Budman Posted November 21, 2004 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 75 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 407 Content Per Day: 0.06 Reputation: 1 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/09/2004 Status: Offline Share Posted November 21, 2004 Air Force Coach to Remove Christian Banner Sat Nov 20, 7:25 PM ET U.S. National - AP AIR FORCE ACADEMY, Colo. - The Air Force Academy's longtime football coach has agreed to remove a Christian banner from the team's locker room after school administrators announced they would do more to fight religious intolerance. Coach Fisher DeBerry agreed Friday to remove the banner, which displayed the "Competitor's Creed," including the lines "I am a Christian first and last ... I am a member of Team Jesus Christ." DeBerry put the banner up Wednesday to encourage the team, which has experienced one of its worst seasons in recent years, academy spokesman Lt. Col. Laurent Fox said. A day earlier, academy Superintendent Lt. Gen. John W. Rosa announced the school would do more religious tolerance training after some nonreligious cadets reported on a survey that they felt ostracized. Others reported hearing religious slurs or jokes. Outgoing Air Force Secretary James Roche issued a statement Friday backing the academy's effort. "Our policy is clear. Tolerance of gender, racial, ethnic and religious diversity is required at our Air Force," Roche said. In September, academy officials issued a memo explaining the government's e-mail policy after some staffers put biblical verses at the bottom of their e-mails. Some cadets were admonished in March for using academy e-mail accounts to encourage other people to see "The Passion of the Christ," Mel Gibson's movie about the crucifixion. warm regards -bud Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonard Posted November 21, 2004 Group: Royal Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 115 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 8,281 Content Per Day: 1.12 Reputation: 249 Days Won: 3 Joined: 03/03/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/30/1955 Share Posted November 21, 2004 Only a revival of genuine religion can save this country. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UndecidedFrog Posted November 21, 2004 Group: Nonbeliever Followers: 2 Topic Count: 16 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 2,063 Content Per Day: 0.29 Reputation: 15 Days Won: 1 Joined: 08/02/2004 Status: Offline Share Posted November 21, 2004 This is just my opinion. You don't have to accept it if you dislike it. DISCLAIMER: I am not a christian. I think it is unfortunate that in this case tolerance for religious diversity is being confused with non-discrimination for people with different religious backgrounds. Tolerance = acceptance. Non-discrimination = not favoring one over another. In this case I understand why putting up a banner that states, "I am a Christian first and last ... I am a member of Team Jesus Christ," would be discrimination against non-christians on the team. Regards, UndecidedFrog Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steff Posted November 21, 2004 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 86 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 624 Content Per Day: 0.08 Reputation: 1 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/20/2004 Status: Offline Share Posted November 21, 2004 Tolerance does not mean acceptance. I can tolerate someone without accepting their ideals or morals. Tolerance does not mean that they have to feel comfortable around me, it only means that they are in no imminent danger from me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UndecidedFrog Posted November 22, 2004 Group: Nonbeliever Followers: 2 Topic Count: 16 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 2,063 Content Per Day: 0.29 Reputation: 15 Days Won: 1 Joined: 08/02/2004 Status: Offline Share Posted November 22, 2004 This is just my opinion. You don't have to accept it if you dislike it. DISCLAIMER: I am not a christian. Tolerance = acceptance of people no matter what they believe or disbelieve. UndecidedFrog Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steff Posted November 22, 2004 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 86 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 624 Content Per Day: 0.08 Reputation: 1 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/20/2004 Status: Offline Share Posted November 22, 2004 No, tolerance means I won't be hostile to them when I'm around them. It does not mean that I have to accept them. There is a big difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
larryt Posted November 22, 2004 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 52 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 2,230 Content Per Day: 0.31 Reputation: 124 Days Won: 1 Joined: 08/22/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 05/03/1952 Share Posted November 22, 2004  This is just my opinion. You don't have to accept it if you dislike it. DISCLAIMER: I am not a christian.  Tolerance = acceptance of people no matter what they believe or disbelieve.  UndecidedFrog <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Hi there UnDF, And what does it mean to "accept people no matter what they believe?" I work with people who are not christians. I have no problem with them, and can interact with them, and work with them. There are things that christians believe that are not tolerated by the non-believers though. Without Christ they are doomed to an eternity in hell. I don't want them to go there and I will warn them of the judgement to come. So why won't they tolerate me? The tolerance card is only played against christians when the world doesn't want to be confronted with the facts of the bible. LT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonard Posted November 22, 2004 Group: Royal Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 115 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 8,281 Content Per Day: 1.12 Reputation: 249 Days Won: 3 Joined: 03/03/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/30/1955 Share Posted November 22, 2004 Shall I 'accept' someone whose philosophy of life is that they MUST kill me if they can get away with it, in order to please their 'god'? Shall I 'tolerate' someone whose sworn religious duty is to slowly cut my head off..a torture to which we decent mensches would not subject an animal? STOP MOSLEM IMMIGRATION NOW!!! We Christians need to pray that God will drive the evil demon who is the power behind Islam into the pit of hell, whence he came, and that God will bring hundreds of millions of precious Moslem souls to a saving knowledge of Jesus Christ. Our 2nd President, John Adams studied widely, and was a very brilliant man. A prescient Christian, he wrote that someday America would have to fight the whole Islamic world. And that when that time came, we would probably have to do it alone, because of Europes (then) growing moral lassitude (now grown, blossomed, and bearing its deadly fruit). The only way for a huge and horrible war to be avoided is for A: All Christians to give up Christianity and adopt Islam, or B: For Moslems to be converted to Christ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steff Posted November 22, 2004 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 86 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 624 Content Per Day: 0.08 Reputation: 1 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/20/2004 Status: Offline Share Posted November 22, 2004 You sure you're thinking of the right John Adams Leonard? "It is the duty of all men in society, publicly, and at stated seasons, to worship the SUPREME BEING, the great Creator and Preserver of the universe. And no subject shall be hurt, molested, or restrained, in his person, liberty, or estate, for worshipping GOD in the manner most agreeable to the dictates of his own conscience; or for his religious profession or sentiments; provided he doth not disturb the public peace, or obstruct others in their religious worship." John Adams, Thoughts on Government, 1776 The same John Adams that firmly stood by freedom of religion? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UndecidedFrog Posted November 22, 2004 Group: Nonbeliever Followers: 2 Topic Count: 16 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 2,063 Content Per Day: 0.29 Reputation: 15 Days Won: 1 Joined: 08/02/2004 Status: Offline Share Posted November 22, 2004 This is just my opinion. You don't have to accept it if you dislike it. DISCLAIMER: I am not a christian. No, tolerance means I won't be hostile to them when I'm around them. It does not mean that I have to accept them. There is a big difference Do not do to others as you would not have them do unto you. Do not be hostile to them if you do not wish them to be hostile to you. This is a minimal level of tolerance. I pity the people you work with or who live in your community if they represent differing beliefs than you. And what does it mean to "accept people no matter what they believe?" I work with people who are not christians. I have no problem with them, and can interact with them, and work with them. This is a more compassionate level of tolerance. You are actually interacting with the heathen, and even go so far as to profess that you don't have a problem with them so that you can work with them. I applaud you. There are things that christians believe that are not tolerated by the non-believers though. Without Christ they are doomed to an eternity in hell. I don't want them to go there and I will warn them of the judgement to come. So why won't they tolerate me? The tolerance card is only played against christians when the world doesn't want to be confronted with the facts of the bible. Yes larryt, there are many things that are not acceptable from one belief/disbelief to another, and tolerance is a 2-way street. You may indeed feel as if the tolerance card is being played against the christians. However, let me give you my testimony that the tolerance card is played against the atheists and the muslims and all people of all beliefs alike. The key question one has to ask oneself is ...even though other people may believe other things or disbelieve other things, how can I live with them in peace? Will it be merely segregationalist mentality that rules? Or will it be some level of interaction? We all choose our behaviour. Can we live in peace? Do we want to? Regards, UndecidedFrog Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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