Where is the true Law of God?

[Porque77]

 

These are the commandments of the Gospel, which are very different to the commandments of the Old Testament, for all the commandments of the Gospel are merciful, but many Old Testament commandments commands death sentences, wars and slavery.

 

Wherefore the Lord said, Forasmuch as this people draw near me with their mouth, and with their lips do honour me, but have removed their heart far from me, and their fear toward me is taught by the precept of men:

 

 

The Mosaic covenant and law were given by God, but after the years and centuries, the prophets tell us that the scribes changed the law of God. So tell us the prophets:

 

" ... My people know not the judgment of Yahweh. How do ye say, We are wise, and the law of the LORD is with us ? Certainly has changed into a lie the lying pen of the scribes" (Jeremiah 8:7-9) .

 

"Woe to those who give wicked laws and scribes who write tyrannical prescriptions to set aside the poor and violate the rights of the underdog of my people, to rob widows and orphans" (Isaiah 10.1 -2)

"And the land is defiled under its inhabitants, because they have transgressed the laws, changed the commandments, broken the everlasting covenant" (Isaiah 24:5-6).

"He says, therefore, the Lord : Because this people draw near me with their mouth, and honor me with their lips, but their heart is far from Me, and their fear of me is a commandment of men which have been taught" (Isaiah 29.13).

And Jesus Christ, remembering the words of the prophet Isaiah, also told the scribes and Pharisees who were teaching the commandments of men :

"Hypocrites, well did Isaiah prophesy of you, saying,

This people honors me with their lips;

But their heart is far from me.

But in vain they do worship me,

Teaching for doctrines commandments of men" (Matthew 15.7-9

Dear friend, this is what happened, what the prophets tell us: that God's law was changed by the scribes. This is for what the Old Testament Law is direrent to the commandments of Jesus Christ.

[Porque77]

 

Where is the true Law of God?

 

 

Mark 12

28 Then one of the scribes came, and having heard them reasoning together, perceiving that He had answered them well, asked Him, "Which is the first commandment of all?"

 

 

29 Jesus answered him, "The first of all the commandments is: 'Hear, O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is one. 

30 And you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your mind, and with all your strength.' This is the first commandment. 

 

31 And the second, like it, is this: 'You shall love your neighbor as yourself.' There is no other commandment greater than these."

 

 

 

That commandment "is the great and first commandment", but not all the Law that Jesus Christ commands us in the Gospel ... Now I put the commandments of Jesus Christ:

 

The Law of God taught by Jesus Christ

"Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets" (Matthew 7:12)

 

What God wants is the mercy  

 

"If you had known what this means, I want mercy and not sacrifice, you wouldn’t have condemned the innocent"   (Matthew 12:7)

 

Jesus commanded to forgive seventy times seven:

"Then Peter came and said: Lord, how many times shall I forgive my brother when he sins against me? Till seven? Jesus said: I tell you, not seven times, but seventy times seven." (Matthew 18 :21-22)

 

Jesus speaks to the  pharisees about the Law

 

When the Pharisees heard that Jesus had left the Sadducees speechless, they met together. One of them, a legal expert, tested him. Teacher, what is the greatest commandment in the Law? He replied, “You must love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your being, and with all your mind. This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: You must love your neighbor as you love yourself. All the Law and the Prophets depend on these two commands”  (Matthew 22:34-40)

 

Jesus teaches to a rich man, the precepts of the Law

 

"And behold, one came to him and said, Teacher, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?   And he said unto him, Why askest thou me concerning that which is good? One there is who is good: but if thou wouldest enter into life, keep the commandments.   He saith unto him, Which? And Jesus said, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,  Honor thy father and mother; and, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself.  The young man saith unto him, All these things have I observed: what lack I yet?   Jesus said unto him, If thou wouldest be perfect, go, sell that which thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, follow me.   But when the young man heard the saying, he went away sorrowful; for he was one that had great possessions"  (Matthew 19:16-22)

 

These are the commandments of the Gospel, which are very different to the commandments of the Old Testament, for all the commandments of the Gospel are merciful, but many Old Testament commandments commands death sentences, wars and slavery.  All the commandments of the Old Testament that bear no mercy were abolished by Jesus Christ. 

[Guest man]

Where is the true Law of God?

 

 

 

 

 

Mark 12

28 Then one of the scribes came, and having heard them reasoning together, perceiving that He had answered them well, asked Him, "Which is the first commandment of all?"

 

 

29 Jesus answered him, "The first of all the commandments is: 'Hear, O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is one. 

30 And you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your mind, and with all your strength.' This is the first commandment. 

 

31 And the second, like it, is this: 'You shall love your neighbor as yourself.' There is no other commandment greater than these."

 

 

 

 

[GoldenEagle]

 

You say that all the commandments for you is the same, but Jesus Christ abolished many precepts of the Old Testament, precepts that were contrary to the precepts of the Gospel.

 

Jesus abolished many commandments of the Old Testament because they were not God's law. The Gospel says :

"It was also said, 'Whoever divorces his wife must give her a certificate of divorce . Nevertheless I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for the cause of prostitution , makes her commit adultery , and whoever marries a divorced , commits adultery" (Matthew 5 : 31-32)

 

The jews of that time wrote in the law of the Old Testament that could separated from women for many reasons when they tired of them, but Jesus abolished these commandments . These commandments were written into the Old Testament and Jesus Christ abolished them.

 

I'm not sure that you are using the term "abolished" correctly.

Abolish - Verb

formally put an end to (a system, practice, or institution).

Re: Matt. 5:31-32

 

Notice God didn’t abolish marriage or divorce. Here the passage says the exception as allowance for divorce is sexual immorality (porneia in the Greek). What version of the Bible is this that quotes Matthew 5:31-32 and uses the word “prostitution” instead of “fornication”, “adultery”, or “sexual immorality”? The word in the Greek for this term in “porneia.”

from: http://www.godrules.net/library/strongs2b/gre4202.htm

Word: porneia

Pronounce: por-ni'-ah

Strongs Number: G4202

Orig: from 4203; harlotry (including adultery and incest); figuratively, idolatry:--sexual immorality. G4203

Use: TDNT-6:579,918 Noun Feminine

Heb Strong: H2183 H8457

1) illicit(unlawful) sexual intercourse

1a) adultery, sexual immorality, homosexuality, intercourse with animals etc.

1b) sexual intercourse with close relatives; Lev. 18

1c) sexual intercourse with an unlawfully divorced man or woman; Mr 10:11,12

2) metaph. the worship of idols

2a) of the defilement of idolatry, as incurred by eating the sacrifices offered to idols

2b) any form of idolatry

 

So here Jesus instead of abolishing clarified what the law meant. Jesus was known for telling the people their righteousness had to be greater than the scribes and pharisees - perfection. Basically Jesus was pointing to their need for a Savior as nobody is perfect but God. What do you think?

Or perhaps I misunderstood you. Where in this passage does it show that Jesus abolished marriage or divorce?

God bless,

GE

[Porque77]

Where is the true Law of God?

 

 

Mark 12

28 Then one of the scribes came, and having heard them reasoning together, perceiving that He had answered them well, asked Him, "Which is the first commandment of all?"

 

29 Jesus answered him, "The first of all the commandments is: 'Hear, O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is one. 

30 And you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your mind, and with all your strength.' This is the first commandment. 

 

31 And the second, like it, is this: 'You shall love your neighbor as yourself.' There is no other commandment greater than these."

 

 

You forget these commandments:

 

The Law of God taught by Jesus Christ

"Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets" (Matthew 7:12)

 

What God wants is the mercy  

 

"If you had known what this means, I want mercy and not sacrifice, you wouldn’t have condemned the innocent"   (Matthew 12:7)

 

Jesus commanded to forgive seventy times seven:

"Then Peter came and said: Lord, how many times shall I forgive my brother when he sins against me? Till seven? Jesus said: I tell you, not seven times, but seventy times seven." (Matthew 18 :21-22)

 

Jesus speaks to the  pharisees about the Law

 

When the Pharisees heard that Jesus had left the Sadducees speechless, they met together. One of them, a legal expert, tested him. Teacher, what is the greatest commandment in the Law? He replied, “You must love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your being, and with all your mind. This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: You must love your neighbor as you love yourself. All the Law and the Prophets depend on these two commands”  (Matthew 22:34-40)

 

Jesus teaches to a rich man, the precepts of the Law

 

"And behold, one came to him and said, Teacher, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?   And he said unto him, Why askest thou me concerning that which is good? One there is who is good: but if thou wouldest enter into life, keep the commandments.   He saith unto him, Which? And Jesus said, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,  Honor thy father and mother; and, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself.  The young man saith unto him, All these things have I observed: what lack I yet?   Jesus said unto him, If thou wouldest be perfect, go, sell that which thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, follow me.   But when the young man heard the saying, he went away sorrowful; for he was one that had great possessions"  (Matthew 19:16-22)

 

These are the commandments of the Gospel, which are very different to the commandments of the Old Testament, for all the commandments of the Gospel are merciful, but many Old Testament commandments commands death sentences, wars and slavery.  All the commandments of the Old Testament that bear no mercy were abolished by Jesus Christ. 

Edited October 10, 2013 by Porque77

[GoldenEagle]

 

So, do you believe that God did not give the Mosaic covenant and law?

 

 

Hello, Qnts2.  The Mosaic covenant and law were given by God, but after the years and centuries, the prophets tell us that the scribes changed the law of God. So tell us the prophets:

 

"Woe to those who give wicked laws and scribes who write tyrannical prescriptions to set aside the poor and violate the rights of the underdog of my people, to rob widows and orphans" (Isaiah 10.1 -2)

"And the land is defiled under its inhabitants, because they have transgressed the laws, changed the commandments, broken the everlasting covenant" (Isaiah 24:5-6).

"He says, therefore, the Lord : Because this people draw near me with their mouth, and honor me with their lips, but their heart is far from Me, and their fear of me is a commandment of men which have been taught" (Isaiah 29.13).

And Jesus Christ, remembering the words of the prophet Isaiah, also told the scribes and Pharisees who were teaching the commandments of men :

"Hypocrites, well did Isaiah prophesy of you, saying,

This people honors me with their lips;

But their heart is far from me.

But in vain they do worship me,

Teaching for doctrines commandments of men" (Matthew 15.7-9

 

Dear friend, this is what I think happened, what the prophets tell us: that God's law was changed by the scribes. This is for what the Old Testament Law is direrente to the commandments of Jesus Christ.

 

 

and repeated here to FresnoJoe...

 

 

The Mosaic covenant and law were given by God, but after the years and centuries, the prophets tell us that the scribes changed the law of God. So tell us the prophets:

 

<snip>

Dear friend, this is what happened, what the prophets tell us: that God's law was changed by the scribes. This is for what the Old Testament Law is direrent to the commandments of Jesus Christ.

 

So you are saying that the Bible is full of errors as it was changed by scribes? Scripture would disagree with you friend. God promises to preserve His Word. Is God a liar? Is He not powerful enough to preserve His Word?

 

Psalm 12:6-7

⁶ The words of the Lord are pure words,

    like silver refined in a furnace on the ground,

    purified seven times.

⁷ You, O Lord, will keep them;

    you will guard us from this generation forever.

 

God cares about everyone of His words...Do you agree?

 

Proverbs 30:5-6

⁵ Every word of God proves true;

    he is a shield to those who take refuge in him.

⁶ Do not add to his words,

    lest he rebuke you and you be found a liar.

God will curse anyone who changes His Words...

Revelation 22:18-19

¹⁸ I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: if anyone adds to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book, ¹⁹ and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God will take away his share in the tree of life and in the holy city, which are described in this book.

 

God clearly directed every word and will not tolerate man's meddling with it. He calls them "His Words." I serve a God who is able to keep His promises and His words. What do you think?

God bless,

GE

[GoldenEagle]

 

To answer the original question...the Law of God that existed in the Old Testament, is the same Law that exists in the New Testatment........

..........The statues and judgements are not all done away but they were specifics that helped the Jews understand how to keep the 10 Commandments. The letter of these laws may change with the times, but the spirit of these laws are still intact.

 

So what was done away? The ceremonial laws relating to the death of Christ. All sacrifices, all commandments contained in ordinances are done away along with the penalty.

 

I see that the laws are not the same, because "an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth" is not the same as turning the other cheek to those who hurt us.

 

Some religions say that God gave to men different covenants in different times, but I do not see Jesus say that, because when Jesus gives us the Law, we read:

 

"All things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you , do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets." ( Matthew 7:12 )

 

I think this is the Law that God gave to men from the beginning. And this is the law forever.   God does not contradict.

 

Thanks, my friend.

 

So in red are you saying God didn't give the Covenant to Abraham? Or perhaps the Covenant with Moses and Israel? Or perhaps the covenant with humanity never to destroy the earth with water again (think Noah and the rainbow)?

Please explain further.

 

God bless,

GE

[Porque77]

 

 

You say that all the commandments for you is the same, but Jesus Christ abolished many precepts of the Old Testament, precepts that were contrary to the precepts of the Gospel.

 

Jesus abolished many commandments of the Old Testament because they were not God's law. The Gospel says :

"It was also said, 'Whoever divorces his wife must give her a certificate of divorce . Nevertheless I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for the cause of prostitution , makes her commit adultery , and whoever marries a divorced , commits adultery" (Matthew 5 : 31-32)

 

The jews of that time wrote in the law of the Old Testament that could separated from women for many reasons when they tired of them, but Jesus abolished these commandments . These commandments were written into the Old Testament and Jesus Christ abolished them.

 

I'm not sure that you are using the term "abolished" correctly.

 

Well if you're not sure if I'm using it right, you must appeal to the Gospel, because I just say what the Gospel says.

<<< See and >>>

Edited October 10, 2013 by GoldenEagle
changes in red to reference what has already been posted.

[GoldenEagle]

You say that all the commandments for you is the same, but Jesus Christ abolished many precepts of the Old Testament, precepts that were contrary to the precepts of the Gospel.

 

Jesus abolished many commandments of the Old Testament because they were not God's law. The Gospel says :

<snip>

"Again you have heard that it was said by them of old not swear falsely, but shall perform your oaths to the Lord. Nevertheless I tell you, Do not swear at all, either by heaven, for it is the throne of God, or by the earth, for is the footstool of his feet, or by Jerusalem, for it is the city of the great King. neither shalt thou swear by thy head, because you can not do a single white or black hair. But let your ' Yes, yes, no, no, because what is more than these cometh of evil" (Matthew 5: 33-37)

The Jews were accustomed to swear in many cases , and so wrote it in the laws of the Old Testament ... The Lord abolished these precepts of the oaths.

Again, here you state that Jesus abolished many OT commandments and then given an example. The issue with oaths is that it is taking the Lord's name in vain.

Again the definition of abolish...

Abolish - Verb

formally put an end to (a system, practice, or institution).

 

So really this is pointing to the OT Mosaic law that Jesus is expounding on... Notice He didn't do away with this law either.

Ex. 20:7

You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain, for the Lord will not hold him guiltless who takes his name in vain.

So far of the two illustrations given neither really shows that Jesus abolished the laws given in the OT. What do you think?

God bless,

GE

[GoldenEagle]

 

 

 

You say that all the commandments for you is the same, but Jesus Christ abolished many precepts of the Old Testament, precepts that were contrary to the precepts of the Gospel.

 

Jesus abolished many commandments of the Old Testament because they were not God's law. The Gospel says :

"It was also said, 'Whoever divorces his wife must give her a certificate of divorce . Nevertheless I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for the cause of prostitution , makes her commit adultery , and whoever marries a divorced , commits adultery" (Matthew 5 : 31-32)

 

The jews of that time wrote in the law of the Old Testament that could separated from women for many reasons when they tired of them, but Jesus abolished these commandments . These commandments were written into the Old Testament and Jesus Christ abolished them.

 

I'm not sure that you are using the term "abolished" correctly.

 

Well if you're not sure if I'm using it right, you must appeal to the Gospel, because I just say what the Gospel says.

<<< See and >>>

I have edited your post. No reason to keep repeating what you've already said in post 30 generally and in post 40 to me specifically.

 

As to the underlined... No, you're quoting the Scripture passages and giving your interpretation of these passages. I have appealed to Scripture see and This underlined is like saying "I'm right and you're wrong because you are questioning me." Not very useful in a discussion surely we can agree?

Also you didn't really address what I said in Please address what was said in the post and don't simply copy/paste to repeat yourself in what you've already said in another post? That is how a discussion is supposed to work. Please address these questions in red?

 

Re: Matt. 5:31-32

 

Notice God didn’t abolish marriage or divorce. Here the passage says the exception as allowance for divorce is sexual immorality (porneia in the Greek). What version of the Bible is this that quotes Matthew 5:31-32 and uses the word “prostitution” instead of “fornication”, “adultery”, or “sexual immorality”? The word in the Greek for this term in “porneia.”

So here Jesus instead of abolishing clarified what the law meant.

 

Where in this passage does it show that Jesus abolished marriage or divorce?

 

You are quoting what the Bible says this is true but I believe you are not using Scripture properly. You are saying it is saying something (in this case Jesus abolished laws in general terms) when in fact Scripture didn't point to this.

At least in the first two instances I will address the rest as the discussion progresses. In reality Jesus explained the law further in that 1. Jesus didn't abolish marriage/divorce see or 2. Jesus re-emphasized one of the 10 commandments not to take God's name in vain in this case with man-made irreverent oaths see ).

God bless,

GE