The deteriorating perception of nudity

[TsukinoRei]

Hi TR, if I may ask you something -

 

What  do you understand the Bible say about exposing nakedness? Is it looked upon as a good thing, a not so good thing, a shameful thing, or something else?

 

Thank you for asking, Nebula.    

I think that Mr Westin hit the nail on the head when he said this on page 2 of this thread;

 

 

 

 

Genesis 3

21 Also for Adam and his wife the Lord God made tunics of skin, and clothed them.

 

 

we see God had no problem with them being nude before the fruit incident, so it was only them that now had the problem with their own nudity, I'm not for nudity at all I'm just saying before the fall nudity wasn't an issue

 

 

When God gave clothing to Adam and Eve it was because of their own shame.  That shame came from their sin, from the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil.  The shame at their nakedness did not come from God.  Lust is also an issue.  When modesty is described in the Bible I see that modesty involves both not trying to cause others to lust after our bodies and not trying to cause others to lust after our possessions - which is why we see verses about modesty referring to costly adornments.  What styles of clothing, and which parts of the body, are considered immodest changes from culture to culture and from time period to time period.  There was a time and place where the sexiest part of a woman's body was her ankle, and an exposed ankle was a sign of a prostitute.  There are tribes where it is the norm for men and women to walk around their village almost entirely nude, without lusting after one another; yet they still have an understanding of modesty and there are behaviours which would be considered lewd and immodest.

 

There is another example of human beings wanting something and God granting it to them not because it is His desire, but because it is man-kinds desire and He is merciful.  Israel begged for a King, a human ruler, so that they would be like the other nations.

 

 

1 Samuel 8 And it came about when Samuel was old that he appointed his sons judges over Israel. 2 Now the name of his firstborn was Joel, and the name of his second, Abijah; they were judging in Beersheba. 3 His sons, however, did not walk in his ways, but turned aside after dishonest gain and took bribes and perverted justice.

4 Then all the elders of Israel gathered together and came to Samuel at Ramah; 5 and they said to him, “Behold, you have grown old, and your sons do not walk in your ways. Now appoint a king for us to judge us like all the nations.”6 But the thing was [a]displeasing in the sight of Samuel when they said, “Give us a king to judge us.” And Samuel prayed to the Lord. 7 The Lord said to Samuel, “Listen to the voice of the people in regard to all that they say to you, for they have not rejected you, but they have rejected Me from being king over them. 8 Like all the deeds which they have done since the day that I brought them up from Egypt even to this day—in that they have forsaken Me and served other gods—so they are doing to you also. 9 Now then, listen to their voice; however, you shall solemnly [b]warn them and tell them of the [c]procedure of the king who will reign over them.”

 

I realize that this seems off topic, but I wanted to illustrate this principle. Just because God grants us something we ask for (like clothes or Kings) doesn't mean the thing that we want is good in His sight or brings us closer to Him.  We are free to live as we choose and bare the consequences of our choices. When within any given culture any part of the body is given special attention to being covered, the uncovering of that part of the body in public becomes a scandal, a shaming, and an object of lust to those people.  This has included necks, wrists, ankles, elbows, knees....   Humans finding these things shameful does not make them shameful before God.  God examines the motives the heart.  I think that nudity is not in itself a sin, but rather our reasons for it and our responses to it can be sinful.

 

A thing that I think that we can both agree on whole-heartedly is that it is truly a terrible thing when men and women are objectified and taught to pin their self-worth on their ability to attract lust.  Beauty is fleeting, the fruit of the spirit is eternal.

[missmuffet]

          

Hey man you sure are munching down on that popcorn  Ya got butter on it?

[Guest man]

 

          

Hey man you sure are munching down on that popcorn  Ya got butter on it?

 

 

 

Always.   

[TsukinoRei]

 

Hi TR, if I may ask you something -

 

What  do you understand the Bible say about exposing nakedness? Is it looked upon as a good thing, a not so good thing, a shameful thing, or something else?

 

Thank you for asking, Nebula.    

I think that Mr Westin hit the nail on the head when he said this on page 2 of this thread;

 

 

 

 

Genesis 3

21 Also for Adam and his wife the Lord God made tunics of skin, and clothed them.

 

 

we see God had no problem with them being nude before the fruit incident, so it was only them that now had the problem with their own nudity, I'm not for nudity at all I'm just saying before the fall nudity wasn't an issue

 

 

When God gave clothing to Adam and Eve it was because of their own shame.  That shame came from their sin, from the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil.  The shame at their nakedness did not come from God.  Lust is also an issue.  When modesty is described in the Bible I see that modesty involves both not trying to cause others to lust after our bodies and not trying to cause others to lust after our possessions - which is why we see verses about modesty referring to costly adornments.  What styles of clothing, and which parts of the body, are considered immodest changes from culture to culture and from time period to time period.  There was a time and place where the sexiest part of a woman's body was her ankle, and an exposed ankle was a sign of a prostitute.  There are tribes where it is the norm for men and women to walk around their village almost entirely nude, without lusting after one another; yet they still have an understanding of modesty and there are behaviours which would be considered lewd and immodest.

 

There is another example of human beings wanting something and God granting it to them not because it is His desire, but because it is man-kinds desire and He is merciful.  Israel begged for a King, a human ruler, so that they would be like the other nations.

 

 

1 Samuel 8 And it came about when Samuel was old that he appointed his sons judges over Israel. 2 Now the name of his firstborn was Joel, and the name of his second, Abijah; they were judging in Beersheba. 3 His sons, however, did not walk in his ways, but turned aside after dishonest gain and took bribes and perverted justice.

4 Then all the elders of Israel gathered together and came to Samuel at Ramah; 5 and they said to him, “Behold, you have grown old, and your sons do not walk in your ways. Now appoint a king for us to judge us like all the nations.”6 But the thing was [a]displeasing in the sight of Samuel when they said, “Give us a king to judge us.” And Samuel prayed to the Lord. 7 The Lord said to Samuel, “Listen to the voice of the people in regard to all that they say to you, for they have not rejected you, but they have rejected Me from being king over them. 8 Like all the deeds which they have done since the day that I brought them up from Egypt even to this day—in that they have forsaken Me and served other gods—so they are doing to you also. 9 Now then, listen to their voice; however, you shall solemnly [b]warn them and tell them of the [c]procedure of the king who will reign over them.”

 

I realize that this seems off topic, but I wanted to illustrate this principle. Just because God grants us something we ask for (like clothes or Kings) doesn't mean the thing that we want is good in His sight or brings us closer to Him.  We are free to live as we choose and bare the consequences of our choices. When within any given culture any part of the body is given special attention to being covered, the uncovering of that part of the body in public becomes a scandal, a shaming, and an object of lust to those people.  This has included necks, wrists, ankles, elbows, knees....   Humans finding these things shameful does not make them shameful before God.  God examines the motives the heart.  I think that nudity is not in itself a sin, but rather our reasons for it and our responses to it can be sinful.

 

A thing that I think that we can both agree on whole-heartedly is that it is truly a terrible thing when men and women are objectified and taught to pin their self-worth on their ability to attract lust.  Beauty is fleeting, the fruit of the spirit is eternal.

 

 

 What are your thoughts on the above, Nebula?

[nebula]

 What are your thoughts on the above, Nebula?

 

Sorry, I had to think about how to respond . . . and then life got in the way.

 

It's an interesting perspective that you have, but I cannot necessarily agree with it. For I cannot reconcile this with everything the Bible has to say about nakedness - by any application of the word.

[TsukinoRei]

 

 What are your thoughts on the above, Nebula?

 

Sorry, I had to think about how to respond . . . and then life got in the way.

 

It's an interesting perspective that you have, but I cannot necessarily agree with it. For I cannot reconcile this with everything the Bible has to say about nakedness - by any application of the word.

 

 

Well, thank you for considering it.   It's interesting, the variety of views that can arise from reading the same passages.

[enoob57]

Oh how some stretch at the tie that binds.... or are not tied at all- 

Gen 3:10

10 So he said, "I heard Your voice in the garden, and I was afraid because I was naked; and I hid myself."
NKJV

Gen 3:21

21 Also for Adam and his wife the Lord God made tunics of skin, and clothed them.
NKJV

To cast off the clothes is to cast off the provision of God for acceptance... if you can be naked before God

and others and not be ashamed then I suggest perhaps it is not the same God that was before Adam and Eve

or the same heart which was not thoroughly soaked in sin- What God has done let no man undue!   Love, Steven

[JDavis]

Oh how some stretch at the tie that binds.... or are not tied at all-

Gen 3:10

10 So he said, "I heard Your voice in the garden, and I was afraid because I was naked; and I hid myself."

NKJV

Gen 3:21

21 Also for Adam and his wife the Lord God made tunics of skin, and clothed them.

NKJV

To cast off the clothes is to cast off the provision of God for acceptance... if you can be naked before God

and others and not be ashamed then I suggest perhaps it is not the same God that was before Adam and Eve

or the same heart which was not thoroughly soaked in sin- What God has done let no man undue! Love, Steven

God made them naked, they stayed naked for their entire time in the garden, which was spent with God.

Clearly God did not have an issue with their nudity.

The issue with nudity is man's issue, not Gods.

We will all stand naked before God...and none of us will care.

[nebula]

God made them naked, they stayed naked for their entire time in the garden, which was spent with God.

Clearly God did not have an issue with their nudity.

The issue with nudity is man's issue, not Gods.

We will all stand naked before God...and none of us will care.

 

 

If that is true, why is it mentioned in Revelation people will be given robes to wear?

[enoob57]

 

Oh how some stretch at the tie that binds.... or are not tied at all-

Gen 3:10

10 So he said, "I heard Your voice in the garden, and I was afraid because I was naked; and I hid myself."

NKJV

Gen 3:21

21 Also for Adam and his wife the Lord God made tunics of skin, and clothed them.

NKJV

To cast off the clothes is to cast off the provision of God for acceptance... if you can be naked before God

and others and not be ashamed then I suggest perhaps it is not the same God that was before Adam and Eve

or the same heart which was not thoroughly soaked in sin- What God has done let no man undue! Love, Steven

God made them naked, they stayed naked for their entire time in the garden, which was spent with God.

Clearly God did not have an issue with their nudity.

It wasn't an issue because they didn't know about naked... tell me you can do that now!

The issue with nudity is man's issue, not Gods.

We will all stand naked before God...and none of us will care.

 

The issue with rebellion is not staying in the place where God keeps us... you clearly think you have authority to

go back before original sin and form spiritual realties... I believe that we are to remain where God has us and operate

in those realities according to His Word till he takes me to different place and realties!

Rom 12:2

2 And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your

mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God.

NKJV

another way to see this is

1 John 1:7

7 But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another,

and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin.

NKJV

The light is His Word and to this we are to conform- not our willy nilly thoughts outside

of this reality-> in which we are held in by God...

 

This is the war:

Rom 7:21-25

21 I find then a law, that evil is present with me, the one who wills to do good. 22 For I

delight in the law of God according to the inward man. 23 But I see another law in my

members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law

of sin which is in my members. 24 O wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from

this body of death? 25 I thank God — through Jesus Christ our Lord!

NKJV

So right now I am tied to this body of death and my job is to bring it into conformity to

God's Word to bring Him Glory... keeping it covered with reverence to the way He showed

me long ago in submission to Him till God removes me from this flesh....

Love, Steven