Biblical support of Eternal Hellfire?

[Guest shiloh357]

Correct me if I am wrong but Jesus DIED on the cross and paid for our sins so that we wouldn't have to. He took out penalty for us, and that wasn't our physical natural death or the first death. If the penalty Jesus had to take on our behalf was death, meaning he had to die, he had to give up the ghost and not suffer torment for eternity, then how is it that those who will be lost and would have to then pay the penalty for their own sins would have to suffer for eternity, if Jesus did not have to do that to pay for our sins?

 

The thing to remember is that Jesus didn't die spiriitually on our behalf.  Jesus paid for our sins on the cross and that was the end of Jesus' suffering.  Once the work of of the cross was completed, Jesus died fully paying our sin debt and fully satisfying God's justice.

 

Without that all of us would have to suffer for eternity separated from God.  Jesus' sinless, physical death was all that was required for us to have eternal life. So trying to use Jesus' death as an analogy doesn't really cover it. 

[Reformed Baptist]

Its a shame that all the plain words of the english language need to take on new meanings in order to support your view. Death doesn't mean the end, destroy doesn't mean to finish, perish doesn't mean to cease to exist. Well you can believe that if you want.

 

My friend, every definition of an English word I posted came from the Merriam Webster dictionary (11th edition) and I even supplied examples of how we use those words in those ways in common modern English phrases. So the ball is in your court to demonstrate from respectable dictionaries and Lexicons of the English Language that I am incorrect in what I have said, rather then simply dismiss it out of hand. I am sorry but bare unsubstantiated assumption does not make a convincing argument. 

 

And in regards to death not meaning end, well I have shown that from the word of God, tell me how death is end, when we have things to face after it, like a judgement for example. 

 

Let me also point out that the Bible speaks of destruction being everlasting, and not a one off event in a moment of time time,  2 Thessalonians 1:9 These shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power, (NKJ)

 

 

 

 

 

Mal 4:1  For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the LORD of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch. 

 

Do you know what stubble is?

 

Yes, and do know what remains after stubble has been burnt - there is ash left is there not. The stubble has not ceased to exist, but instead it is ruined! 

 

 

Mal 4:3  And ye shall tread down the wicked; for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet in the day that I shall do this, saith the LORD of hosts. 

 

Do you know how ashes are formed?

 

Yes, and the relevance is? 

 

Now, coming back to my original post that you have not properly addressed yet I wonder how one who seems to be denying the eternity of hell addresses such texts as:

 

  Matthew 25:46 "And these will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into eternal life." (NKJ)

 

Do you believe in an eternal heaven or not, for according to what Jesus Christ says here you can't heaven without also having hell. Further more If the punishment in Hell isn't everlasting, then the worm of the damned will die and the fire of the damned will burn itself out. This contradicts Mark 9:47,48. Therefore, the punishment in Hell is everlasting. Perhaps we should also notice, that if the judgement is not eternal, then Jesus was wrong when he said it would have been better if Judas had never been born, Mat 26:24. 

It seems that there are many more scriptures you need to bring to bear in regards of your thinking my friend

[Remnantrob]

I believe the eternal torment doctrine is a huge reason why we have a lot of atheist.  Atheist will not accept a loving God who seems to delight in sadism.  How can a pauper who steals bread and doesn't know Jesus have equal punishment to that of Hitler?  I think of Andrea Yates who was driven insane and killed her own children because of her own unrighteousness.  I've heard stories of christians becoming depressed over the thought that current family members are possibly being tortured in hell fire.  I would rather believe in eternal punishment vs. eternal punishing because I couldn't understand being happy in heaven while someone I love will be tormented forever.

[donfish06]

Reformed, 

 

That is a good point about ashes, but the fact is that ashes cannot again be burnt. Once something is ashes, there is no longer anything in them to burn

[Guest shiloh357]

I believe the eternal torment doctrine is a huge reason why we have a lot of atheist.  Atheist will not accept a loving God who seems to delight in sadism.  How can a pauper who steals bread and doesn't know Jesus have equal punishment to that of Hitler? 

 

1.  God is not a sadist.  Hell is not God's punishment.  Hell is the natural consequence of rejecting Jesus.  God doesn't send people to hell.  They elect to go there.

 

2.   The pauper and Hitler have one thing in common.  They don't know Jesus.  Hell is populated with good people who rejected Jesus.  Going to hell isn't based on good vs. bad.   God's standard of measurement is about good or bad you are.  God's standard is righteousness and that only comes by faith in Christ.  If you reject Jesus, regardless of how good you are, the consequence is the same as if you were serial killer that also rejected Jesus.

 

3.  Hitler didn't go to hell because of the Holocaust, bad as that was.  Hitler went to hell because he rejected Jesus.

 

I've heard stories of christians becoming depressed over the thought that current family members are possibly being tortured in hell fire.  I would rather believe in eternal punishment vs. eternal punishing because I couldn't understand being happy in heaven while someone I love will be tormented forever.

 

In heaven you would not even be aware that it is happening.   But the fact remains, that people make their own choices and if they are presented with the truth and reject it, they suffer as a result of their own choice, not because God delights in punishing people.

 

I guess it comes down to believing the Bible or not.  The Bible teaches eternal suffering and torment for those who chose continued separation from God.  They have only themselves to blame.

[GoldenEagle]

Where in the scriptures does one find support of the idea that one will burn for eternity?

 

What do we know about hell?

Hell – A place of weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Luke 13:18

There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when you see Abraham and Isaac and Jacob and all the prophets in the kingdom of God, and yourselves thrust out.

Hell – It will be a furnace of fire with wailing and gnashing of teeth.

Matt. 13:40-43

⁴⁰ Therefore as the tares are gathered and burned in the fire, so it will be at the end of this age. ⁴¹ The Son of Man will send out His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all things that offend, and those who practice lawlessness, ⁴² and will cast them into the furnace of fire. There will be wailing and gnashing of teeth. ⁴³ Then the righteous will shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears to hear, let him hear!

Hell – eternal fire, it's better to enter crippled or lame than to be there. (Matt. 18:8-9)

Matt. 18:8-9

⁸ And if your hand or your foot causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to enter life crippled or lame than with two hands or two feet to be thrown into the eternal fire. ⁹ And if your eye causes you to sin, tear it out and throw it away. It is better for you to enter life with one eye than with two eyes to be thrown into the hellof fire.

Hell – a place of darkness, weeping, and gnashing of teeth. (Matt. 22:11-13; Matt. 25:29-30)

Matt. 22:11-13

¹¹ “But when the king came in to see the guests, he saw a man there who did not have on a wedding garment. ¹² So he said to him, ‘Friend, how did you come in here without a wedding garment?’ And he was speechless. ¹³ Then the king said to the servants, ‘Bind him hand and foot, take him away, and^[a] cast him into outer darkness; there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.’

Matt. 25:29-30

²⁹ ‘For to everyone who has, more will be given, and he will have abundance; but from him who does not have, even what he has will be taken away. ³⁰ And cast the unprofitable servant into the outer darkness. There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.’

Hell - as opposed to everlasting life. (John 5:24)

John 5:24

Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life.

Hell - The punishment will be everlasting separation from the presence of God. (2 Thess. 1:9)

2 Thess. 1:9

These shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power…

Hell – a place where people will be burned with fire and brimstone.

Rev. 21:8

But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.”

Hell - Those who receive the Mark of the Beast (and reject Christ) will be tormented forever and will have no rest.

Rev. 14:11

And the smoke of their torment ascends forever and ever; and they have no rest day or night, who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name.”

Thoughts?

God bless,

GE

[GoldenEagle]

Also of interest to note... The phrase "forever and ever" is used both of describing God's eternal worth and the duration of eternal damnation.  The exact same Greek phrase is used in each of the verses in the below.

The phrase is as follows:

 

forever and ever
aionas ton aionon
"ages of the ages"

 

Eternal - without end

1 Tim. 1:17
Now to the King eternal, immortal, invisible, to God who alone is wise, be honor and glory forever and ever. Amen.

Rev. 5:13
And every creature which is in heaven and on the earth and under the earth and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, I heard saying: “Blessing and honor and glory and power Be to Him who sits on the throne, And to the Lamb, forever and ever!”
 

Eternal Damnation

Rev. 19:3
Again they said, “Alleluia! Her smoke rises up forever and ever!”

Rev. 20:10
The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone wherethe beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

The Greek phrase aionas ton aionon, which is translated "forever and ever," occurs 18 times in the Greek New Testament. In 17 of them, the phrase means without end and extending into infinity.

Also worth examining is... 
 

Rev. 14:11

And the smoke of their torment ascends forever and ever; and they have no rest day or night, who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name. 

 

This passage of Scripture teaches the smoke of their torment goes up forever, without end.

 

God bless,

GE

[Guest]

Absolutely nothing you just quoted supports eternal torment

 

~

 

 

Be Blessed Beloved

 

~

 

I guess both the saved and the lost would have eternal life. 

 

 

You

 

Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power. For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet. The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death. 1 Corinthians 15:24-26

 

Got

 

For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself; And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man. Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation. John 5:26-29

 

That

 

And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years. Revelation 20:4-6

 

Right

 

And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

 

And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

 

And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire. Revelation 20:10-15

 

See?

 

Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this? John 11:25-26

 

Love, Joe

 

[Remnantrob]

 

Correct me if I am wrong but Jesus DIED on the cross and paid for our sins so that we wouldn't have to. He took out penalty for us, and that wasn't our physical natural death or the first death. If the penalty Jesus had to take on our behalf was death, meaning he had to die, he had to give up the ghost and not suffer torment for eternity, then how is it that those who will be lost and would have to then pay the penalty for their own sins would have to suffer for eternity, if Jesus did not have to do that to pay for our sins?

 

The thing to remember is that Jesus didn't die spiriitually on our behalf.  Jesus paid for our sins on the cross and that was the end of Jesus' suffering.  Once the work of of the cross was completed, Jesus died fully paying our sin debt and fully satisfying God's justice.

 

Without that all of us would have to suffer for eternity separated from God.  Jesus' sinless, physical death was all that was required for us to have eternal life. So trying to use Jesus' death as an analogy doesn't really cover it. 

 

If this is true then I would have to assume that we're lost because the price needs to be paid...either by us or by him and if he didn't then I have no hope in eternal life. It just means Jesus got a discount on the wages of sin.

[Guest shiloh357]

 

 

Correct me if I am wrong but Jesus DIED on the cross and paid for our sins so that we wouldn't have to. He took out penalty for us, and that wasn't our physical natural death or the first death. If the penalty Jesus had to take on our behalf was death, meaning he had to die, he had to give up the ghost and not suffer torment for eternity, then how is it that those who will be lost and would have to then pay the penalty for their own sins would have to suffer for eternity, if Jesus did not have to do that to pay for our sins?

 

The thing to remember is that Jesus didn't die spiriitually on our behalf.  Jesus paid for our sins on the cross and that was the end of Jesus' suffering.  Once the work of of the cross was completed, Jesus died fully paying our sin debt and fully satisfying God's justice.

 

Without that all of us would have to suffer for eternity separated from God.  Jesus' sinless, physical death was all that was required for us to have eternal life. So trying to use Jesus' death as an analogy doesn't really cover it. 

 

If this is true then I would have to assume that we're lost because the price needs to be paid...either by us or by him and if he didn't then I have no hope in eternal life. It just means Jesus got a discount on the wages of sin.

 

For Jesus to die spiritually would mean that Jesus became a sinner.   Jesus didn't have to die spiritually to pay the price.  The price was paid in Jesus physical death and his shed blood as an offering for sin.   Jesus, had He died spiritually, would have ceased to be God.  Jesus could NOT have died spiritually and stil saved us from our sins.