Butch5 Posted September 10, 2013 Group: Senior Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 0 Topics Per Day: 0 Content Count: 559 Content Per Day: 0.14 Reputation: 136 Days Won: 2 Joined: 09/09/2013 Status: Offline Birthday: 03/01/1962 Share Posted September 10, 2013 The Holy Bible is quite clear that works of any kind do not save. In fact, the Holy Bible emphatically states that if someone is trying to earn salvation by works or merit, that person will not get saved till they repent (change their mind) and cease trying to earn salvation. Works done for salvation mean no salvation. They mock Christ’s sacrifice on the cross. Paul is the apostle of the Gentiles, and it is the will of Jesus Christ that the Gentiles are to hear the gospel from Paul’s letters. Romans 11:13 For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office: Romans 15:16 That I should be the minister of Jesus Christ to the Gentiles, ministering the gospel of God, that the offering up of the Gentiles might be acceptable, being sanctified by the Holy Ghost. 2 Timothy 4:17 Notwithstanding the Lord stood with me, and strengthened me; that by me the preaching might be fully known, and that all the Gentiles might hear: and I was delivered out of the mouth of the lion. Romans 2:16 In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel. When asked what is required for salvation here is what Paul and Silas said. Acts 16:30-31 30 And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved? 31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house. When asked “what must I do to be saved” Paul only mentions “believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved.” He never mentions works, so it is not required. In the following passages Paul clearly states that trying to do works for salvation means no salvation. Romans 4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness. The following passage says that we are saved by grace through faith and not works. Ephesians 2:8-9 8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast. The following passages say if it is works it is no more grace. But we are only saved by grace. Therefore, works means no salvation at all. Romans 11:6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work. Here are more passages from Paul. Titus 1:16 They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate. Titus 3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; Hebrews 4:10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his. Hebrews 6:1 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God, So there is no passage from Paul that says works are required for salvation. There are a number that say works mean no salvation. There are many passages where Paul says that faith or belief in Jesus Christ is salvation, and since it is the only thing mentioned it must be through faith alone and not works. Here are just a few. Romans 4:3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness. Galatians 3:6 Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness. Romans 1:17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith. Galatians 3:11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith. Hebrews 10:38 Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him. Romans 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. Romans 3:22-26 22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference: 23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; 24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: 25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; 26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus. Christ Jesus the Lord shows that there is only one thing needed for salvation. They wanted to know the works (plural), that is, the entire list. Jesus listed the only thing allowed faith. Any other work for salvation is not of God. John 6:28-29 28 Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God? 29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent. In the next passage Jesus Christ says that to be saved you only need to believe on the Lord Jesus Christ. It works were required then the statement is false. It would have said: he that believes on me and does good works. Since it does not mention works, it has to be by belief alone. Furthermore, if a person does not believe what Jesus says, then they have not believed on the Lord Jesus Christ. Therefore, according to Jesus Christ, a person trusting in works or merit for salvation is not saved. Thus John 6:47 is a faith alone statement which excludes works. Furthermore it is an eternal security statement (once saved always saved) since to have everlasting life means you could never be damned, unless it would say might have everlasting life. Thus Jesus declares that works are not needed to maintain salvation either. The double verily makes this simple to understand statement emphatic. John 6:47 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life. There are many passages (probably over 200) where only faith or belief in Jesus Christ is what saves. The same logic above applies to each of these statements. John 3:14-18 14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: 15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. 16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. 17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. 18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. John 11:25-26 25 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: 26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this? John 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life. John 10:28-30 28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. 29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand. 30 I and my Father are one. The following passage shows that good works come after salvation (as a result of salvation) and not for salvation. Created in Christ Jesus means already saved. Unto good works shows that good works come after salvation (by God working in you). Notice it also says, “should” not must. So they are not required for salvation or to maintain salvation. Ephesians 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them. The above sampling absolutely proves that works are not needed for salvation. They also prove that eternal security (once saved always saved) is absolutely true. They are emphatic and quite clear. Since the Holy Bible has no contradictions, anything that someone thinks shows otherwise is just a mistaken interpretation. Many people assume a passage is talking about salvation/damnation when it is not. This is usually done by taking the verse out of context, assuming meanings of words with false definitions and doctrines, ignoring what salvation really means, or by not rightly dividing the word of truth (see 2 Timothy 2:15) They may be confusing statements made to a different people, for a different time, about a different subject. They may even be using a new Bible version with a corrupt reading. In love, in Christ, in meekness Mark You might be interested to know that the rest of the apostles went to the Gentiles also. Not after the agreement in Galatians 2. So you are wrong. Galatians 2:7-9 7 But contrariwise, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me, as the gospel of the circumcision was unto Peter; 8 (For he that wrought effectually in Peter to the apostleship of the circumcision, the same was mighty in me toward the Gentiles 9 And when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given unto me, they gave to me and Barnabas the right hands of fellowship; that we should go unto the heathen, and they unto the circumcision. From the following verses, it is God’s will, that Paul is the apostle of the Gentiles and that it is through his writings, which he got by direct revelation from the Lord Jesus Christ, that the gospel of salvation is to be preached to the Gentiles. Romans 11:13 For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office: Romans 15:16 That I should be the minister of Jesus Christ to the Gentiles, ministering the gospel of God, that the offering up of the Gentiles might be acceptable, being sanctified by the Holy Ghost. 2 Timothy 4:17 Notwithstanding the Lord stood with me, and strengthened me; that by me the preaching might be fully known, and that all the Gentiles might hear: and I was delivered out of the mouth of the lion. Paul preaches, defends, and declares the gospel of salvation through his writings. Romans 1:15 So, as much as in me is, I am ready to preach the gospel to you that are at Rome also. Philippians 1:17 But the other of love, knowing that I am set for the defence of the gospel. 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 1Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand; 2By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain. 3For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; 4And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: It is the gospel of salvation that Paul preaches through his writings that are the very basis of God’s judgment. Romans 2:16 In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel. From the next verse it is obvious that all who believe the gospel of Christ are saved. No other requirement in mentioned. Romans 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. We are commanded to rightly dividing the word of truth. Everyone divides the word of truth (the Holy Bible) in some manner. The question is what method is the correct way. For example no one dwells in booths for the feast of tabernacles (see Leviticus 23:42). Most people correctly recognize that the ceremonial laws, the feast days, the Levitical priesthood, the tabernacle care, the dietary restrictions, and the sacrificial parts of the Old Testament law do not apply to us the saved Gentiles since we are under the New Testament. Thus they rightly divide out these commands as not applying to Christians today. 2 Timothy 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. But right division also eliminates parts of the New Testament. For example nobody does the following. Mark 16:18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover. Not many do the following either. Acts 4:34 Neither was there any among them that lacked: for as many as were possessors of lands or houses sold them, and brought the prices of the things that were sold, Rightly dividing the word of truth means to accept that Paul is the apostle of the Gentiles and that his writings declare, defend and preach the gospel of salvation. We are to consider what Paul writes. 2 Timothy 2:7-8 7 Consider what I say; and the Lord give thee understanding in all things. 8 Remember that Jesus Christ of the seed of David was raised from the dead according to my gospel: Paul got the gospel he preaches directly from Jesus Christ (equivalent to words in red). Galatians 1:11-12,15-16 11But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man. 12For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ. 15But when it pleased God, who separated me from my mother's womb, and called me by his grace, 16To reveal his Son in me, that I might preach him among the heathen; immediately I conferred not with flesh and blood: NOTE that the apostles agreed that Paul is to preach the gospel to the Gentiles. Galatians 2:7-9 7 But contrariwise, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me, as the gospel of the circumcision was unto Peter; 8 (For he that wrought effectually in Peter to the apostleship of the circumcision, the same was mighty in me toward the Gentiles:) 9 And when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given unto me, they gave to me and Barnabas the right hands of fellowship; that we should go unto the heathen, and they unto the circumcision. Jesus Christ chose Paul for this task. Acts 9:15 But the Lord said unto him, Go thy way: for he is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel: You might want to look at history. What HIS-story are we talking about? Satan's lies? The Holy Bible is the only source of truth. You have just refuted yourself, because you have admitted that the Holy Bible does not support your theory. Ok, so everything outside the Bible is a lie? If that is the case why should I listen to you, what you say is outside of the Bible? Now you are being silly. I just put scripture up. I make comments about scripture. Everybody does that. I do use a lot of scripture though and make less comments. But I do discuss scripture, not supposed history from supposed early church fathers. History is HIS-story. It is whatever survived. But Paul in his epistles gives quite a bit of history. If you look in epistles, there were already heresies abounding by circa 40 AD. So how do you know some history is not already promoting heresies. It is simple, just read Paul's epistles. As Paul wrote: 2 Timothy 2:7 Consider what I say; and the Lord give thee understanding in all things. I'm being silly? Posting a hundred verses doesn't prove a point. All it shows is that you know where those verses are. If they are not in context they have no meaning. The Bible doesn't tell us what happened to the apostles. Paul's travels are somewhat recorded, however there were 12 other apostles, what did they do? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkNigro Posted September 10, 2013 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 12 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 428 Content Per Day: 0.11 Reputation: 61 Days Won: 3 Joined: 07/10/2013 Status: Offline Author Share Posted September 10, 2013 The Holy Bible is quite clear that works of any kind do not save. In fact, the Holy Bible emphatically states that if someone is trying to earn salvation by works or merit, that person will not get saved till they repent (change their mind) and cease trying to earn salvation. Works done for salvation mean no salvation. They mock Christ’s sacrifice on the cross. Paul is the apostle of the Gentiles, and it is the will of Jesus Christ that the Gentiles are to hear the gospel from Paul’s letters. Romans 11:13 For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office: Romans 15:16 That I should be the minister of Jesus Christ to the Gentiles, ministering the gospel of God, that the offering up of the Gentiles might be acceptable, being sanctified by the Holy Ghost. 2 Timothy 4:17 Notwithstanding the Lord stood with me, and strengthened me; that by me the preaching might be fully known, and that all the Gentiles might hear: and I was delivered out of the mouth of the lion. Romans 2:16 In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel. When asked what is required for salvation here is what Paul and Silas said. Acts 16:30-31 30 And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved? 31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house. When asked “what must I do to be saved” Paul only mentions “believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved.” He never mentions works, so it is not required. In the following passages Paul clearly states that trying to do works for salvation means no salvation. Romans 4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness. The following passage says that we are saved by grace through faith and not works. Ephesians 2:8-9 8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast. The following passages say if it is works it is no more grace. But we are only saved by grace. Therefore, works means no salvation at all. Romans 11:6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work. Here are more passages from Paul. Titus 1:16 They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate. Titus 3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; Hebrews 4:10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his. Hebrews 6:1 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God, So there is no passage from Paul that says works are required for salvation. There are a number that say works mean no salvation. There are many passages where Paul says that faith or belief in Jesus Christ is salvation, and since it is the only thing mentioned it must be through faith alone and not works. Here are just a few. Romans 4:3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness. Galatians 3:6 Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness. Romans 1:17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith. Galatians 3:11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith. Hebrews 10:38 Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him. Romans 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. Romans 3:22-26 22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference: 23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; 24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: 25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; 26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus. Christ Jesus the Lord shows that there is only one thing needed for salvation. They wanted to know the works (plural), that is, the entire list. Jesus listed the only thing allowed faith. Any other work for salvation is not of God. John 6:28-29 28 Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God? 29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent. In the next passage Jesus Christ says that to be saved you only need to believe on the Lord Jesus Christ. It works were required then the statement is false. It would have said: he that believes on me and does good works. Since it does not mention works, it has to be by belief alone. Furthermore, if a person does not believe what Jesus says, then they have not believed on the Lord Jesus Christ. Therefore, according to Jesus Christ, a person trusting in works or merit for salvation is not saved. Thus John 6:47 is a faith alone statement which excludes works. Furthermore it is an eternal security statement (once saved always saved) since to have everlasting life means you could never be damned, unless it would say might have everlasting life. Thus Jesus declares that works are not needed to maintain salvation either. The double verily makes this simple to understand statement emphatic. John 6:47 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life. There are many passages (probably over 200) where only faith or belief in Jesus Christ is what saves. The same logic above applies to each of these statements. John 3:14-18 14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: 15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. 16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. 17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. 18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. John 11:25-26 25 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: 26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this? John 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life. John 10:28-30 28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. 29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand. 30 I and my Father are one. The following passage shows that good works come after salvation (as a result of salvation) and not for salvation. Created in Christ Jesus means already saved. Unto good works shows that good works come after salvation (by God working in you). Notice it also says, “should” not must. So they are not required for salvation or to maintain salvation. Ephesians 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them. The above sampling absolutely proves that works are not needed for salvation. They also prove that eternal security (once saved always saved) is absolutely true. They are emphatic and quite clear. Since the Holy Bible has no contradictions, anything that someone thinks shows otherwise is just a mistaken interpretation. Many people assume a passage is talking about salvation/damnation when it is not. This is usually done by taking the verse out of context, assuming meanings of words with false definitions and doctrines, ignoring what salvation really means, or by not rightly dividing the word of truth (see 2 Timothy 2:15) They may be confusing statements made to a different people, for a different time, about a different subject. They may even be using a new Bible version with a corrupt reading. In love, in Christ, in meekness Mark You might be interested to know that the rest of the apostles went to the Gentiles also. Not after the agreement in Galatians 2. So you are wrong. Galatians 2:7-9 7 But contrariwise, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me, as the gospel of the circumcision was unto Peter; 8 (For he that wrought effectually in Peter to the apostleship of the circumcision, the same was mighty in me toward the Gentiles 9 And when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given unto me, they gave to me and Barnabas the right hands of fellowship; that we should go unto the heathen, and they unto the circumcision. From the following verses, it is God’s will, that Paul is the apostle of the Gentiles and that it is through his writings, which he got by direct revelation from the Lord Jesus Christ, that the gospel of salvation is to be preached to the Gentiles. Romans 11:13 For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office: Romans 15:16 That I should be the minister of Jesus Christ to the Gentiles, ministering the gospel of God, that the offering up of the Gentiles might be acceptable, being sanctified by the Holy Ghost. 2 Timothy 4:17 Notwithstanding the Lord stood with me, and strengthened me; that by me the preaching might be fully known, and that all the Gentiles might hear: and I was delivered out of the mouth of the lion. Paul preaches, defends, and declares the gospel of salvation through his writings. Romans 1:15 So, as much as in me is, I am ready to preach the gospel to you that are at Rome also. Philippians 1:17 But the other of love, knowing that I am set for the defence of the gospel. 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 1Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand; 2By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain. 3For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; 4And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: It is the gospel of salvation that Paul preaches through his writings that are the very basis of God’s judgment. Romans 2:16 In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel. From the next verse it is obvious that all who believe the gospel of Christ are saved. No other requirement in mentioned. Romans 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. We are commanded to rightly dividing the word of truth. Everyone divides the word of truth (the Holy Bible) in some manner. The question is what method is the correct way. For example no one dwells in booths for the feast of tabernacles (see Leviticus 23:42). Most people correctly recognize that the ceremonial laws, the feast days, the Levitical priesthood, the tabernacle care, the dietary restrictions, and the sacrificial parts of the Old Testament law do not apply to us the saved Gentiles since we are under the New Testament. Thus they rightly divide out these commands as not applying to Christians today. 2 Timothy 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. But right division also eliminates parts of the New Testament. For example nobody does the following. Mark 16:18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover. Not many do the following either. Acts 4:34 Neither was there any among them that lacked: for as many as were possessors of lands or houses sold them, and brought the prices of the things that were sold, Rightly dividing the word of truth means to accept that Paul is the apostle of the Gentiles and that his writings declare, defend and preach the gospel of salvation. We are to consider what Paul writes. 2 Timothy 2:7-8 7 Consider what I say; and the Lord give thee understanding in all things. 8 Remember that Jesus Christ of the seed of David was raised from the dead according to my gospel: Paul got the gospel he preaches directly from Jesus Christ (equivalent to words in red). Galatians 1:11-12,15-16 11But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man. 12For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ. 15But when it pleased God, who separated me from my mother's womb, and called me by his grace, 16To reveal his Son in me, that I might preach him among the heathen; immediately I conferred not with flesh and blood: NOTE that the apostles agreed that Paul is to preach the gospel to the Gentiles. Galatians 2:7-9 7 But contrariwise, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me, as the gospel of the circumcision was unto Peter; 8 (For he that wrought effectually in Peter to the apostleship of the circumcision, the same was mighty in me toward the Gentiles:) 9 And when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given unto me, they gave to me and Barnabas the right hands of fellowship; that we should go unto the heathen, and they unto the circumcision. Jesus Christ chose Paul for this task. Acts 9:15 But the Lord said unto him, Go thy way: for he is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel: You might want to look at history. What HIS-story are we talking about? Satan's lies? The Holy Bible is the only source of truth. You have just refuted yourself, because you have admitted that the Holy Bible does not support your theory. Ok, so everything outside the Bible is a lie? If that is the case why should I listen to you, what you say is outside of the Bible? Now you are being silly. I just put scripture up. I make comments about scripture. Everybody does that. I do use a lot of scripture though and make less comments. But I do discuss scripture, not supposed history from supposed early church fathers. History is HIS-story. It is whatever survived. But Paul in his epistles gives quite a bit of history. If you look in epistles, there were already heresies abounding by circa 40 AD. So how do you know some history is not already promoting heresies. It is simple, just read Paul's epistles. As Paul wrote: 2 Timothy 2:7 Consider what I say; and the Lord give thee understanding in all things. I'm being silly? Posting a hundred verses doesn't prove a point. All it shows is that you know where those verses are. If they are not in context they have no meaning. The Bible doesn't tell us what happened to the apostles. Paul's travels are somewhat recorded, however there were 12 other apostles, what did they do? Paul is the apostles of the Gentiles. He was put to death. As to the others: James killed by Herod's decree. Peter killed by crucifixion. John exiled on Patmos. Do not know from the Holy Bible anything else. Paul to the Gentiles, the others were supposed to go to the circumcision. As to all the verses I post, it is just because the scripture and I agree. You do not have much because you and the scriptures do not agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butch5 Posted September 10, 2013 Group: Senior Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 0 Topics Per Day: 0 Content Count: 559 Content Per Day: 0.14 Reputation: 136 Days Won: 2 Joined: 09/09/2013 Status: Offline Birthday: 03/01/1962 Share Posted September 10, 2013 The Holy Bible is quite clear that works of any kind do not save. In fact, the Holy Bible emphatically states that if someone is trying to earn salvation by works or merit, that person will not get saved till they repent (change their mind) and cease trying to earn salvation. Works done for salvation mean no salvation. They mock Christ’s sacrifice on the cross. Paul is the apostle of the Gentiles, and it is the will of Jesus Christ that the Gentiles are to hear the gospel from Paul’s letters. Romans 11:13 For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office: Romans 15:16 That I should be the minister of Jesus Christ to the Gentiles, ministering the gospel of God, that the offering up of the Gentiles might be acceptable, being sanctified by the Holy Ghost. 2 Timothy 4:17 Notwithstanding the Lord stood with me, and strengthened me; that by me the preaching might be fully known, and that all the Gentiles might hear: and I was delivered out of the mouth of the lion. Romans 2:16 In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel. When asked what is required for salvation here is what Paul and Silas said. Acts 16:30-31 30 And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved? 31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house. When asked “what must I do to be saved” Paul only mentions “believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved.” He never mentions works, so it is not required. In the following passages Paul clearly states that trying to do works for salvation means no salvation. Romans 4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness. The following passage says that we are saved by grace through faith and not works. Ephesians 2:8-9 8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast. The following passages say if it is works it is no more grace. But we are only saved by grace. Therefore, works means no salvation at all. Romans 11:6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work. Here are more passages from Paul. Titus 1:16 They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate. Titus 3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; Hebrews 4:10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his. Hebrews 6:1 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God, So there is no passage from Paul that says works are required for salvation. There are a number that say works mean no salvation. There are many passages where Paul says that faith or belief in Jesus Christ is salvation, and since it is the only thing mentioned it must be through faith alone and not works. Here are just a few. Romans 4:3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness. Galatians 3:6 Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness. Romans 1:17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith. Galatians 3:11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith. Hebrews 10:38 Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him. Romans 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. Romans 3:22-26 22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference: 23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; 24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: 25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; 26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus. Christ Jesus the Lord shows that there is only one thing needed for salvation. They wanted to know the works (plural), that is, the entire list. Jesus listed the only thing allowed faith. Any other work for salvation is not of God. John 6:28-29 28 Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God? 29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent. In the next passage Jesus Christ says that to be saved you only need to believe on the Lord Jesus Christ. It works were required then the statement is false. It would have said: he that believes on me and does good works. Since it does not mention works, it has to be by belief alone. Furthermore, if a person does not believe what Jesus says, then they have not believed on the Lord Jesus Christ. Therefore, according to Jesus Christ, a person trusting in works or merit for salvation is not saved. Thus John 6:47 is a faith alone statement which excludes works. Furthermore it is an eternal security statement (once saved always saved) since to have everlasting life means you could never be damned, unless it would say might have everlasting life. Thus Jesus declares that works are not needed to maintain salvation either. The double verily makes this simple to understand statement emphatic. John 6:47 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life. There are many passages (probably over 200) where only faith or belief in Jesus Christ is what saves. The same logic above applies to each of these statements. John 3:14-18 14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: 15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. 16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. 17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. 18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. John 11:25-26 25 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: 26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this? John 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life. John 10:28-30 28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. 29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand. 30 I and my Father are one. The following passage shows that good works come after salvation (as a result of salvation) and not for salvation. Created in Christ Jesus means already saved. Unto good works shows that good works come after salvation (by God working in you). Notice it also says, “should” not must. So they are not required for salvation or to maintain salvation. Ephesians 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them. The above sampling absolutely proves that works are not needed for salvation. They also prove that eternal security (once saved always saved) is absolutely true. They are emphatic and quite clear. Since the Holy Bible has no contradictions, anything that someone thinks shows otherwise is just a mistaken interpretation. Many people assume a passage is talking about salvation/damnation when it is not. This is usually done by taking the verse out of context, assuming meanings of words with false definitions and doctrines, ignoring what salvation really means, or by not rightly dividing the word of truth (see 2 Timothy 2:15) They may be confusing statements made to a different people, for a different time, about a different subject. They may even be using a new Bible version with a corrupt reading. In love, in Christ, in meekness Mark You might be interested to know that the rest of the apostles went to the Gentiles also. Not after the agreement in Galatians 2. So you are wrong. Galatians 2:7-9 7 But contrariwise, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me, as the gospel of the circumcision was unto Peter; 8 (For he that wrought effectually in Peter to the apostleship of the circumcision, the same was mighty in me toward the Gentiles 9 And when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given unto me, they gave to me and Barnabas the right hands of fellowship; that we should go unto the heathen, and they unto the circumcision. From the following verses, it is God’s will, that Paul is the apostle of the Gentiles and that it is through his writings, which he got by direct revelation from the Lord Jesus Christ, that the gospel of salvation is to be preached to the Gentiles. Romans 11:13 For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office: Romans 15:16 That I should be the minister of Jesus Christ to the Gentiles, ministering the gospel of God, that the offering up of the Gentiles might be acceptable, being sanctified by the Holy Ghost. 2 Timothy 4:17 Notwithstanding the Lord stood with me, and strengthened me; that by me the preaching might be fully known, and that all the Gentiles might hear: and I was delivered out of the mouth of the lion. Paul preaches, defends, and declares the gospel of salvation through his writings. Romans 1:15 So, as much as in me is, I am ready to preach the gospel to you that are at Rome also. Philippians 1:17 But the other of love, knowing that I am set for the defence of the gospel. 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 1Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand; 2By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain. 3For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; 4And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: It is the gospel of salvation that Paul preaches through his writings that are the very basis of God’s judgment. Romans 2:16 In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel. From the next verse it is obvious that all who believe the gospel of Christ are saved. No other requirement in mentioned. Romans 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. We are commanded to rightly dividing the word of truth. Everyone divides the word of truth (the Holy Bible) in some manner. The question is what method is the correct way. For example no one dwells in booths for the feast of tabernacles (see Leviticus 23:42). Most people correctly recognize that the ceremonial laws, the feast days, the Levitical priesthood, the tabernacle care, the dietary restrictions, and the sacrificial parts of the Old Testament law do not apply to us the saved Gentiles since we are under the New Testament. Thus they rightly divide out these commands as not applying to Christians today. 2 Timothy 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. But right division also eliminates parts of the New Testament. For example nobody does the following. Mark 16:18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover. Not many do the following either. Acts 4:34 Neither was there any among them that lacked: for as many as were possessors of lands or houses sold them, and brought the prices of the things that were sold, Rightly dividing the word of truth means to accept that Paul is the apostle of the Gentiles and that his writings declare, defend and preach the gospel of salvation. We are to consider what Paul writes. 2 Timothy 2:7-8 7 Consider what I say; and the Lord give thee understanding in all things. 8 Remember that Jesus Christ of the seed of David was raised from the dead according to my gospel: Paul got the gospel he preaches directly from Jesus Christ (equivalent to words in red). Galatians 1:11-12,15-16 11But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man. 12For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ. 15But when it pleased God, who separated me from my mother's womb, and called me by his grace, 16To reveal his Son in me, that I might preach him among the heathen; immediately I conferred not with flesh and blood: NOTE that the apostles agreed that Paul is to preach the gospel to the Gentiles. Galatians 2:7-9 7 But contrariwise, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me, as the gospel of the circumcision was unto Peter; 8 (For he that wrought effectually in Peter to the apostleship of the circumcision, the same was mighty in me toward the Gentiles:) 9 And when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given unto me, they gave to me and Barnabas the right hands of fellowship; that we should go unto the heathen, and they unto the circumcision. Jesus Christ chose Paul for this task. Acts 9:15 But the Lord said unto him, Go thy way: for he is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel: You might want to look at history. What HIS-story are we talking about? Satan's lies? The Holy Bible is the only source of truth. You have just refuted yourself, because you have admitted that the Holy Bible does not support your theory. Ok, so everything outside the Bible is a lie? If that is the case why should I listen to you, what you say is outside of the Bible? Now you are being silly. I just put scripture up. I make comments about scripture. Everybody does that. I do use a lot of scripture though and make less comments. But I do discuss scripture, not supposed history from supposed early church fathers. History is HIS-story. It is whatever survived. But Paul in his epistles gives quite a bit of history. If you look in epistles, there were already heresies abounding by circa 40 AD. So how do you know some history is not already promoting heresies. It is simple, just read Paul's epistles. As Paul wrote: 2 Timothy 2:7 Consider what I say; and the Lord give thee understanding in all things. I'm being silly? Posting a hundred verses doesn't prove a point. All it shows is that you know where those verses are. If they are not in context they have no meaning. The Bible doesn't tell us what happened to the apostles. Paul's travels are somewhat recorded, however there were 12 other apostles, what did they do? Paul is the apostles of the Gentiles. He was put to death. As to the others: James killed by Herod's decree. Peter killed by crucifixion. John exiled on Patmos. Do not know from the Holy Bible anything else. Paul to the Gentiles, the others were supposed to go to the circumcision. As to all the verses I post, it is just because the scripture and I agree. You do not have much because you and the scriptures do not agree. They went to the Gentiles just like Jesus told them to do. Regarding the Scriptures, just because you post them doesn't mean they say what you think they say. I can take a sentence out of just about any book and say it means this or it means that. Unless you believe there are errors in the Scriptures one passage that opposes your position is enough to prove it wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkNigro Posted September 10, 2013 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 12 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 428 Content Per Day: 0.11 Reputation: 61 Days Won: 3 Joined: 07/10/2013 Status: Offline Author Share Posted September 10, 2013 The Holy Bible is quite clear that works of any kind do not save. In fact, the Holy Bible emphatically states that if someone is trying to earn salvation by works or merit, that person will not get saved till they repent (change their mind) and cease trying to earn salvation. Works done for salvation mean no salvation. They mock Christ’s sacrifice on the cross. Paul is the apostle of the Gentiles, and it is the will of Jesus Christ that the Gentiles are to hear the gospel from Paul’s letters. Romans 11:13 For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office: Romans 15:16 That I should be the minister of Jesus Christ to the Gentiles, ministering the gospel of God, that the offering up of the Gentiles might be acceptable, being sanctified by the Holy Ghost. 2 Timothy 4:17 Notwithstanding the Lord stood with me, and strengthened me; that by me the preaching might be fully known, and that all the Gentiles might hear: and I was delivered out of the mouth of the lion. Romans 2:16 In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel. When asked what is required for salvation here is what Paul and Silas said. Acts 16:30-31 30 And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved? 31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house. When asked “what must I do to be saved” Paul only mentions “believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved.” He never mentions works, so it is not required. In the following passages Paul clearly states that trying to do works for salvation means no salvation. Romans 4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness. The following passage says that we are saved by grace through faith and not works. Ephesians 2:8-9 8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast. The following passages say if it is works it is no more grace. But we are only saved by grace. Therefore, works means no salvation at all. Romans 11:6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work. Here are more passages from Paul. Titus 1:16 They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate. Titus 3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; Hebrews 4:10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his. Hebrews 6:1 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God, So there is no passage from Paul that says works are required for salvation. There are a number that say works mean no salvation. There are many passages where Paul says that faith or belief in Jesus Christ is salvation, and since it is the only thing mentioned it must be through faith alone and not works. Here are just a few. Romans 4:3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness. Galatians 3:6 Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness. Romans 1:17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith. Galatians 3:11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith. Hebrews 10:38 Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him. Romans 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. Romans 3:22-26 22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference: 23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; 24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: 25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; 26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus. Christ Jesus the Lord shows that there is only one thing needed for salvation. They wanted to know the works (plural), that is, the entire list. Jesus listed the only thing allowed faith. Any other work for salvation is not of God. John 6:28-29 28 Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God? 29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent. In the next passage Jesus Christ says that to be saved you only need to believe on the Lord Jesus Christ. It works were required then the statement is false. It would have said: he that believes on me and does good works. Since it does not mention works, it has to be by belief alone. Furthermore, if a person does not believe what Jesus says, then they have not believed on the Lord Jesus Christ. Therefore, according to Jesus Christ, a person trusting in works or merit for salvation is not saved. Thus John 6:47 is a faith alone statement which excludes works. Furthermore it is an eternal security statement (once saved always saved) since to have everlasting life means you could never be damned, unless it would say might have everlasting life. Thus Jesus declares that works are not needed to maintain salvation either. The double verily makes this simple to understand statement emphatic. John 6:47 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life. There are many passages (probably over 200) where only faith or belief in Jesus Christ is what saves. The same logic above applies to each of these statements. John 3:14-18 14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: 15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. 16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. 17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. 18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. John 11:25-26 25 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: 26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this? John 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life. John 10:28-30 28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. 29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand. 30 I and my Father are one. The following passage shows that good works come after salvation (as a result of salvation) and not for salvation. Created in Christ Jesus means already saved. Unto good works shows that good works come after salvation (by God working in you). Notice it also says, “should” not must. So they are not required for salvation or to maintain salvation. Ephesians 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them. The above sampling absolutely proves that works are not needed for salvation. They also prove that eternal security (once saved always saved) is absolutely true. They are emphatic and quite clear. Since the Holy Bible has no contradictions, anything that someone thinks shows otherwise is just a mistaken interpretation. Many people assume a passage is talking about salvation/damnation when it is not. This is usually done by taking the verse out of context, assuming meanings of words with false definitions and doctrines, ignoring what salvation really means, or by not rightly dividing the word of truth (see 2 Timothy 2:15) They may be confusing statements made to a different people, for a different time, about a different subject. They may even be using a new Bible version with a corrupt reading. In love, in Christ, in meekness Mark You might be interested to know that the rest of the apostles went to the Gentiles also. Not after the agreement in Galatians 2. So you are wrong. Galatians 2:7-9 7 But contrariwise, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me, as the gospel of the circumcision was unto Peter; 8 (For he that wrought effectually in Peter to the apostleship of the circumcision, the same was mighty in me toward the Gentiles 9 And when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given unto me, they gave to me and Barnabas the right hands of fellowship; that we should go unto the heathen, and they unto the circumcision. From the following verses, it is God’s will, that Paul is the apostle of the Gentiles and that it is through his writings, which he got by direct revelation from the Lord Jesus Christ, that the gospel of salvation is to be preached to the Gentiles. Romans 11:13 For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office: Romans 15:16 That I should be the minister of Jesus Christ to the Gentiles, ministering the gospel of God, that the offering up of the Gentiles might be acceptable, being sanctified by the Holy Ghost. 2 Timothy 4:17 Notwithstanding the Lord stood with me, and strengthened me; that by me the preaching might be fully known, and that all the Gentiles might hear: and I was delivered out of the mouth of the lion. Paul preaches, defends, and declares the gospel of salvation through his writings. Romans 1:15 So, as much as in me is, I am ready to preach the gospel to you that are at Rome also. Philippians 1:17 But the other of love, knowing that I am set for the defence of the gospel. 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 1Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand; 2By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain. 3For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; 4And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: It is the gospel of salvation that Paul preaches through his writings that are the very basis of God’s judgment. Romans 2:16 In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel. From the next verse it is obvious that all who believe the gospel of Christ are saved. No other requirement in mentioned. Romans 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. We are commanded to rightly dividing the word of truth. Everyone divides the word of truth (the Holy Bible) in some manner. The question is what method is the correct way. For example no one dwells in booths for the feast of tabernacles (see Leviticus 23:42). Most people correctly recognize that the ceremonial laws, the feast days, the Levitical priesthood, the tabernacle care, the dietary restrictions, and the sacrificial parts of the Old Testament law do not apply to us the saved Gentiles since we are under the New Testament. Thus they rightly divide out these commands as not applying to Christians today. 2 Timothy 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. But right division also eliminates parts of the New Testament. For example nobody does the following. Mark 16:18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover. Not many do the following either. Acts 4:34 Neither was there any among them that lacked: for as many as were possessors of lands or houses sold them, and brought the prices of the things that were sold, Rightly dividing the word of truth means to accept that Paul is the apostle of the Gentiles and that his writings declare, defend and preach the gospel of salvation. We are to consider what Paul writes. 2 Timothy 2:7-8 7 Consider what I say; and the Lord give thee understanding in all things. 8 Remember that Jesus Christ of the seed of David was raised from the dead according to my gospel: Paul got the gospel he preaches directly from Jesus Christ (equivalent to words in red). Galatians 1:11-12,15-16 11But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man. 12For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ. 15But when it pleased God, who separated me from my mother's womb, and called me by his grace, 16To reveal his Son in me, that I might preach him among the heathen; immediately I conferred not with flesh and blood: NOTE that the apostles agreed that Paul is to preach the gospel to the Gentiles. Galatians 2:7-9 7 But contrariwise, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me, as the gospel of the circumcision was unto Peter; 8 (For he that wrought effectually in Peter to the apostleship of the circumcision, the same was mighty in me toward the Gentiles:) 9 And when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given unto me, they gave to me and Barnabas the right hands of fellowship; that we should go unto the heathen, and they unto the circumcision. Jesus Christ chose Paul for this task. Acts 9:15 But the Lord said unto him, Go thy way: for he is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel: You might want to look at history. What HIS-story are we talking about? Satan's lies? The Holy Bible is the only source of truth. You have just refuted yourself, because you have admitted that the Holy Bible does not support your theory. Ok, so everything outside the Bible is a lie? If that is the case why should I listen to you, what you say is outside of the Bible? Now you are being silly. I just put scripture up. I make comments about scripture. Everybody does that. I do use a lot of scripture though and make less comments. But I do discuss scripture, not supposed history from supposed early church fathers. History is HIS-story. It is whatever survived. But Paul in his epistles gives quite a bit of history. If you look in epistles, there were already heresies abounding by circa 40 AD. So how do you know some history is not already promoting heresies. It is simple, just read Paul's epistles. As Paul wrote: 2 Timothy 2:7 Consider what I say; and the Lord give thee understanding in all things. I'm being silly? Posting a hundred verses doesn't prove a point. All it shows is that you know where those verses are. If they are not in context they have no meaning. The Bible doesn't tell us what happened to the apostles. Paul's travels are somewhat recorded, however there were 12 other apostles, what did they do? Paul is the apostles of the Gentiles. He was put to death. As to the others: James killed by Herod's decree. Peter killed by crucifixion. John exiled on Patmos. Do not know from the Holy Bible anything else. Paul to the Gentiles, the others were supposed to go to the circumcision. As to all the verses I post, it is just because the scripture and I agree. You do not have much because you and the scriptures do not agree. They went to the Gentiles just like Jesus told them to do. Regarding the Scriptures, just because you post them doesn't mean they say what you think they say. I can take a sentence out of just about any book and say it means this or it means that. Unless you believe there are errors in the Scriptures one passage that opposes your position is enough to prove it wrong. They did not go to the Gentiles till Peter was sent. That is plain from scripture. In fact, until then they did not even know the Gentiles could be saved. See Acts 10-11 and other passages. Besides in Galatians 2 they all agreed that Paul is the apostle of the Gentiles. That is the problem. You take a passage out of context, add your own interpretation by adding words or giving a false definition, and claim that that shows the very many passages I give as wrong. Jesus Christ warned about that. Matthew 23:24 Ye blind guides, which strain at a gnat, and swallow a camel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butch5 Posted September 10, 2013 Group: Senior Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 0 Topics Per Day: 0 Content Count: 559 Content Per Day: 0.14 Reputation: 136 Days Won: 2 Joined: 09/09/2013 Status: Offline Birthday: 03/01/1962 Share Posted September 10, 2013 The Holy Bible is quite clear that works of any kind do not save. In fact, the Holy Bible emphatically states that if someone is trying to earn salvation by works or merit, that person will not get saved till they repent (change their mind) and cease trying to earn salvation. Works done for salvation mean no salvation. They mock Christ’s sacrifice on the cross. Paul is the apostle of the Gentiles, and it is the will of Jesus Christ that the Gentiles are to hear the gospel from Paul’s letters. Romans 11:13 For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office: Romans 15:16 That I should be the minister of Jesus Christ to the Gentiles, ministering the gospel of God, that the offering up of the Gentiles might be acceptable, being sanctified by the Holy Ghost. 2 Timothy 4:17 Notwithstanding the Lord stood with me, and strengthened me; that by me the preaching might be fully known, and that all the Gentiles might hear: and I was delivered out of the mouth of the lion. Romans 2:16 In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel. When asked what is required for salvation here is what Paul and Silas said. Acts 16:30-31 30 And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved? 31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house. When asked “what must I do to be saved” Paul only mentions “believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved.” He never mentions works, so it is not required. In the following passages Paul clearly states that trying to do works for salvation means no salvation. Romans 4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness. The following passage says that we are saved by grace through faith and not works. Ephesians 2:8-9 8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast. The following passages say if it is works it is no more grace. But we are only saved by grace. Therefore, works means no salvation at all. Romans 11:6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work. Here are more passages from Paul. Titus 1:16 They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate. Titus 3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; Hebrews 4:10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his. Hebrews 6:1 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God, So there is no passage from Paul that says works are required for salvation. There are a number that say works mean no salvation. There are many passages where Paul says that faith or belief in Jesus Christ is salvation, and since it is the only thing mentioned it must be through faith alone and not works. Here are just a few. Romans 4:3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness. Galatians 3:6 Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness. Romans 1:17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith. Galatians 3:11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith. Hebrews 10:38 Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him. Romans 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. Romans 3:22-26 22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference: 23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; 24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: 25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; 26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus. Christ Jesus the Lord shows that there is only one thing needed for salvation. They wanted to know the works (plural), that is, the entire list. Jesus listed the only thing allowed faith. Any other work for salvation is not of God. John 6:28-29 28 Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God? 29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent. In the next passage Jesus Christ says that to be saved you only need to believe on the Lord Jesus Christ. It works were required then the statement is false. It would have said: he that believes on me and does good works. Since it does not mention works, it has to be by belief alone. Furthermore, if a person does not believe what Jesus says, then they have not believed on the Lord Jesus Christ. Therefore, according to Jesus Christ, a person trusting in works or merit for salvation is not saved. Thus John 6:47 is a faith alone statement which excludes works. Furthermore it is an eternal security statement (once saved always saved) since to have everlasting life means you could never be damned, unless it would say might have everlasting life. Thus Jesus declares that works are not needed to maintain salvation either. The double verily makes this simple to understand statement emphatic. John 6:47 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life. There are many passages (probably over 200) where only faith or belief in Jesus Christ is what saves. The same logic above applies to each of these statements. John 3:14-18 14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: 15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. 16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. 17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. 18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. John 11:25-26 25 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: 26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this? John 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life. John 10:28-30 28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. 29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand. 30 I and my Father are one. The following passage shows that good works come after salvation (as a result of salvation) and not for salvation. Created in Christ Jesus means already saved. Unto good works shows that good works come after salvation (by God working in you). Notice it also says, “should” not must. So they are not required for salvation or to maintain salvation. Ephesians 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them. The above sampling absolutely proves that works are not needed for salvation. They also prove that eternal security (once saved always saved) is absolutely true. They are emphatic and quite clear. Since the Holy Bible has no contradictions, anything that someone thinks shows otherwise is just a mistaken interpretation. Many people assume a passage is talking about salvation/damnation when it is not. This is usually done by taking the verse out of context, assuming meanings of words with false definitions and doctrines, ignoring what salvation really means, or by not rightly dividing the word of truth (see 2 Timothy 2:15) They may be confusing statements made to a different people, for a different time, about a different subject. They may even be using a new Bible version with a corrupt reading. In love, in Christ, in meekness Mark You might be interested to know that the rest of the apostles went to the Gentiles also. Not after the agreement in Galatians 2. So you are wrong. Galatians 2:7-9 7 But contrariwise, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me, as the gospel of the circumcision was unto Peter; 8 (For he that wrought effectually in Peter to the apostleship of the circumcision, the same was mighty in me toward the Gentiles 9 And when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given unto me, they gave to me and Barnabas the right hands of fellowship; that we should go unto the heathen, and they unto the circumcision. From the following verses, it is God’s will, that Paul is the apostle of the Gentiles and that it is through his writings, which he got by direct revelation from the Lord Jesus Christ, that the gospel of salvation is to be preached to the Gentiles. Romans 11:13 For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office: Romans 15:16 That I should be the minister of Jesus Christ to the Gentiles, ministering the gospel of God, that the offering up of the Gentiles might be acceptable, being sanctified by the Holy Ghost. 2 Timothy 4:17 Notwithstanding the Lord stood with me, and strengthened me; that by me the preaching might be fully known, and that all the Gentiles might hear: and I was delivered out of the mouth of the lion. Paul preaches, defends, and declares the gospel of salvation through his writings. Romans 1:15 So, as much as in me is, I am ready to preach the gospel to you that are at Rome also. Philippians 1:17 But the other of love, knowing that I am set for the defence of the gospel. 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 1Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand; 2By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain. 3For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; 4And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: It is the gospel of salvation that Paul preaches through his writings that are the very basis of God’s judgment. Romans 2:16 In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel. From the next verse it is obvious that all who believe the gospel of Christ are saved. No other requirement in mentioned. Romans 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. We are commanded to rightly dividing the word of truth. Everyone divides the word of truth (the Holy Bible) in some manner. The question is what method is the correct way. For example no one dwells in booths for the feast of tabernacles (see Leviticus 23:42). Most people correctly recognize that the ceremonial laws, the feast days, the Levitical priesthood, the tabernacle care, the dietary restrictions, and the sacrificial parts of the Old Testament law do not apply to us the saved Gentiles since we are under the New Testament. Thus they rightly divide out these commands as not applying to Christians today. 2 Timothy 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. But right division also eliminates parts of the New Testament. For example nobody does the following. Mark 16:18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover. Not many do the following either. Acts 4:34 Neither was there any among them that lacked: for as many as were possessors of lands or houses sold them, and brought the prices of the things that were sold, Rightly dividing the word of truth means to accept that Paul is the apostle of the Gentiles and that his writings declare, defend and preach the gospel of salvation. We are to consider what Paul writes. 2 Timothy 2:7-8 7 Consider what I say; and the Lord give thee understanding in all things. 8 Remember that Jesus Christ of the seed of David was raised from the dead according to my gospel: Paul got the gospel he preaches directly from Jesus Christ (equivalent to words in red). Galatians 1:11-12,15-16 11But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man. 12For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ. 15But when it pleased God, who separated me from my mother's womb, and called me by his grace, 16To reveal his Son in me, that I might preach him among the heathen; immediately I conferred not with flesh and blood: NOTE that the apostles agreed that Paul is to preach the gospel to the Gentiles. Galatians 2:7-9 7 But contrariwise, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me, as the gospel of the circumcision was unto Peter; 8 (For he that wrought effectually in Peter to the apostleship of the circumcision, the same was mighty in me toward the Gentiles:) 9 And when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given unto me, they gave to me and Barnabas the right hands of fellowship; that we should go unto the heathen, and they unto the circumcision. Jesus Christ chose Paul for this task. Acts 9:15 But the Lord said unto him, Go thy way: for he is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel: You might want to look at history. What HIS-story are we talking about? Satan's lies? The Holy Bible is the only source of truth. You have just refuted yourself, because you have admitted that the Holy Bible does not support your theory. Ok, so everything outside the Bible is a lie? If that is the case why should I listen to you, what you say is outside of the Bible? Now you are being silly. I just put scripture up. I make comments about scripture. Everybody does that. I do use a lot of scripture though and make less comments. But I do discuss scripture, not supposed history from supposed early church fathers. History is HIS-story. It is whatever survived. But Paul in his epistles gives quite a bit of history. If you look in epistles, there were already heresies abounding by circa 40 AD. So how do you know some history is not already promoting heresies. It is simple, just read Paul's epistles. As Paul wrote: 2 Timothy 2:7 Consider what I say; and the Lord give thee understanding in all things. I'm being silly? Posting a hundred verses doesn't prove a point. All it shows is that you know where those verses are. If they are not in context they have no meaning. The Bible doesn't tell us what happened to the apostles. Paul's travels are somewhat recorded, however there were 12 other apostles, what did they do? Paul is the apostles of the Gentiles. He was put to death. As to the others: James killed by Herod's decree. Peter killed by crucifixion. John exiled on Patmos. Do not know from the Holy Bible anything else. Paul to the Gentiles, the others were supposed to go to the circumcision. As to all the verses I post, it is just because the scripture and I agree. You do not have much because you and the scriptures do not agree. They went to the Gentiles just like Jesus told them to do. Regarding the Scriptures, just because you post them doesn't mean they say what you think they say. I can take a sentence out of just about any book and say it means this or it means that. Unless you believe there are errors in the Scriptures one passage that opposes your position is enough to prove it wrong. They did not go to the Gentiles till Peter was sent. That is plain from scripture. In fact, until then they did not even know the Gentiles could be saved. See Acts 10-11 and other passages. Besides in Galatians 2 they all agreed that Paul is the apostle of the Gentiles. That is the problem. You take a passage out of context, add your own interpretation by adding words or giving a false definition, and claim that that shows the very many passages I give as wrong. Jesus Christ warned about that. Matthew 23:24 Ye blind guides, which strain at a gnat, and swallow a camel. Dude, if anyone is taking Scriptures out of context it's not me. I'm not the one who's posting 30 or 40 passages of Scripture in a post devoid of the context in which they were written. I also never said the passages you posted were wrong. It's been my experience that when people post boatloads of Scripture without commentary they don't really know what the Scriptures teach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkNigro Posted September 10, 2013 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 12 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 428 Content Per Day: 0.11 Reputation: 61 Days Won: 3 Joined: 07/10/2013 Status: Offline Author Share Posted September 10, 2013 The Holy Bible is quite clear that works of any kind do not save. In fact, the Holy Bible emphatically states that if someone is trying to earn salvation by works or merit, that person will not get saved till they repent (change their mind) and cease trying to earn salvation. Works done for salvation mean no salvation. They mock Christ’s sacrifice on the cross. Paul is the apostle of the Gentiles, and it is the will of Jesus Christ that the Gentiles are to hear the gospel from Paul’s letters. Romans 11:13 For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office: Romans 15:16 That I should be the minister of Jesus Christ to the Gentiles, ministering the gospel of God, that the offering up of the Gentiles might be acceptable, being sanctified by the Holy Ghost. 2 Timothy 4:17 Notwithstanding the Lord stood with me, and strengthened me; that by me the preaching might be fully known, and that all the Gentiles might hear: and I was delivered out of the mouth of the lion. Romans 2:16 In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel. When asked what is required for salvation here is what Paul and Silas said. Acts 16:30-31 30 And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved? 31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house. When asked “what must I do to be saved” Paul only mentions “believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved.” He never mentions works, so it is not required. In the following passages Paul clearly states that trying to do works for salvation means no salvation. Romans 4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness. The following passage says that we are saved by grace through faith and not works. Ephesians 2:8-9 8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast. The following passages say if it is works it is no more grace. But we are only saved by grace. Therefore, works means no salvation at all. Romans 11:6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work. Here are more passages from Paul. Titus 1:16 They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate. Titus 3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; Hebrews 4:10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his. Hebrews 6:1 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God, So there is no passage from Paul that says works are required for salvation. There are a number that say works mean no salvation. There are many passages where Paul says that faith or belief in Jesus Christ is salvation, and since it is the only thing mentioned it must be through faith alone and not works. Here are just a few. Romans 4:3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness. Galatians 3:6 Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness. Romans 1:17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith. Galatians 3:11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith. Hebrews 10:38 Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him. Romans 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. Romans 3:22-26 22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference: 23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; 24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: 25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; 26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus. Christ Jesus the Lord shows that there is only one thing needed for salvation. They wanted to know the works (plural), that is, the entire list. Jesus listed the only thing allowed faith. Any other work for salvation is not of God. John 6:28-29 28 Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God? 29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent. In the next passage Jesus Christ says that to be saved you only need to believe on the Lord Jesus Christ. It works were required then the statement is false. It would have said: he that believes on me and does good works. Since it does not mention works, it has to be by belief alone. Furthermore, if a person does not believe what Jesus says, then they have not believed on the Lord Jesus Christ. Therefore, according to Jesus Christ, a person trusting in works or merit for salvation is not saved. Thus John 6:47 is a faith alone statement which excludes works. Furthermore it is an eternal security statement (once saved always saved) since to have everlasting life means you could never be damned, unless it would say might have everlasting life. Thus Jesus declares that works are not needed to maintain salvation either. The double verily makes this simple to understand statement emphatic. John 6:47 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life. There are many passages (probably over 200) where only faith or belief in Jesus Christ is what saves. The same logic above applies to each of these statements. John 3:14-18 14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: 15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. 16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. 17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. 18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. John 11:25-26 25 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: 26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this? John 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life. John 10:28-30 28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. 29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand. 30 I and my Father are one. The following passage shows that good works come after salvation (as a result of salvation) and not for salvation. Created in Christ Jesus means already saved. Unto good works shows that good works come after salvation (by God working in you). Notice it also says, “should” not must. So they are not required for salvation or to maintain salvation. Ephesians 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them. The above sampling absolutely proves that works are not needed for salvation. They also prove that eternal security (once saved always saved) is absolutely true. They are emphatic and quite clear. Since the Holy Bible has no contradictions, anything that someone thinks shows otherwise is just a mistaken interpretation. Many people assume a passage is talking about salvation/damnation when it is not. This is usually done by taking the verse out of context, assuming meanings of words with false definitions and doctrines, ignoring what salvation really means, or by not rightly dividing the word of truth (see 2 Timothy 2:15) They may be confusing statements made to a different people, for a different time, about a different subject. They may even be using a new Bible version with a corrupt reading. In love, in Christ, in meekness Mark You might be interested to know that the rest of the apostles went to the Gentiles also. Not after the agreement in Galatians 2. So you are wrong. Galatians 2:7-9 7 But contrariwise, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me, as the gospel of the circumcision was unto Peter; 8 (For he that wrought effectually in Peter to the apostleship of the circumcision, the same was mighty in me toward the Gentiles 9 And when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given unto me, they gave to me and Barnabas the right hands of fellowship; that we should go unto the heathen, and they unto the circumcision. From the following verses, it is God’s will, that Paul is the apostle of the Gentiles and that it is through his writings, which he got by direct revelation from the Lord Jesus Christ, that the gospel of salvation is to be preached to the Gentiles. Romans 11:13 For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office: Romans 15:16 That I should be the minister of Jesus Christ to the Gentiles, ministering the gospel of God, that the offering up of the Gentiles might be acceptable, being sanctified by the Holy Ghost. 2 Timothy 4:17 Notwithstanding the Lord stood with me, and strengthened me; that by me the preaching might be fully known, and that all the Gentiles might hear: and I was delivered out of the mouth of the lion. Paul preaches, defends, and declares the gospel of salvation through his writings. Romans 1:15 So, as much as in me is, I am ready to preach the gospel to you that are at Rome also. Philippians 1:17 But the other of love, knowing that I am set for the defence of the gospel. 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 1Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand; 2By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain. 3For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; 4And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: It is the gospel of salvation that Paul preaches through his writings that are the very basis of God’s judgment. Romans 2:16 In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel. From the next verse it is obvious that all who believe the gospel of Christ are saved. No other requirement in mentioned. Romans 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. We are commanded to rightly dividing the word of truth. Everyone divides the word of truth (the Holy Bible) in some manner. The question is what method is the correct way. For example no one dwells in booths for the feast of tabernacles (see Leviticus 23:42). Most people correctly recognize that the ceremonial laws, the feast days, the Levitical priesthood, the tabernacle care, the dietary restrictions, and the sacrificial parts of the Old Testament law do not apply to us the saved Gentiles since we are under the New Testament. Thus they rightly divide out these commands as not applying to Christians today. 2 Timothy 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. But right division also eliminates parts of the New Testament. For example nobody does the following. Mark 16:18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover. Not many do the following either. Acts 4:34 Neither was there any among them that lacked: for as many as were possessors of lands or houses sold them, and brought the prices of the things that were sold, Rightly dividing the word of truth means to accept that Paul is the apostle of the Gentiles and that his writings declare, defend and preach the gospel of salvation. We are to consider what Paul writes. 2 Timothy 2:7-8 7 Consider what I say; and the Lord give thee understanding in all things. 8 Remember that Jesus Christ of the seed of David was raised from the dead according to my gospel: Paul got the gospel he preaches directly from Jesus Christ (equivalent to words in red). Galatians 1:11-12,15-16 11But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man. 12For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ. 15But when it pleased God, who separated me from my mother's womb, and called me by his grace, 16To reveal his Son in me, that I might preach him among the heathen; immediately I conferred not with flesh and blood: NOTE that the apostles agreed that Paul is to preach the gospel to the Gentiles. Galatians 2:7-9 7 But contrariwise, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me, as the gospel of the circumcision was unto Peter; 8 (For he that wrought effectually in Peter to the apostleship of the circumcision, the same was mighty in me toward the Gentiles:) 9 And when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given unto me, they gave to me and Barnabas the right hands of fellowship; that we should go unto the heathen, and they unto the circumcision. Jesus Christ chose Paul for this task. Acts 9:15 But the Lord said unto him, Go thy way: for he is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel: You might want to look at history. What HIS-story are we talking about? Satan's lies? The Holy Bible is the only source of truth. You have just refuted yourself, because you have admitted that the Holy Bible does not support your theory. Ok, so everything outside the Bible is a lie? If that is the case why should I listen to you, what you say is outside of the Bible? Now you are being silly. I just put scripture up. I make comments about scripture. Everybody does that. I do use a lot of scripture though and make less comments. But I do discuss scripture, not supposed history from supposed early church fathers. History is HIS-story. It is whatever survived. But Paul in his epistles gives quite a bit of history. If you look in epistles, there were already heresies abounding by circa 40 AD. So how do you know some history is not already promoting heresies. It is simple, just read Paul's epistles. As Paul wrote: 2 Timothy 2:7 Consider what I say; and the Lord give thee understanding in all things. I'm being silly? Posting a hundred verses doesn't prove a point. All it shows is that you know where those verses are. If they are not in context they have no meaning. The Bible doesn't tell us what happened to the apostles. Paul's travels are somewhat recorded, however there were 12 other apostles, what did they do? Paul is the apostles of the Gentiles. He was put to death. As to the others: James killed by Herod's decree. Peter killed by crucifixion. John exiled on Patmos. Do not know from the Holy Bible anything else. Paul to the Gentiles, the others were supposed to go to the circumcision. As to all the verses I post, it is just because the scripture and I agree. You do not have much because you and the scriptures do not agree. They went to the Gentiles just like Jesus told them to do. Regarding the Scriptures, just because you post them doesn't mean they say what you think they say. I can take a sentence out of just about any book and say it means this or it means that. Unless you believe there are errors in the Scriptures one passage that opposes your position is enough to prove it wrong. They did not go to the Gentiles till Peter was sent. That is plain from scripture. In fact, until then they did not even know the Gentiles could be saved. See Acts 10-11 and other passages. Besides in Galatians 2 they all agreed that Paul is the apostle of the Gentiles. That is the problem. You take a passage out of context, add your own interpretation by adding words or giving a false definition, and claim that that shows the very many passages I give as wrong. Jesus Christ warned about that. Matthew 23:24 Ye blind guides, which strain at a gnat, and swallow a camel. Dude, if anyone is taking Scriptures out of context it's not me. I'm not the one who's posting 30 or 40 passages of Scripture in a post devoid of the context in which they were written. I also never said the passages you posted were wrong. It's been my experience that when people post boatloads of Scripture without commentary they don't really know what the Scriptures teach. I have noticed when people put a lot of commentary and little scripture, they are usually deceiving and show how little they value God's words. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butch5 Posted September 10, 2013 Group: Senior Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 0 Topics Per Day: 0 Content Count: 559 Content Per Day: 0.14 Reputation: 136 Days Won: 2 Joined: 09/09/2013 Status: Offline Birthday: 03/01/1962 Share Posted September 10, 2013 The Holy Bible is quite clear that works of any kind do not save. In fact, the Holy Bible emphatically states that if someone is trying to earn salvation by works or merit, that person will not get saved till they repent (change their mind) and cease trying to earn salvation. Works done for salvation mean no salvation. They mock Christ’s sacrifice on the cross. Paul is the apostle of the Gentiles, and it is the will of Jesus Christ that the Gentiles are to hear the gospel from Paul’s letters. Romans 11:13 For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office: Romans 15:16 That I should be the minister of Jesus Christ to the Gentiles, ministering the gospel of God, that the offering up of the Gentiles might be acceptable, being sanctified by the Holy Ghost. 2 Timothy 4:17 Notwithstanding the Lord stood with me, and strengthened me; that by me the preaching might be fully known, and that all the Gentiles might hear: and I was delivered out of the mouth of the lion. Romans 2:16 In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel. When asked what is required for salvation here is what Paul and Silas said. Acts 16:30-31 30 And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved? 31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house. When asked “what must I do to be saved” Paul only mentions “believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved.” He never mentions works, so it is not required. In the following passages Paul clearly states that trying to do works for salvation means no salvation. Romans 4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness. The following passage says that we are saved by grace through faith and not works. Ephesians 2:8-9 8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast. The following passages say if it is works it is no more grace. But we are only saved by grace. Therefore, works means no salvation at all. Romans 11:6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work. Here are more passages from Paul. Titus 1:16 They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate. Titus 3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; Hebrews 4:10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his. Hebrews 6:1 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God, So there is no passage from Paul that says works are required for salvation. There are a number that say works mean no salvation. There are many passages where Paul says that faith or belief in Jesus Christ is salvation, and since it is the only thing mentioned it must be through faith alone and not works. Here are just a few. Romans 4:3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness. Galatians 3:6 Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness. Romans 1:17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith. Galatians 3:11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith. Hebrews 10:38 Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him. Romans 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. Romans 3:22-26 22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference: 23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; 24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: 25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; 26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus. Christ Jesus the Lord shows that there is only one thing needed for salvation. They wanted to know the works (plural), that is, the entire list. Jesus listed the only thing allowed faith. Any other work for salvation is not of God. John 6:28-29 28 Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God? 29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent. In the next passage Jesus Christ says that to be saved you only need to believe on the Lord Jesus Christ. It works were required then the statement is false. It would have said: he that believes on me and does good works. Since it does not mention works, it has to be by belief alone. Furthermore, if a person does not believe what Jesus says, then they have not believed on the Lord Jesus Christ. Therefore, according to Jesus Christ, a person trusting in works or merit for salvation is not saved. Thus John 6:47 is a faith alone statement which excludes works. Furthermore it is an eternal security statement (once saved always saved) since to have everlasting life means you could never be damned, unless it would say might have everlasting life. Thus Jesus declares that works are not needed to maintain salvation either. The double verily makes this simple to understand statement emphatic. John 6:47 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life. There are many passages (probably over 200) where only faith or belief in Jesus Christ is what saves. The same logic above applies to each of these statements. John 3:14-18 14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: 15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. 16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. 17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. 18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. John 11:25-26 25 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: 26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this? John 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life. John 10:28-30 28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. 29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand. 30 I and my Father are one. The following passage shows that good works come after salvation (as a result of salvation) and not for salvation. Created in Christ Jesus means already saved. Unto good works shows that good works come after salvation (by God working in you). Notice it also says, “should” not must. So they are not required for salvation or to maintain salvation. Ephesians 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them. The above sampling absolutely proves that works are not needed for salvation. They also prove that eternal security (once saved always saved) is absolutely true. They are emphatic and quite clear. Since the Holy Bible has no contradictions, anything that someone thinks shows otherwise is just a mistaken interpretation. Many people assume a passage is talking about salvation/damnation when it is not. This is usually done by taking the verse out of context, assuming meanings of words with false definitions and doctrines, ignoring what salvation really means, or by not rightly dividing the word of truth (see 2 Timothy 2:15) They may be confusing statements made to a different people, for a different time, about a different subject. They may even be using a new Bible version with a corrupt reading. In love, in Christ, in meekness Mark You might be interested to know that the rest of the apostles went to the Gentiles also. Not after the agreement in Galatians 2. So you are wrong. Galatians 2:7-9 7 But contrariwise, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me, as the gospel of the circumcision was unto Peter; 8 (For he that wrought effectually in Peter to the apostleship of the circumcision, the same was mighty in me toward the Gentiles 9 And when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given unto me, they gave to me and Barnabas the right hands of fellowship; that we should go unto the heathen, and they unto the circumcision. From the following verses, it is God’s will, that Paul is the apostle of the Gentiles and that it is through his writings, which he got by direct revelation from the Lord Jesus Christ, that the gospel of salvation is to be preached to the Gentiles. Romans 11:13 For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office: Romans 15:16 That I should be the minister of Jesus Christ to the Gentiles, ministering the gospel of God, that the offering up of the Gentiles might be acceptable, being sanctified by the Holy Ghost. 2 Timothy 4:17 Notwithstanding the Lord stood with me, and strengthened me; that by me the preaching might be fully known, and that all the Gentiles might hear: and I was delivered out of the mouth of the lion. Paul preaches, defends, and declares the gospel of salvation through his writings. Romans 1:15 So, as much as in me is, I am ready to preach the gospel to you that are at Rome also. Philippians 1:17 But the other of love, knowing that I am set for the defence of the gospel. 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 1Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand; 2By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain. 3For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; 4And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: It is the gospel of salvation that Paul preaches through his writings that are the very basis of God’s judgment. Romans 2:16 In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel. From the next verse it is obvious that all who believe the gospel of Christ are saved. No other requirement in mentioned. Romans 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. We are commanded to rightly dividing the word of truth. Everyone divides the word of truth (the Holy Bible) in some manner. The question is what method is the correct way. For example no one dwells in booths for the feast of tabernacles (see Leviticus 23:42). Most people correctly recognize that the ceremonial laws, the feast days, the Levitical priesthood, the tabernacle care, the dietary restrictions, and the sacrificial parts of the Old Testament law do not apply to us the saved Gentiles since we are under the New Testament. Thus they rightly divide out these commands as not applying to Christians today. 2 Timothy 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. But right division also eliminates parts of the New Testament. For example nobody does the following. Mark 16:18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover. Not many do the following either. Acts 4:34 Neither was there any among them that lacked: for as many as were possessors of lands or houses sold them, and brought the prices of the things that were sold, Rightly dividing the word of truth means to accept that Paul is the apostle of the Gentiles and that his writings declare, defend and preach the gospel of salvation. We are to consider what Paul writes. 2 Timothy 2:7-8 7 Consider what I say; and the Lord give thee understanding in all things. 8 Remember that Jesus Christ of the seed of David was raised from the dead according to my gospel: Paul got the gospel he preaches directly from Jesus Christ (equivalent to words in red). Galatians 1:11-12,15-16 11But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man. 12For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ. 15But when it pleased God, who separated me from my mother's womb, and called me by his grace, 16To reveal his Son in me, that I might preach him among the heathen; immediately I conferred not with flesh and blood: NOTE that the apostles agreed that Paul is to preach the gospel to the Gentiles. Galatians 2:7-9 7 But contrariwise, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me, as the gospel of the circumcision was unto Peter; 8 (For he that wrought effectually in Peter to the apostleship of the circumcision, the same was mighty in me toward the Gentiles:) 9 And when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given unto me, they gave to me and Barnabas the right hands of fellowship; that we should go unto the heathen, and they unto the circumcision. Jesus Christ chose Paul for this task. Acts 9:15 But the Lord said unto him, Go thy way: for he is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel: You might want to look at history. What HIS-story are we talking about? Satan's lies? The Holy Bible is the only source of truth. You have just refuted yourself, because you have admitted that the Holy Bible does not support your theory. Ok, so everything outside the Bible is a lie? If that is the case why should I listen to you, what you say is outside of the Bible? Now you are being silly. I just put scripture up. I make comments about scripture. Everybody does that. I do use a lot of scripture though and make less comments. But I do discuss scripture, not supposed history from supposed early church fathers. History is HIS-story. It is whatever survived. But Paul in his epistles gives quite a bit of history. If you look in epistles, there were already heresies abounding by circa 40 AD. So how do you know some history is not already promoting heresies. It is simple, just read Paul's epistles. As Paul wrote: 2 Timothy 2:7 Consider what I say; and the Lord give thee understanding in all things. I'm being silly? Posting a hundred verses doesn't prove a point. All it shows is that you know where those verses are. If they are not in context they have no meaning. The Bible doesn't tell us what happened to the apostles. Paul's travels are somewhat recorded, however there were 12 other apostles, what did they do? Paul is the apostles of the Gentiles. He was put to death. As to the others: James killed by Herod's decree. Peter killed by crucifixion. John exiled on Patmos. Do not know from the Holy Bible anything else. Paul to the Gentiles, the others were supposed to go to the circumcision. As to all the verses I post, it is just because the scripture and I agree. You do not have much because you and the scriptures do not agree. They went to the Gentiles just like Jesus told them to do. Regarding the Scriptures, just because you post them doesn't mean they say what you think they say. I can take a sentence out of just about any book and say it means this or it means that. Unless you believe there are errors in the Scriptures one passage that opposes your position is enough to prove it wrong. They did not go to the Gentiles till Peter was sent. That is plain from scripture. In fact, until then they did not even know the Gentiles could be saved. See Acts 10-11 and other passages. Besides in Galatians 2 they all agreed that Paul is the apostle of the Gentiles. That is the problem. You take a passage out of context, add your own interpretation by adding words or giving a false definition, and claim that that shows the very many passages I give as wrong. Jesus Christ warned about that. Matthew 23:24 Ye blind guides, which strain at a gnat, and swallow a camel. Dude, if anyone is taking Scriptures out of context it's not me. I'm not the one who's posting 30 or 40 passages of Scripture in a post devoid of the context in which they were written. I also never said the passages you posted were wrong. It's been my experience that when people post boatloads of Scripture without commentary they don't really know what the Scriptures teach. I have noticed when people put a lot of commentary and little scripture, they are usually deceiving and show how little they value God's words. I see logic and reason have no place here. Have a nice day Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkNigro Posted September 11, 2013 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 12 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 428 Content Per Day: 0.11 Reputation: 61 Days Won: 3 Joined: 07/10/2013 Status: Offline Author Share Posted September 11, 2013 The Holy Bible is quite clear that works of any kind do not save. In fact, the Holy Bible emphatically states that if someone is trying to earn salvation by works or merit, that person will not get saved till they repent (change their mind) and cease trying to earn salvation. Works done for salvation mean no salvation. They mock Christ’s sacrifice on the cross. Paul is the apostle of the Gentiles, and it is the will of Jesus Christ that the Gentiles are to hear the gospel from Paul’s letters. Romans 11:13 For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office: Romans 15:16 That I should be the minister of Jesus Christ to the Gentiles, ministering the gospel of God, that the offering up of the Gentiles might be acceptable, being sanctified by the Holy Ghost. 2 Timothy 4:17 Notwithstanding the Lord stood with me, and strengthened me; that by me the preaching might be fully known, and that all the Gentiles might hear: and I was delivered out of the mouth of the lion. Romans 2:16 In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel. When asked what is required for salvation here is what Paul and Silas said. Acts 16:30-31 30 And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved? 31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house. When asked “what must I do to be saved” Paul only mentions “believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved.” He never mentions works, so it is not required. In the following passages Paul clearly states that trying to do works for salvation means no salvation. Romans 4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness. The following passage says that we are saved by grace through faith and not works. Ephesians 2:8-9 8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast. The following passages say if it is works it is no more grace. But we are only saved by grace. Therefore, works means no salvation at all. Romans 11:6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work. Here are more passages from Paul. Titus 1:16 They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate. Titus 3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; Hebrews 4:10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his. Hebrews 6:1 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God, So there is no passage from Paul that says works are required for salvation. There are a number that say works mean no salvation. There are many passages where Paul says that faith or belief in Jesus Christ is salvation, and since it is the only thing mentioned it must be through faith alone and not works. Here are just a few. Romans 4:3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness. Galatians 3:6 Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness. Romans 1:17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith. Galatians 3:11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith. Hebrews 10:38 Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him. Romans 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. Romans 3:22-26 22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference: 23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; 24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: 25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; 26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus. Christ Jesus the Lord shows that there is only one thing needed for salvation. They wanted to know the works (plural), that is, the entire list. Jesus listed the only thing allowed faith. Any other work for salvation is not of God. John 6:28-29 28 Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God? 29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent. In the next passage Jesus Christ says that to be saved you only need to believe on the Lord Jesus Christ. It works were required then the statement is false. It would have said: he that believes on me and does good works. Since it does not mention works, it has to be by belief alone. Furthermore, if a person does not believe what Jesus says, then they have not believed on the Lord Jesus Christ. Therefore, according to Jesus Christ, a person trusting in works or merit for salvation is not saved. Thus John 6:47 is a faith alone statement which excludes works. Furthermore it is an eternal security statement (once saved always saved) since to have everlasting life means you could never be damned, unless it would say might have everlasting life. Thus Jesus declares that works are not needed to maintain salvation either. The double verily makes this simple to understand statement emphatic. John 6:47 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life. There are many passages (probably over 200) where only faith or belief in Jesus Christ is what saves. The same logic above applies to each of these statements. John 3:14-18 14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: 15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. 16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. 17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. 18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. John 11:25-26 25 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: 26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this? John 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life. John 10:28-30 28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. 29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand. 30 I and my Father are one. The following passage shows that good works come after salvation (as a result of salvation) and not for salvation. Created in Christ Jesus means already saved. Unto good works shows that good works come after salvation (by God working in you). Notice it also says, “should” not must. So they are not required for salvation or to maintain salvation. Ephesians 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them. The above sampling absolutely proves that works are not needed for salvation. They also prove that eternal security (once saved always saved) is absolutely true. They are emphatic and quite clear. Since the Holy Bible has no contradictions, anything that someone thinks shows otherwise is just a mistaken interpretation. Many people assume a passage is talking about salvation/damnation when it is not. This is usually done by taking the verse out of context, assuming meanings of words with false definitions and doctrines, ignoring what salvation really means, or by not rightly dividing the word of truth (see 2 Timothy 2:15) They may be confusing statements made to a different people, for a different time, about a different subject. They may even be using a new Bible version with a corrupt reading. In love, in Christ, in meekness Mark You might be interested to know that the rest of the apostles went to the Gentiles also. Not after the agreement in Galatians 2. So you are wrong. Galatians 2:7-9 7 But contrariwise, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me, as the gospel of the circumcision was unto Peter; 8 (For he that wrought effectually in Peter to the apostleship of the circumcision, the same was mighty in me toward the Gentiles 9 And when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given unto me, they gave to me and Barnabas the right hands of fellowship; that we should go unto the heathen, and they unto the circumcision. From the following verses, it is God’s will, that Paul is the apostle of the Gentiles and that it is through his writings, which he got by direct revelation from the Lord Jesus Christ, that the gospel of salvation is to be preached to the Gentiles. Romans 11:13 For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office: Romans 15:16 That I should be the minister of Jesus Christ to the Gentiles, ministering the gospel of God, that the offering up of the Gentiles might be acceptable, being sanctified by the Holy Ghost. 2 Timothy 4:17 Notwithstanding the Lord stood with me, and strengthened me; that by me the preaching might be fully known, and that all the Gentiles might hear: and I was delivered out of the mouth of the lion. Paul preaches, defends, and declares the gospel of salvation through his writings. Romans 1:15 So, as much as in me is, I am ready to preach the gospel to you that are at Rome also. Philippians 1:17 But the other of love, knowing that I am set for the defence of the gospel. 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 1Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand; 2By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain. 3For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; 4And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: It is the gospel of salvation that Paul preaches through his writings that are the very basis of God’s judgment. Romans 2:16 In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel. From the next verse it is obvious that all who believe the gospel of Christ are saved. No other requirement in mentioned. Romans 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. We are commanded to rightly dividing the word of truth. Everyone divides the word of truth (the Holy Bible) in some manner. The question is what method is the correct way. For example no one dwells in booths for the feast of tabernacles (see Leviticus 23:42). Most people correctly recognize that the ceremonial laws, the feast days, the Levitical priesthood, the tabernacle care, the dietary restrictions, and the sacrificial parts of the Old Testament law do not apply to us the saved Gentiles since we are under the New Testament. Thus they rightly divide out these commands as not applying to Christians today. 2 Timothy 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. But right division also eliminates parts of the New Testament. For example nobody does the following. Mark 16:18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover. Not many do the following either. Acts 4:34 Neither was there any among them that lacked: for as many as were possessors of lands or houses sold them, and brought the prices of the things that were sold, Rightly dividing the word of truth means to accept that Paul is the apostle of the Gentiles and that his writings declare, defend and preach the gospel of salvation. We are to consider what Paul writes. 2 Timothy 2:7-8 7 Consider what I say; and the Lord give thee understanding in all things. 8 Remember that Jesus Christ of the seed of David was raised from the dead according to my gospel: Paul got the gospel he preaches directly from Jesus Christ (equivalent to words in red). Galatians 1:11-12,15-16 11But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man. 12For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ. 15But when it pleased God, who separated me from my mother's womb, and called me by his grace, 16To reveal his Son in me, that I might preach him among the heathen; immediately I conferred not with flesh and blood: NOTE that the apostles agreed that Paul is to preach the gospel to the Gentiles. Galatians 2:7-9 7 But contrariwise, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me, as the gospel of the circumcision was unto Peter; 8 (For he that wrought effectually in Peter to the apostleship of the circumcision, the same was mighty in me toward the Gentiles:) 9 And when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given unto me, they gave to me and Barnabas the right hands of fellowship; that we should go unto the heathen, and they unto the circumcision. Jesus Christ chose Paul for this task. Acts 9:15 But the Lord said unto him, Go thy way: for he is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel: You might want to look at history. What HIS-story are we talking about? Satan's lies? The Holy Bible is the only source of truth. You have just refuted yourself, because you have admitted that the Holy Bible does not support your theory. Ok, so everything outside the Bible is a lie? If that is the case why should I listen to you, what you say is outside of the Bible? Now you are being silly. I just put scripture up. I make comments about scripture. Everybody does that. I do use a lot of scripture though and make less comments. But I do discuss scripture, not supposed history from supposed early church fathers. History is HIS-story. It is whatever survived. But Paul in his epistles gives quite a bit of history. If you look in epistles, there were already heresies abounding by circa 40 AD. So how do you know some history is not already promoting heresies. It is simple, just read Paul's epistles. As Paul wrote: 2 Timothy 2:7 Consider what I say; and the Lord give thee understanding in all things. I'm being silly? Posting a hundred verses doesn't prove a point. All it shows is that you know where those verses are. If they are not in context they have no meaning. The Bible doesn't tell us what happened to the apostles. Paul's travels are somewhat recorded, however there were 12 other apostles, what did they do? Paul is the apostles of the Gentiles. He was put to death. As to the others: James killed by Herod's decree. Peter killed by crucifixion. John exiled on Patmos. Do not know from the Holy Bible anything else. Paul to the Gentiles, the others were supposed to go to the circumcision. As to all the verses I post, it is just because the scripture and I agree. You do not have much because you and the scriptures do not agree. They went to the Gentiles just like Jesus told them to do. Regarding the Scriptures, just because you post them doesn't mean they say what you think they say. I can take a sentence out of just about any book and say it means this or it means that. Unless you believe there are errors in the Scriptures one passage that opposes your position is enough to prove it wrong. They did not go to the Gentiles till Peter was sent. That is plain from scripture. In fact, until then they did not even know the Gentiles could be saved. See Acts 10-11 and other passages. Besides in Galatians 2 they all agreed that Paul is the apostle of the Gentiles. That is the problem. You take a passage out of context, add your own interpretation by adding words or giving a false definition, and claim that that shows the very many passages I give as wrong. Jesus Christ warned about that. Matthew 23:24 Ye blind guides, which strain at a gnat, and swallow a camel. Dude, if anyone is taking Scriptures out of context it's not me. I'm not the one who's posting 30 or 40 passages of Scripture in a post devoid of the context in which they were written. I also never said the passages you posted were wrong. It's been my experience that when people post boatloads of Scripture without commentary they don't really know what the Scriptures teach. I have noticed when people put a lot of commentary and little scripture, they are usually deceiving and show how little they value God's words. I see logic and reason have no place here. Have a nice day You use your own philosophical reasoning. You also do not rightly divide the word of truth. 2 Timothy 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetson Posted September 11, 2013 Group: Members Followers: 0 Topic Count: 4 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 52 Content Per Day: 0.01 Reputation: 5 Days Won: 0 Joined: 09/10/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted September 11, 2013 The Holy Bible is quite clear that works of any kind do not save. In fact, the Holy Bible emphatically states that if someone is trying to earn salvation by works or merit, that person will not get saved till they repent (change their mind) and cease trying to earn salvation. Works done for salvation mean no salvation. They mock Christ’s sacrifice on the cross. Paul is the apostle of the Gentiles, and it is the will of Jesus Christ that the Gentiles are to hear the gospel from Paul’s letters. Romans 11:13 For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office: Romans 15:16 That I should be the minister of Jesus Christ to the Gentiles, ministering the gospel of God, that the offering up of the Gentiles might be acceptable, being sanctified by the Holy Ghost. 2 Timothy 4:17 Notwithstanding the Lord stood with me, and strengthened me; that by me the preaching might be fully known, and that all the Gentiles might hear: and I was delivered out of the mouth of the lion. Romans 2:16 In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel. When asked what is required for salvation here is what Paul and Silas said. Acts 16:30-31 30 And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved? 31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house. When asked “what must I do to be saved” Paul only mentions “believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved.” He never mentions works, so it is not required. In the following passages Paul clearly states that trying to do works for salvation means no salvation. Romans 4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness. The following passage says that we are saved by grace through faith and not works. Ephesians 2:8-9 8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast. The following passages say if it is works it is no more grace. But we are only saved by grace. Therefore, works means no salvation at all. Romans 11:6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work. Here are more passages from Paul. Titus 1:16 They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate. Titus 3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; Hebrews 4:10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his. Hebrews 6:1 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God, So there is no passage from Paul that says works are required for salvation. There are a number that say works mean no salvation. There are many passages where Paul says that faith or belief in Jesus Christ is salvation, and since it is the only thing mentioned it must be through faith alone and not works. Here are just a few. Romans 4:3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness. Galatians 3:6 Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness. Romans 1:17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith. Galatians 3:11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith. Hebrews 10:38 Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him. Romans 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. Romans 3:22-26 22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference: 23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; 24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: 25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; 26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus. Christ Jesus the Lord shows that there is only one thing needed for salvation. They wanted to know the works (plural), that is, the entire list. Jesus listed the only thing allowed faith. Any other work for salvation is not of God. John 6:28-29 28 Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God? 29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent. In the next passage Jesus Christ says that to be saved you only need to believe on the Lord Jesus Christ. It works were required then the statement is false. It would have said: he that believes on me and does good works. Since it does not mention works, it has to be by belief alone. Furthermore, if a person does not believe what Jesus says, then they have not believed on the Lord Jesus Christ. Therefore, according to Jesus Christ, a person trusting in works or merit for salvation is not saved. Thus John 6:47 is a faith alone statement which excludes works. Furthermore it is an eternal security statement (once saved always saved) since to have everlasting life means you could never be damned, unless it would say might have everlasting life. Thus Jesus declares that works are not needed to maintain salvation either. The double verily makes this simple to understand statement emphatic. John 6:47 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life. There are many passages (probably over 200) where only faith or belief in Jesus Christ is what saves. The same logic above applies to each of these statements. John 3:14-18 14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: 15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. 16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. 17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. 18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. John 11:25-26 25 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: 26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this? John 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life. John 10:28-30 28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. 29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand. 30 I and my Father are one. The following passage shows that good works come after salvation (as a result of salvation) and not for salvation. Created in Christ Jesus means already saved. Unto good works shows that good works come after salvation (by God working in you). Notice it also says, “should” not must. So they are not required for salvation or to maintain salvation. Ephesians 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them. The above sampling absolutely proves that works are not needed for salvation. They also prove that eternal security (once saved always saved) is absolutely true. They are emphatic and quite clear. Since the Holy Bible has no contradictions, anything that someone thinks shows otherwise is just a mistaken interpretation. Many people assume a passage is talking about salvation/damnation when it is not. This is usually done by taking the verse out of context, assuming meanings of words with false definitions and doctrines, ignoring what salvation really means, or by not rightly dividing the word of truth (see 2 Timothy 2:15) They may be confusing statements made to a different people, for a different time, about a different subject. They may even be using a new Bible version with a corrupt reading. In love, in Christ, in meekness Mark The Holy Bible is quite clear that works of any kind do not save. In fact, the Holy Bible emphatically states that if someone is trying to earn salvation by works or merit, that person will not get saved till they repent (change their mind) and cease trying to earn salvation. Works done for salvation mean no salvation. They mock Christ’s sacrifice on the cross. Paul is the apostle of the Gentiles, and it is the will of Jesus Christ that the Gentiles are to hear the gospel from Paul’s letters. Romans 11:13 For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office: Romans 15:16 That I should be the minister of Jesus Christ to the Gentiles, ministering the gospel of God, that the offering up of the Gentiles might be acceptable, being sanctified by the Holy Ghost. 2 Timothy 4:17 Notwithstanding the Lord stood with me, and strengthened me; that by me the preaching might be fully known, and that all the Gentiles might hear: and I was delivered out of the mouth of the lion. Romans 2:16 In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel. When asked what is required for salvation here is what Paul and Silas said. Acts 16:30-31 30 And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved? 31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house. When asked “what must I do to be saved” Paul only mentions “believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved.” He never mentions works, so it is not required. In the following passages Paul clearly states that trying to do works for salvation means no salvation. Romans 4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness. The following passage says that we are saved by grace through faith and not works. Ephesians 2:8-9 8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast. The following passages say if it is works it is no more grace. But we are only saved by grace. Therefore, works means no salvation at all. Romans 11:6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work. Here are more passages from Paul. Titus 1:16 They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate. Titus 3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; Hebrews 4:10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his. Hebrews 6:1 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God, So there is no passage from Paul that says works are required for salvation. There are a number that say works mean no salvation. There are many passages where Paul says that faith or belief in Jesus Christ is salvation, and since it is the only thing mentioned it must be through faith alone and not works. Here are just a few. Romans 4:3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness. Galatians 3:6 Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness. Romans 1:17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith. Galatians 3:11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith. Hebrews 10:38 Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him. Romans 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. Romans 3:22-26 22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference: 23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; 24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: 25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; 26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus. Christ Jesus the Lord shows that there is only one thing needed for salvation. They wanted to know the works (plural), that is, the entire list. Jesus listed the only thing allowed faith. Any other work for salvation is not of God. John 6:28-29 28 Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God? 29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent. In the next passage Jesus Christ says that to be saved you only need to believe on the Lord Jesus Christ. It works were required then the statement is false. It would have said: he that believes on me and does good works. Since it does not mention works, it has to be by belief alone. Furthermore, if a person does not believe what Jesus says, then they have not believed on the Lord Jesus Christ. Therefore, according to Jesus Christ, a person trusting in works or merit for salvation is not saved. Thus John 6:47 is a faith alone statement which excludes works. Furthermore it is an eternal security statement (once saved always saved) since to have everlasting life means you could never be damned, unless it would say might have everlasting life. Thus Jesus declares that works are not needed to maintain salvation either. The double verily makes this simple to understand statement emphatic. John 6:47 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life. There are many passages (probably over 200) where only faith or belief in Jesus Christ is what saves. The same logic above applies to each of these statements. John 3:14-18 14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: 15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. 16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. 17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. 18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. John 11:25-26 25 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: 26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this? John 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life. John 10:28-30 28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. 29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand. 30 I and my Father are one. The following passage shows that good works come after salvation (as a result of salvation) and not for salvation. Created in Christ Jesus means already saved. Unto good works shows that good works come after salvation (by God working in you). Notice it also says, “should” not must. So they are not required for salvation or to maintain salvation. Ephesians 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them. The above sampling absolutely proves that works are not needed for salvation. They also prove that eternal security (once saved always saved) is absolutely true. They are emphatic and quite clear. Since the Holy Bible has no contradictions, anything that someone thinks shows otherwise is just a mistaken interpretation. Many people assume a passage is talking about salvation/damnation when it is not. This is usually done by taking the verse out of context, assuming meanings of words with false definitions and doctrines, ignoring what salvation really means, or by not rightly dividing the word of truth (see 2 Timothy 2:15) They may be confusing statements made to a different people, for a different time, about a different subject. They may even be using a new Bible version with a corrupt reading. In love, in Christ, in meekness Mark You might be interested to know that the rest of the apostles went to the Gentiles also. Not after the agreement in Galatians 2. So you are wrong. Galatians 2:7-9 7 But contrariwise, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me, as the gospel of the circumcision was unto Peter; 8 (For he that wrought effectually in Peter to the apostleship of the circumcision, the same was mighty in me toward the Gentiles 9 And when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given unto me, they gave to me and Barnabas the right hands of fellowship; that we should go unto the heathen, and they unto the circumcision. From the following verses, it is God’s will, that Paul is the apostle of the Gentiles and that it is through his writings, which he got by direct revelation from the Lord Jesus Christ, that the gospel of salvation is to be preached to the Gentiles. Romans 11:13 For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office: Romans 15:16 That I should be the minister of Jesus Christ to the Gentiles, ministering the gospel of God, that the offering up of the Gentiles might be acceptable, being sanctified by the Holy Ghost. 2 Timothy 4:17 Notwithstanding the Lord stood with me, and strengthened me; that by me the preaching might be fully known, and that all the Gentiles might hear: and I was delivered out of the mouth of the lion. Paul preaches, defends, and declares the gospel of salvation through his writings. Romans 1:15 So, as much as in me is, I am ready to preach the gospel to you that are at Rome also. Philippians 1:17 But the other of love, knowing that I am set for the defence of the gospel. 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 1Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand; 2By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain. 3For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; 4And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: It is the gospel of salvation that Paul preaches through his writings that are the very basis of God’s judgment. Romans 2:16 In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel. From the next verse it is obvious that all who believe the gospel of Christ are saved. No other requirement in mentioned. Romans 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. We are commanded to rightly dividing the word of truth. Everyone divides the word of truth (the Holy Bible) in some manner. The question is what method is the correct way. For example no one dwells in booths for the feast of tabernacles (see Leviticus 23:42). Most people correctly recognize that the ceremonial laws, the feast days, the Levitical priesthood, the tabernacle care, the dietary restrictions, and the sacrificial parts of the Old Testament law do not apply to us the saved Gentiles since we are under the New Testament. Thus they rightly divide out these commands as not applying to Christians today. 2 Timothy 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. But right division also eliminates parts of the New Testament. For example nobody does the following. Mark 16:18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover. Not many do the following either. Acts 4:34 Neither was there any among them that lacked: for as many as were possessors of lands or houses sold them, and brought the prices of the things that were sold, Rightly dividing the word of truth means to accept that Paul is the apostle of the Gentiles and that his writings declare, defend and preach the gospel of salvation. We are to consider what Paul writes. 2 Timothy 2:7-8 7 Consider what I say; and the Lord give thee understanding in all things. 8 Remember that Jesus Christ of the seed of David was raised from the dead according to my gospel: Paul got the gospel he preaches directly from Jesus Christ (equivalent to words in red). Galatians 1:11-12,15-16 11But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man. 12For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ. 15But when it pleased God, who separated me from my mother's womb, and called me by his grace, 16To reveal his Son in me, that I might preach him among the heathen; immediately I conferred not with flesh and blood: NOTE that the apostles agreed that Paul is to preach the gospel to the Gentiles. Galatians 2:7-9 7 But contrariwise, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me, as the gospel of the circumcision was unto Peter; 8 (For he that wrought effectually in Peter to the apostleship of the circumcision, the same was mighty in me toward the Gentiles:) 9 And when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given unto me, they gave to me and Barnabas the right hands of fellowship; that we should go unto the heathen, and they unto the circumcision. Jesus Christ chose Paul for this task. Acts 9:15 But the Lord said unto him, Go thy way: for he is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel: You might want to look at history. What HIS-story are we talking about? Satan's lies? The Holy Bible is the only source of truth. You have just refuted yourself, because you have admitted that the Holy Bible does not support your theory. Ok, so everything outside the Bible is a lie? If that is the case why should I listen to you, what you say is outside of the Bible? Now you are being silly. I just put scripture up. I make comments about scripture. Everybody does that. I do use a lot of scripture though and make less comments. But I do discuss scripture, not supposed history from supposed early church fathers. History is HIS-story. It is whatever survived. But Paul in his epistles gives quite a bit of history. If you look in epistles, there were already heresies abounding by circa 40 AD. So how do you know some history is not already promoting heresies. It is simple, just read Paul's epistles. As Paul wrote: 2 Timothy 2:7 Consider what I say; and the Lord give thee understanding in all things. I'm being silly? Posting a hundred verses doesn't prove a point. All it shows is that you know where those verses are. If they are not in context they have no meaning. The Bible doesn't tell us what happened to the apostles. Paul's travels are somewhat recorded, however there were 12 other apostles, what did they do? Paul is the apostles of the Gentiles. He was put to death. As to the others: James killed by Herod's decree. Peter killed by crucifixion. John exiled on Patmos. Do not know from the Holy Bible anything else. Paul to the Gentiles, the others were supposed to go to the circumcision. As to all the verses I post, it is just because the scripture and I agree. You do not have much because you and the scriptures do not agree. They went to the Gentiles just like Jesus told them to do. Regarding the Scriptures, just because you post them doesn't mean they say what you think they say. I can take a sentence out of just about any book and say it means this or it means that. Unless you believe there are errors in the Scriptures one passage that opposes your position is enough to prove it wrong. I have been trying to get across what you said here. Most want to stay under the law and works, when the Bible states we have been deliver from both the law and works. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butch5 Posted September 11, 2013 Group: Senior Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 0 Topics Per Day: 0 Content Count: 559 Content Per Day: 0.14 Reputation: 136 Days Won: 2 Joined: 09/09/2013 Status: Offline Birthday: 03/01/1962 Share Posted September 11, 2013 The Holy Bible is quite clear that works of any kind do not save. In fact, the Holy Bible emphatically states that if someone is trying to earn salvation by works or merit, that person will not get saved till they repent (change their mind) and cease trying to earn salvation. Works done for salvation mean no salvation. They mock Christ’s sacrifice on the cross. Paul is the apostle of the Gentiles, and it is the will of Jesus Christ that the Gentiles are to hear the gospel from Paul’s letters. Romans 11:13 For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office: Romans 15:16 That I should be the minister of Jesus Christ to the Gentiles, ministering the gospel of God, that the offering up of the Gentiles might be acceptable, being sanctified by the Holy Ghost. 2 Timothy 4:17 Notwithstanding the Lord stood with me, and strengthened me; that by me the preaching might be fully known, and that all the Gentiles might hear: and I was delivered out of the mouth of the lion. Romans 2:16 In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel. When asked what is required for salvation here is what Paul and Silas said. Acts 16:30-31 30 And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved? 31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house. When asked “what must I do to be saved” Paul only mentions “believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved.” He never mentions works, so it is not required. In the following passages Paul clearly states that trying to do works for salvation means no salvation. Romans 4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness. The following passage says that we are saved by grace through faith and not works. Ephesians 2:8-9 8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast. The following passages say if it is works it is no more grace. But we are only saved by grace. Therefore, works means no salvation at all. Romans 11:6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work. Here are more passages from Paul. Titus 1:16 They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate. Titus 3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; Hebrews 4:10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his. Hebrews 6:1 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God, So there is no passage from Paul that says works are required for salvation. There are a number that say works mean no salvation. There are many passages where Paul says that faith or belief in Jesus Christ is salvation, and since it is the only thing mentioned it must be through faith alone and not works. Here are just a few. Romans 4:3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness. Galatians 3:6 Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness. Romans 1:17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith. Galatians 3:11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith. Hebrews 10:38 Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him. Romans 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. Romans 3:22-26 22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference: 23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; 24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: 25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; 26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus. Christ Jesus the Lord shows that there is only one thing needed for salvation. They wanted to know the works (plural), that is, the entire list. Jesus listed the only thing allowed faith. Any other work for salvation is not of God. John 6:28-29 28 Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God? 29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent. In the next passage Jesus Christ says that to be saved you only need to believe on the Lord Jesus Christ. It works were required then the statement is false. It would have said: he that believes on me and does good works. Since it does not mention works, it has to be by belief alone. Furthermore, if a person does not believe what Jesus says, then they have not believed on the Lord Jesus Christ. Therefore, according to Jesus Christ, a person trusting in works or merit for salvation is not saved. Thus John 6:47 is a faith alone statement which excludes works. Furthermore it is an eternal security statement (once saved always saved) since to have everlasting life means you could never be damned, unless it would say might have everlasting life. Thus Jesus declares that works are not needed to maintain salvation either. The double verily makes this simple to understand statement emphatic. John 6:47 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life. There are many passages (probably over 200) where only faith or belief in Jesus Christ is what saves. The same logic above applies to each of these statements. John 3:14-18 14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: 15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. 16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. 17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. 18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. John 11:25-26 25 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: 26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this? John 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life. John 10:28-30 28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. 29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand. 30 I and my Father are one. The following passage shows that good works come after salvation (as a result of salvation) and not for salvation. Created in Christ Jesus means already saved. Unto good works shows that good works come after salvation (by God working in you). Notice it also says, “should” not must. So they are not required for salvation or to maintain salvation. Ephesians 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them. The above sampling absolutely proves that works are not needed for salvation. They also prove that eternal security (once saved always saved) is absolutely true. They are emphatic and quite clear. Since the Holy Bible has no contradictions, anything that someone thinks shows otherwise is just a mistaken interpretation. Many people assume a passage is talking about salvation/damnation when it is not. This is usually done by taking the verse out of context, assuming meanings of words with false definitions and doctrines, ignoring what salvation really means, or by not rightly dividing the word of truth (see 2 Timothy 2:15) They may be confusing statements made to a different people, for a different time, about a different subject. They may even be using a new Bible version with a corrupt reading. In love, in Christ, in meekness Mark The Holy Bible is quite clear that works of any kind do not save. In fact, the Holy Bible emphatically states that if someone is trying to earn salvation by works or merit, that person will not get saved till they repent (change their mind) and cease trying to earn salvation. Works done for salvation mean no salvation. They mock Christ’s sacrifice on the cross. Paul is the apostle of the Gentiles, and it is the will of Jesus Christ that the Gentiles are to hear the gospel from Paul’s letters. Romans 11:13 For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office: Romans 15:16 That I should be the minister of Jesus Christ to the Gentiles, ministering the gospel of God, that the offering up of the Gentiles might be acceptable, being sanctified by the Holy Ghost. 2 Timothy 4:17 Notwithstanding the Lord stood with me, and strengthened me; that by me the preaching might be fully known, and that all the Gentiles might hear: and I was delivered out of the mouth of the lion. Romans 2:16 In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel. When asked what is required for salvation here is what Paul and Silas said. Acts 16:30-31 30 And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved? 31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house. When asked “what must I do to be saved” Paul only mentions “believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved.” He never mentions works, so it is not required. In the following passages Paul clearly states that trying to do works for salvation means no salvation. Romans 4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness. The following passage says that we are saved by grace through faith and not works. Ephesians 2:8-9 8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast. The following passages say if it is works it is no more grace. But we are only saved by grace. Therefore, works means no salvation at all. Romans 11:6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work. Here are more passages from Paul. Titus 1:16 They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate. Titus 3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; Hebrews 4:10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his. Hebrews 6:1 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God, So there is no passage from Paul that says works are required for salvation. There are a number that say works mean no salvation. There are many passages where Paul says that faith or belief in Jesus Christ is salvation, and since it is the only thing mentioned it must be through faith alone and not works. Here are just a few. Romans 4:3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness. Galatians 3:6 Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness. Romans 1:17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith. Galatians 3:11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith. Hebrews 10:38 Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him. Romans 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. Romans 3:22-26 22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference: 23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; 24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: 25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; 26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus. Christ Jesus the Lord shows that there is only one thing needed for salvation. They wanted to know the works (plural), that is, the entire list. Jesus listed the only thing allowed faith. Any other work for salvation is not of God. John 6:28-29 28 Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God? 29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent. In the next passage Jesus Christ says that to be saved you only need to believe on the Lord Jesus Christ. It works were required then the statement is false. It would have said: he that believes on me and does good works. Since it does not mention works, it has to be by belief alone. Furthermore, if a person does not believe what Jesus says, then they have not believed on the Lord Jesus Christ. Therefore, according to Jesus Christ, a person trusting in works or merit for salvation is not saved. Thus John 6:47 is a faith alone statement which excludes works. Furthermore it is an eternal security statement (once saved always saved) since to have everlasting life means you could never be damned, unless it would say might have everlasting life. Thus Jesus declares that works are not needed to maintain salvation either. The double verily makes this simple to understand statement emphatic. John 6:47 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life. There are many passages (probably over 200) where only faith or belief in Jesus Christ is what saves. The same logic above applies to each of these statements. John 3:14-18 14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: 15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. 16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. 17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. 18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. John 11:25-26 25 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: 26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this? John 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life. John 10:28-30 28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. 29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand. 30 I and my Father are one. The following passage shows that good works come after salvation (as a result of salvation) and not for salvation. Created in Christ Jesus means already saved. Unto good works shows that good works come after salvation (by God working in you). Notice it also says, “should” not must. So they are not required for salvation or to maintain salvation. Ephesians 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them. The above sampling absolutely proves that works are not needed for salvation. They also prove that eternal security (once saved always saved) is absolutely true. They are emphatic and quite clear. Since the Holy Bible has no contradictions, anything that someone thinks shows otherwise is just a mistaken interpretation. Many people assume a passage is talking about salvation/damnation when it is not. This is usually done by taking the verse out of context, assuming meanings of words with false definitions and doctrines, ignoring what salvation really means, or by not rightly dividing the word of truth (see 2 Timothy 2:15) They may be confusing statements made to a different people, for a different time, about a different subject. They may even be using a new Bible version with a corrupt reading. In love, in Christ, in meekness Mark You might be interested to know that the rest of the apostles went to the Gentiles also. Not after the agreement in Galatians 2. So you are wrong. Galatians 2:7-9 7 But contrariwise, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me, as the gospel of the circumcision was unto Peter; 8 (For he that wrought effectually in Peter to the apostleship of the circumcision, the same was mighty in me toward the Gentiles 9 And when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given unto me, they gave to me and Barnabas the right hands of fellowship; that we should go unto the heathen, and they unto the circumcision. From the following verses, it is God’s will, that Paul is the apostle of the Gentiles and that it is through his writings, which he got by direct revelation from the Lord Jesus Christ, that the gospel of salvation is to be preached to the Gentiles. Romans 11:13 For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office: Romans 15:16 That I should be the minister of Jesus Christ to the Gentiles, ministering the gospel of God, that the offering up of the Gentiles might be acceptable, being sanctified by the Holy Ghost. 2 Timothy 4:17 Notwithstanding the Lord stood with me, and strengthened me; that by me the preaching might be fully known, and that all the Gentiles might hear: and I was delivered out of the mouth of the lion. Paul preaches, defends, and declares the gospel of salvation through his writings. Romans 1:15 So, as much as in me is, I am ready to preach the gospel to you that are at Rome also. Philippians 1:17 But the other of love, knowing that I am set for the defence of the gospel. 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 1Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand; 2By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain. 3For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; 4And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: It is the gospel of salvation that Paul preaches through his writings that are the very basis of God’s judgment. Romans 2:16 In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel. From the next verse it is obvious that all who believe the gospel of Christ are saved. No other requirement in mentioned. Romans 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. We are commanded to rightly dividing the word of truth. Everyone divides the word of truth (the Holy Bible) in some manner. The question is what method is the correct way. For example no one dwells in booths for the feast of tabernacles (see Leviticus 23:42). Most people correctly recognize that the ceremonial laws, the feast days, the Levitical priesthood, the tabernacle care, the dietary restrictions, and the sacrificial parts of the Old Testament law do not apply to us the saved Gentiles since we are under the New Testament. Thus they rightly divide out these commands as not applying to Christians today. 2 Timothy 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. But right division also eliminates parts of the New Testament. For example nobody does the following. Mark 16:18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover. Not many do the following either. Acts 4:34 Neither was there any among them that lacked: for as many as were possessors of lands or houses sold them, and brought the prices of the things that were sold, Rightly dividing the word of truth means to accept that Paul is the apostle of the Gentiles and that his writings declare, defend and preach the gospel of salvation. We are to consider what Paul writes. 2 Timothy 2:7-8 7 Consider what I say; and the Lord give thee understanding in all things. 8 Remember that Jesus Christ of the seed of David was raised from the dead according to my gospel: Paul got the gospel he preaches directly from Jesus Christ (equivalent to words in red). Galatians 1:11-12,15-16 11But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man. 12For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ. 15But when it pleased God, who separated me from my mother's womb, and called me by his grace, 16To reveal his Son in me, that I might preach him among the heathen; immediately I conferred not with flesh and blood: NOTE that the apostles agreed that Paul is to preach the gospel to the Gentiles. Galatians 2:7-9 7 But contrariwise, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me, as the gospel of the circumcision was unto Peter; 8 (For he that wrought effectually in Peter to the apostleship of the circumcision, the same was mighty in me toward the Gentiles:) 9 And when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given unto me, they gave to me and Barnabas the right hands of fellowship; that we should go unto the heathen, and they unto the circumcision. Jesus Christ chose Paul for this task. Acts 9:15 But the Lord said unto him, Go thy way: for he is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel: You might want to look at history. What HIS-story are we talking about? Satan's lies? The Holy Bible is the only source of truth. You have just refuted yourself, because you have admitted that the Holy Bible does not support your theory. Ok, so everything outside the Bible is a lie? If that is the case why should I listen to you, what you say is outside of the Bible? Now you are being silly. I just put scripture up. I make comments about scripture. Everybody does that. I do use a lot of scripture though and make less comments. But I do discuss scripture, not supposed history from supposed early church fathers. History is HIS-story. It is whatever survived. But Paul in his epistles gives quite a bit of history. If you look in epistles, there were already heresies abounding by circa 40 AD. So how do you know some history is not already promoting heresies. It is simple, just read Paul's epistles. As Paul wrote: 2 Timothy 2:7 Consider what I say; and the Lord give thee understanding in all things. I'm being silly? Posting a hundred verses doesn't prove a point. All it shows is that you know where those verses are. If they are not in context they have no meaning. The Bible doesn't tell us what happened to the apostles. Paul's travels are somewhat recorded, however there were 12 other apostles, what did they do? Paul is the apostles of the Gentiles. He was put to death. As to the others: James killed by Herod's decree. Peter killed by crucifixion. John exiled on Patmos. Do not know from the Holy Bible anything else. Paul to the Gentiles, the others were supposed to go to the circumcision. As to all the verses I post, it is just because the scripture and I agree. You do not have much because you and the scriptures do not agree. They went to the Gentiles just like Jesus told them to do. Regarding the Scriptures, just because you post them doesn't mean they say what you think they say. I can take a sentence out of just about any book and say it means this or it means that. Unless you believe there are errors in the Scriptures one passage that opposes your position is enough to prove it wrong. I have been trying to get across what you said here. Most want to stay under the law and works, when the Bible states we have been deliver from both the law and works. I'm not sure what you're getting at here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts