MarkNigro Posted September 10, 2013 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 12 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 428 Content Per Day: 0.11 Reputation: 61 Days Won: 3 Joined: 07/10/2013 Status: Offline Author Share Posted September 10, 2013 Can you prove that Jesus is lord and savor based on sources other than the Bible? Have you ever studied in-depth the resurrection of Jesus? Where can you prove that Jesus resurrected without using the Bible? Josephus, a historian at about that time, at least refers to the resurrection of Jesus Christ. There are a number of writings of other gospels and epistles, which although not included in the Holy Bible, refer to the resurrected Jesus Christ. I believe that there are also other historians from that time that also refer to the resurrection. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest AFlameOfFire Posted September 10, 2013 Share Posted September 10, 2013 Seems to me that we are getting a little "wrapped around the axle" with semantics here... We have One God, who has chosen to reveal Himself to us as Father, Son, and Holy Spirit...not three Gods...One God in three persons and of one essence...and therein IMO lies the key to the question whether Jesus is in fact God Almighty. When we declare that all are of one essence, we are saying that each person of the Godhead fully posesses all the attributes of God within Himself. If even one attribute is missing (omnipotence, omnipresence, etc.) then the person missing that attribute cannot be God. Obviously the question arises: "If Jesus Is God, why didn't He know when He'd return...Why did He pray to the Father...Why did He say the Father is greater than I?" The answer is really quite simple: Jesus never "surendered" any attribute of God, by rather chose to operate within the constraints inherent to a human being in order to fulfill His mission on earth. (Philippians 2:5-11) So then, Jesus still retained all the attributes of God...He simply chose to place certain attributes in abeyance. But does the scripture declare that Jesus is Almighty God? I believe that it does indeed. In Revelation 1:7-8 we read: 7 Behold, He is coming with clouds, and every eye will see Him, even they who pierced Him. And all the tribes of the earth will mourn because of Him. Even so, Amen. 8 “I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End,” says the Lord, “who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty.” (Emphasis added) Now there are some who will try to say that the speaker in verse 8 is not Jesus, but The Father...notice however the title "Alpha and Omega"... The identity of the speaker is made crystal clear in the subsequent verses: 10 I was in the Spirit on the Lord’s Day, and I heard behind me a loud voice, as of a trumpet, 11 saying, “I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last,” and, “What you see, write in a book and send it to the seven churches which are in Asia: to Ephesus, to Smyrna, to Pergamos, to Thyatira, to Sardis, to Philadelphia, and to Laodicea.” 12 Then I turned to see the voice that spoke with me. And having turned I saw seven golden lampstands, 13 and in the midst of the seven lampstands One like the Son of Man, clothed with a garment down to the feet and girded about the chest with a golden band. 14 His head and hair were white like wool, as white as snow, and His eyes like a flame of fire; 15 His feet were like fine brass, as if refined in a furnace, and His voice as the sound of many waters; 16 He had in His right hand seven stars, out of His mouth went a sharp two-edged sword, and His countenance was like the sun shining in its strength. 17 And when I saw Him, I fell at His feet as dead. But He laid His right hand on me, saying to me, “Do not be afraid; I am the First and the Last. 18 I am He who lives, and was dead, and behold, I am alive forevermore. Amen. And I have the keys of Hades and of Death. (Rev 1:10-18 emphasis added) From these verses alone (and there are others) I don't think that there can be any doubt that Jesus is declaring Himself to be "The Almighty". Heres a few for you, I had posted this on another thread not too far back. Shows Him appearing by one name but by the name JEHOVAH (LORD) he was known to Abraham, Isaac, or Jacob as he told Moses Exodus 6:3 And I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, by the name of God Almighty, but by my name JEHOVAH was I not known to them. Where back in Gen 17:1 And when Abram was ninety years old and nine, the LORD appeared to Abram, and said unto him, I am the Almighty God; walk before me, and be thou perfect. That's where Abram got his name change Gen 17:5 Neither shall thy name any more be called Abram, but thy name shall be Abraham; for a father of many nations have I made thee. So literally before Abraham was (even by name) Likewise shown in Isaac Gen 28:3 And God Almighty bless thee, and make thee fruitful, and multiply thee, that thou mayest be a multitude of people; Jacob (name change to Israel in Gen 35:10) Gen 35:11 And God said unto him, I am God Almighty: be fruitful and multiply; a nation and a company of nations shall be of thee, and kings shall come out of thy loins; Gen 48:3 And Jacob said unto Joseph, God Almighty appeared unto me at Luz in the land of Canaan, and blessed me, Exodus 6:3 And I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, by the name of God Almighty, but by my name JEHOVAH was I not known to them. Shows two names, one his was not known by Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kwikphilly Posted September 10, 2013 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 96 Topic Count: 307 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 18,136 Content Per Day: 4.63 Reputation: 27,817 Days Won: 327 Joined: 08/03/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted September 10, 2013 Hi bestrfcplayer, Welcome to Worthy....glad you could join us.You ask if there has been any non-Biblical proof that Jesus was resurrected,as far as written documentation goes,the simple answer is no.However, there is historical evidence that He did exist and was put to death by crucifixion under Pontuis Pilate in the writings of Flavius Josephus,Cornelius Tacitus,Jewish Sanhedrin and Lucian of Samosata...... Studying the Bible really does present irrefutable written documentation of His resurrection but I will not go into that because that is not what you asked for. I can give you my personal testimony,how I know He truly was risen from the dead and that He lives because when I asked Jesus to be my Lord and Savior I was resurrected by Him into a new person(I was dead in sin)....He is alive in me.I won't go into that either unless you wanted me to,and of course I would be happy to. I do hope you find whatever it is you are looking for,here at Worthy,please feel free to ask any questions you may have about our faith and we will do our best to answer them,either from our personal experiences or the God inspired Word as written in the Holy Bible. With love,in Christ-Kwik Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mcgyver Posted September 11, 2013 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 4 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 321 Content Per Day: 0.05 Reputation: 80 Days Won: 2 Joined: 11/28/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/03/1957 Share Posted September 11, 2013 Can you prove that Jesus is lord and savor based on sources other than the Bible? Have you ever studied in-depth the resurrection of Jesus? Where can you prove that Jesus resurrected without using the Bible? Well, I have to get ready to run out...but I will return to elaborate...but we have sources such as Roman records that are referred to by early apologists (i.e. They make a statement, and then tell Caesar to "check it out" against the official records of Rome), we have a plethora of writings from those hostile to Christianity who, in their attempts to disprove Christianity; actually give witness to the accuracy of the gospel accounts...and things of the like. So yes, there is a lot of independent corroboration of the resurrection account. I wanted to bring this forward, and give you some things to think about as corroboration of the resurrection account. (Mods, if I'm hijacking the thread here...please move this where ever it needs to be). As the first item, I'd like to present the lives of the Apostles subsequent to the resurrection of Christ...and rather than re-inventing the wheel I'd like to quote Dr. George Hill. Concerning the resurrection he writes: "But if not withstanding every appearance of truth, you suppose their testimony to be false, then inexplicable circumstances of glaring absurdity crowd upon you. You must suppose that twelve men of mean birth, of no education, living in that humble station which placed ambitious views out of their reach and far from their thoughts, without any aid from the state, formed the noblest scheme which ever entered into the mind of man, adopted the most daring means of executing that scheme, and conducted it with such address as to conceal the imposture under the semblance of simplicity and virtue. You must suppose that men guilty of blasphemy and falsehood, united in an attempt the best contrived, and which has in fact proved the most successful, for making the world virtuous; that they formed this singular enterprise without seeking any advantage to themselves, with an avowed contempt of loss and profit, and with the certain expectation of scorn and persecution; that although conscious of one another's villainy, none of them ever thought of providing for his own security by disclosing the fraud, but that amidst sufferings the most grievous to flesh and blood they persevered in their conspiracy to cheat the world into piety, honesty and benevolence. Truly, they who can swallow such suppositions have no title to object to miracles." (Dr. George Hill, Lectures in Divinity Vol 1) Keeping in mind (as mentioned earlier) that every one of the Apostles except John were martyred for their faith...this gives powerful evidence that Jesus did in fact appear to them alive and well after His crucifixion. These men scattered like cockroaches when the light is turned on, out of abject fear when Jesus was tried and crucified. Peter went as far as to deny that he even knew Jesus (three times). Something that is often missed is that Jesus was not crucified under the charge of blasphemy (the Romans could care less about blasphemy), the charge against Jesus was sedition (he makes himself a king...we have one king, Caesar...the sign over His cross bearing the charge "King of the Jews"...et.al.); and the normal procedure for the Romans was to execute not only the seditionist, but all close associates of the seditionist! So we must ask ourselves: "What singular event could turn these frightened, disheartened men in hiding into bold evangelists proclaiming that Jesus is alive?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkNigro Posted September 18, 2013 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 12 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 428 Content Per Day: 0.11 Reputation: 61 Days Won: 3 Joined: 07/10/2013 Status: Offline Author Share Posted September 18, 2013 Jesus is Lord God Almighty Jesus acknowledges what Thomas said in John 20:28 is true. Therefore, Jesus declared Himself to be God Almighty by the acknowledgment, since there is only one God. John 20:28-29 28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God. 29 Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed. In the following verse Jesus declares that He is "I AM." That is a direct reference to God Almighty. John 8:58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I AM. Jesus declared that He and His Father are one. That makes Him God. John 10:30 I and my Father are one. There are many passages in the Holy Bible that declare that Jesus Christ is Lord God Almighty. There are none that declare otherwise. Jesus created the world and all things. God Almighty created all things. Jesus is God Almighty. John 1:1-3,10-11,14 1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2The same was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. 10 He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not. 11He came unto his own, and his own received him not. 14And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth. Colossians 1:14-17 14In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins: 15Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: 16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: 17And he is before all things, and by him all things consist. Genesis 1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. Hebrews 3:4 For every house is builded by some man; but he that built all things is God. There is only one “the Lord,” that is God. Jesus is the Lord, and therefore God. 1 Corinthians 12:3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost. Deuteronomy 4:35 Unto thee it was shewed, that thou mightest know that the Lord he is God; there is none else beside him. 1 Corinthians 15:47 The first man is of the earth, earthy; the second man is the Lord from heaven. Acts 9:4-6,10-11,15,17,27 4And he fell to the earth, and heard a voice saying unto him, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me? 5And he said, Who art thou, Lord? And the Lord said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest: it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks. 6And he trembling and astonished said, Lord, what wilt thou have me to do? And the Lord said unto him, Arise, and go into the city, and it shall be told thee what thou must do. 10And there was a certain disciple at Damascus, named Ananias; and to him said the Lord in a vision, Ananias. And he said, Behold, I am here, Lord. 11And the Lord said unto him, Arise, and go into the street which is called Straight, and enquire in the house of Judas for one called Saul, of Tarsus: for, behold, he prayeth, 15But the Lord said unto him, Go thy way: for he is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel: 17And Ananias went his way, and entered into the house; and putting his hands on him said, Brother Saul, the Lord, even Jesus, that appeared unto thee in the way as thou camest, hath sent me, that thou mightest receive thy sight, and be filled with the Holy Ghost. 27But Barnabas took him, and brought him to the apostles, and declared unto them how he had seen the Lord in the way, and that he had spoken to him, and how he had preached boldly at Damascus in the name of Jesus. Isaiah 7:14 Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel. Matthew 1:21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins. Matthew 1:23 Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us. Isaiah 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace. John 14:9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Show us the Father? Revelation 19:13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God. The triune God, aka the Trinity, is declared. 1 John 5:7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. The triune God Almighty is revealed. Notice name is singular not plural. Matthew 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: Again the triune God is revealed. Notice the 3 plurals. Gen 1:26-27 26And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness … 27So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them. 1 Timothy 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory. Titus 2:13 Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ; Romans 9:5 Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen. John 3:31 He that cometh from above is above all: he that is of the earth is earthly, and speaketh of the earth: he that cometh from heaven is above all. Romans 5:8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. 1 John 3:16 Hereby perceive we the love of God, because he laid down his life for us: and we ought to lay down our lives for the brethren. Acts 20:28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood. Hebrews 1:8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom. Philippians 2:5-6 5Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: 6Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: Colossians 2:9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. Romans 14:9-11 9 For to this end Christ both died, and rose, and revived, that he might be Lord both of the dead and living. 10 But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ. 11 For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God. Acts 16:30-32,34 30And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved? 31And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house. 32And they spake unto him the word of the Lord, and to all that were in his house. 34And when he had brought them into his house, he set meat before them, and rejoiced, believing in God with all his house. Hebrews 1:6 And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him. Hebrews 7:3 Without father, without mother, without descent, having neither beginning of days, nor end of life; but made like unto the Son of God; abideth a priest continually. 1 John 1:1-2 1That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life; 2(For the life was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and shew unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us;) Philippians 2:9-11 9Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name: 10That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; 11And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father. Ephesians 1:21-22 21Far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come: 22And hath put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church, Acts 10:36 The word which God sent unto the children of Israel, preaching peace by Jesus Christ: (he is Lord of all Romans 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his. Revelation 22:6, 13,16 6And he said unto me, These sayings are faithful and true: and the Lord God of the holy prophets sent his angel to shew unto his servants the things which must shortly be done. 13 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last. 16 I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star. Acts 7:59 And they stoned Stephen, calling upon God, and saying, Lord Jesus, receive my spirit. There is only one Saviour and that is God. Jesus is the Saviour. Jesus is God. Titus 1:3-4 3But hath in due times manifested his word through preaching, which is committed unto me according to the commandment of God our Saviour; 4To Titus, mine own son after the common faith: Grace, mercy, and peace, from God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ our Saviour. Titus 2:10,13 10Not purloining, but shewing all good fidelity; that they may adorn the doctrine of God our Saviour in all things. 13Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ; Titus 3:4,6 4But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared, 6Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour; Isaiah 43:11 I, even I, am the Lord; and beside me there is no saviour. Hosea 13:4 Yet I am the Lord thy God from the land of Egypt, and thou shalt know no god but me: for there is no saviour beside me. Exodus 20:10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the Lord thy God … Mark 2:28 Therefore the Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath. 1 Timothy 6:14-15 14That thou keep this commandment without spot, unrebukable, until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ: 15Which in his times he shall shew, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords; Revelation 17:14 These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful. Revelation 19:16 And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, King Of Kings, And Lord Of Lords. Deuteronomy 10:17 For the Lord your God is God of gods, and Lord of lords, a great God, a mighty, and a terrible, which regardeth not persons, nor taketh reward: Psalm 136:3 O give thanks to the Lord of lords: for his mercy endureth for ever. Zechariah 12:10 And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn. Matthew 3:3 For this is he that was spoken of by the prophet Esaias, saying, The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make his paths straight. John 1:23 He said, I am the voice of one crying in the wilderness, Make straight the way of the Lord, as said the prophet Esaias. Isaiah 40:3 The voice of him that crieth in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the LORD, make straight in the desert a highway for our God. John 5:18 Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God. John 3:13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven. Jesus said only God could be worshipped. Matthew 4:10 Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve. Jesus receives worship therefore He is God. Matthew 2:8 And he sent them to Bethlehem, and said, Go and search diligently for the young child; and when ye have found him, bring me word again, that I may come and worship him also. Matthew 2:11 And when they were come into the house, they saw the young child with Mary his mother, and fell down, and worshipped him: and when they had opened their treasures, they presented unto him gifts; gold, and frankincense and myrrh. Matthew 8:2 And, behold, there came a leper and worshipped him, saying, Lord, if thou wilt, thou canst make me clean. Matthew 9:18 While he spake these things unto them, behold, there came a certain ruler, and worshipped him, saying, My daughter is even now dead: but come and lay thy hand upon her, and she shall live. Matthew 14:33 Then they that were in the ship came and worshipped him, saying, Of a truth thou art the Son of God. Matthew 15:25 Then came she and worshipped him, saying, Lord, help me. Matthew 20:20 Then came to him the mother of Zebedees children with her sons, worshipping him, and desiring a certain thing of him. Matthew 28:9 And as they went to tell his disciples, behold, Jesus met them, saying, All hail. And they came and held him by the feet, and worshipped him. Matthew 28:17 And when they saw him, they worshipped him: but some doubted. Mark 5:6 But when he saw Jesus afar off, he ran and worshipped him, Luke 24:52 And they worshipped him, and returned to Jerusalem with great joy: John 9:38 And he said, Lord, I believe. And he worshipped him. Jesus Christ said: John 5:23 That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him. We are to honor the Father as God Almighty. We must then honor Jesus Christ as God Almighty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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