabic is Allah. So to say that Allah is not the way to God would be saying God is not the way to God. Arab Christians when speaking Arabic use the word Allah for God, the Father. And would say Jesus (Isa) is the only way to Allah.  

 

I have Arab Christian friends in Israel and they do not call God, "allah."    They use the word,"God,"  "Jehovah," and "Jesus" or "Yeshua."  God has revealed His Name to mankind.  To call Him by a pagan name that originates from the polythesitic culture of pre-Islam Arabia simply doens't wash.

 

In " government approved" churches in Arab countries the Christians use the name "allah."   But I have not met an Arab who is genuine follower of Jesus who uses that name for God.

So now, I have to ask a question. The Muslims say the God/Allah has no son. Jesus says that He is the Son of God. But, here is an issue. Judaism says God is one and only one and does not have a son. I personally believe that Judaism believes in God. But Muslims do not. Not because they reject Jesus (which means there is no salvation in Islam) but because they have added and taken away from the OT and the NT, so they have changed what God said, and therefore believe in a different god.  

 

 

There is no question in that statement.  What is the question?

 

 

Some OT/NT bibles translated into Arabic use God/Jehovah, and some use Allah. Allah is not the name of a Muslim god, but means God. So when an Arab says Allah, it does not necessarily refer to the Muslim god.

 

I know of Palestinian Christians who use Allah. It varies. We just have to be careful because assuming Allah is always Muslim is not true.

 

The question is, since Judaism denies Jesus, that God has no son, do you think Judaism in the same category as Islam? If not, why?