Biblical support of Eternal Hellfire?

[donfish06]

 

 

1.Matthew 25:41

 

Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.

 

2. If forever and ever does not mean eternal then what does it mean?I guess alot of people are going to find out just how long eternal is unfortunately.You are not interpreting scripture in a literal sense.You are making alot of the meaning up.I can not help you.

1) You must be reading a liberal translation of the Bible. In original text is says "everlasting" which doesn't mean eternal all the time. "ever" is a period of time. 

 

G165

αἰών

aiōn

ahee-ohn'

From the same as G104; properly an age; by extension perpetuity (also past); by implication the world; specifically (Jewish) a Messianic period (present or future): - age, course, eternal, (for) ever (-more), [n-]ever, (beginning of the, while the) world (began, without end). Compare G5550.

 

eternal is a "lesser" used definition. Everlasting = lasting ages

 

2) I already showed 3 of the 58 scriptures in the Bible where "for ever" referred to a period of time. Jonah 2:6 used it to mean 3 days. In Exodus 21:6 it meant however long a servant/slave will live. In 1 Sam 1:22 it meant however long Samuel lived. In Deu 23:3 it meant for 10 generations. 

 

To be fair, it is also used in reference to eternity, as everlasting is. My point is that they don't always mean eternal. "ever" can mean ages. When you see this deviation and compile it with multiple other scriptures you can see that hell is not eternal. The idea of eternal hell was created by "a" church in order to scare sinners into "salvation" so that they could collect money them. 

[donfish06]

Sinners are living in the presence of God, right now and they are separated from Him. Separation from God doesn't mean that one is not in God's presence.  It means that they are separated from His life.   It means that they are not made alive through the indwelling of the Holy Spirit.

 

 

Separation is not about not being in God's presence.  It is about God's presence not being within you.

 

Please show me where death is used to mean living forever? 

[Guest shiloh357]

 

Sinners are living in the presence of God, right now and they are separated from Him. Separation from God doesn't mean that one is not in God's presence.  It means that they are separated from His life.   It means that they are not made alive through the indwelling of the Holy Spirit.

 

 

Separation is not about not being in God's presence.  It is about God's presence not being within you.

 

Please show me where death is used to mean living forever? 

 

I can't show you that because I never made that argument.   How about you asking me to support an argument I actually made??? 

[Guest DRS81]

 

Sinners are living in the presence of God, right now and they are separated from Him. Separation from God doesn't mean that one is not in God's presence.  It means that they are separated from His life.   It means that they are not made alive through the indwelling of the Holy Spirit.

 

 

Separation is not about not being in God's presence.  It is about God's presence not being within you.

 

Please show me where death is used to mean living forever? 

 

 

Mark 9:48 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched. http://www.biblestudytools.com/commentaries/gills-exposition-of-the-bible/mark-9-48.html

This is repeated again, not only to assure the truth of the thing, but to raise the attention of the mind unto it, and fix an awful impression upon it: the Persic version renders it, "from whence thou shall never find redemption": there is no redemption from hell, as Origen and others have thought.

[Reformed Baptist]

 

 

Based on the majority view on this thread we may need to edit the bible a little bit. 

 

OLD:

Rom 6:23  For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. 

 

NEW:

Rom 6:23  For the wages of sin is eternal life in torment; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. 

 

I guess both the saved and the lost would have eternal life. 

 

Maybe, or maybe the definition of death (θάνατος) in Rom 6:23 needs to be understood. Death, in scripture, is never an end, that is an entirely pagan concept. No, rather death is always a separation, in spiritual death we are separated from God, in physical death we are separated from our bodies and in eternal death we are separated from the goodness and mercy of God forever. Life, therefore, as the opposite of death is about union, union of body and soul, union with God. Hence the contrast Paul makes in Rom 6:23 is entirely with the biblical teaching of eternal punishment.   

 

 

Man, death is the opposite of life. Again literary gymnastics because now you have to define death as being not the end. 

 

It is not literary gymnastics to take the time and effort to properly define words. It is evident from the word of God that death is an end, think for example of

 

Hebrews 9:27 And as it is appointed for men to die once, but after this the judgment,  (NKJ) Now if death was an end, how could there be anything after it? No, clearly death is not equal to extinction or ceasing to be. 

 

Or what about 2 Corinthians 5:8 We are confident, yes, well pleased rather to be absent from the body and to be present with the Lord. ( NKJ) here we see that death (physical) is a separation.

 

 

Again same question to you. John 3:16 uses the word Perish. How does your definition of death agree with the idea of what it means to Perish. Now you need to define what it means to Perish.

 

 

John 3:16 "For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. ( NKJ). All words have a semantic range, in English the term perish has two main meanings, it means to be either destroyed or ruined, think for example of rubber, rubber perishes by which we mean it is ruined and useless, not that it has ceased to exist. 

 

Now the Greek word that uses is ἀπόλλυμι and that has an even wider semantic range then the English translation, it can mean to be lost, that is especially true when it used in the middle voice as John uses it here. 

 

 

Also define what it means to destroy:

 

Mat 10:28  And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

 

 

As for Destroy, again the dictionary is our friend  - the primary meaning for destroy is also ruin. For example we talk of destroying someones reputation, and when we do we are not saying that they no longer have a good reputation. rather we are saying that the reputation is no longer good but bad. 

 

 

How can something that is living forever perish or be destroyed?

 

 

​I believe I have already addressed that sufficiently through a careful definition of the words we are using, definitions drawn straight out dictionaries and lexicons. 

[Guest DRS81]

Think of hell like a prison cell. Your life is over, but you're not dead yet.

[ProphecyKid]

 

 

 

Based on the majority view on this thread we may need to edit the bible a little bit. 

 

OLD:

Rom 6:23  For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. 

 

NEW:

Rom 6:23  For the wages of sin is eternal life in torment; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. 

 

I guess both the saved and the lost would have eternal life. 

 

Maybe, or maybe the definition of death (θάνατος) in Rom 6:23 needs to be understood. Death, in scripture, is never an end, that is an entirely pagan concept. No, rather death is always a separation, in spiritual death we are separated from God, in physical death we are separated from our bodies and in eternal death we are separated from the goodness and mercy of God forever. Life, therefore, as the opposite of death is about union, union of body and soul, union with God. Hence the contrast Paul makes in Rom 6:23 is entirely with the biblical teaching of eternal punishment.   

 

 

Man, death is the opposite of life. Again literary gymnastics because now you have to define death as being not the end. 

 

It is not literary gymnastics to take the time and effort to properly define words. It is evident from the word of God that death is an end, think for example of

 

Hebrews 9:27 And as it is appointed for men to die once, but after this the judgment,  (NKJ) Now if death was an end, how could there be anything after it? No, clearly death is not equal to extinction or ceasing to be. 

 

Or what about 2 Corinthians 5:8 We are confident, yes, well pleased rather to be absent from the body and to be present with the Lord. ( NKJ) here we see that death (physical) is a separation.

 

 

Again same question to you. John 3:16 uses the word Perish. How does your definition of death agree with the idea of what it means to Perish. Now you need to define what it means to Perish.

 

 

John 3:16 "For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. ( NKJ). All words have a semantic range, in English the term perish has two main meanings, it means to be either destroyed or ruined, think for example of rubber, rubber perishes by which we mean it is ruined and useless, not that it has ceased to exist. 

 

Now the Greek word that uses is ἀπόλλυμι and that has an even wider semantic range then the English translation, it can mean to be lost, that is especially true when it used in the middle voice as John uses it here. 

 

 

Also define what it means to destroy:

 

Mat 10:28  And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

 

 

As for Destroy, again the dictionary is our friend  - the primary meaning for destroy is also ruin. For example we talk of destroying someones reputation, and when we do we are not saying that they no longer have a good reputation. rather we are saying that the reputation is no longer good but bad. 

 

 

How can something that is living forever perish or be destroyed?

 

 

​I believe I have already addressed that sufficiently through a careful definition of the words we are using, definitions drawn straight out dictionaries and lexicons. 

 

Its a shame that all the plain words of the english language need to take on new meanings in order to support your view. Death doesn't mean the end, destroy doesn't mean to finish, perish doesn't mean to cease to exist. Well you can believe that if you want. 

 

Mal 4:1  For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the LORD of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch. 

 

Do you know what stubble is?

 

Mal 4:3  And ye shall tread down the wicked; for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet in the day that I shall do this, saith the LORD of hosts. 

 

Do you know how ashes are formed? 

Edited December 16, 2013 by ProphecyKid

[Reformed Baptist]

 

 

Maybe, or maybe the definition of death (θάνατος) in Rom 6:23 needs to be understood. Death, in scripture, is never an end, that is an entirely pagan concept. No, rather death is always a separation, in spiritual death we are separated from God, in physical death we are separated from our bodies and in eternal death we are separated from the goodness and mercy of God forever. Life, therefore, as the opposite of death is about union, union of body and soul, union with God. Hence the contrast Paul makes in Rom 6:23 is entirely with the biblical teaching of eternal punishment.   

 

Right. Death is separation from God, but Rev 14:10  "The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb: "

 

Obviously these people will not be separated from God, seeing as they will be in the presence of the Lamb. The only way to be separated from an omniscient God is to be annihilated

 

 

 

I am aware of Rev 14:10 which is why I was very specific about the what the eternal death (seperation) involves, I said:

in eternal death we are separated from the goodness and mercy of God forever.

[ProphecyKid]

Correct me if I am wrong but Jesus DIED on the cross and paid for our sins so that we wouldn't have to. He took out penalty for us, and that wasn't our physical natural death or the first death. If the penalty Jesus had to take on our behalf was death, meaning he had to die, he had to give up the ghost and not suffer torment for eternity, then how is it that those who will be lost and would have to then pay the penalty for their own sins would have to suffer for eternity, if Jesus did not have to do that to pay for our sins?

[Guest DRS81]

Correct me if I am wrong but Jesus DIED on the cross and paid for our sins so that we wouldn't have to. He took out penalty for us, and that wasn't our physical natural death or the first death. If the penalty Jesus had to take on our behalf was death, meaning he had to die, he had to give up the ghost and not suffer torment for eternity, then how is it that those who will be lost and would have to then pay the penalty for their own sins would have to suffer for eternity, if Jesus did not have to do that to pay for our sins?

 

Hell is the result of rebellion against God, separation.

When Lucifer fell from heaven, he created hell for himself.

People send themselves to hell by rebellion and unbelief.

Heaven is the opposite of hell....

Love/Hate, Peace/Confusion, Light/Darkness, etc etc..http://www.synonym.com/antonyms/