The rapture: fact or mystery?

[Spock]

Thunder,

Wow, you are asking me to give you a commentary on practically two chapters. Shame on you brother.

I will start here:

Now learn this lesson from the fig tree: As soon as its twigs get tender and its leaves come out, you know that summer is near. 33Even so, when you see all these things, you know that ite is near, right at the door. 34Truly I tell you, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened. 35Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away.

Spock's take: when you start to see the signs previously mentioned, get ready, time is short. This generation will not pass away means the Jews will not be exterminated. Generation = race

36“But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son,f but only the Father. 37As it was in the days of Noah, so it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. 38For in the days before the flood, people were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, up to the day Noah entered the ark; 39and they knew nothing about what would happen until the flood came and took them all away. That is how it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. 40Two men will be in the field; one will be taken and the other left. 41Two women will be grinding with a hand mill; one will be taken and the other left.

42“Therefore keep watch, because you do not know on what day your Lord will come. 43But understand this: If the owner of the house had known at what time of night the thief was coming, he would have kept watch and would not have let his house be broken into. 44So you also must be ready, because the Son of Man will come at an hour when you do not expect him.

Spock's take:no one knows when the rapture will take place. Yes, I believe he changed things up. See that article I referenced in my previous post. People will be living normal lives and poof, up goes the true body of Christ. Doesn't this just thrill you?

One man taken from the field, same thing. Rapture baby. One woman grinding is taken, rapture baby. Up, up, and away.

Keep watch and stay alert because the rapture will come suddenly at an hour you are not quite expecting.

1“At that time the kingdom of heaven will be like ten virgins who took their lamps and went out to meet the bridegroom. 2Five of them were foolish and five were wise. 3The foolish ones took their lamps but did not take any oil with them. 4The wise ones, however, took oil in jars along with their lamps. 5The bridegroom was a long time in coming, and they all became drowsy and fell asleep.

6“At midnight the cry rang out: ‘Here’s the bridegroom! Come out to meet him!’

7“Then all the virgins woke up and trimmed their lamps. 8The foolish ones said to the wise, ‘Give us some of your oil; our lamps are going out.’

9“ ‘No,’ they replied, ‘there may not be enough for both us and you. Instead, go to those who sell oil and buy some for yourselves.’

10“But while they were on their way to buy the oil, the bridegroom arrived. The virgins who were ready went in with him to the wedding banquet. And the door was shut.

11“Later the others also came. ‘Lord, Lord,’ they said, ‘open the door for us!’

12“But he replied, ‘Truly I tell you, I don’t know you.’

13“Therefore keep watch, because you do not know the day or the hour.

Spooks final take, I'm tired brother:

This seems like the rapture again. The virgins who were alert and ready got invited, the lazy ones didn't. Honestly, I'm not as dogmatic on this one. However, what seals it for me is when The Lord says, keep watch because you do not know the hour. It seems to me if this was just before his second coming you would be able to pretty much figure out when he will return. Add 1260 days after the abomination of desolation. Again, not dogmatic, but this is what I think.

Maybe if I read your book I would think differently. You may send me a signed copy if you like and I promise you I will read it. Lol seriously, I really do want to read it, so I plan on buying it soon.

Okay, I did as much as I can in one setting. My granddaughter now needs me.

Give your feedback on my score here. Did I pass?

Later,

Spock out

[Izzel]

 

 

 

The Rapture is not another name for the Second Coming. As 1 Thes. 4:15-17 and John 14:1-3 explain, the Rapture is an unscheduled secret event where Jesus comes part way to Earth to meet His Church in the air and take us to be with Him where He now is. I say unscheduled and secret because its specific timing will remain unknown until it actually happens. On the other hand, The Second Coming is a scheduled public event where Jesus comes all the way to Earth with His Church to establish a Kingdom here. I say scheduled and public because the general time of His coming will be known on Earth over 3 1/2 years in advance, and public because everyone on Earth will be able to witness His arrival. Matthew 24:29-30 says it will happen shortly after the Great Tribulation has ended and all the nations will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds in the sky.

Since we have been justified through Christ, and since GOD sees us as without sin, why then would we have to go through the same judgments as those who have rejected Christ and the free offer of salvation. Think about it.

There isn't one thing on this post that would cause me to raise an eyebrow. Nice

Next....

 

The phrase "unscheduled secret event" should cause you to raise an eyebrow considering Paul wrote something that directly contradicts this.

 

I Thessalonians  5 Now, brothers and sisters, about times and dates we do not need to write to you, ² for you know very well that the day of the Lord will come like a thief in the night. ³ While people are saying, “Peace and safety,” destruction will come on them suddenly, as labor pains on a pregnant woman, and they will not escape.

⁴ But you, brothers and sisters, are not in darkness so that this day should surprise you like a thief.

 

And what was this day of the thief all about?

 

Matthew 24:39  "That is how it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. ⁴⁰ Two men will be in the field; one will be taken and the other left. ⁴¹ Two women will be grinding with a hand mill; one will be taken and the other left.

⁴² “Therefore keep watch, because you do not know on what day your Lord will come. ⁴³ But understand this: If the owner of the house had known at what time of night the thief was coming, he would have kept watch and would not have let his house be broken into.

 

Jesus gives the clearest depiction of the rapture and attaches the sign of the thief to it.  Paul tells us that this day should not surprise us because we are children of the light, no secret, no unscheduled event.  Jesus tells us precisely when it will happen in Revelation as well, making it a clearly scheduled event at a very specific time.

 

Revelation 16:¹⁵ “Look, I come like a thief! Blessed is the one who stays awake and remains clothed, so as not to go naked and be shamefully exposed.”

¹⁶ Then they gathered the kings together to the place that in Hebrew is called Armageddon.

 

1 Thes.5 :3 doesn’t say “the whole world” it just says “people”.  But if the Day of the Lord doesn’t begin suddenly, why did the Lord warn the Jews in Israel to flee for the mountains on the very day the anti-Christ stands in the Temple, not even stopping for their coats?  And to pray that nothing would prevent them from leaving, like winter or the Sabbath Day? (Matt. 24:15-21)  The first event of the Great Tribulation is so sudden that the Lord himself has to rescue the fleeing Jews as if from a flash flood. (Rev. 12: 13-17)

Matthew 24, when taken in context, is Christ speaking to the Apostles about the timing of the end times events. They knew nothing of the Rapture as the Lord never talked about it. Paul is the one who first taught it, and was supported by Jesus' brother James. So, Matthew 24 is about the Jews, not the Church, which is not mentioned because it is not present.

 

Matthew 24 is about the Jews and not the church    

 

Are you saying that these veres are not for the church ?

 

 

Matthew 24

King James Version (KJV)

24 And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple.

2 And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.

3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?

4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.

5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.

6 And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.

7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.

8 All these are the beginning of sorrows.

9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.

[Izzel]

Thunder,

Wow, you are asking me to give you a commentary on practically two chapters. Shame on you brother.

I will start here:

Now learn this lesson from the fig tree: As soon as its twigs get tender and its leaves come out, you know that summer is near. 33Even so, when you see all these things, you know that ite is near, right at the door. 34Truly I tell you, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened. 35Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away.

Spock's take: when you start to see the signs previously mentioned, get ready, time is short. This generation will not pass away means the Jews will not be exterminated. Generation = race

36“But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son,f but only the Father. 37As it was in the days of Noah, so it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. 38For in the days before the flood, people were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, up to the day Noah entered the ark; 39and they knew nothing about what would happen until the flood came and took them all away. That is how it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. 40Two men will be in the field; one will be taken and the other left. 41Two women will be grinding with a hand mill; one will be taken and the other left.

42“Therefore keep watch, because you do not know on what day your Lord will come. 43But understand this: If the owner of the house had known at what time of night the thief was coming, he would have kept watch and would not have let his house be broken into. 44So you also must be ready, because the Son of Man will come at an hour when you do not expect him.

Spock's take:no one knows when the rapture will take place. Yes, I believe he changed things up. See that article I referenced in my previous post. People will be living normal lives and poof, up goes the true body of Christ. Doesn't this just thrill you?

One man taken from the field, same thing. Rapture baby. One woman grinding is taken, rapture baby. Up, up, and away.

Keep watch and stay alert because the rapture will come suddenly at an hour you are not quite expecting.

1“At that time the kingdom of heaven will be like ten virgins who took their lamps and went out to meet the bridegroom. 2Five of them were foolish and five were wise. 3The foolish ones took their lamps but did not take any oil with them. 4The wise ones, however, took oil in jars along with their lamps. 5The bridegroom was a long time in coming, and they all became drowsy and fell asleep.

6“At midnight the cry rang out: ‘Here’s the bridegroom! Come out to meet him!’

7“Then all the virgins woke up and trimmed their lamps. 8The foolish ones said to the wise, ‘Give us some of your oil; our lamps are going out.’

9“ ‘No,’ they replied, ‘there may not be enough for both us and you. Instead, go to those who sell oil and buy some for yourselves.’

10“But while they were on their way to buy the oil, the bridegroom arrived. The virgins who were ready went in with him to the wedding banquet. And the door was shut.

11“Later the others also came. ‘Lord, Lord,’ they said, ‘open the door for us!’

12“But he replied, ‘Truly I tell you, I don’t know you.’

13“Therefore keep watch, because you do not know the day or the hour.

Spooks final take, I'm tired brother:

This seems like the rapture again. The virgins who were alert and ready got invited, the lazy ones didn't. Honestly, I'm not as dogmatic on this one. However, what seals it for me is when The Lord says, keep watch because you do not know the hour. It seems to me if this was just before his second coming you would be able to pretty much figure out when he will return. Add 1260 days after the abomination of desolation. Again, not dogmatic, but this is what I think.

Maybe if I read your book I would think differently. You may send me a signed copy if you like and I promise you I will read it. Lol seriously, I really do want to read it, so I plan on buying it soon.

Okay, I did as much as I can in one setting. My granddaughter now needs me.

Give your feedback on my score here. Did I pass?

Later,

Spock out

 

 

Matthew 24:42-43

King James Version (KJV)

 

42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.

43 But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up.

These verses say nothing about the secret rapture, but only indicate Jesus will return like the thief who would come at an unknown and unexpected time.  The warning is for Christians to be ready at all times.

[Izzel]

it has been taught for  centuries that the saints will be secretly taken up to meet JESUS before the  tribulation.

The following  will prove  this is not a  fact ?

 

Where were the children of Israel when the plagues fell ?

 

Ex 8:22-23 see also Ex 9:4, 25-26

 

²²And I will sever in that day the land of Goshen, in which my people dwell, that no swarms of flies shall be there; to the end thou mayest know that I am the LORD in the midst of the earth.

 ²³And I will put a division between my people and thy people: to morrow shall this sign be.

 

Not God put a division between His people and the Egyptians 

 

So shall it be in this age the Church will go through the tribulation and be raptured after the tribulation 

[Guest]

 

 

 

 

The Rapture is not another name for the Second Coming. As 1 Thes. 4:15-17 and John 14:1-3 explain, the Rapture is an unscheduled secret event where Jesus comes part way to Earth to meet His Church in the air and take us to be with Him where He now is. I say unscheduled and secret because its specific timing will remain unknown until it actually happens. On the other hand, The Second Coming is a scheduled public event where Jesus comes all the way to Earth with His Church to establish a Kingdom here. I say scheduled and public because the general time of His coming will be known on Earth over 3 1/2 years in advance, and public because everyone on Earth will be able to witness His arrival. Matthew 24:29-30 says it will happen shortly after the Great Tribulation has ended and all the nations will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds in the sky.

Since we have been justified through Christ, and since GOD sees us as without sin, why then would we have to go through the same judgments as those who have rejected Christ and the free offer of salvation. Think about it.

There isn't one thing on this post that would cause me to raise an eyebrow. Nice

Next....

 

The phrase "unscheduled secret event" should cause you to raise an eyebrow considering Paul wrote something that directly contradicts this.

 

I Thessalonians  5 Now, brothers and sisters, about times and dates we do not need to write to you, ² for you know very well that the day of the Lord will come like a thief in the night. ³ While people are saying, “Peace and safety,” destruction will come on them suddenly, as labor pains on a pregnant woman, and they will not escape.

⁴ But you, brothers and sisters, are not in darkness so that this day should surprise you like a thief.

 

And what was this day of the thief all about?

 

Matthew 24:39  "That is how it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. ⁴⁰ Two men will be in the field; one will be taken and the other left. ⁴¹ Two women will be grinding with a hand mill; one will be taken and the other left.

⁴² “Therefore keep watch, because you do not know on what day your Lord will come. ⁴³ But understand this: If the owner of the house had known at what time of night the thief was coming, he would have kept watch and would not have let his house be broken into.

 

Jesus gives the clearest depiction of the rapture and attaches the sign of the thief to it.  Paul tells us that this day should not surprise us because we are children of the light, no secret, no unscheduled event.  Jesus tells us precisely when it will happen in Revelation as well, making it a clearly scheduled event at a very specific time.

 

Revelation 16:¹⁵ “Look, I come like a thief! Blessed is the one who stays awake and remains clothed, so as not to go naked and be shamefully exposed.”

¹⁶ Then they gathered the kings together to the place that in Hebrew is called Armageddon.

 

1 Thes.5 :3 doesn’t say “the whole world” it just says “people”.  But if the Day of the Lord doesn’t begin suddenly, why did the Lord warn the Jews in Israel to flee for the mountains on the very day the anti-Christ stands in the Temple, not even stopping for their coats?  And to pray that nothing would prevent them from leaving, like winter or the Sabbath Day? (Matt. 24:15-21)  The first event of the Great Tribulation is so sudden that the Lord himself has to rescue the fleeing Jews as if from a flash flood. (Rev. 12: 13-17)

Matthew 24, when taken in context, is Christ speaking to the Apostles about the timing of the end times events. They knew nothing of the Rapture as the Lord never talked about it. Paul is the one who first taught it, and was supported by Jesus' brother James. So, Matthew 24 is about the Jews, not the Church, which is not mentioned because it is not present.

 

Matthew 24 is about the Jews and not the church    

 

Are you saying that these veres are not for the church ?

 

 

Matthew 24

King James Version (KJV)

24 And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple.

2 And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.

3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?

4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.

5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.

6 And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.

7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.

8 All these are the beginning of sorrows.

9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.

 

Let me say this so it is clearly understood: Matthew 24 is not about the Church, Christ is speaking to his Disciples about the Second Coming. He never mentions the Church. It is not present. If the Jews had accepted Christ as their Messiah when He rose from the dead, than there would never even have been a Church. The clock for the final countdown would have immediately begun again (the final seven years). That is why Christ stayed on Earth for the 40 days. To give the Jews one last chance to accept him. He knew that they wouldn't but he gave them the chance anyway. And since they didn't, he ascended into heaven and the Church age began. Pretty simple to comprehend if you look. There, I have explained it. You have quoted it. Yet you don't see it. I can't be any clearer. Thanks for reading it though. God bless. I'm off to see the Wizard.....

[Izzel]

 

 

 

The phrase "unscheduled secret event" should cause you to raise an eyebrow considering Paul wrote something that directly contradicts this.

 

There isn't one thing on this post that would cause me to raise an eyebrow. Nice

Next....

The Rapture is not another name for the Second Coming. As 1 Thes. 4:15-17 and John 14:1-3 explain, the Rapture is an unscheduled secret event where Jesus comes part way to Earth to meet His Church in the air and take us to be with Him where He now is. I say unscheduled and secret because its specific timing will remain unknown until it actually happens. On the other hand, The Second Coming is a scheduled public event where Jesus comes all the way to Earth with His Church to establish a Kingdom here. I say scheduled and public because the general time of His coming will be known on Earth over 3 1/2 years in advance, and public because everyone on Earth will be able to witness His arrival. Matthew 24:29-30 says it will happen shortly after the Great Tribulation has ended and all the nations will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds in the sky.
Since we have been justified through Christ, and since GOD sees us as without sin, why then would we have to go through the same judgments as those who have rejected Christ and the free offer of salvation. Think about it.

 

 

I Thessalonians  5 Now, brothers and sisters, about times and dates we do not need to write to you, ² for you know very well that the day of the Lord will come like a thief in the night. ³ While people are saying, “Peace and safety,” destruction will come on them suddenly, as labor pains on a pregnant woman, and they will not escape.

⁴ But you, brothers and sisters, are not in darkness so that this day should surprise you like a thief.

 

And what was this day of the thief all about?

 

Matthew 24:39  "That is how it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. ⁴⁰ Two men will be in the field; one will be taken and the other left. ⁴¹ Two women will be grinding with a hand mill; one will be taken and the other left.

⁴² “Therefore keep watch, because you do not know on what day your Lord will come. ⁴³ But understand this: If the owner of the house had known at what time of night the thief was coming, he would have kept watch and would not have let his house be broken into.

 

Jesus gives the clearest depiction of the rapture and attaches the sign of the thief to it.  Paul tells us that this day should not surprise us because we are children of the light, no secret, no unscheduled event.  Jesus tells us precisely when it will happen in Revelation as well, making it a clearly scheduled event at a very specific time.

 

Revelation 16:¹⁵ “Look, I come like a thief! Blessed is the one who stays awake and remains clothed, so as not to go naked and be shamefully exposed.”

¹⁶ Then they gathered the kings together to the place that in Hebrew is called Armageddon.

 

1 Thes.5 :3 doesn’t say “the whole world” it just says “people”.  But if the Day of the Lord doesn’t begin suddenly, why did the Lord warn the Jews in Israel to flee for the mountains on the very day the anti-Christ stands in the Temple, not even stopping for their coats?  And to pray that nothing would prevent them from leaving, like winter or the Sabbath Day? (Matt. 24:15-21)  The first event of the Great Tribulation is so sudden that the Lord himself has to rescue the fleeing Jews as if from a flash flood. (Rev. 12: 13-17)

Matthew 24, when taken in context, is Christ speaking to the Apostles about the timing of the end times events. They knew nothing of the Rapture as the Lord never talked about it. Paul is the one who first taught it, and was supported by Jesus' brother James. So, Matthew 24 is about the Jews, not the Church, which is not mentioned because it is not present.

 

 

Are you saying that these veres are not for the church ?

 

 

Matthew 24

King James Version (KJV)

24 And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple.

2 And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.

3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?

4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.

5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.

6 And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.

7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.

8 All these are the beginning of sorrows.

9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.

 

Jesus is speaking to the Jews  the church and the world 

 

Tell us, when shall these things be?  for the Jews

 

 and what shall be the sign of thy coming, for  the world and the church 

 

and of the end of the world?  for the world 

 

Matthew 25:31-34

King James Version (KJV)

31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:

32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:

33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.

34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:

[Izzel]

 

 

 

 

 

The Rapture is not another name for the Second Coming. As 1 Thes. 4:15-17 and John 14:1-3 explain, the Rapture is an unscheduled secret event where Jesus comes part way to Earth to meet His Church in the air and take us to be with Him where He now is. I say unscheduled and secret because its specific timing will remain unknown until it actually happens. On the other hand, The Second Coming is a scheduled public event where Jesus comes all the way to Earth with His Church to establish a Kingdom here. I say scheduled and public because the general time of His coming will be known on Earth over 3 1/2 years in advance, and public because everyone on Earth will be able to witness His arrival. Matthew 24:29-30 says it will happen shortly after the Great Tribulation has ended and all the nations will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds in the sky.

Since we have been justified through Christ, and since GOD sees us as without sin, why then would we have to go through the same judgments as those who have rejected Christ and the free offer of salvation. Think about it.

There isn't one thing on this post that would cause me to raise an eyebrow. Nice

Next....

 

The phrase "unscheduled secret event" should cause you to raise an eyebrow considering Paul wrote something that directly contradicts this.

 

I Thessalonians  5 Now, brothers and sisters, about times and dates we do not need to write to you, ² for you know very well that the day of the Lord will come like a thief in the night. ³ While people are saying, “Peace and safety,” destruction will come on them suddenly, as labor pains on a pregnant woman, and they will not escape.

⁴ But you, brothers and sisters, are not in darkness so that this day should surprise you like a thief.

 

And what was this day of the thief all about?

 

Matthew 24:39  "That is how it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. ⁴⁰ Two men will be in the field; one will be taken and the other left. ⁴¹ Two women will be grinding with a hand mill; one will be taken and the other left.

⁴² “Therefore keep watch, because you do not know on what day your Lord will come. ⁴³ But understand this: If the owner of the house had known at what time of night the thief was coming, he would have kept watch and would not have let his house be broken into.

 

Jesus gives the clearest depiction of the rapture and attaches the sign of the thief to it.  Paul tells us that this day should not surprise us because we are children of the light, no secret, no unscheduled event.  Jesus tells us precisely when it will happen in Revelation as well, making it a clearly scheduled event at a very specific time.

 

Revelation 16:¹⁵ “Look, I come like a thief! Blessed is the one who stays awake and remains clothed, so as not to go naked and be shamefully exposed.”

¹⁶ Then they gathered the kings together to the place that in Hebrew is called Armageddon.

 

1 Thes.5 :3 doesn’t say “the whole world” it just says “people”.  But if the Day of the Lord doesn’t begin suddenly, why did the Lord warn the Jews in Israel to flee for the mountains on the very day the anti-Christ stands in the Temple, not even stopping for their coats?  And to pray that nothing would prevent them from leaving, like winter or the Sabbath Day? (Matt. 24:15-21)  The first event of the Great Tribulation is so sudden that the Lord himself has to rescue the fleeing Jews as if from a flash flood. (Rev. 12: 13-17)

Matthew 24, when taken in context, is Christ speaking to the Apostles about the timing of the end times events. They knew nothing of the Rapture as the Lord never talked about it. Paul is the one who first taught it, and was supported by Jesus' brother James. So, Matthew 24 is about the Jews, not the Church, which is not mentioned because it is not present.

 

Matthew 24 is about the Jews and not the church    

 

Are you saying that these veres are not for the church ?

 

 

Matthew 24

King James Version (KJV)

24 And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple.

2 And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.

3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?

4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.

5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.

6 And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.

7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.

8 All these are the beginning of sorrows.

9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.

 

Let me say this so it is clearly understood: Matthew 24 is not about the Church, Christ is speaking to his Disciples about the Second Coming. He never mentions the Church. It is not present. If the Jews had accepted Christ as their Messiah when He rose from the dead, than there would never even have been a Church. The clock for the final countdown would have immediately begun again (the final seven years). That is why Christ stayed on Earth for the 40 days. To give the Jews one last chance to accept him. He knew that they wouldn't but he gave them the chance anyway. And since they didn't, he ascended into heaven and the Church age began. Pretty simple to comprehend if you look. There, I have explained it. You have quoted it. Yet you don't see it. I can't be any clearer. Thanks for reading it though. God bless. I'm off to see the Wizard.....

 

The elect is God church 

 

Matthew 24:21-22

King James Version (KJV)

21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

[Montana Marv]

The elect are the remnant of Israel who go into the 1000 yr reign of Christ.

 

In Christ

Montana Marv

[missmuffet]

 

 

 

 

 

The Rapture is not another name for the Second Coming. As 1 Thes. 4:15-17 and John 14:1-3 explain, the Rapture is an unscheduled secret event where Jesus comes part way to Earth to meet His Church in the air and take us to be with Him where He now is. I say unscheduled and secret because its specific timing will remain unknown until it actually happens. On the other hand, The Second Coming is a scheduled public event where Jesus comes all the way to Earth with His Church to establish a Kingdom here. I say scheduled and public because the general time of His coming will be known on Earth over 3 1/2 years in advance, and public because everyone on Earth will be able to witness His arrival. Matthew 24:29-30 says it will happen shortly after the Great Tribulation has ended and all the nations will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds in the sky.

Since we have been justified through Christ, and since GOD sees us as without sin, why then would we have to go through the same judgments as those who have rejected Christ and the free offer of salvation. Think about it.

There isn't one thing on this post that would cause me to raise an eyebrow. Nice

Next....

 

The phrase "unscheduled secret event" should cause you to raise an eyebrow considering Paul wrote something that directly contradicts this.

 

I Thessalonians  5 Now, brothers and sisters, about times and dates we do not need to write to you, ² for you know very well that the day of the Lord will come like a thief in the night. ³ While people are saying, “Peace and safety,” destruction will come on them suddenly, as labor pains on a pregnant woman, and they will not escape.

⁴ But you, brothers and sisters, are not in darkness so that this day should surprise you like a thief.

 

And what was this day of the thief all about?

 

Matthew 24:39  "That is how it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. ⁴⁰ Two men will be in the field; one will be taken and the other left. ⁴¹ Two women will be grinding with a hand mill; one will be taken and the other left.

⁴² “Therefore keep watch, because you do not know on what day your Lord will come. ⁴³ But understand this: If the owner of the house had known at what time of night the thief was coming, he would have kept watch and would not have let his house be broken into.

 

Jesus gives the clearest depiction of the rapture and attaches the sign of the thief to it.  Paul tells us that this day should not surprise us because we are children of the light, no secret, no unscheduled event.  Jesus tells us precisely when it will happen in Revelation as well, making it a clearly scheduled event at a very specific time.

 

Revelation 16:¹⁵ “Look, I come like a thief! Blessed is the one who stays awake and remains clothed, so as not to go naked and be shamefully exposed.”

¹⁶ Then they gathered the kings together to the place that in Hebrew is called Armageddon.

 

1 Thes.5 :3 doesn’t say “the whole world” it just says “people”.  But if the Day of the Lord doesn’t begin suddenly, why did the Lord warn the Jews in Israel to flee for the mountains on the very day the anti-Christ stands in the Temple, not even stopping for their coats?  And to pray that nothing would prevent them from leaving, like winter or the Sabbath Day? (Matt. 24:15-21)  The first event of the Great Tribulation is so sudden that the Lord himself has to rescue the fleeing Jews as if from a flash flood. (Rev. 12: 13-17)

Matthew 24, when taken in context, is Christ speaking to the Apostles about the timing of the end times events. They knew nothing of the Rapture as the Lord never talked about it. Paul is the one who first taught it, and was supported by Jesus' brother James. So, Matthew 24 is about the Jews, not the Church, which is not mentioned because it is not present.

 

Matthew 24 is about the Jews and not the church    

 

Are you saying that these veres are not for the church ?

 

 

Matthew 24

King James Version (KJV)

24 And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple.

2 And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.

3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?

4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.

5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.

6 And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.

7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.

8 All these are the beginning of sorrows.

9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.

 

Let me say this so it is clearly understood: Matthew 24 is not about the Church, Christ is speaking to his Disciples about the Second Coming. He never mentions the Church. It is not present. If the Jews had accepted Christ as their Messiah when He rose from the dead, than there would never even have been a Church. The clock for the final countdown would have immediately begun again (the final seven years). That is why Christ stayed on Earth for the 40 days. To give the Jews one last chance to accept him. He knew that they wouldn't but he gave them the chance anyway. And since they didn't, he ascended into heaven and the Church age began. Pretty simple to comprehend if you look. There, I have explained it. You have quoted it. Yet you don't see it. I can't be any clearer. Thanks for reading it though. God bless. I'm off to see the Wizard.....

 

Yep...you got it 

[Spock]

The Rapture is not another name for the Second Coming. As 1 Thes. 4:15-17 and John 14:1-3 explain, the Rapture is an unscheduled secret event where Jesus comes part way to Earth to meet His Church in the air and take us to be with Him where He now is. I say unscheduled and secret because its specific timing will remain unknown until it actually happens. On the other hand, The Second Coming is a scheduled public event where Jesus comes all the way to Earth with His Church to establish a Kingdom here. I say scheduled and public because the general time of His coming will be known on Earth over 3 1/2 years in advance, and public because everyone on Earth will be able to witness His arrival. Matthew 24:29-30 says it will happen shortly after the Great Tribulation has ended and all the nations will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds in the sky.

Since we have been justified through Christ, and since GOD sees us as without sin, why then would we have to go through the same judgments as those who have rejected Christ and the free offer of salvation. Think about it.

There isn't one thing on this post that would cause me to raise an eyebrow. Nice

Next....

The phrase "unscheduled secret event" should cause you to raise an eyebrow considering Paul wrote something that directly contradicts this.

 

I Thessalonians  5 Now, brothers and sisters, about times and dates we do not need to write to you, ² for you know very well that the day of the Lord will come like a thief in the night. ³ While people are saying, “Peace and safety,” destruction will come on them suddenly, as labor pains on a pregnant woman, and they will not escape.

⁴ But you, brothers and sisters, are not in darkness so that this day should surprise you like a thief.

 

And what was this day of the thief all about?

 

Matthew 24:39  "That is how it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. ⁴⁰ Two men will be in the field; one will be taken and the other left. ⁴¹ Two women will be grinding with a hand mill; one will be taken and the other left.

⁴² “Therefore keep watch, because you do not know on what day your Lord will come. ⁴³ But understand this: If the owner of the house had known at what time of night the thief was coming, he would have kept watch and would not have let his house be broken into.

 

Jesus gives the clearest depiction of the rapture and attaches the sign of the thief to it.  Paul tells us that this day should not surprise us because we are children of the light, no secret, no unscheduled event.  Jesus tells us precisely when it will happen in Revelation as well, making it a clearly scheduled event at a very specific time.

 

Revelation 16:¹⁵ “Look, I come like a thief! Blessed is the one who stays awake and remains clothed, so as not to go naked and be shamefully exposed.”

¹⁶ Then they gathered the kings together to the place that in Hebrew is called Armageddon.

1 Thes.5 :3 doesn’t say “the whole world” it just says “people”.  But if the Day of the Lord doesn’t begin suddenly, why did the Lord warn the Jews in Israel to flee for the mountains on the very day the anti-Christ stands in the Temple, not even stopping for their coats?  And to pray that nothing would prevent them from leaving, like winter or the Sabbath Day? (Matt. 24:15-21)  The first event of the Great Tribulation is so sudden that the Lord himself has to rescue the fleeing Jews as if from a flash flood. (Rev. 12: 13-17)

Matthew 24, when taken in context, is Christ speaking to the Apostles about the timing of the end times events. They knew nothing of the Rapture as the Lord never talked about it. Paul is the one who first taught it, and was supported by Jesus' brother James. So, Matthew 24 is about the Jews, not the Church, which is not mentioned because it is not present.

Matthew 24 is about the Jews and not the church    

 

Are you saying that these veres are not for the church ?

 

 

Matthew 24

King James Version (KJV)

24 And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple.

2 And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.

3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?

4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.

5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.

6 And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.

7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.

8 All these are the beginning of sorrows.

9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.

Let me say this so it is clearly understood: Matthew 24 is not about the Church, Christ is speaking to his Disciples about the Second Coming. He never mentions the Church. It is not present. If the Jews had accepted Christ as their Messiah when He rose from the dead, than there would never even have been a Church. The clock for the final countdown would have immediately begun again (the final seven years). That is why Christ stayed on Earth for the 40 days. To give the Jews one last chance to accept him. He knew that they wouldn't but he gave them the chance anyway. And since they didn't, he ascended into heaven and the Church age began. Pretty simple to comprehend if you look. There, I have explained it. You have quoted it. Yet you don't see it. I can't be any clearer. Thanks for reading it though. God bless. I'm off to see the Wizard.....

Yep...you got it 

I live to get your thumbs up Peep.